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UK / Ireland photoreal regions coming to XP, AFS2 and FSX/P3D!


John Venema

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12 hours ago, John Venema said:

This is a whole different league to previous UK photoreal products. It is relatively recent imagery for a start, (Ireland has not even been completely flown yet). This is not satellite imagery, but taken from low flying aircraft under the cloud layer using specialist equipment.

LIDAR data as well? :) 

This all looks tremendous, congrats!  I have to say I harbour a slight hope that somewhere in a secret lab you have Darren and Vikki working away on these products - it would be great if they were somehow involved in realising projects that they did so much to push the envelope on in years gone by through Earth Sims... 

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8 hours ago, riverreveal said:

 

Thanks for the info.

 

I need to invest in a bigger SSD. Actually, make that many bigger SSDs...!

you shouldnt need SSDs for photoreal storage, buy fast large HDDs, much more storage, much cheaper, and you'll hardly notice any performance difference in sim...

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8 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

120GB for all of Germany probably equates to 1.2m per pixel resolution (considering that the Horizon England & Wales photoscenery is around 80GB). Personally, I would be looking for 0.6m per pixel, and I don't care how much disk space is required!

I 'm with you Chris.. Maybe it would even be worth compiling it for 2 different LODs, to appeal to people with different demands and storage capabilities?

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11 hours ago, Pete H said:

For what its worth, I would happily pay in the region of £200 for such a product (a combined ENG/WLS/SCO for XP11 and P3D).

 

When the Horizon series was released (10 units including Eire x2) they we priced at an average of £35 each. That must be at least a decade ago.  Would be very surprised if you will be able to purchase the full package, for the price you mention and for two different Sims as well.  But hey, nothing wrong with a bit of optimism.  ;)

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I assume that the photoreal Scotland package will include the Western Isles, Orkneys, and Shetland Isles?

Is there a possibility of seeing an ORBx EINN Shannon airport package at some point? It would make a lovely addon for the Republic of Ireland photoreal scenery.

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Answering some questions raised:

 

Each region will cost A$54.95 just like our LC based regions. Therefore all of UK + Ireland will cost A$274.75 or £150/€165/USD200. This is before we offer a discount for customers who already own the equivalent LC regions. (N.Ireland may be cheaper due to its small size).

 

Orbx won’t offer a subscription service, that business model is fraught with danger and complexity. Our cash flow is more than sufficient month to month. 

 

There is 20m elevation mesh for England, Wales and Scotland. Default for Ireland and N.Ireland, although we will investigate new sources.

 

Coverage will include all islands which are part of the UK.

 

We don’t know installation sizes yet, it’s a bit premature to ask us that. It’s safe to say they will be large.

 

 

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 I couldn't believe what I was seeing when I saw this announcement! I couldn't even publish what I said to my wife, as a forum ban would undoubtedly follow, but lets just say, Gordon Ramsey would have blushed!

 

Nothing in the flight sim world has compelled me to even remotely consider a PC upgrade, until this! I currently have the UK (Playsims) in photoreal, together with the Earth Simulations Channel Islands, freeware Netherlands, Germany, France, Italy, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Austria, Switzerland, Canary Islands, Corsica, Malta, Sardinia and the Balearics, and (to my mind), even with its obvious shortcomings (colour shifts, lack of autogen), it is fantastic! It not only looks great, but without autogen, it performs brilliantly. 

 

I would gladly give that up for just an Orbx UK, Ireland, Netherlands and Germany with full autogen and colour correction. That in itself gives huge scope for VFR, as well as short hop and domestic tube-liner flights, and with that level of detail/autogen, why would I need to go further afield? :D.

 

Giving the option of seasonal upgrades is a good idea. Personally, I've never even thought of going beyond 'summer' in land-class scenery, and I certainly don't miss 'seasons' in Photo Real. I was a little surprised at the strength of feeling with regards to seasonal change that so many users expressed in the 'Netherlands' thread, so clearly there is a demand for it, so optional upgrades would be the way to go.

