One can not not communicate

[Stillwater]

Paul Watzlawick, an austrian-american psychiatrist created a number of notable ideas, like the headline of this post. You can even transfer some thoughts to dealing with pandemics - more to read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Watzlawick

 

The sentence came to my mind yesterday, when I thought about the rare, but frequent requests in this forum regarding OpenLC Asia: I can´t remember any statement from Orbx officials or insiders on this project for many months (or is it years?). And yesterday was the first occasion that I got the impression that this not-communication my be not by accident - it could be the silent message that the project has been cancelled. What makes me sad. Well, I´d get used to it.

 

What do you think? Anyone here to cheer me up?

[John Heaton]

32 minutes ago, Stillwater said:

Paul Watzlawick, an austrian-american psychiatrist created a number of notable ideas, like the headline of this post. You can even transfer some thoughts to dealing with pandemics - more to read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Watzlawick

 

The sentence came to my mind yesterday, when I thought about the rare, but frequent requests in this forum regarding OpenLC Asia: I can´t remember any statement from Orbx officials or insiders on this project for many months (or is it years?). And yesterday was the first occasion that I got the impression that this not-communication my be not by accident - it could be the silent message that the project has been cancelled. What makes me sad. Well, I´d get used to it.

 

What do you think? Anyone here to cheer me up?

Gerold

I dont know about cheering you up - but you may have just opened a can of worms- but then again - this might help

 

As you know - an so do many others on this forum - I have been spouting the benefits of 2020 when it gets to to X Box since the 

sim was first announced - 30 months ago

 

Then last Sept the x Box series X went on sale - and the sim went on to it in Sept this year - and I still havent got my hands on

a console as yet - neither have millions of others - so my large screen 4K HDR10 screen sits there - forlornly -  awaiting a friend 

As I said - Then again -  xbox and 2020 dont seem to be going to well together - limits to size of addons - DC 6 scrapped and money back -

a number of other probs - so maybe - fate intervened - in that - something I wanted badly - I aint got - and would probably be even 

more frustrated if I had got one -  just like you and many others about the Asia LC thing.

 

Look at it this way -- just as the experts were ready to give all of us a xmas gift of OLC Asia - along came V5.3 !!!!! 

[wain71]

not really sure on Open LC Asia, would be nice for someone to update, even if it was to say it was delayed or proving to be harder than imagined....and like John just said along comes 5.3, but I do agree a statement would be nice, even if it was saying it was no more....I for sure would buy even though I am using 4.5....hopefully we do get an answer soon....

[John York]

I'm guessing but the difficulties of getting anywhere near lifelike scenery for China & Russia must be tremendous.

 

 

[Rodger Pettichord]

I think they delay just to give us Forum folk an ongoing source of discussion.

[John Dow]

I read today that UK2000 are not going to develop scenery for the P3D sims in favour of MSFS, simply because the work required to develop the P3D scenery is not delivering a return, as (I think) it said up to 80% of business is now MSFS.

 

I can well imagine that the Orbx devs, looking at the resources in the office, and prioritising projects that will offer the best return for the investment (as is the strange ways of commerce) and keep the Open LC Asia in the list but move other projects up over it.

 

I'm sure, as promised, development will continue but only when resources allow.

[MarkH]

13 hours ago, Rodger Pettichord said:

I think they delay just to give us Forum folk an ongoing source of discussion.

 

Nice reframe

[dave302]

I don't think the Orbx folks would do that.

 

It would make no sense for them to do such a disrespectful thing as to cancel the project but not notify their customers who've been waiting for it for over a year.

 

Dave

[Captain Lars]

On 12/18/2021 at 4:11 PM, dave302 said:

I don't think the Orbx folks would do that.

 

It would make no sense for them to do such a disrespectful thing as to cancel the project but not notify their customers who've been waiting for it for over a year.

Thank you, that's what I think, too: extremely disrespectful.

 

On 12/18/2021 at 8:26 AM, John Dow said:

I can well imagine that the Orbx devs, looking at the resources in the office, and prioritising projects that will offer the best return for the investment (as is the strange ways of commerce) and keep the Open LC Asia in the list but move other projects up over it.

I think there is only one guy, Eugene, who is tasked with OpenLC.

