announcement Effective immediately - restrictions on downloads of FSS transferred licenses

[paulrunge]

30 minutes ago, John Venema said:

Welcome to our forums. We're not representatives of Samsung and you're trolling. Do it again and you'll cop a ban.

I think he meant you should kneel before your customers and beg forgiveness just like Samsung has done in the past.  Can't WAIT to see that happening!!

[Benny]

It says HOT topic! It's the first time I see a HOT topic here

 

Some of you guys should go breed some fresh air outside. It's just a game.

 

This is a big change for the guys so why not just relax a bit. I'm sure they have been working hard as hell so...

 

Go fly some Flytampa or Aerosoft location for a few days (Sorry John I had to, ha ha)

 

Seriously, I so understand this restriction.

 

Good luck to the team

Ben

[bladerunner900]

I can't say I am surprised by this situation. People want their working backups. Especially after just rendering all their FSS backups useless by transferring their accounts.

[John Venema]

Quote

But I deleted the old installers because the licences were transferred and I thought the files were useless now 

Or can we re-download at the flightsimstore?

 

Not yet, we've asked Adrian to allow the old installers to be validated again, so it's up to him. It costs FSS and Orbx nothing to do so so the only issue could be if there is a technical reason to do with validating a license that has already been transferred off the FSS database.

[Michael Copp]

17 minutes ago, John Venema said:

Shit! 

 

 

Kind of sums up the situation you guys are in right now, I guess...

 

Look, I was just suggesting a state of mind that some of the customers might have at this point if you offer them the option of paying for a service (ie. unlimited downloads) that they had for free a few weeks ago. I'm not saying it's a bad idea at all (I think the "bonus" of something like a small Premium airport only for premium customers or similar is a great idea, and I wasn't kidding when I said that I'd probably go for it). But, you'd have a much easier time selling that idea to everyone if you'd have come up with it before all of this, rather than thirty minutes ago, after you put in unexpected download restrictions. And yes, hindsight's 20/20 and all that - I don't envy your position at this time.

 

 

[Rimshot]

1 hour ago, John Venema said:

 

Deal with it Bert, you're a big boy. A dutchman calling another dutchman arrogant, that's priceless

 

Why are you even posting in this topic?  Do you have anything constructive to add or are you trolling?

 

True, I'm a big boy. I just do not agree with your way of communication. I'm dealing with that quite well to be honest, but I had an urge to share my opninion anyway. By the way, as a Dutchman I do not consider myself arrogant and not all Dutch folks are arrogant

[Doc_Z]

John, 

 

I think the panic is getting worse!  I don't understand the need for immediate backups of already installed and working addons.  Yes, there is a chance your computer may crash, but that is really a very small chance.  Wait a few days until the restriction is lifted or just use a one-a-day backup plan.

 

Of course, the problem is, as it almost always is, that people do not read the posts or use the tutorials.

 

Keep you chin up!

[Doc_Z]

John, 

 

I think the panic is getting worse!  I don't understand the need for immediate backups of already installed and working addons.  Yes, there is a chance your computer may crash, but that is really a very small chance.  Wait a few days until the restriction is lifted or just use a one-a-day backup plan.

 

Of course, the problem is, as it almost always is, that people do not read the posts or use the tutorials.

 

Keep you chin up!

[Jack Sawyer]

32 minutes ago, John Venema said:

Correct, there are 57,000 customers to go. There is no short term solution, and we certainly aren't going to fund A$2million worth of bandwidth so people can have backups of what they have installed.

 

Charging an "OrbxDirect Premium" fee of 30 bucks a year is beginning to make a lot of sense. You get no caps, all you can eat downloads  and we might throw in some extra goodies for the price. I can see a solution forming here....

Define goodies.  I'm all for it but if you didn't buy the premium service could you still buy the "goodies?"

 

 

[John Venema]

2 minutes ago, bladerunner900 said:

I can't say I am surprised by this situation. People want their working backups. Especially after just rendering all their FSS backups useless by transferring their accounts.

 

I admit it. I messed up. I should have kept the old FSS installers active. My bad, shit happens.

