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EU Netherlands TrueEarth - alpha shots!


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18 hours ago, Hans Bodde said:

Please tell us you've also modelled the Glider sites in NL?! I fly from Nistelrode airfield, and it's never been modelled before :(

 

There's probably about 10 which just have 1 or 2 square buildings, a strip and a windsock. (like Malden, Terlet, Lemelerveld, Haemstede, Langevelderslag, and ofcourse Niselrode :) )

 

Don't forget about Biddinghuizen gliderfield. This is the closest to my home.

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5 minutes ago, Matthijs said:

I'm more curious about the performance. Because this region will feature every house, building, tree, mast, power line, windmill, etc. in 3D.



 

 

So does NL2000 and their FPS isn't bad. What concerns me more is the VAS usage which will be huge. One of the benefits of landclass over photoscenery is a much lower VAS usage, for that reason I would have prefered landclass.

 

Also, maybe they can give some screenshots of the borders with Belgium and Germany to see how the photoscenery in the Netherlands blends with the landclass abroad. Is it an obvious line like NL2000 or is it more smooth?

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21 hours ago, mburkhard said:

Not a fan of COMPLETE photoreal coverage. Landclass based is just fine, with some local photoreal coverage for important stuff. I want to be able to fly this with airliners too. The amount of data this requires will be huge, with a tremendous strain on the overall system.

 

My concerns exactly. What they got now is just the same as NL2000, only difference is that NL2000 is free. But a landclass-based area of the Netherlands would absolutely be welcome!

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1 minute ago, PatrickZZ said:

 

My concerns exactly. What they got now is just the same as NL2000, only difference is that NL2000 is free. But a landclass-based area of the Netherlands would absolutely be welcome!

No, no landclas, no repetetive scenery please, had enough of that! 

With all respect to the NL2000 guys and the fantastic job they have been doing over the years I must say the Orbx version look so much more up to date. That said, hopefully one will be able to use some of the NL2000 stuff like their AI traffic. They have a great GA and commercial addon package. 

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48 minutes ago, mikced76 said:

No, no landclas, no repetetive scenery please, had enough of that! 

With all respect to the NL2000 guys and the fantastic job they have been doing over the years I must say the Orbx version look so much more up to date. That said, hopefully one will be able to use some of the NL2000 stuff like their AI traffic. They have a great GA and commercial addon package. 

 

Amen to that! I hate landclass with those clearly cut off textures and those roads and waters running straight through them... It's as if someone cut up a map and threw it all over the place. Now I am also not a fan of 'old school photoreal' which usually is completely flat and offers no seasons etc. and which often looks badly colored... which is why I usually told myself to get over it and enjoy what was there (PNW, FTX Norway and since a while I even liked Germany South), but THIS... this is what I have been waiting for! I can entertain myself for a long, long time with a small country like the Netherlands and when PNW has been released I can keep myself entertained for years (as I have done before). So yes, I am happy Orbx didn't do a landclass version of the Netherlands: that would have looked horrible. 

 

And yes, I think FTX Netherlands will blow NL2000 out of the water.

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29 minutes ago, J van E said:

And yes, I think FTX Netherlands will blow NL2000 out of the water.

 

That's what I think as well. Except for the airports. I think NL2000 has them modelled better than the Orbx region upgraded airports. It would be very nice if we could use the NL2000 airports in FTX Netherlands.

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Well said J van E. I have also ”tolerated” if you will landclass over the many years (30) in this hobby. ”Tolerated” and accepted because there was nothing else available really. As you say the photoreal products were flat and dull without seasons or autogen. I believe Switzerland pro was my first area that felt a bit ok with both winter and summer textures. Orbx Netherlands will be exciting, hope it will blend well eith Flytampa and hopefully we will see some high quality Orbx Holland airports as well.

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On 10/29/2017 at 10:55 AM, John Venema said:

This incredible region will feature every house, building, tree, mast, power line, windmill, industrial area and wind farm in the entire country in 3D and perfectly annotated and positioned.

 

Many POIs.

