aero-3fsx Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Was just reading an interview about MSFS with FSdreamteam here is a quote of the discussion -- The lighting environment is so good, that is hard to believe it doesn’t use Ray Tracing. Even a blank object with no textures looks decent there, and this is very rewarding, and it makes you wanting do more. Also, MSFS has a huge customization potential, and Asobo has been very clever in finding a good balance between extensibility and the ability of users and developers to screw up with the sim, or create conflicting add-ons. looking at the file structure and poking into undocumented things, it’s clear the sim was designed to be customizable in countless of ways, using standard file formats ( xml, html, json, css, javascript, etc. ), and this bodes very well for the future. If you want to read the whole fascinating interview go to SimFlight, 25 August Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olderndirt Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Methinks MSFS has acquired a very large group of paying beta testers - how clever is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Attwood Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 2 hours ago, olderndirt said: Methinks MSFS has acquired a very large group of paying beta testers - how clever is that? When did you ever buy a piece of software that was 100% finished on release? Which piece of software never got an 'update' 'fix' or 'patch'? I certainly can't think of one. Even our beloved Orbx issue patches, fixes and updates. No, I'm not a rabid MFS fanboy although I do think it's very good, even though I am, as we speak, re-installing it because of a glitch I can't fix. It's just that the 'paying beta tester' thing is getting a bit old. *Thinks* Post rant? Yeah, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metthos Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Almost all of the existing bugs was reported during Alpha and Beta testing but MS/Asobo went on with the release despite knowing it and without fixing it. Its a lot of eye-candy and some scenery's looks really good but the actual simulation is not improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Attwood Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Metthos said: Almost all of the existing bugs was reported during Alpha and Beta testing but MS/Asobo went on with the release despite knowing it and without fixing it. Its a lot of eye-candy and some scenery's looks really good but the actual simulation is not improved. But you bought it anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzelle Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Because Ron there was a theory that there was a magical build out there that had all the Zendesk tickets fixed. Qu'elle horreur when all the testers realised there wasn't and the Alpha/Beta state was released. Hence a lot of bitterness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigeaglefire Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Firstly, I am still very happy with P3D4/5, XP11 Vulcan, DCS, Aerofly FS2, IL-2 - with plenty of add ons. However, very pleased with the immediate $value of MFS - Steam Standard version, & using FS-FlightControl as moving map & lots of extra functionality (yes SimConnect needs to be fixed ASAP). The most striking aspect of MFS, to me, is the global internet streaming scenery system - very impressive infrastructure (make sure you have a quality ISP) - & of course the AI deployed in this scenery. @Mawson, like you, very disappointed at the lack of helicopters - surely an advanced flight model system should have incorporated rotorcraft from the initial stages of planning. Likewise, the current lack of VR is also disappointing - particularly given VR currently works well in other flight sims - & all we have now is a promise of VR for MFS (seems silly given the recent development of the Reverb G2 with Microsoft as development partner). However, i sure have received AUD$99 of value - even in a couple of weeks & the future looks bright for flight sims! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mawson Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 19 hours ago, aero-3fsx said: Was just reading an interview about MSFS with FSdreamteam here is a quote of the discussion -- The lighting environment is so good, that is hard to believe it doesn’t use Ray Tracing. Even a blank object with no textures looks decent there, and this is very rewarding, and it makes you wanting do more. Also, MSFS has a huge customization potential, and Asobo has been very clever in finding a good balance between extensibility and the ability of users and developers to screw up with the sim, or create conflicting add-ons. looking at the file structure and poking into undocumented things, it’s clear the sim was designed to be customizable in countless of ways, using standard file formats ( xml, html, json, css, javascript, etc. ), and this bodes very well for the future. If you want to read the whole fascinating interview go to SimFlight, 25 August Of course this developer is excited as it's a whole new income stream, "all the developers are excited" as that is what developers do, the develop and sell product but it does not always line up with the best interests of the consumer. All I see is that MSFS has been developed on DX 11 and when it goes to DX 12 the add ons will break and it will be another upgrade income stream cycle (not all developers do the upgrade charges) , but some things will never change . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodger Pettichord Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 One thing I have learned over the years with MF9, FSX, P3D, and now MSF is that those of us who jump in at the beginning need to have patience. We as users have to be prepared to evolve alongside the program until we hit that sweet time when the system hits maturity and we all become diehard fans. I say this from the middle of my frustration with constant MFS crashes, confusing interface, and difficulty getting controllers properly set up. By the time we reach SP 2, or whatever it will be called, this iteration is going to be a keeper. In the meantime, baby steps and aargh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mawson Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 I half agree with you but this is not 1983 nor 1993 nor 2003 nor 2013 it is 2020 and I expected a flight sim with at least an equivalent set of functions as FSX with a lot of FPS improvements not an early release title sold at full retail price with the promise of 10 years more development with reduced scope than FSX. Where does it say they have guaranteed free upgrades for 10 years, all they said is there is more to come for the next 10 years. I have understanding with the bugs and some of the less than polished functions but there is a swath of things missing from what I and others call a flight sim and are essential in a modern flight sim and running on more than 4 cores is essential and they failed on that too. It only utilizes my CPU slightly better than X Plane 11! Patience and understanding is for your children not for a a multi billion dollar software and market leading IT company, sorry but I don't adhere to this idea that we need to pay top dollar and be thankful for whatever we get . Microsoft over hyped this and could have taken another 3 months and gave us a few more bells and whistles and that would have made a lot more people impressed than this over promising and then under delivering strategy they adopted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Hello, in all fairness, Asobo themselves have not "over-hyped" the simulator. That has been very capably done by those outside the development team whose motives were various but all based on invention and supposition, rather than fact. This provided a torrent of free publicity for the product but an equal torrent of unrealistic expectation which has, in some cases, now turned into disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mawson Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 25 minutes ago, Nick Cooper said: Hello, in all fairness, Asobo themselves have not "over-hyped" the simulator. That has been very capably done by those outside the development team whose motives were various but all based on invention and supposition, rather than fact. This provided a torrent of free publicity for the product but an equal torrent of unrealistic expectation which has, in some cases, now turned into disappointment. Very true but hopefully they deliver in the next 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Hello, I would fully expect them to, but they will be delivering their promises, not necessarily the wild supposition that has been proposed in some quarters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradB Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 For me I have the luxury of having plenty of time to take with the sim , before the install I made sure I was prepared for the install with the latest WIN10 build 2004 . I had heard of other install issues and I made sure all of these issues were taken care of before I started the install . The install was long ( 6 hours + ) but was flawless . Watching hours of YT videos I slowly gained the knowledge to setup my controls and the graphics settings . One thing I really like about the Sim is every option has a explanation of what it does and it’s effect . The only thing left on my to do list is using my X-box controller and using the drone . I have been blown away by the visuals of this Sim and how Live weather effects the atmosphere around me when I fly . Will I keep using XP and P3D , the answer is yes because of the Orbx TE products and all of the money I have spent on them . I am excited for the future of MS2020 and I can’t wait to see what is around the next corner with it . Cheers John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper31 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 For my part, I am kind of happy and kind of unhappy with MSFS. I agree it has great potential, but after using it since release, I wholeheartedly agree with Mawson's views above. Granted, the push on advertising was probably more from MS than Asobo as Nick has suggested. But still, I look at the product that I paid for. Sure, it looks great a lot of the time, and in certain areas. BUT, there are LOTS of places where the AI scenery develops blocky scenery. I bought Orbx KSBA the minute it was available, but I can't fly around it because the MS scenery, not the Orbx scenery, is full of small monolithic undeveloped palm trees. It's not just one here or there either, its ALL over Southern Cali. It looks very bad, and ruins the immersion for me. I also do not like the blocky bridges and special scenery items like dockside cranes. I think it's a step backward in visuals. And what about all the scenery that is underwater? Also, while the weather effects look fabulous, the weather itself provides very little effect. There is very little wind effect on the aircraft, and it rarely changes direction in my experience. Also, I don't like that there is no way to get a weather report for your area when running live weather. And, no opening aircraft doors? It is simple features like that that make me agree with Mawson about MSFS taking a few steps backward in some basic areas. And lets talk about the infamous lack of a screenshot key. With such great visuals, you would think a simple screenshot key would have been a no-brainer. But, for some inexplicable reason, we have had to come up with other ways like the Windows Key & Prt-Scrn to paste to the Windows clipboard, then paste