"Fake Airplane" enthusiasts

[Kilstorm]

This is how the author of this article refers to simmers. He also refers to FlightSim Con as a “fake airplane” convention in Hartford, Connecticut. I personally like to refer to myself as an aviation enthusiasts. Just something about this part of the article really irked me.

https://www.flyingmag.com/horizon-air-joyride-still-resonates?dom=currents&src=syn

[Buffy Foster]

Wow; another "journalist" dripping with contempt for regular people.  He even manages to sneer at GA pilots.   >:(

 

 

 

 

[caleb1]

That's funny.  Most of the time that is not true.  We are aviation enthusiasts, and most of us would be real pilots if time/money permitted.

[lawrence aldrich]

So?????

What's his point?   Everybody gets a pilot's license?

If you don't have a pilot's license,  don't steal an aircraft?

Maybe he just is having trouble getting things he writes  published......which is understandable.

[Nick Cooper]

Hello,

I don't find this in the least bit irksome.

He does put forward some propositions that are at least debatable but his point is very simple but would probably not

have prevented the events that the article concerns, given that it is not possible to prevent the unpredictable.

 

The type of Flight Simulation that we engage in of course involves a necessary suspension of disbelief to

really appreciate the "immersion factor" so often referred to but it is not "real" and the presently apparently very

popular expression in one country at least, "fake" does not mean anything very different to "pretend" or "virtual"

or even "simulated" unless used in a specific context which is not present in this article.

 

 

 

 

[Ben77]

I can see what you mean Kilstorm,

 

The article as a whole seems to be rather muddled and he clearly has some issue with flight simmers describing us as "fake-airplane enthusiasts". And who exactly was his "advice" at the end directed to?

 

The Horizon Air event was a tragic incident that effected many of us and hopefully some constructive lessons will be learned and acted upon.

 

 

[Jon Clarke]

fake

forgery, counterfeit, copy, sham, fraud, hoax, imitation, mock-up, dummy, reproduction, lookalike, likeness.

 

 

 

[Fizzelle]

No I don't have an issue with the article. For sure it's written with a certain demographic in mind for what I suspect is attention grabbing.

 

Others have written similar articles following video games from Wolfenstein and Doom right through to GTA V and PUBG today.

 

And yes, every single time I fly for real I secretly hope someone will come and ask if I could take over as the crew is incapacitated! That's my fantasy and it'll never happen but I am entitled to dream. I don't care if I'm considered a "fake" pilot or not. The language doesn't spoil it for me - sticks and stones etc.

 

We carry on in our lives in our own way. The journalist writes articles in such a way that he gets paid and I dream to free my mind after 46+ years of hard work. Each to their own, as they say, and ne'er the twain shall meet!

[gsand]

Good post Fizzelle. My two cents and IMHO...

 

I'm a 25+ year flight simmer, have a handful of real time over the years but have never had the time/dollars to do any serious flight training. Flight simming has allowed me to advance my dream of flying and to hold on to the hope that some day, maybe, I can take to the skies for real. I also have the secret fantasy that a lot of us have about saving the day. But, it's just a fantasy. "Flying" a 737 in P3D is, I'm sure, so far removed from the real thing that it will remain a fantasy.

 

I've also been a Flying subscriber since the mid-1970's and can tell you that this is not the first time this issue has been discussed by Flying contributors. I have always considered Les Abend a stand up guy and I have enjoyed his column in the past and will continue to do so. I know what I am so his words don't bother me at all. He's not writing his column with me in mind anyway so how ever he wants to label simmers doesn't matter to me. He knows nothing about why I do what I do with P3D. So, go ahead real Flying folks and label me however you like, it just doesn't matter.

 

However, having said all that, I have long wondered why, in this digital world of ours, with the abundance of digital keys for everything there is not a simple secure activation code for the FMS to "activate" the engine start sequence? We as "fake" flyers can't start anything without a secure key to enable the software. I would think it would not be terribly difficult to add this to every FMS with the activation code added to the dispatch paperwork sent to every flight crew gate side just before flight. Or, send it through ACARS after the ship is awake. Point is, many ways to accomplish this and it would insure that only properly recognized flight deck qualified personnel can perform engine starts.