Every water body.

Every airport upgraded. 

5 Seasons.

Excellent news John. I am sure many of us would love to see just one screen shot of this scenery in winter to see how photoscenery can look with snow on the ground. Would you mind posting one or two winterscapes?

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Hi Hans Bodde, PatrickZZ or?

 

Chris Clack and I are doing the airports for Netherlands and we will be fine with adding the glider airports.  What we need is the name and locations (in Lat and Long) of those airfields that you would like to see included.  I've found like Malden , Terlet, Lemelerveld , Haemstede, Langevelderslag, and Niselrode but not any others (PatrickZZ, if found several locations around Biddinghuizen that "could" be the one you fly out of but without a positive location I'm stuck.

 

Please help Chris and I on this. A new thread would probably be called for so as not to clutter up this one.

 

Cheers, Neil

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Awesome.  Every Airport upgraded.  Neat.  What is that airport in the 3rd screenshot?  It looks interesting.

 

22 hours ago, John Venema said:

Yes we do plan to do a photoreal PNW (excluding Canadian area) for FSX/P3D as well. Firstly however we will tackle it in AFS2.

 

Will the photoreal PNW be sold separately or will it just be a free update?

 

Thanks

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23 hours ago, J van E said:

This one for example would have looked absolutely horrible with landclass: now it simply looks perfect!

 

NL_PR_014.jpg

 

Boy, am I happy. 

Welcome back to the former JvanE. Norway was a while back so good to see you enthused again. ^_^

You're correct though - this looks fantastic.

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1 hour ago, caleb1 said:

Awesome.  Every Airport upgraded.  Neat.  What is that airport in the 3rd screenshot?  It looks interesting.

 

 

That airport, Caleb, is Amsterdam Airport, as known as Schiphol (EHAM). Rwy 18L is right ahead of you.

When you have good eyes and you look carefully, my sailing boat has a berth at that lake in the distance, The Westeinderplassen. ;-)

 

Cheers Fred

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1 hour ago, Neil Hill said:

Hi Hans Bodde, PatrickZZ or?

--

 

Please help Chris and I on this. A new thread would probably be called for so as not to clutter up this one.

 

Cheers, Neil

That's quite extaordinary! Thanks. I'm just going to put a bunch in here. Feel free to move it, I'm too new to the forum to know where to put it...

 

Biddinghuizen: https://www.google.nl/maps/place/52°25'43.6"N+5°40'22.8"E/@52.4287883,5.6708023,463m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m13!1m6!3m5!1s0x0:0x8471370826aed9f7!2sZweefvliegclub+Flevo!8m2!3d52.4264685!4d5.6832895!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d52.4287853!4d5.6729913

 

Terlet:

https://www.google.nl/maps/place/52°03'43.1"N+5°55'10.8"E/@52.0619742,5.9175341,458m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m14!1m7!3m6!1s0x47c7bb232a77b8cb:0xb76fb657bda5bada!2sTerlet!3b1!8m2!3d52.0588214!4d5.9409502!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d52.0619713!4d5.9196783

Terlet has multiple strips: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw3QVPBFixldRFowdVhENEVhcjg

 

Malden: https://www.google.nl/maps/place/51°47'07.1"N+5°52'52.3"E/@51.7853028,5.8793307,399m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m14!1m7!3m6!1s0x47c7092cc43c592f:0x5824a1da0f7cb490!2sMalden!3b1!8m2!3d51.7832872!4d5.8533248!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d51.7852996!4d5.8811882

 

Nistelrode: https://www.google.nl/maps/place/51°41'00.7"N+5°32'53.3"E/@51.6835183,5.5459373,471m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m13!1m6!3m5!1s0x47c6e2f41153ffa5:0xa05af465237d0e44!2sAeroclub+Nistelrode!8m2!3d51.6833081!4d5.5533558!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d51.6835146!4d5.5481264

 