into an image app. I mean, that is not 2020 intuitive if you ask me. Overall, the default aircraft are some of the best I have seen in a flight sim, at least the GA ones. They look great. But, they are boring to fly, especially with the aforementioned minimal wind effects. Now, I had none of the install problems that some people had. I have very high bandwidth with no data cap, and MSFS installed for me without a hitch in under two hours. I have only flown it with all the live stuff turned on, so all the scenery I am seeing, in it's blocky glory, is live download scenery. And, yes I have nice size rolling caches setup. And, I am not even one of the camera system haters. It's different, sure, but I got my Xbox controller setup easily to control the drone and it works great. But, everything that I think is good about MSFS is tied to visuals, and everything I think is not good is tied more to immersion and simulation. See the trends? In summary, MSFS is simply not fun for me to fly. It does not satisfy my simulation needs, and that is why I am into simming in the first place. Yes, I love eye candy, and I want my sim to look good, but I want it to look good and ADD to the immersion, not detract from it. Anyhow, there's how I feel. I was not on the MSFS hype train before it was released, nor was I one that was hating on it either. I stayed out of all the debate and just watched and listened. I bought MSFS on release with a very open view of it. My expectations were not sky high. I did expect it to at least offer what FSX and P3D release versions offered as far as features go. I do not think it achieved that at all. It does have great potential, but the problem is I don't know if the developers will change some of the things that I think are problems, mainly the blocky trees and scenery, as that seems like a very deep part of the graphics system. But, it's one I just cannot get past. Taking off from such a beautiful piece of scenery work like Orbx KSBA only to see hundreds of blocky, undeveloped trees all around the scenery area just kills it for me. So, I am happily enjoying my P3D v4.5 installation with GOBS of good looking Orbx scenery, loads of great A2A planes, more realistic weather effects and an overall better simulation experience for me. And when I want to snap a screenie of the great visuals I see, I just hit the trusty V key and continue flying Maybe MSFS will be better suited to my tastes, but I don't see that happening for some time. Cheers! Landon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metthos Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 20 hours ago, Ron Attwood said: But you bought it anyway? No I did not. I will wait and see how they develop this thru updates. I am in no hurry. I can see from the streaming and uploaded clips to YT that they did not fix a lot of the reported bugs during Beta. The general opinion among the tester was that the release was to early. I think with time this will be better but I also think that they should have fixed the bugs they where aware of before they released it and took customers money. MS is a commercial company and we should demand more from such a company than what the FS community are demanding. That is not unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Attwood Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Landon, I just did a flight in SoCal and you are right about blocky trees. But you've got to be looking specially for them. Except on one airport I landed at, a default un-tarted up K~BO on the coast near Burbank-ish. There were a couple of big green lumps. I put them down as Californian street art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Attwood Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 12 hours ago, Nick Cooper said: Hello, in all fairness, Asobo themselves have not "over-hyped" the simulator. That has been very capably done by those outside the development team whose motives were various but all based on invention and supposition, rather than fact. This provided a torrent of free publicity for the product but an equal torrent of unrealistic expectation which has, in some cases, now turned into disappointment. There ya go again, talkin' sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilstorm Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 As long as Asobo is committed to improving the sim over time, I am happy with it all. I'm holding off on buying it until I can use it which for me means VR support but knowing whats to come and the support of the addon community, when this sim matures, it is going to be a great platform to sim in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper31 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Ron Attwood said: Landon, I just did a flight in SoCal and you are right about blocky trees. But you've got to be looking specially for them. Except on one airport I landed at, a default un-tarted up K~BO on the coast near Burbank-ish. There were a couple of big green lumps. I put them down as Californian street art. Well then Ron, we must be flying in two different sims, because they are all over anywhere I fly in the SoCal area, big and small. If I take of from KSBA, I can look out every window and see more than I can count. Now don't get me wrong, up in the PNW the trees are looking proper all over the place. Same in Europe. I do believe it's mostly the palm trees that are all over the place in SoCal that are the problem in my MSFS copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Attwood Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Do you use 'Ultra'? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mawson Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 7 hours ago, Metthos said: No I did not. I will wait and see how they develop this thru updates. I am in no hurry. I can see from the streaming and uploaded clips to YT that they did not fix a lot of the reported bugs during Beta. The general opinion among the tester was that the release was to early. I think with time this will be better but I also think that they should have fixed the bugs they where aware of before they released it and took customers money. MS is a commercial company and we should demand more from such a company than what the FS community are demanding. That is not unreasonable. I was an Alpha tester and I bought it because of Fear of missing out even though I was disappointed with the functionality of the sim from day 1 ( I accepted the bugs, these were never an issue in my judgement of the sim). I now basically use the drone function to sight see as before Covid I was in the top 1% of Frequent Flyers and I like to be an eagle and fly over the places where I have been and will never see again because of this Covid. To me it is just another version of Google Earth flight sim until it has what I want being helicopters and VR and hopefully a better flight model for helicopters than X Plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper31 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Ron Attwood said: Do you use 'Ultra'? Just a thought. Yes, I use Ultra on most of my settings....not all, but most, Vegetation and Trees being one of them. Trust me Ron, I have gobs of trees...just a lot of them in the SoCal area are monolithic blocks. I have a very capable PC, I9900k @ 5.0Ghz, 2080Ti and 32Gb RAM with MSFS installed on a 1TB M.2 NVMe ssd.. It's a system that I built and has been stable at 5 Ghz for over a year now. Still, I don't expect the world from it, so I am running in 2k with a mixture of Ultra and High settings. I am not an MSFS hater...I wish it would work the way I want it to, but it just does not. P3D v4.5 works better for me right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Attwood Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 In the words of the Blair creature "Things will only get better" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenicoll Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 Members 346 1,729 posts Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK #3 Posted Sunday at 08:58 PM On 8/30/2020 at 6:26 PM, olderndirt said: Methinks MSFS has acquired a very large group of paying beta testers - how clever is that? When did you ever buy a piece of software that was 100% finished on release? When did you ever buy ANYTHING that was 100% finished on release? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfko Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, davenicoll said: When did you ever buy ANYTHING that was 100% finished on release? My wife thinks her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenicoll Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, wolfko said: Hm, my wife? Na, I got her for free. I am afraid relationships are always a WIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenicoll Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 Reading all of the above posts i can't help thinking one thing.. If all the issues raised had been sorted prior to release or this tree was wrong or that buiding is not right had been corrected (Will that ever be the case?) Are we not then looking for the perfect sim on Day 1... What do we think 3rd party post release devlopers bring to the table?...A perfect sim = No 3rd party content... Just my opinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabs79 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 12 hours ago, Sniper31 said: Yes, I use Ultra on most of my settings....not all, but most, Vegetation and Trees being one of them. Trust me Ron, I have gobs of trees...just a lot of them in the SoCal area are monolithic blocks. I have a very capable PC, I9900k @ 5.0Ghz, 2080Ti and 32Gb RAM with MSFS installed on a 1TB M.2 NVMe ssd.. It's a system that I built and has been stable at 5 Ghz for over a year now. Still, I don't expect the world from it, so I am running in 2k with a mixture of Ultra and High settings. I am not an MSFS hater...I wish it would work the way I want it to, but it just does not. P3D v4.5 works better for me right now What you're seeing is just the downside of relatively low res photogrammetry as opposed to custom modeled cities or even custom autogen. I agree with you that Santa Barbara looks way better in the P3D KBSA package than it does in MSFS 2020. Photogrammetry has the advantage of depicting every single object accurately but depending on the resolution and quality of the photos it is based on shapes of objects can look massively distorted and unnatural. It's quite good for easy rectangular shapes like buildings, but organic objects like trees and shrubs justice look like blobs of green or in the case of Santa Barbara like basalt blocks in a volcanic area. The good looking palm trees in other regions are autogen trees, not photogrammetry made trees. There's a promotional video where the guys from Asobo talk about how they integrated Bing Maps into the the sim, and in a brief section of the video you can see how the Bing Maps Guys manually edit the building shapes acquired by photogrammetry to correct obvious flaws and distorted textures, and depending of how much of this correction is put into the source data you'll get better results than from the raw data. I guess Santa Barbara has seen little of those manual corrections, the pier looks especially awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper31 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 37 minutes ago, fabs79 said: What you're seeing is just the downside of relatively low res photogrammetry as opposed to custom modeled cities or even custom autogen. I agree with you that Santa Barbara looks way better in the P3D KBSA package than it does in MSFS 2020. Photogrammetry has the advantage of depicting