 

We're trying to fix my mistake, hopefully we can have a solution soon that is beginning to look like:

 

A. Allow your old FSS installers to be activated online as they used to be before licenses were transferred

B. Transferring your FSS licenses to OrbxDirect does not impact your old installers

C. Charge an annual A$30 fee for an all-you-can-eat unlimited download OrbxDirect account

[paulrunge]

Okay.  I can see another 57,000 will need to vent on this, but I am unsubscribing from this thread.  Fix the problem as best you can - I have faith in Orbx!

 

As for me?  I'm okay for paying what I need to to get what I want.

1.  Charge a reasonable annual fee for the speedy (er) access.  Try not to make it a profit center John as we have all already paid etc?

2.  Love the idea of full regions in one go for a price.  Initial price could be bench marked to how much you already own/paid for?  Makes the whole process much easier for all

 

Looking forward to what comes next!!

[FreeBird]

Why cant everyone settle down. JV said its only temporary. I haven't bothered to make backups yet. When I do a re install I don't load everything. ORBX is a small company and if we want it to survive give them a chance. We all make mistakes and we fix them and move on but to sit here and complain isn't going to get you anywhere. JV is JV so get use to it. In the end it will all work out so be patient. Josh

[Sante Sottile]

I have not transferred my stuff over from the FSS yet. I am planning on installing all my Orbx products soon enough. I tend to do a couple re-images of my machine each year. This keeps the system healthy and running great. 

 

Now, If I move my products over to the new OrbxDirect, would I have to wait 14+ days since I can only download and install 1 product per day? If that's the case, then I can easily keep a backup on my external hard drive. (Which I currently do). Then, does OrbxDirect apply the appropriate updates to each product just as the old FTX Central V2 did? I just want to ensure my products are always up to date. I think that's one of the main reasons why there are so many people (re-downloading), since it will always be the most up to date version.

 

I just don't see the point of transferring products to OrbxDirect then. If you are telling customers to use their backups and update, whats the difference between that and the FSS way? If you no longer sell products on the FSS, then I wouldn't restrict your customers from wanting to download their products. If I were to purchase 3 or 4 products at once, would I only be able to download 1 per day? I understand the cost associated with bandwidth use but, there must be a better way. (Even if backups are used). 

 

Thank you,

 

 

[olli4740]

And another suggestion:

 

How about advising people to buy an external drive and to back up their installations, rather than throwing additional downloads/installers/executables onto the very same internal drive?

[Triplane]

2 hours ago, addman said:

 

Please delete. I thought better of it.....

 

 

[jmorvay1971]

8 minutes ago, olli4740 said:

How about torrents? Too many people opposing it?

Aren't Torrents the reason why ORBX has instituted so much security and FTXC3? lol

 

I think John may be on the right track to offer a premium type service, purely voluntary for the consumer, BUT they would need to understand that a "standard" account, or paid download would require slower speeds or limited downloads (like what is happening right now).  I might be on track to subscribe to that type of service, but that too would involve a lot of trust that ORBX delivers on the commitment based on the service provided to the paying customer....just thought, that's all.  John asked, so there's my contribution.

 

[Frankie_2]

5 minutes ago, John Venema said:

Allow your old FSS installers to be activated online as they used to be before licenses were transferred

This leads me to the question whether the required data (order number, date and serial) will show up again in the FSS-Account as I suppose the data has been deleted?

[olli4740]

13 minutes ago, John Venema said:

 

Not yet, we've asked Adrian to allow the old installers to be validated again, so it's up to him. It costs FSS and Orbx nothing to do so (...)

 

 

Mind that this could now cause a "redownload frenzy" for Adrian instead, as so and so many people, who have deleted their FSS wrappers, will start to gather them all again. (Wrappers are still available/will be available for download again, is that correct?)

[Matthew Webb]

This restriction seems reasonable to me and hits the mark on my usage of the scenery.

[John Venema]

3 minutes ago, Helifan123 said:

This leads me to the question whether the required data (order number, date and serial) will show up again in the FSS-Account as I suppose the data has been deleted?

 

Yes it's a valid question and we'll have to sort it out with Adrian tomorrow (they are asleep in Australia right now)

 

8 minutes ago, olli4740 said:

And another suggestion:

 

How about advising people to buy an external drive and to back up their installations, rather than throwing additional downloads/installers/executables onto the very same internal drive?