Venlo: https://www.google.nl/maps/place/51°21'49.5"N+6°12'55.4"E/@51.3637533,6.2131953,474m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m13!1m6!3m5!1s0x47c75a71eb905059:0x60b217aa2764523e!2sVenlo+Eindhoven+Zweefvliegclub!8m2!3d51.3602917!4d6.2168959!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d51.3637498!4d6.2153841

 

Schinveld: https://www.google.nl/maps/place/50°58'52.9"N+6°00'06.4"E/@50.9813654,5.9995793,478m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m9!1m2!2m1!1szweefvliegveld+schinveld!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d50.9813618!4d6.0017679

 

Haemstede: https://www.google.nl/maps/place/51°42'38.1"N+3°42'40.2"E/@51.7105946,3.7094735,364m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m9!1m2!2m1!1szweefvliegveld+haemstede!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d51.7105917!4d3.7111659

 

Langevelderslag: https://www.google.nl/maps/place/52°17'52.1"N+4°30'44.0"E/@52.2978063,4.5100359,464m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m13!1m6!3m5!1s0x47c5ea6a0468da93:0x5c8a1d5a41c39f4d!2sKennemer+Zweefvlieg+Club!8m2!3d52.296226!4d4.50628!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d52.297803!4d4.5122197

 

Axel: https://www.google.nl/maps/place/51°15'19.7"N+3°53'27.4"E/@51.2554613,3.8887583,476m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m13!1m6!3m5!1s0x47c38038a5033387:0x2071e73b33a6632f!2sEZAC!8m2!3d51.2563522!4d3.893608!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d51.2554582!4d3.8909468

 

Castricum: https://www.google.nl/maps/place/52°32'12.1"N+4°37'23.6"E/@52.536692,4.6219167,278m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m13!1m6!3m5!1s0x47c5f6d0bdfe526b:0x25c50a4f6fee50be!2sGlidersite+EZZC+Castricum!8m2!3d52.5368535!4d4.6232386!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d52.53669!4d4.6232328

 

Noordoostpolder: https://www.google.nl/maps/place/52°32'12.1"N+4°37'23.6"E/@52.536692,4.6219167,278m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m13!1m6!3m5!1s0x47c5f6d0bdfe526b:0x25c50a4f6fee50be!2sGlidersite+EZZC+Castricum!8m2!3d52.5368535!4d4.6232386!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d52.53669!4d4.6232328

 

Lemelerveld: https://www.google.nl/maps/place/52°28'04.4"N+6°19'60.0"E/@52.4678802,6.3311333,463m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m13!1m6!3m5!1s0x47c7e4806d6fef67:0xeafd2592b08ce052!2sAero+Club+Salland!8m2!3d52.4654685!4d6.3334278!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d52.4678767!4d6.3333225

 

Wieringermeer: https://www.google.nl/maps/place/52°49'14.3"N+4°55'36.7"E/@52.8206322,4.9246663,459m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m13!1m6!3m5!1s0x47cf4cdafb87f821:0x51d18242f142fb7d!2sZweefvliegclub+Den+Helder!8m2!3d52.82324!4d4.932786!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d52.8206287!4d4.9268546

 

I've checked the above for being active and for spelling errors. All other gliding clubs - to my best knowledge- are on normal GA fields, military fields or closed field like Soesterberg.

 

Kind regards,

 

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3 minutes ago, Hans Bodde said:

That's quite extaordinary!

 

It sure is! How cool that we can tell what we would like to see in the sim! :)

 

4 minutes ago, Hans Bodde said:

or closed field like Soesterberg.

 

Talking about wishes: I do hope the closed Soesterberg airport will be modelled, including the brand new museum there. Not only because there are indeed gliders there but also because it is the airport closest to where I live. ;) If there are more gliders taking off from closed airports you might consider adding the information to your post anyway. Grijp je kans! ^_^

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Hi J van E,

 

Yes, Soesterberg  is in the list of airports I've done.  Maybe we can convince someone to do that new museum, I just add the groundwork and generic buildings that match as close as I can find.  There are 25 airports, many of them old military.