 

Given that so many commercial airline flights from the UK, Ireland and Netherlands fly to the Canary Islands and the Balearics (Majorca etc), might you consider future "experience packs" for those Island chains using the same technology? I currently have freeware versions, and they are great places to explore in themselves, but are also excellent (2 hr and 4 hour) hops for the PMDG guys.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Airtrooper said:

I was assuming it would be the same as the current standard of 25cm for orthophotography in the UK, at least as far as BlueSky, GetMapping and others go... if not the new standard of 12.5cm

 

12.5cm would take up a huge amount of disk space (TBs), so realistically I think very few people would be willing to go that level unless they only flew in the given country and had a video RAM to support it. Either way, we don't know how much storage space will be required, but it's safe to presume it will be substantially more than a landclass product

 

 

 

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What great news. I agree that the storage requirements will be large and also concur that a high speed HDD or even a multi TB Hybrid would suffice. So much cheaper that trying to buy 4TB SSD's. Personally I am not bothered about seasons especially winter and snow covering. Not a great deal of snow in UK ()despite the recent Beast from the East !) so to see the actual scenery is more important to me that seeing a blanket of white with most of the detail hidden by the blanket.  I must start putting pennies in the savings box now so i can splash out the £150 as soon as the UK regions are released.

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Coverage good, price reasonable, whats not to like? Good work JV and Orbx, £150 from me coming your way.. :D. Please compile a 0.6m version as well though, it would hardly take much extra time and resource once the base imagery is colour corrected etc. 1m/pp may be adequate for most use cases, but extreme lowlevel VFR requires a little more... and who wants to settle for adequate anyway??  Charge a small premium for the additional bandwidth :P

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12 hours ago, John Venema said:

These regions will be 1m/pixel resolution downsampled from 12.5cm. There is no way the consumer FS market could cope with regions at higher resolutions, nor could our online store infrastructure cope with the delivery bandwidth and costs. I can assure you that 1m/pixel resolution is more than crisp in the sim, all our Netherlands preview shots have used a lower resolution 2m/pixel during the beta stage and it looks stunning.

 

Consider that moving from 1m/pixel textures to 25cm/pixel textures is sixteen (16!!) times the texture size and GPU memory requirements. Just not even feasible with today’s GPUs and storage. And you don’t want to wait 15 minutes loading a flight either ....

 

Before they closed shop Earth Simulations did something like this with NW Scotland. I have the 60cm/pixel version which takes up a fair bit of space and is visually stunning but they also offered a 30cm/pixel professional level version which obviously required serious amounts of storage. It also had full autogen and custom buildings but the location was presumably picked as this region of the UK has relatively less of these terrain features. I think the plan was to cover the whole UK eventually but that was a very tall order for a small company...

 

The big problems with the existing UK VFR scenery (VFR Gen X) were variable quality photo-scenery (particularly Scotland) and lack of full autogen. However they did have 5m mesh so I'd hope that would be possible here.

 

Based on the screenshots I'm fully expecting Orbx to be able to achieve the level of quality of the Earth Sims products for the whole UK, or better!

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12 minutes ago, robmw said:

However they did have 5m mesh so I'd hope that would be possible here.

Just re-use the mesh from the Horizon sceneries in a separate scenery layer, (as long as you own it of course!), it was nominally 5m, not sure if that was the source data resolution though.... 

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looking forward to this so I know that you said summer textures only for xplane-11 not sure if this would be feasible but X-Enviro's new SDK will allow scenery dev's to add seasons to the scenery's will this be possible at a later date with this scenery add on

 

William Gliva

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It would not be too hard to create some ReShade 3.x presets to create seasons in XP11. That would allow dynamic season switching with a bit of clever coding. Something we can look into of course.

 

@kevinfirth 60cm is not going to happen, the imagery license costs would be exponentially higher and the stress on HDD and GPU multiplied by 4. I think you will be pleasantly surprised how lovely 1m is going to look. I would think perhaps 5-6 years down the track when GPU DRAM and HDD/SSD storage at at much higher levels we could like into making a Pro version.

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2 minutes ago, John Venema said:

 

@kevinfirth 60cm is not going to happen, the imagery license costs would be exponentially higher and the stress on HDD and GPU multiplied by 4. I think you will be pleasantly surprised how lovely 1m is going to look. I would think perhaps 5-6 years down the track when GPU DRAM and HDD/SSD storage at at much higher levels we could like into making a Pro version.