 

On 12/17/2021 at 7:48 AM, Stillwater said:

What do you think? Anyone here to cheer me up?

Cheers! 

[xuehua china]

1 hour ago, Captain Lars said:

Thank you, that's what I think, too: extremely disrespectful.

 

I think there is only one guy, Eugene, who is tasked with OpenLC.

 

Cheers! 

Asia is complex and normal for a long time. Orbx has sent screenshots several times, and Asia 23 has been done. They may release them together on the forum.

[flying_fish]

It's like Father Christmas - no one would dream of suggesting he isn't real...

[wolfko]

On 12/22/2021 at 11:21 AM, flying_fish said:

It's like Father Christmas - no one would dream of suggesting he isn't real...

 

Of course he is real. 

[B12]

Since nobody from Orbx has come forward yet again but possible/probable admins soon to try stifle this topic soon perhaps, nobody really knows.

Its clear they want to bury this.

And before you start, Nick and Doug, do like you both Admin or otherwise, but this debacle has gone on far to long, deep down you both know it I'm sure.

There is nothing either of you can do or say to rectify or pacify this situation now, please pass this on as an ultra escalated multiple Customer complaint with no bans please, it really is beyond a joke now and has went on with no real answers for far to long.

We'll never know unless we get a definitive answer from Orbx soon, this is borderline perpetual now and showing pure destain towards good paying customers of many many years, not necessarily post counts here.

Please sort your selves out Orbx its not good seeing this company go down hill from what it used to be.

Its been far to long now.

Sincerely.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Nick Cooper
Personal attack removed

[B12]

On 12/18/2021 at 7:26 AM, John Dow said:

I read today that UK2000 are not going to develop scenery for the P3D sims in favour of MSFS, simply because the work required to develop the P3D scenery is not delivering a return, as (I think) it said up to 80% of business is now MSFS.

 

I can well imagine that the Orbx devs, looking at the resources in the office, and prioritising projects that will offer the best return for the investment (as is the strange ways of commerce) and keep the Open LC Asia in the list but move other projects up over it.

 

I'm sure, as promised, development will continue but only when resources allow.

And I fear that's as near an official reply we will get from Orbx, its just not going to happen

What Orbx promises have to do with what UK2000 decide should have nothing to do with it John Dow, also seen other customer members get warnings for mentioning direct competitors here.

We all know Orbx management has changed and its now focused for FS2020 for the most part.

No manager from Orbx will step up to the plate and say this though, they leave it to customers who are dissatisfied and sit back for Nick and Doug to try sort out, its a terrible shame.

Mark my words, we can more or less forget about anything more complex from Orbx for P3D now.

Edited February 4, 2022 by B12

[John Dow]

40 minutes ago, B12 said:

What Orbx promises have to do with what UK2000 decide should have nothing to do with it John Dow, also seen other customer members get warnings for mentioning direct competitors here.

Sorry I wasn't suggesting Orbx based any decisions on what other firms are doing. I was simply trying to put a bit of market context into the mix. If one company announces that it is finding it difficult to get a return on P3D development it doesn't take a giant leap of logic to assume it's across the industry. 

[Stillwater]

9 hours ago, John Dow said:

it is finding it difficult to get a return on P3D development it doesn't take a giant leap of logic to assume it's across the industry. 

One aspect: This is a vicious circle: No new products, no new sales - obvious. Another strong holdback is the fact that MSFS seems to require totally different programming than p3d, therefore there are no discounts for previously bought add-ons. Which makes customers investment in "old tech" also not attractive.

My only exemption is Orbx scenery: It has proven to be so good, I get them all in p3d, regardless of later full price in MSFS.

 

Coming back to the threads issue: Any word would be nice for the enthusiastic community.

[Captain Lars]

 

@EasternT3 I was at work yesterday and didn't have the time to reply to your posting. Your post contained a lot of 'misconceptions'.

 

Quote

Lars, I fail to see how the amount willingness to spend is in any way relevant to a roadmap, the roadmap is there purely as a placeholder so people know roughly what to expect, I'm just saying because the community has exploded since the release of 2020, you will have more people questioning the roadmap every 5 minutes

To my memory, I didn't comment on any roadmap. But the willingness to spend is indeed very relevant to a roadmap.

