Germany Photoreal?

[flyingpaul]

To come back to the question: As an Aerofly FS 2 user, I would really like Photoreal Germany, and would buy it immediately

[OOMA2]

Have complete Germany for P3dv4, happy with.

 

But want more fore AF2 realsceneries: Germany to Swiss (exist) to full Austria countries. It is mine hope.

Austria shall be a "plus" because I have orbx Lowi in AF2... And the flight is less between this airport and the scenery of Switzerland.

 

Thx for your way in advance

[JAK1]

On ‎05‎.‎01‎.‎2018 at 1:10 PM, Rodeo said:

"......."

I noticed only few German flight simmers here in this forum, but I assume the flight sim market in Germany is not a small one?

Perhaps this scenery will need some promotion in German forums, flight and flight sim magazines, even in German language.

 

"......."

Regards

Rodeo

 

 

 

 

 

Yes Rodeo that's exactly what I noticed!

JV posted this Topic at 31.Dec.2017 here. Normally such news will also be published in German forums and online flight simulation magazines at the same time.
But in this case it was not mentioned anywhere! I find that very remarkable!

I have the feeling that everything that is not shown and discussed in "Preview Screenshots and Videos forum" also receives little attention.

Should not it be in the interest of ORBX to have this topic discussed at least in the German-speaking forums?

It would be too bad that such an approach simply disappears from the agenda!

Maybe I am wrong and it appears after the holidays but something in the German forums on this Topic?

 

Regards, Jakob

[mickatmian]

Count me in For both P3d 4.1 and AFS2.

 

Mick

[John Venema]

If this happens at all it will be for AFS2, summer season only. 

 

Orbx is not going to head into the territory of huge country PR regions of 1TB or more in size, that's likely a step too far.

 

Netherlands is happening because it's a small land mass, so we can do seasons. PNW is probably the largest area we'd tackle for FSX/P3D.

 

Orbx will still be developing landclass-based regions, likely the rest of Alaska, New England Maritimes next, and also Australia V2.

[paddler]

24 minutes ago, John Venema said:

If this happens at all it will be for AFS2, summer season only. 

 

Orbx is not going to head into the territory of huge country PR regions of 1TB or more in size, that's likely a step too far.

 

Netherlands is happening because it's a small land mass, so we can do seasons. PNW is probably the largest area we'd tackle for FSX/P3D.

 

Orbx will still be developing landclass-based regions, likely the rest of Alaska, New England Maritimes next, and also Australia V2.

This puts a slightly different spin on the concept for me. I was afraid that Orbx was moving away from LC regions towards only FR.  As mentioned in my original post I will of course buy the FR PNW and compare it to the LC version I have flown for years. I have no doubt that I will buy the rest of Alaska, New England and Australia v2. I am an Orbx addict for sure.

[Sniper31]

47 minutes ago, John Venema said:

If this happens at all it will be for AFS2, summer season only. 

 

Orbx is not going to head into the territory of huge country PR regions of 1TB or more in size, that's likely a step too far.

 

Netherlands is happening because it's a small land mass, so we can do seasons. PNW is probably the largest area we'd tackle for FSX/P3D.

 

Orbx will still be developing landclass-based regions, likely the rest of Alaska, New England Maritimes next, and also Australia V2.

JV, thank you for clarifying those points, At least for me, you have answered my concerns and thereby alleviated all of them  Your remarks really make me an even more satisfied Orbx customer 

[gregmorin]

Thanks John!

 

I am defiantly in for Alaska, New England and Australia v2.

 

Greg

[yanlaoge]

22 hours ago, norfolk mike said:

 

Am I correct in thinking that EarthSimulations was in the process of developing the entire UK (in photoreal), with autogen? If it had been on par with their Islands then it would have been something to behold! I too have the playsims version, and as you know (and remarked upon), its fantastic in most areas, but a little inconsistent in others, so an updated version would be very welcome!