 

Indeed, that is how I migrate sims myself. I had to move my P3D installation from C: to D: drive last week so I just coped my entire ORBX folder and re-ran FTX Central, then re-install FTX Global. Job done. Took me a few minutes.  The same applies rebuilding a PC. Why people don't backup their whole ORBX folder on an external HD I'll never know <shrug>

[dominique]

47 minutes ago, John Venema said:

Should I poll the $30 Orbx Premium idea?

 

Since you asked, one doesn't take such a decision on public polls and certainly not taken during a PR disaster and bad psychodrama that we see unfolding now.

 

I am no "archivist" as my OD record can show and except if you bring to the table a lot of goodies to sweeten the Premium pill, I think the idea stinks if it is to allow complete access to the files we bought during a major reinstall.

 

Temporary quotas are not a bad idea You obviously   had to. But there are ways to say disagreeable things...You recruit a lot of talented young persons, a PR might be of some use ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[neucoas]

Are you guys hoarders? What is the need to download 130 products on a week? 

I have to agree with JV. If i was my company, I'd have done the same thing.

Now, i think that the restriction shouln't apply for Global base packages and regions. Maybe a good approach would be being able to download global + Vector + ONE OpenLC region or 3 regions per day.

 

[gregmorin]

1 hour ago, John Venema said:

We can work through this issue together. Perhaps we need to establish a ticket system for people who are doing system rebuilds or complete reinstalls can provide us some proof of their system state so we can lift the download cap for those in crisis without Orbx addons installed. I would imagine that is the vast minority of you.

 

 

I think this is the most sensible method of moving forward. I have a 2TB HDD storage drive in my system to back up all my flight simulator installers. But the reality is that I only need these back up installers if I am doing a total rebuild of my system. If I was going to purposely rebuild PD3V3, I would copy all my ORBX installed products to my back up hard drive. Since my registry and FTX 3 already have the products licensed and installed. I would simply copy the Orbx products back to the simulator and run FTX 3, which, I believe, would generate a new scenery cfg. 

 

If I had an operating system change that requires re installing to the registry or a total hard drive failure, I think contacting Orbx through a ticket system is a viable solution. Back up hard drives are nice but they are not fool proof. I have had 2 back up drives simply fail in the last three years. Locally backed up downloads are not without risk.

 

My 2 cents.

 

Greg

[banjoman1960]

i have also delite all the useless FSS installers,and i do not want to download all again,the FSS gets the traffic.......

i will try to make a backup of the working sim,and all files i need.

maybee you can give a manual to do this,and no one need to download again........

 

 

[John Venema]

11 minutes ago, Tino said:

I have not transferred my stuff over from the FSS yet. I am planning on installing all my Orbx products soon enough. I tend to do a couple re-images of my machine each year. This keeps the system healthy and running great. 

 

In that case, backup your entire ORBX folder before you re-image. Simple. Instant Orbx re-install with just a directory copy. You just need to re-install FTX Global because it replaces system default textures. Everything else FTX Central V3 takes care of.

 

Quote

I just don't see the point of transferring products to OrbxDirect then. If you are telling customers to use their backups and update, whats the difference between that and the FSS way? If you no longer sell products on the FSS, then I wouldn't restrict your customers from wanting to download their products. If I were to purchase 3 or 4 products at once, would I only be able to download 1 per day? I understand the cost associated with bandwidth use but, there must be a better way. (Even if backups are used). 

 

You did not read my OP closely enough. There are NO download restrictions or caps on new purchases made from OrbxDirect from November 1st.

[neucoas]

16 minutes ago, jmorvay1971 said:

Aren't Torrents the reason why ORBX has instituted so much security and FTXC3? lol

 

I think John may be on the right track to offer a premium type service, purely voluntary for the consumer, BUT they would need to understand that a "standard" account, or paid download would require slower speeds or limited downloads (like what is happening right now).  I might be on track to subscribe to that type of service, but that too would involve a lot of trust that ORBX delivers on the commitment based on the service provided to the paying customer....just thought, that's all.  John asked, so there's my contribution.

 

Torrents is one thing. Piracy is another. Torrents =/= piracy.

 

Maybe the "manual download" offered could be done with torrents.