[Fizzelle]

8 minutes ago, gsand said:

I would think it would not be terribly difficult to add this to every FMS with the activation code added to the dispatch paperwork sent to every flight crew gate side just before flight. Or, send it through ACARS after the ship is awake.

 

Puzzling isn't it?

 

Very well made points, if I may say so.

[Scott Harmes]

6 hours ago, jjaycee1 said:

fake

forgery, counterfeit, copy, sham, fraud, hoax, imitation, mock-up, dummy, reproduction, lookalike, likeness.

 

 

 

 

 

I suspect this is why the article hits a nerve with some people.  Quite a few of the words in the meaning have a negative connotation in certain contexts.  It would not have been hard for the author to use another word apart from fake.  Maybe the obvious one....simulation?

 

I personally don't have a huge issue with the article.  I think I understand the point the author was trying to get across, but his choice of words was poor in several instances.

[John Hargreaves]

I really like aeroplanes - fake ones, real ones, they are all good. Maybe the guy who wrote the article doesn't feel that way. Maybe he doesn't like planes at all. I like helicopters better though if I'm honest.

[FalconAF]

What irks me about the article is the hypocrisy in it.

 

Hypocrisy:  "...the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform..."

 

The author makes statements in the article such as:

 

1.  "After almost four decades as an airline pilot, I’m left shaking my head. Why would this seemingly under-the-radar (pun not intended), likable 29-year-old make a decision that jeopardized lives on the ground, ultimately ending in his untimely demise?"

 

2.  "...all airline employees are vetted through the application process. Items such as background checks, criminal history, work experience and so forth are involved. Safety and security being the primary goals..."

 

3.  "OK, so how did Russell manage to start, taxi and take off such a sophisticated piece of machinery — at a major international airport, no less? Most likely, it was a combination of both above-average familiarity with the airplane and, yes, a desktop simulator."

 

The author implies that someone who has been "vetted" as an airline employee (and even just a "real world pilot") is somehow LESS of a danger to themselves and the community at large.  They ALL would be "more trustworthy" than a "computer pilot" who has access to a real world airplane.

 

Yet we all know of the real world airline pilots who WERE vetted, trained, and examined for "mental disabilities" and "lack of good judgement" that would have disqualified them...but if they passed, were then "trusted"...yet were later discovered to be acting as Pilot In Command of aircraft while legally DUI or DWI.  

 

Just being "vetted" doesn't mean a person isn't going to do stupid, inhumane, incredibly dangerous stuff.  I've been BOTH a real world pilot for 45 years, AND a "desktop computer pilot" for 35 years.  And it is I who choose...in BOTH cases...whether to "drink and fly" or do other illegal, totally stupid things.

 

The author's implication that a "desktop computer pilot" is "more dangerous" and/or "less trustworthy" than a real world pilot is totally absurd and reeks of hypocrisy.  BOTH individuals...in SOME cases...may EVENTUALLY do stupid, insane things.  Quit labeling an entire group of people ("desktop computer pilots") as the real problem, when it isn't.  There is already enough prejudice, stereotyping, and discrimination in the world without articles like these.  Even IF the person in the article HAD been "vetted" the way the author describes "real pilots are", there is no guarantee that he STILL wouldn't have done what he did.

 

[Ripcord]

 

I get it now.  He was a real airline pilot for almost 40 years... so this is his chance to elevate himself by criticizing others.  

 

I wonder, do pro ball players make statements like this about the millions of fans that play sports games on Xbox or PS or whatever video console?  Doubt it -- because it is obvious that only a small percent of the population aspires to be more than just a fan or enthusiast.

 

 

[FalconAF]

3 hours ago, Ripcord said:

-- because it is obvious that only a small percent of the population...

 

+1

 

That's what makes the article absurd.  It doesn't matter what "kind" of group of people you choose.  If the group become large enough in number, you WILL have some screwballs in it who WILL eventually do things that leave someone like the author "shaking my head" in wonder about why a SINGLE individual did something so far outside the box compared to someone the author considers "normal".  Basic human nature.  The more people in the group, the more likely one (or more) of them are gonna be "abnormal" compared to the rest of the "normal" population of the group.

 

And, as one of my favorite comedians says, sometimes "You Can't Fix Stupid".