Thanks for the clarity John, mildly disappointing but I get the rationale behind it. :)

 

The £150 is still of course yours, but you knew that anyway...  It will be a huge improvement on the current legacy PR some of us are using.

 

I have collected some very granular (1km sq) tree species data for the UK (no licensing issues) that I can pass on if it would be of use in making vegetation autogen species accurate for any given location?

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That video posted at the front, John.

 

I see that is VFR coming down to ground level. But what you haven't said is:

 

1. What was the frame rate - looks at least 100+ FPS?

2. What mesh resolution was used?

3. Loved the passenger voices - as an X-Plane user I have only heard FS Crew before now

4. It didn't look like autogen to me - those trees and buildings were pre-rendered, it seems. I like the way they didn't just "pop" into view, but appeared smoothly.

5. I like the moving cars over the M25 - and they were on the left unlike normal X-Plane (mostly)

 

Now, much as I like the scenery, I have a problem. I'm doing so much IFR flying these days using Skyview and G1000 I have my eyes glued to the instruments most of the time. In fact I get so task-saturated I haven't got time to look out the window and admire the scenery!

 

So here's a suggestion. How about I buy just, say, the last 500 feet of runway approaches only, at a massive discount off the normal scenery? That seems fair and equitable to me!

 

>:D

 

PS money waiting to buy, here in my wallet - now!

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7 minutes ago, norfolk mike said:

Photo Scenery with autogen will be as real as it gets Fizzelle, BUT........:D Erm.........:D. Christ, I don't know how to break it to him?

 

That was real footage Fizzelle. Probably taken by JV on his way back from his holidays. 

 

Oh! My illusions shattered  :(

 

I'll get my coat - it's the one with £300 in the pocket to buy UK and Ireland photoreal.

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:D Okay, so you was viewing it on your mobile phone screen, easy mistake to make.

 

I'm in for everything UK, Ireland and continental Europe. USA regions will have their appeal (I currently have all of the NA regions), but I think I'll have to draw the line somewhere :(.

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As someone utterly ignorant of such things...  would it be theoretically possible to use PR for summer and landclass for winter via Central?  I like flying in winter, but can see the attraction to PR in summer.

 

Mike

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On 14-3-2018 at 12:30 PM, John Venema said:

Airports will be upgraded in the FSX/P3D version but we are not 100% decided on XP/AFS2 for airports at this stage. Those may follow in a service pack or we take a different approach (more details TBC).

 

First of all: GREAT NEWS!!! Didn't see this coming but it makes me pretty happy!!! Also nice to hear AFS2 will not be the last to come since I am only using AFS2 right now (because of the superb performance and ease of setting up and using it). Can't wait (again)!!!

 

However, regarding the quote: you DO know that AFS2 has no airports AT ALL outside of its own default regions...? If you are thinking about releasing the UK for AFS2 without airports you might as well NOT release it because we won't be able to take off or land anywhere... ;) 

 

And btw you also mention traffic: I presume this won't be happening in AFS2 too...? Or do you perhaps have some new tech for us that will enable traffic in AFS2 regions?

 

Anyway, this is going to be a great year... FTX Netherlands was enough to make me completely happy already but now this... The UK, Germany... wow, I must be dreaming!!!!!!!

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1 hour ago, kevinfirth said:

 

I have collected some very granular (1km sq) tree species data for the UK (no licensing issues) that I can pass on if it would be of use in making vegetation autogen species accurate for any given location?

 

Hi Kevin, we have tree data for England and Wales only, so yes please; if you have data for other parts for the uK then contact the team at info@orbxsystems.com - make it attention to Tony Wroblewski. Much appreciated!

 

42 minutes ago, Fizzelle said:

I'll get my coat - it's the one with £300 in the pocket to buy UK and Ireland photoreal.

 

You could buy two copies with £300, it will be closer to £150.

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Neither do I think the main issue will be storage space those days. Nor ORBX' servers, albeit a challenge for sure.

 

The main issue will be at the user's end. From what I see, quite a number of users >enjoy< a sort capping making the download potentially more expensive than the scenery itself. Others are still on slooow connections, and by far not only deep in the woods. The number of users in the seconds class can, perhaps, be identified from the ORBX server logs, those in the first class probably not.

 

While I count myself lucky to have a speedy link, I suppose ORBX will have to think about alternative distribution channels indeed to make this endeavor a success.