[fueliehead]

28 minutes ago, BG2518 said:

 

Up the prices all round to accommodate the users download desires be they right or wrong is another solution.

 

Tough love.

I would have no problem with upping prices across the board for new purchases.  For the products that I currently own, part of selling ORBXDirect and FTX Central was the promise that you would be entitled to unlimited downloads and that the download speeds would be sufficient.  There were several threads before ORBXDirect and FTX Central with users concerned about backups and download capacity, we were assured this would not be an issue.  Personally, I understand the dilemma, I don't use the backups in this manner (although I may start).  But, it seems ORBX ignored or overlooked this "need" by several customers to backup.  Maybe limit backup downloads but not installs?  I've followed all the instructions and am trying to do it the ORBX way, I'm not sure why I have to suffer, or pay more for doing so. 

 

JV's tone does not help matters at all.

 

hank

[neucoas]

3 minutes ago, John Venema said:

 

In that case, backup your entire ORBX folder before you re-image. Simple. Instant Orbx re-install with just a directory copy. You just need to re-install FTX Global because it replaces system default textures. Everything else FTX Central V3 takes care of.

Even Airport elevation corrections on Scenery/World/Scenery?

[John Venema]

5 minutes ago, gregmorin said:

 

I think this is the most sensible method of moving forward. I have a 2TB HDD storage drive in my system to back up all my flight simulator installers. But the reality is that I only need these back up installers if I am doing a total rebuild of my system. If I was going to purposely rebuild PD3V3, I would copy all my ORBX installed products to my back up hard drive. Since my registry and FTX 3 already have the products licensed and installed. I would simply copy the Orbx products back to the simulator and run FTX 3, which, I believe, would generate a new scenery cfg. 

 

Greg

 

You are 100% correct. There is no need to backup installers if you backup your entire ORBX directory before a sim re-install, system rebuild or OS re-install. Just copy the Orbx folder back into the sim root folder, run FTX Central V3 and everything is taken care of automatically. The only thing that needs a re-install is FTX Global because it replaces default textures.

 

As I've said many times, this is the preferred way to reinstall ORBX on a sim and FTX Central V3 is designed to detect everything in the ORBX directory and do all the management for you. That's the beauty of the new system.

[Benny]

[banjoman1960]

3 minutes ago, John Venema said:

 

In that case, backup your entire ORBX folder before you re-image. Simple. Instant Orbx re-install with just a directory copy. You just need to re-install FTX Global because it replaces system default textures. Everything else FTX Central V3 takes care of.

 

i will do this way then,so no need for redownload all,only global i need then to download..........so no useless trafic from me,if it work this way
 

[olli4740]

Frankly speaking, I do not know whether piracy-protected files can be distributed via torrents. Are torrent file-distribution techniques compatible with DRM and all that stuff?

[Kimo]

50TB for 8000 users does not sound that bad. That is only about 6GB per user.

Does not look like hoarding but more like testing the new V3 central.

I installed a few sceneries when V3 came out. It was so easy and fast.

[John Venema]

1 minute ago, banjoman1960 said:

i will do this way then,so no need for redownload all,only global i need then to download..........so no useless trafic from me,if it work this way
 

 

Great, we have one convert!! Thanks Banjo.

[bernd1151]

29 minutes ago, John Venema said:

I admit it. I messed up. I should have kept the old FSS installers active. My bad, shit happens.

No worries, John, something like this was most probably not forseeable and I am confident that there will be a solution for everyone, your business included !!

 

Remember what Churchill once said:

I am always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught  

 

[bladerunner900]

12 minutes ago, John Venema said:

 

In that case, backup your entire ORBX folder before you re-image. Simple. Instant Orbx re-install with just a directory copy. You just need to re-install FTX Global because it replaces system default textures. Everything else FTX Central V3 takes care of.

This is extremely useful information. It never occurred to me that this method was possible. It means I already have the ORBX folder backed up in my Acronis full system backup.

[NoLonger]

Well, I have to say I fully understand what Orbx is doing and the need for it. And I also think that (even though 'disabling' the FSS downloads might not have been the best idea) we are in this situation mainly due to all those customers who apparently can not read. Seriously. Even in this topic I did read questions about downloads that have been answered in the FAQ that was online the day FTCX3 had been released. I already posted a few times why the heck everyone was downloading their products just for backups! Seriously! I deleted all my FSS downloads because I am happy I can use that SSD space for more usefull things and whenever I need to (re)install something, FTXC3 allows me to download and install the latest version with a single click. Awesome. I don't need backups because I have backups online. If you had everything installed, why the heck did you start downloading everything just for backups? It makes no sense at all.