[wblackret]

It’s just an article from a professional pilot engaging in fake journalism. Fact is everybody has an opinion about everything, even if they don’t have a clue what they’re talking about. His best point, “start locking things.” Like most people do to make it more difficult to gain entry where one doesn’t belong..........but then there are some that would just break in anyway. Vicious cycle!

 

( What about those individuals that sit at a computer and fly armed drones? If he’s right, now there’s an accident waiting to happen. )

[Benny]

Did any of you had friend or family try your simulator for the first time? All my relative failed big time even trying to taxi a 172 and even with some help, of course they all tough that the yoke would make the plane turn on the ground and not the pedal.

Like he said: "Is there anyone that can fly a plane" (for whatever reason pilots would be incapacitated ), I would ratter see a flight simmer then anybody else take the control

 

When I did my PPL solo (a long time ago), it was on a 152, my instructor was a big guy at 230 pounds, and the certified instructor that gave me the OK was about the same weight, the 152 with me alone was feeling way more agile-light and took off before i even pulled on the yoke (trim wheel was a bit up).. So imagine an empty Q400 that is designed to carry a lot of folks, it become and agile and powerful plane.

 

His mentality (that I don't really like) could be seen here also by some of us that fly for real... 

 

I'm 52 now and I only fly a few time a year, just for fun. Trust me the simulator help A LOT.  Any of you here, on a calm day, that have no real flying experience would take off, fly, and land pretty quickly in a real 172.

 

You have all that 3D "perception", on top GPS exist now , navigation is so easy compare to when I started...

 

My 2 cent on this one

Ben

[Gollum]

Hi Any body who uses a computer is involved in "Fakes"  if you use `Word` your not creating a real document  you need another piece of equipment to make it real .  Everything created on a computer isn't real until you do something additional to make it real .  So perhaps if you use a Flight Simulator and then go on to become a pilot your just using the tools technology gives you.   We all know that F.S. isn't real, nobody believes it is, but it gives you a safe experience that might increase you knowledge .   

 

Regards  

 

[david broome]

Given the amount of computer technology and automation in modern day airliners I think the lines are slowly being blurred.

I think most people would recognise a deliberately condescending  tone when the term "fake" is used to describe simulated, in the same way one would recognise using the term fraud to describe honest imitation is deliberately derogatory.

The key here is that the guy is a professional writer and the written word is carefully considered to accurately project the intent of the article so that the context cannot be misconstrued.

Unlike the spoken word there is time for a considered approach and even hindsight and correction to ensure clarity.

 

Are we being oversensitive? 

Absolutely!

But I think this goes to the heart of what people are experiencing in their everyday lives with corporate media. Regardless of our political slant the "News" is no longer presented as events from a neutral perspective (Yes this has always been the case to a lesser degree but it has now reached Orwellian levels of deceit)

All we get now are agenda driven opinion pieces disseminated as fact, recycled and regurgitated 24/7 as a form of theatre and worse still this is an entirely passive experience as we are told what to think (or indeed not to think) and when we should think it.

 

I feel better for that. 

 

[wolfko]

Actually, I like being called a fake pilot.

[Doug Sawatzky]

I remember many years ago as an airline employee (still am), I was doing a jump seat ride in a new A320 from CYYC to CYVR. During the flight I spoke up and asked the guy's if they ever did stall recovery training in the full motion simulator for that particular aircraft, I wasn't asking out of concern but more of just a curiosity and thought how cool that would be to experience....the captain turned and looked over his right shoulder at me with an angry look and tone and shot back "we don't stall airplanes anymore!!"

[Benny]

On 11/14/2018 at 7:31 PM, Doug Sawatzky said:

the captain turned and looked over his right shoulder at me with an angry look and tone and shot back "we don't stall airplanes anymore!!"

 

Ha ha ha, interesting. IO mean it's even hard to stall a 152. You really have to over pull... the stall buzzer will ring for even a wile. And a perfect landing is when you stall a bit the airplane.

[Mickel]

Yet, from time to time, liners get lost to stalls that a low time student would probably recognise as such for the simple fact they do stall airplanes.

 

He talks about security risks.  Yet there have been a couple of instances in the last ten years or so when one of the pilots has intentionally flown a loaded bus into terrain.  So the guy obviously messed about on flight sims.  I would suggest that any simmer who could start a Dash 8 based solely on sim knowledge also knows how to drive the auto-pilot in same.  The unfortunate chap in question said that he did not.