every single object accurately but depending on the resolution and quality of the photos it is based on shapes of objects can look massively distorted and unnatural. It's quite good for easy rectangular shapes like buildings, but organic objects like trees and shrubs justice look like blobs of green or in the case of Santa Barbara like basalt blocks in a volcanic area. The good looking palm trees in other regions are autogen trees, not photogrammetry made trees. There's a promotional video where the guys from Asobo talk about how they integrated Bing Maps into the the sim, and in a brief section of the video you can see how the Bing Maps Guys manually edit the building shapes acquired by photogrammetry to correct obvious flaws and distorted textures, and depending of how much of this correction is put into the source data you'll get better results than from the raw data. I guess Santa Barbara has seen little of those manual corrections, the pier looks especially awful. I understand what's going on with the photgrammetry tech of the trees, and that is exactly the problem I am having...I don't think it's working very well everywhere. And in a scenic area as popular as the Santa Barbara and SoCal area, that is more of a major problem. If the tech is going to depict trees as such, than I will be having a hard time with it. I don't want my state of the art flight sim to look like a mixture of Minecraft and a great looking sim scene. I have watched a ton of Asobo developer videos and YouTube videos on MSFS since it's release. I've gone back and watched all of the pre-release developer videos. I understand what is happening with the photogrammetry, and the custom autogen. I mean, the palm trees that were placed in the Orbx KSBA scenery don't look like monolithic basalt trees (good analogy btw), they look like nice palm trees. So, I know it's possible in the sim. But for all the millions of photgrammetry trees around the MSFS globe that don't look right, that is hard for me to look at. And I am a GA sim flyer, not a tube flyer, so the down low stuff matters even more to me. Look, I appreciate you trying to break it down for me, but I already understand what is at work. I simply don't enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersasquatch Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 I play on medium settings and I prefer the autogen landscapes in MSFS than the otherworldly Photogrammetry when it includes the trees and shrubs. Seeing what they did with the autogen landscapes im sure if they put effort into it they could use similar tech to cull the photogrammetry flora and replace it with their autogen flora. Its a tall order but their algorithms are very impressive. For example, when i fly out of Tacoma Narrows, on one side to the east on the peninsula, there is beautiful autogen forests everywhere, but when you cross the narrows towards Tacoma proper you see all these black pyramidal LOD artifacts that are actually supposed to be trees that are very conspicuous next to the relatively good renderings of the buildings. If they could find a way to combine the technologies then I think they would have a much more seamless graphics transition in many cases. The photogrammetry is pretty cool in downtown areas in large cities, but looks really out of place when it comes to anything with trees. Another example is Mont St Michel, it looks great from afar and the building up close, but you get close you cannot tell the rocks from the trees, and it just all blurs together like a blob. Different areas look like they are from different sims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigeaglefire Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 for goodness sake, if you cannot find the $value in MSFS - simply do not pursue further, personally, getting huge rewards already from MSFS (& yes, addons - & i laugh London & Moscow added to my MSFS library, who would of thought?)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersasquatch Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 After looking at it again I think that the trees in the photogrammetry areas arent bad, they definitely do have the algorithms tuned to pick up most of the trees... So I cant really pick out exactly what is off between autogen areas and photo areas. I could also be that the photo areas seems to be rendered in much more discrete blocks, and at least at medium settings the LOD distance makes the pop in very jarring. But thats the price of playing on an older computer. Ive been super impressed with this sim, and i just recently was able to get a steady 50+ fps just about everywhere including cities on an RX580, the price for that is I cant push high end or ultra. I had to do some very unintuitive adjustments to optimize the game. (lets just say you really have to give priority to the background processes MS is using. I think the ambitiousness of this game was going to bring out a lot of issues, but overall Id still say i think they built a pretty solid foundation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Howie Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 On 8/31/2020 at 6:07 PM, Nick Cooper said: Hello, in all fairness, Asobo themselves have not "over-hyped" the simulator. That has been very capably done by those outside the development team whose motives were various but all based on invention and supposition, rather than fact. This provided a torrent of free publicity for the product but an equal torrent of unrealistic expectation which has, in some cases, now turned into disappointment. i completely disagree with this notion Asobo did nothing. The video series by Asobo was very clear on what this sim was “to bring” to the “simulation” world. Video 1. Aircraft with flight and handling approved and tested by real pilots with accurate systems blah blah blah. Asobo did hype the product