 

And to those who moan about the temporary (!) daily limit: get a life. I mean, seriously, get a life: there is more to life than flightsimming. You won't die if have to reinstall your sim and can only start flying with one Orbx addon installed. First world problems. Seriously once more. I honestly don't understand why some of you are so upset. Why needs all products at once, as was stated earlier already. Install the sim, install for instance an FTX region and enjoy it. Install an airport the next day and enjoy it. Or just don't fly for a week or two until you have 14 addons installed. Why the hurry. Again, there is more to life than flightsimming.

 

A lot of flightsim customers behave like spoiled little brats who want everything now now now right now or else... Seriously. There is some serious shit going on in the world right now: maybe you should use your energy to do something about that instead of moaning about your precious sim not having all 150 addons installed on day one.

 

Ah well... sorry for the rant.

 

[banjoman1960]

7 minutes ago, John Venema said:

 

Great, we have one convert!! Thanks Banjo.

You are Welcome,

 

i want only a save and working backup,as easy as possible,

 

So maybee make a sticky tread,how to make a save and easy to use Backup for all,and all problems are gone

[Perk]

So out of curiosity... I have 170gb of Orbx products installed into P3Dv3.4.  I have copies of all the individual installers from FSS on network attached storage.  I'm also planning building myself a new PC for Christmas.  Why in Trump's name would I need to download anything to move to the new PC?  Can't I just copy the \Orbx directory up to the NAS, then back down into a fresh P3D installation on the new PC, install FTX Central 3, sign in to my account, and be good?  Surely FTX Central 3 can handle scenery library insertions and individual file validation without installer wrappers for every product?

[aurel42]

1 hour ago, John Venema said:

Let me ask the question - who would pay a $30 fee to have a year's worth of unlimited downloads of everything?

 

Let me reply this way:

 

The new FTX Central made purchasing a product so comfortable that, last night, I "impulse purchased" a region and an airport. (That was more than 30 bucks.)

 

I wouldn't have considered that purchase from FSS because of their cumbersome DRM wrapper.

And I would not have considered that purchase if you had changed the rules yesterday instead of today.

 

Or, to put it more bluntly, for a short while, I was a happy OrbX customer, because it felt as if you had mitigated the problems that come for the customer with any DRM solution. (Just like I am a happy Steam customer.)

 

But now I have to realize that, thanks to DRM (ie. the migration from one DRM service to another DRM service), I have just lost access to a service I paid for ("reinstall any of those products from network at any time"). That's not as bad as Amazon "recalling" a book you purchased from your Kindle, but it is an unexpected restriction, that reminds me harshly that DRM is always bad for me as a customer and not to put too much trust in any company that feels the need to use it. It reminds me that if OrbX goes belly-up and the DRM server is offline, I have to go search for the products I purchased on a "third-party" site to be able to continue to use them.

 

Also, I put myself in a worse position, because I trusted your promise so much that I deleted all the FSS files I had backed up ("I won't need them any more, they won't work any longer and I can just install everything at any time from FTX Central now!"). Of course, I will now start downloading stuff from your servers I wouldn't have to download, because nobody can predict whether that new rule will still be in effect when there is a need for me to reinstall P3D, so actually having the local copies is the only sensible alternative. But I'm sure you considered that when you discussed those measures, and you won't care about the extra traffic.

 

I only speak for myself, of course, but I don't trust OrbX as much as I did yesterday.

 

By the way, a more sensible way to handle this problem might have been to communicate the issue openly and friendly to customers without blaming them for OrbX's shortcomings in communication and client design, and suspend FSS migration until you added P2P support to your client (enforced while downloads, encouraged (ie. on while FTX Central is running) by default, with options to limit bandwidth or opt-out entirely). I would've been more than happy to support you that way. But $30 to get what I should get anyway because I paid for it? Right. Better not hold your breath for my next impulse purchase.

 

Cheers,

Marc