 

Cheers, Neil

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Hi mikced,

 

I'll pass your request to Chris who will be doing the detail/AI work for these airports.  However I'm not in favor of leaving out all statics as I think they add interest for all those that aren't into adding their own but we'll see what we can do.

 

@ Hans Bodde: You're Castricum and Noordoostpolder are the same location, I think perhaps Noordoostpolder is incorrect.

 

Cheers, Neil

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Due to the fact that the Netherlands are just around the corner (NRW borders directly with the Netherlands), I can imagine that I will get the scenery. A short trip to "The 2 brothers of Venlo" or to the beach in Zandvoord? No problem, also Rotterdam is pleased about a visit :)

The Dutch are a likeable people to me - I would like to visit there.

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1 hour ago, Neil Hill said:

Hi mikced,

 

 

@ Hans Bodde: You're Castricum and Noordoostpolder are the same location, I think perhaps Noordoostpolder is incorrect.

 

Cheers, Neil

Here you go! https://www.google.nl/maps/place/52°41'03.8"N+5°54'39.1"E/@52.6843972,5.9086623,714m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m13!1m6!3m5!1s0x47c87b7f6681c6cf:0x403c5dffa79fbfc9!2sZweefvliegclub+Noordoostpolder!8m2!3d52.684908!4d5.9047303!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d52.6843939!4d5.9108509

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3 hours ago, Neil Hill said:

Hi J van E,

 

Yes, Soesterberg  is in the list of airports I've done.  Maybe we can convince someone to do that new museum, I just add the groundwork and generic buildings that match as close as I can find.  There are 25 airports, many of them old military.

 

Cheers, Neil

 

Good to know Soesterberg is there! This way I can check the state of my garden within a few minutes after take off. ;) Hopefully someone can make that museum. It's a military museum with lots of planes so it would suit the addon. It's a nice POI!

 

Great to see the devs here and that we can suggest things and give info! 

 

1 hour ago, Hans Bodde said:

Here you go! 

 

You must be pretty happy too with this opportunity! ;) I hope that by the time FTX Netherlands comes to AFS2 the gliders are able to start on the ground. Or maybe I should get a P3D glider for this region. Any suggestions?! The thing is: I can see gliders above Soesterberg when I am sitting on the couch in my living room! Would be cool to (sort of) sit in one of those gliders myself! :) (Sorry, this is going off topic...)

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13 hours ago, J van E said:

 

I am also curious. I do know that photoreal addons for Switserland for other sims take around 15 to 20 GB. So I suppose the Netherlands, being similar in size, will be at least that. If seasonal textures actually mean 4 extra complete sets of textures you might be looking at 75 to 100 GB already. Add a few GB for the buildings and vector data etc. and well... So yes, I am very curious how much space I will have to save. ;) 

I'd be happy to download a 100GB DLC. It's not much a problem nowadays.

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Will the NL2000 air bases work with this product, or is that up to NL2000 to make them work? Their air bases are some of the nicest military bases around for those of us who fly military aircraft in FSX. Having said that, I understand why Orbx doesn't model them, probably not much ROI for the investment compared to commercial airfields and it's probably much more difficult to get accurate details.

 

That said, I'll be getting this product either way. :)

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8 hours ago, J van E said:

 

Would be cool to (sort of) sit in one of those gliders myself! :) (Sorry, this is going off topic...)

 

I'm stoked! It would be great to do my overland training in AFS2, in VR, over my home turf! As to flying from Soesterberg, I'm not sure if they do passenger flights (think not) but this is the club: https://www.acvz.nl/ At my club we do passenger flights. https://www.acnistelrode.nl

 

 

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Well, I have no doubt it will look absolutely stunning! And as OOM's are gone since P3D4, I'm not worried about VAS usage either. BUT: What about the size on the harddrive?? I imagine it could easily be 50 GB at a high resolution. And I'm a bit concerned about the loading times. For several years I loved PR scenery, if they were covered with autogen or if it was desert anyway, but loading times and the huge download and install size kept me from using it more and more.