 

 

 

What excites me the most about the proposed Germany (and Netherlands) offering is the "new tech", which gives buildings their correct shape and proportions, rather than having a motley collection of standardized houses strewn over a photographic landscape without regard for size and scale. I'm not generally an autogen fan with regards to photoscenery. I keep my head in the cockpit until above 2000 ft agl, after which everything starts to look wonderfully three dimensional anyway, but the preview shots from the Netherlands project, as well as the Aerofly FS2 videos show that done well, the results are  mind-blowingly cohesive! I cant wait until I'm rich enough to fly in VR over autogened photoreal!.

 

I wonder if a lot of 'doubters' realise they are overflying photoreal areas probably on a daily basis within their OrbX lands already? Fly into Jackson Hole and there is miles of it! When OpenLC Europe was being previewed, we saw a couple of screenshots from Europe, and dozens from Mount Vesuvius . Guess which bit was photoreal? When the Samoan experience was released, there were a couple of complaints on the forum. Some of the islands were photorealistic, others made with landclass and vector data. Were the complaints due to not all of the islands being 'Landclass and Vectors"? Nope, it was the other way around of course .

 

OrbX'ers love photoreal, even if some of them don't know it yet . Build it and they will come!

 

The timing of Germany is perhaps a little unfortunate, but if the developers can do justice to highly populated and industrialised countries such as Germany and Holland, just think what they'll be able to achieve with the more scenic and mountainous regions! Methinks this new tech is here to stay, and will define the future of flightsimming, but of course, that's just a personal opinion from a longstanding photoreal fanatic .

 

 

 

 

Your mentioning of Earth Simulations brought tears in my eyes. I bought their Alderney Island photoreal scenery many years ago. It's just a very small island, but I think it's still the most beautiful scenery for any flight simulation so far. Excuse me for praising another developer in this forum, but they were out of business several years ago.

 

Well just after Earth Simulation closed down, I saw their last product. It's Scotland photoreal. It's 50cm photoreal scenery with exact placement of all the buildings and trees of Scotland. It's over a 100 GB, and perhaps costs over a $100, and I'd buy it for much more, but sadly I have nowhere to use my money. It's gone. It's not sold any more. Very limited lucky guys got it before the company was down, and sometimes I can see them discussing how to make it work under P3D.

 

I suggest you search for some videos of the scenery of Earth Simulation on Youtube, and you would understand why I believe photoreal scenery is the future. Now I really wish ORBX can revive a dream of mine that is lost.

[Christopher Low]

I really wish that I could contact Darren and Vicky, even if it was just to say thank you for the hard work and effort that they put into their outstanding products. Earth Simulations is greatly missed by the flightsim community

[norfolk mike]

1 hour ago, yanlaoge said:

Your mentioning of Earth Simulations brought tears in my eyes. I bought their Alderney Island photoreal scenery many years ago. It's just a very small island, but I think it's still the most beautiful scenery for any flight simulation so far. Excuse me for praising another developer in this forum, but they were out of business several years ago.

 

 

Yes, Alderney was my introduction to Earth Simulations too, although I was rather late to the party. I wasn't into photoreal scenery at that time, and hadn't even heard of Earth Simulations, but I saw it for sale at £1:00, and THAT got my attention. I quickly snapped up Guernsey for £5:00, but then they ceased trading and that was that! I seem to recall some talk on a forum at the time regarding a pending release for Jersey, but I don't  remember ever seeing it available for purchase? 

 

In fact I don't think I ever saw screenshots of their Scotland scenery? All this mention of an ES England (and now Scotland) is news to me, and I'd be interested in seeing some YouTube  footage of either/both!

 

I did get all three Playsim's Scotland sceneries for £5:00 each two or three years ago, so I haven't done too badly . The UK was a bit more expensive, but the rest of Europe is free, so I'd call that reasonable value! .

 

Luckily, I'm not even remotely concerned about seasonal change, so the possibility of a Photoreal Germany still excites me!

[Simson]

P3Dv4 version would be a no brainer for me. I'm from Germany and sure i would support this "mission to Mars"!

Do it, ORBX... be the first to make this step... may the storage be with you!

 

 

[KVSandleben]

I'm really not much of a fan of photoreal for the lack of proper seasons. And 120GB for just one season? So thrice as much for all of them? No, sir. I'm content with what I have.