 

Kind regards, Michael

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Given the very large size involved here (and for any future products using this approach), can we please have the option to install the bulk of the files in a location of the user’s choosing rather than on the drive that has the sim on it? Most of us have it installed on an SSD, and no matter how big those are, that’s not a long-term solution for installing Orbx stuff if you guys keep producing these phototerrain products.

 

This looks amazing, but sad to say I won’t be buying if there isn’t that option — as I’d need to both buy a new, very large (and expensive) SSD and (worse!) reinstall the whole sim onto it.

 

James

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Hi John

I had he pleasure of meeting you at Cosford last October when we discussed the missing Caerphilly castle in Wales. Photoreal will sort that for sure.

I like many other people have P3D with Global; Vector & all of the landclasses plus many airports.

Will FTX Central deal/not deal  with this technically regarding removal of these not just addition of Photoreal as & when available please ?

Regards

Howard

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4 hours ago, kevinfirth said:

I have collected some very granular (1km sq) tree species data for the UK (no licensing issues) that I can pass on if it would be of use in making vegetation autogen species accurate for any given location?

Hi Kevin

 

Yes, this could be very useful if you could pass it on. The more data the better :)

 

Cheers

 

Tony

 

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Let's hope that higher resolution terrain mesh can be sourced for these photoreal products, because 20m (and particularly default) sounds rather too low to me. As Kevin has indicated, I should be able to use the PlayHorizon 5m mesh for England/Wales/Scotland, and the PlayHorizon 10m mesh for the Republic of Ireland, but I do not currently have any custom terrain mesh for Northern Ireland....

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WoW!! This is great news John. If you are going to add UK airfields May I request that you put in one or two Gliding sites for us Glider types! We are often the poorer relation in the flight sim world!! 

I’d be particularly keen on having Sutton Bank in North Yorkshire 

I’m one of the leading users of flight simulation in Gliding in the UK so if you need any advice of what we need in this area then please ask. 

Many thanks for your great products ...... now back to Innsbruck! 

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7 hours ago, pmb said:

Neither do I think the main issue will be storage space those days. Nor ORBX' servers, albeit a challenge for sure.

 

The main issue will be at the user's end. From what I see, quite a number of users >enjoy< a sort capping making the download potentially more expensive than the scenery itself. Others are still on slooow connections, and by far not only deep in the woods. The number of users in the seconds class can, perhaps, be identified from the ORBX server logs, those in the first class probably not.

 

While I count myself lucky to have a speedy link, I suppose ORBX will have to think about alternative distribution channels indeed to make this endeavor a success.

 

Kind regards, Michael

I think you have it right Michael. This isn't going to work without some sort of availability on portable media. I, too, have a fast internet connection with a monthly cap that's high enough to not be a problem. But (but there is always one of those) I doubt that I'll do much buying of very large files simply because of the unreliability of the CDN. Life's too short to dance with ugly women..... 

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X-Plane 11 itself is between 60-79GB to download from either Laminar and Steam, so I am puzzled why a region download of the same or smaller size would prove a stumbling block. We have no plans to distribute any Orbx products on physical media.

 

I sense this topic is heading for a case of over-scrutiny by several forum members. Please allow the community to digest the announcement without subjecting it to forensic analysis. We have not yet determined download or installation sizes so please don’t put the cart before the horse folks :) 

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Cannot wait for this! Thanks John and the team at ORBX for this announcement. The UK and Ireland is going to look stunning! Especially in VR! You’ll have my money for the X Plane and AFS2 version here. 

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6 hours ago, Buffy Foster said:

How do shadows work on photoreal?  Are they just whatever they were when the picture was made or are they put on at flight time? 

 

Photo scenery is subject to the time of day that the image was taken from the aircraft.  A shot taken at mid day would produce little shadow as most shots are recorded on a direct down view.  Images taken earlier or later will produce shadow.  High cost rendering can eliminate or cover it up.  Autogen is the means of producing shadow on a timed basis in all sims.

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Thanks for the news John. The Carrot just got bigger and moved out on a longer pole. Lol.

 

I have just moved to P3D v4 and already blown away by how much better the USA Rockies look, the though of photoreal + autogen is beyond words.

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