For example: Look at what RWS have done for Greece: It looks stunning on the screenshots, but has about 60 GB of download size. So maybe rather something for specialists for the very region than for "strangers" that just want to discover something new?

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18 hours ago, PatrickZZ said:

 

So does NL2000 and their FPS isn't bad. What concerns me more is the VAS usage which will be huge. One of the benefits of landclass over photoscenery is a much lower VAS usage, for that reason I would have prefered landclass.

 

Also, maybe they can give some screenshots of the borders with Belgium and Germany to see how the photoscenery in the Netherlands blends with the landclass abroad. Is it an obvious line like NL2000 or is it more smooth?


Not entirely correct, NL2000 does not place every house etc. in 3D. Just random Autogen with a lot of POI's ;)
So every house means millions of houses all over The Netherlands!

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4 hours ago, Hans Bodde said:

 

I'm stoked! It would be great to do my overland training in AFS2, in VR, over my home turf! As to flying from Soesterberg, I'm not sure if they do passenger flights (think not) but this is the club: https://www.acvz.nl/ At my club we do passenger flights. https://www.acnistelrode.nl

 

 

 

Thanks for the links but sorry, I was talking about flying above Soesterberg and my house in a glider in the sim LOL so not in real life (although it sounds interesting...) so I was wondering if you had a good tip for a glider in P3D. But I see you fly in AFS2 which has some nice gliders by default already.

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11 hours ago, Bonesie85 said:

Can I ask whether you'll be modelling active military airbases as well (Volkel, Leeuwarden, Gilze Rijen, De Kooy, Eindhoven, Woensdrecht)? Will these be created using generic buildings or modelled after the real deal?

 

I think most airports will be created using generic buildings though some bigger ones may get real deal buildings. Up to now most upgraded airports in FTX regions mainly use generic buildings. Neil Hill also posted already "I just add the groundwork and generic buildings that match as close as I can find".

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13 hours ago, Neil Hill said:

Thanks Hans,

 

That works.  That's 14 glider airfields total.

 

Neil

 

Neil, talking about airports in NL, I'm certain Lelystad (EHLE) is included. But do you know that it is currently extended to a much larger commercial internal airport? It will open in April 2019 but construction is well underway now.

 

Jelle

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It looks really good but has anyone noticed the building in the water in the 16th pic from the top? It's on the left at just over half way down, there are three other buildings and the one in the foreground is in the river or canal. I could be wrong but that is what it looks like in the shot.

 

 

image.png

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You are completely right, Ticker7, well spotted!

 

I don't know how to produce a picture from Google Maps, but it is in Amsterdam and the name of the canal is: Westelijk Marktkanaal and the street on the righthand side of the canal is called: Willem de Zwijgerlaan

 

Maybe this helps to locate the spot and place a picture of it.

 

Regards Fred

 

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1 hour ago, Ticker7 said:

It looks really good but has anyone noticed the building in the water in the 16th pic from the top? It's on the left at just over half way down, there are three other buildings and the one in the foreground is in the river or canal. I could be wrong but that is what it looks like in the shot.

 

I've seen more of those errors, not just on this picture, but 1. I guess that's what you get when you use a system to add buildings (I don't think they placed everything by hand for starters) and 2. this is alpha so I suppose real obvious errors will be corrected, if not at release than later in a patch.

 

EDIT
Here's another example of a building partially hanging over water:

NL_PR_005.jpg

 

It's not something that would annoy me totally though: there always will be oddities when placing 3D objects on photoreal. It's inevitable. I also don't think you should take 'every house' too literally: I certainly do not expect my own house to look like it does in real life. 

 

Talking about my house: it seems most houses I see on the picture are 'vrijstaande huizen', standalone houses (how do you say that in English) and I do wonder how Orbx will model the 'rijtjeshuizen' of which there are a LOT in the Netherlands. (All looking different too.) In other words, I am curious how many specific custom Dutch models there are in FTX Netherlands. I'd hate to see my house (and my entire neighbourhood) portrayed as a single house (although I'd love to have one in real life LOL )

Edited by J van E
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