[sun_king_135]

I'd take it, as nothing gets closer to reality is a photo scenery, and if it has seasons like CH Pro I can imagine it being awesome in the know FTX quality standards. 

 

Kind regards. 

[Jack Sawyer]

I’ll pass on photoreal regions if they won’t have seasons, I really enjoy Orbx’s five seasons.  Photoreal is basically a satellite photo?  Maybe I’m wrong?

 Thanks  

[schwarzfr]

Immediate buy for all platforms - please go for it!!!

[PatrickZZ]

I've got mixed feelings about this. Sure it would look stunning, but the cons outweigh the pros for me.

 

One con I haven't heard so far, but which I find definitely worth mentioning, is that if this project goes on it'll take up a whole lot of development capacity. Capacity that then can't be used for anything else. That would mean we'd get less airports, cityscapes, etc.

 

And then, summer textures only? No thanks, not for me. I've let Aerosoft/Flugwerk Austria Professional HD slip for the same reason. I mean, what if you're flying in winter and suddenly you're over Germany and everything looks green as in summer. Specially at the borders, that'll be ugly. This picture is going to show what I mean:

 

 

Allright, that's Austria instead of Germany but you get the idea. A sharp border between grey/white hard winter and green summer textures. Yuck!

 

Maybe if you make it an all-season product I might buy it some day (no promise). But with summer textures only? No way! That'll be less than freeware quality.

[PatrickZZ]

7 hours ago, John Venema said:

If this happens at all it will be for AFS2, summer season only.

 

Another reason not to buy it, I'm using P3D v4 and i'll stick to that. No AFS2 for me, never! If it would be for P3D v4 and it would have seasons, maybe. But under these conditions? No, no, no!

[PatrickZZ]

On 4-1-2018 at 10:01 PM, Christopher Low said:

What concerns me is that too many "no" posts might result in a massive wasted opportunity. If you have access to high quality imagery at a decent price, then I would (respectfully) suggest that the answer is a no brainer.

 

For me high quality means all seasons, otherwise it might be HD but it's still low quality. Summer only is a big reason to say no. Besides the decision to make it for AFS2 only is a bummer. All respect for the AFS2 users, but the majority of flight simmers (including me) still uses FSX/P3D. That's still the major market, AFS2 is a niche. Not many sales expected there.

[Nick Cooper]

That's three posts where you say the same thing.

I did ask that there would be no more of this.

If you have an opinion, one post is enough.

 

[Britjet]

120Gb is surely not a reasonable proposal? For one country?

Not for me, I’m afraid..

[olibarke]

I think as part of this or City Scapes range the approaches into LHR would prove very popular. It's an iconic approach over the city centre and to date isn't at all done any justice.

[levince]

Hi have browsed through the few pages here rather quickly and having not found any other similar response, I'll say this: we already have very good Germany north and south, even though not photoreal. Leave them alone for now.

 

The entire world needs ORBX coverage first! Focus on Africa, Asia and everything else that is missing, and once the world is covered by LC, then and only then, should you look into switching to photoreal improvements - and the associated enormous GB footprint - for any given area.

[pmb]

4 hours ago, norfolk mike said:

 

In fact I don't think I ever saw screenshots of their Scotland scenery? All this mention of an ES England (and now Scotland) is news to me, and I'd be interested in seeing some YouTube  footage of either/both!

 

They had a website (now gone) with masses of screenshots of Scotland, and these were among the very best sceneries I have seen until today. The concept just didn't work out economically, as mentioned above.

 

Kind regards, Michael 

[mburkhard]

Personally, I would only be interested in a photoreal country scenery IF all seasons are covered. Summer only is a no-go for me. So regarding your proposal I'd have to say no, I won't buy it.

 

And since a four-seasons country as big as Germany would require waaaay too much storage on the SSD, there is, at this time, the only other alternative for an all-seasons scenery: Landclass based. I still love your landclass products, all of them, OpenLC and FTX Regions and will continue to buy these. The way you do it at present, meaning landclass based with some local photo real coverage for special features, is perfectly fine for me.