 

Quote

The lower prices for MSFS addons is simple economics, a larger userbase = more sales therefore can be sold at a lower cost to achieve the same profit margin

Bigger customer bases allow for smaller prices, that's correct, but  finding a 'good' price is not at all a trivial thing to do. Customers are generally charged what they are willing to pay. If they are willing to pay more, they are charged more. This is another simple side of economics.

 

Quote

Oh yeah and btw, casual gamers tend to move on from games after 4-6 months, not 2 years.

Another assumption based on thin air. Apart from this, MSFS was released in august of 2020, so this is 18 months and not two years, if I'm not mistaken.

 

Quote

Why are P3D users threatened so much that even when the discussion is not on sim vs sim, you feel the need to drag it back to it. I cba talking about it anymore, but the numbers are on MSFS's side, go look at navigraph's report, and these numbers will grow by the end of 2022, with the release of the NG3 and Fenix A320, that's a fact btw.

That numbers will grow is obviously not a fact, it's an expectation, which is a tiny difference.  I did not bring up the MSFS subject. Actually I never bring this subject up, because I have absolutely no interest in bringing it up. I have an interest in OpenLC Asia, as should anyone who enters a thread that has "OpenLC Asia" in its title. The subject was brought up by another user; I suggest you have a look.

 

At the moment, I couldn't care less about MSFS. As I said countless times, MSFS has obviously much better visuals, which is no wonder since it is a much newer platform. Nobody doubts that, nobody said anything different. MSFS is not going to be 'neglected' because of Orbx developing a product for P3D. But MSFS is not a sim that I am going to use in the near future. Why? That's my cup of tea and I don't owe you an explanation.

 

Honestly, I don't understand why you are active in a thread called "OpenLC Asia Phase 1", as you are obviously not interested in OpenLC Asia. You have nothing to lose out of this product. Your beloved MSFS is not getting smaller, slower, or less fantastic due to it, there's absolutely nothing taken away from you. I suggest you just let others enjoy what they like. We are living in a free society, after all, and this means that we are not stepping in others' affairs and trying to ruin their hobbies.

 

Posts like yours aim at some kind of delegitimization of OpenLC Asia, and we are witnessing them since Orbx committed to its development. They are destructive.

 

[Captain Lars]

I am extremely grateful towards Orbx that they took up the challenge and once again committed to the development of OpenLC Asia. Breaking their vows and discontinuing the development a second time is virtually impossible to imagine for me.

 

Of course, an update on the state of affairs is always welcome. And yes, great products take their time.

[EasternT3]

9 hours ago, Captain Lars said:

But the willingness to spend is indeed very relevant to a roadmap.

How? If anything what products people buy is related to the roadmap, not the price or what they're willing to spend, if anything people are willing to spend a cr*p ton more in MSFS, which is why you're seeing a lot more products both payware and freeware than P3D on average (when it was the main sim)

 

9 hours ago, Captain Lars said:

Bigger customer bases allow for smaller prices, that's correct, but  finding a 'good' price is not at all a trivial thing to do. Customers are generally charged what they are willing to pay. If they are willing to pay more, they are charged more. This is another simple side of economics.

 I'm sure if MSFS prices went back to P3D prices then people would still spend, yes not as much but they still would, just like how P3D prices would be £5-£10 cheaper if P3D ever had the market to support that

 

10 hours ago, Captain Lars said:

Another assumption based on thin air. Apart from this, MSFS was released in august of 2020, so this is 18 months and not two years, if I'm not mistaken.

 

 

Not thin air (now who's the one assuming lars ) if you look at the tread data for videos games (or just understand the basic cycles of games) you'll know this is true. Take FIFA, it releases in September, by March, the only ones playing it are the serious players, the casuals have moved on, same with Call of Duty or any other game. 18 months/2 years...still longer than the average attention span of a average gamer, and another point, if 95% of the MSFS user base left (like you said in your post), MSFS would still have a user base 95 times bigger than P3D at it's peak. (I'll happily provide data for that)

 

10 hours ago, Captain Lars said:

That numbers will grow is obviously not a fact, it's an expectation, which is a tiny difference. 