then others hyped it to even higher levels. The reality is its poorly developed and despite that it still at some times looks incredible, at others it looks far worse than either P3D and xplane. But despite looks it still has a terrible engine model for jets and turboprops, the flight model is highly unrealistic ie their version of element theory generates highly inaccurate motion due turbulence etc. Asobo hyped again in video the “amazing” flight model where individual surfaces can effect motion etc in their vid on aerodynamics. Other than Asobo a pile of “influencers” all with less aeronautical experience than it took me to go solo 35 years ago took it upon themselves to hype this product far beyond its actual capability. During the Alpha an Beta the real world pilots where posting time and again on flight model, handling, engine model issues. For instance both the Turbojet and Turboprop models are completely incorrect. It was like Asobo was more interested in the hype than the reality of how flawed the sim is as a simulation and started to believe they didnt need to fix its problems. So we are here now with a game not a simulation and its going to take years to fix if its fixed at all. A huge opportunity lost to do it right or close to right. But Asobo stoked the hype flames video after video... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigeaglefire Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 3 hours ago, Darren Howie said: But despite looks it still has a terrible engine model for jets and turboprops, the flight model is highly unrealistic ie their version of element theory generates highly inaccurate motion due turbulence etc. must admit, have not got down to the fine details of published ‘1000 points of aerodynamic data’, most curious as to what is actually happening ‘aerodynamically’ in-sim, but still happy with AUD$99 spent on the basic version & hopefully it improves over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killingjoke28336 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 I turned on the Legacy model for the airliners. Much more fun to play. I'm a gamer not a simmer so I don't care about flight dynamics that much. Scenery is great, can't wait for more airports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Well I will be buying it pretty soon some bugs and all....who cares!! Patches will obviously come out in due course. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Attwood Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 I wonder if Asobo/Microsoft scour the forums looking for all the talent that could have/would have done thing so much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Howie Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 21 hours ago, craigeaglefire said: must admit, have not got down to the fine details of published ‘1000 points of aerodynamic data’, most curious as to what is actually happening ‘aerodynamically’ in-sim, but still happy with AUD$99 spent on the basic version & hopefully it improves over time. I think its more "whats not" happening in the game. The turboprop?turbojet engine model is reversed where engines are temp limited on the ground and torque limited in flight at altitude. With the PT6 your well clear of temp limits on the ground up to 35-40C with "most" models. As the air is dense you have plenty of air for fuel to burn in keeping temps at high torque settings well ie 30C below red lines. As you climb air density reduces meaning less air is around to burn meaning to generate the same torque and torque reduces on the climb the engine gets closer and closer to redline. Right now in the PT6 you overtemp on take off and you get further away from redline on the climb and exactly the same issue with the jets. A turbofan will only get near redline on take off with max thrust minimal airflow situation. Its strange right now the engine model works in reverse of reality. On turbulence go have a look at one of the weather video's on YT. Watch the aircraft randomly jump about its almost like they forgot to add any kind of momentum/inertia model to its movement. Now xplanes flight model has some holes like ground handling which is still quite poor but of P3D/Xplane and msfs its "feel" of the aircraft flowing through the aie is to me easily the best in any sim. It just feels the way it does in a real aircraft. Aeroplanes dont jump about like Godzilla has it by the wingtip the move like say you do in a fast flowing river riding the bumps, corrected by its inbuilt stability aerodynamics unless the motion was so large its needs a control input. The lighting in the sim is amazing and i watched the other day while flying around Okinawa as a typhoon past by the huge seas running. They could easily make a sailing sim or boating simulator as well from the world they have created. However this is supposed to be a "flight simulator" and if it cant simulate flight to any degree of accuracy relative to P3D and xplane plus DCS it just becomes redundant very quickly. Combine that with performance issues with "default" aircraft that are very poor at best and limited in scope can you imagine what will happen to performance when a CPU intensive addon arrives one day "if" MS relent and allow devs to access areas of the sim currently locked off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigeaglefire Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Darren Howie said: if it cant simulate flight to any degree of accuracy relative to P3D and xplane plus DCS it just becomes redundant very quickly. the choice is yours alone, Darren, i have all the flight sims you mention & more, MFS is now another really cool sim (& of course improvements are down the line), i'll go so far to say that MFS is the best 'bang for buck' flight sim $purchase i have made so far. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.