[briansommers]

I will buy everything photoreal. But I do need all seasons.

[MatthiasKNU]

That would be fantastic, I have created already a few small photosceneries for my own, and now you‘re asking about a complete Photorealistic Germany....

 

I would buy it also in the Moment it comes out (for P3D)!

[Andi]

Hi John

 

I have GEN&GES and I like it.

BUT a high quality photoreal scenery of germany for P3D, with seasons, buildings, pois and trees would activate my credit card immediately. No matter how many gigs to download.

 

Happy and successful new year.

Andi

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dadtom65]

11 hours ago, Jack Sawyer said:

I’ll pass on photoreal regions if they won’t have seasons, I really enjoy Orbx’s five seasons.  Photoreal is basically a satellite photo?  Maybe I’m wrong?

 Thanks  

I’m the same Jack but the photoreal areas that seems they can produce these days are totally different to the old photo scenery. I will definitely be buying the Xplane scenery and the Orbx PNW and probably the others as well. Just hope I last long enough to see them all. He he.

[kaboki]

Bring it on for Xplane, would fit perfect with my denmark pro scenery and orthos, just hope you end the borders properly so i can join my own ortho tiles seamlessly with it. One season is ok for xplane, Austin talked about making winter with particle effects instead of using the old approach with winter textures in the future, until then i can live with one season. Multible seasons would just take up to much storage space.

[kevinfirth]

I would buy any quality PR country/region produced by Orbx or anyone else. The NL previews look pretty damned good.

 

My tuppence-worth, I'd prefer:

1. Seasons are good but not essential.  IIRC the Earth Sims scotland product had 3 seasons, summer, hard winter and 'others' as a conpromise between seasons and scenery size.

2. Most PR has to date been 1.2m pp resolution, to save HD space and VAS.  Earth Sims autogenesis came in versions down to 30cm pp across the whole area (!) which was why it was so large.  HD space is cheap these days so I wpuld simply buy more storage to fit the scenery size rather than limit the scenery size.  1.2m pp resolution doesnt cut the mustard for me for low level VFR w/o some blurriness.  60cm pp would be a decent quality compromise.

3. There is still some disparity in P3D4.1 between the way the sim handles LC and PR scenery.  The sim still only renders high LOD PR within a very small radius.  The contrast with the way higher res LC tiles can now be rendered is stark.  This has been pointed up to LM but I havent seen any indication they feel the inclination to address it.  Maybe they will if a major scenery producer requires it?

4. Its worth noting that Arno Gerretson who produced the Scenproc utility has now included in a private version the ability to automatically produce PR scenery as well as autogen, and also vector elements such as extrusion bridges.  The point being tools are available to automate much of the process, bespoke or otherwise, and so the development impact may be minimal.

5. Seems to me responses so far fall into 2categories (i) PR enthusiasts; and (ii) people happy with what they have.  I would hazard a guess that a chunk of those in cat (ii) havent ever experienced a true quality PR scenery, and that their opinions may be influenced by the imminent NL scenery.  A decision as to whether to do a PR Germany may be better to be deferred until people have been able to fly NL?

[kevinfirth]

I'd also love Orbx to do a UK PR scenery. I'm aware another sim publisher has licence arrangements for access to updated aerial imagery for the UK, but doesnt currently I think have any capacity to develop the actual scenery itself.

 I think that priced right, there's a definite market for an updated UK photoscenery though.. Lets hope someone has the guts to tackle it

[Michael V]

Hello to all,

 

my name is Michael, I'm 46 years old, a long year and true ORBX fan and a thus far quiet member of this great forum. I live with my family in the german Ore Mountains (Erzgebirge) and I'm a flight sim and also real life GA pilot.

 

We all know, ORBX has huge merits in making the flight sim look very more real with its fantastic regions and airports. The AU Blue brought me to ORBX and my first ORBX Airport YCNK Cessnock made me to an ORBX addict.

 

I loved to fly in the ORBX regions, first of all the magnificient NA Pacific Northwest. But since a longer time I find myself flying 90% of time in photoreal areas, expecially the gorgeous extended airport sceneries of Jarrad Marshall as for instance Jackson hole, Telluride or Innsbruck of course.