A expectation based on fact, I don't know what forums you frequent but on A2A's/PMDG and even a couple here, there's so many comments saying I am moving to MSFS once product X is released for the platform, namely the NG3 and A2A aircraft but I have a feeling the Fenix A320 will bring some bus drivers to MSFS. Also look at the tread data for MSFS usage over the last 18 months

 

10 hours ago, Captain Lars said:

I did not bring up the MSFS subject. Actually I never bring this subject up, because I have absolutely no interest in bringing it up. I have an interest in OpenLC Asia, as should anyone who enters a thread that has "OpenLC Asia" in its title. The subject was brought up by another user; I suggest you have a look.

 

Have you got a short memory? I replied to Stiillwater's comment talking about roadmaps, neither of us brought up a sim, it was a discussion about roadmaps in general, you said

 

"I have a hard time imaging that the advent of MSFS has created such a large amount of die hard simmers. It has created a large amout of casual simmers of whom 95% will soon be off to more 'gamey games' or whatever distracts them best."

 

so yes Lars you did bring up MSFS, I don't know how you can sit there and say you didn't because you didn't, maybe read the thread leading up to the comment and. you'll see it was you that brought up MSFS....

 

10 hours ago, Captain Lars said:

 But MSFS is not a sim that I am going to use in the near future. Why? That's my cup of tea and I don't owe you an explanation.

Ok...I didn't ask for one nor expect one so it's cute you thinking I wanted one

 

10 hours ago, Captain Lars said:

suggest you just let others enjoy what they like. We are living in a free society, after all, and this means that we are not stepping in others' affairs and trying to ruin their hobbies.

 

Posts like yours aim at some kind of delegitimization of OpenLC Asia, and we are witnessing them since Orbx committed to its development. They are destructive.

 

I visit the forum to look at what Orbx does as a whole for the community, so I do view P3D threads from time to time as I did spend 6/7 years with it as my main sim so it's still nice to see what happens, but you miss the irony here Lars, my comment in that thread had nothing to do with Asia, P3D or MSFS, it was to do with roadmaps. You yes you Lars then made it into this conversation, because you brought sims into it. My comments had nothing to do with ruining the hobby, nor did I say anything about how Orbx should stop developement, that's you putting words trying to words into my mouth

[EasternT3]

1 hour ago, EasternT3 said:

MSFS would still have a user base 95 times bigger than P3D at it's peak. (I'll happily provide data for that)

EDIT : I meant 5 times, my brain obviously doesn’t work first thing in the morning  

[Stillwater]

C´mon guys, get back to the initial intention of this post. Any side discussions may better take place somewhere else.

Or, another suggestion: Let´s go flying!

[Captain Lars]

9 hours ago, EasternT3 said:

so yes Lars you did bring up MSFS, I don't know how you can sit there and say you didn't because you didn't, maybe read the thread leading up to the comment and. you'll see it was you that brought up MSFS....

[...]

You yes you Lars then made it into this conversation, because you brought sims into it. My comments had nothing to do with ruining the hobby, nor did I say anything about how Orbx should stop developement, that's you putting words trying to words into my mouth

 

No, I did not bring up the sim topic. The sim topic was brought up by a user who stated:

Quote

Not intending to start a brawl on flight simulators, but maybe it will be better to move to the next generation of flight simulator. I have tried it and am astonished at the details and quality it comes with out of the box. Maybe, the development team is considering that, too. 

My comments were initially in response to this post, which brought up the issue.

 

Anyway, just enjoy MSFS as I enjoy P3D and I am more than happy to close the topic.

 

2 hours ago, Stillwater said:

C´mon guys, get back to the initial intention of this post. Any side discussions may better take place somewhere else.

Or, another suggestion: Let´s go flying!

Agreed.

[EasternT3]

2 hours ago, Captain Lars said:

My comments were initially in response to this post, which brought up the issue.

 

Anyway, just enjoy MSFS as I enjoy P3D and I am more than happy to close the topic.

My apologies, I'm sorry I didn't realise the entire post wasn't aimed at me. (It's been a crap week, with the death of someone very close to me so I'm not thinking straight)

 

Agreed and for what it's worth, I hope OpenLC Asia releases sooner rather than later for you guys...after all we are here for the same reason, we love aviation and flight simulation.

[Captain Lars]

I'm very happy to read this. @Stillwater