 

Although the landclass technology, especially trough the magical hands of the ORBX team, has made the sim look very attractive, I believe that the future of flight sim is the PR tech. LC has a lot of shortcomings that disturbs my immersion again and again. Not only the vector lines cutting regardles trough all, also hard and illogical texture transitions or blunt railway station areas. ORBX has great work investested to make these things better, with much success, but the problem is in the LC technology itself and cannot be repaired really.

 

Therefore I was overjoyed to read the ORBX announcements of PR Netherlands, PNW and now Germany. The published pictures show how great these sceneries will be. And we all know: ORBX is a synonymous for quality!

 

Better is the enemy of good. Please bring Germany Photoreal! For me without any doubt a day one purchase.

 

Best regards,

Michael

 

[Peter765]

I will not buy, mainly because I am assuming that the price is going to be much higher than a region.

 

In case ORBX is interested in why.

My sweet spot is a region in the sale. Criteria I look for when buying scenery is:

• Ability to use VFR charts for flight planning. Planning a flight is half the fun for me. The other half being able to fly as planned.
• Some sense of reality in the environment, but certainly not at a level of photoreal scenery. More than 80% of my flying time (real life and simulator) is above areas I have no detailed knowledge off. Even some level of repetition is not so much an issue; in real life flying, a lot of areas start to look the same from 2000 ft when using a VFR chart for navigation.
• Summer/winter (2 seasons minimum) as I find the experience to navigate above snow covered land quite different.

Photo based scenery would also tick those boxes but I would not want to spend more money (software/hardware) than what is currently offered by the ORBX regions and which I find excellent value for money. Personally I would prefer an (even) wider choice of regions, possibly enhanced with more photo scenery if it can keep the price in the same ball park.

[MarkB356]

Hi, as long as it is an optional extra then go right ahead.  I won't use it myself however, too big a file size and too limiting when it comes to seasonal variation.  Photoreal looks great in certain locations, especially mountainous or hilly terrain in summer, but I really don't like it at all in airport scenery.  I've taxied over too many flat cessnas and seen too many flat cars in car parks!

 

Extremely happy though to see the comment about Alaska and New England, those are practically Christmas presents!  Thanks for the update John, happy new year.  Mark

[BrettT]

Really looking forward to the remainder of Alaska, New England and of course V2 of Australia (it will be wonderful to see what these guys can do with the tools and technology that they have developed since the original)

[SparrowWing]

Hi, as a german person and Aerofly FS2 pilot I'm looking forward to a german scenery. I hope Orbx will decide to create and sell such product. That would be very great.

 

I think flying in Germany is very nice for the most pilots, because Germany has many different land classes: sea, flat land, mountains, small islands, rivers, lakes, small and big cities, many small and big airports, woods, grainfields, highways, railways, industry, towers, antenna, castles, hospital with helicopters landing field and so on. It would be great addition to the Switzerland scenery.

 

Thank you for all other good sceneries like Innsbruck.

[Bronco]

Hey John,

 

I would love to see the entire globe in photoreal, however, if 120GB are required to cover Germany alone, my calculations suggest you would require ~50 PB (petabytes) of storage to cover  the landmass of the globe.  If Orbx is intending on exploring photoreal perhaps you could look at a hybrid approach where LC is used in more remote areas and photoreal is used sparingly and strategically where it provides the greatest benefit.  That assumes of course that technically mixing LC and photoreal is possible and the two can be blended in such a way that isn't too visually jarring.

[Nick Cooper]

1 hour ago, Bronco said:

That assumes of course that technically mixing LC and photoreal is possible and the two can be blended in such a way that isn't too visually jarring.

 

Hello,

welcome to the forums.

Presumably, you don't yet own any FTX products?

 

[lixfeldt]

Wow...this is a no brainer for me. The closer we get with photoreal is a plus. JV you develop it, with maybe the option to enable or disable the enhancement, I'm all over it. Its a choice that I would love to have...buy it or not

 

bring on the samples