Disappearing ORBX folder? Read on ...

[Voyager]

The whole thing is simple: in one PC (and one license) can be installed Orbx software in any and as many as simulators there fit!

 

 Voyager 

[John Venema]

OK HiFlyer has a 90 day ban as of now. We'll get around to the others in the next few days unless they emerge in this topic first.

 

Anyone else care to defend themselves? We're all ears.

 

To clarify; we DO allow multiple installs of the same product into FSX, FSX:SE and P3DvX on the same PC. As long as it's the same PC.

[Triplane]

8 minutes ago, DesertPilot85 said:

 

Actually, JV posted months ago, that Orbx would turn a blind eye to parallel installations of Orbx products into multiple versions of FSX and P3D, as long as they all reside on the same computer.  In fact, the latest Orbx installers (with P3Dv3 support) even support installing into concurrent boxed FSX and Steam FSX installations.

 

When installing into multiple computers, then yes, Orbx requires a separate license for each computer.

 

Found JV's post on parallel installations on same PC: http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/94456-question-about-licenses/?do=findComment&comment=857676

Thanks. I was a little worried for a minute but I feel much better now. Since P3D V3 came out I don't use FSX much anymore but I'd hate to have to uninstall all the ORBX "stuff".

Doug

[Richard McDonald Woods]

Thank you, JV, for making the important points on licensing terms and conditions. I am 100% behind you in assuring that we all buy legal entitlement to use your fabulous software.

 

[pmb]

4 minutes ago, John Venema said:

To clarify; we DO allow multiple installs of the same product into FSX, FSX:SE and P3DvX on the same PC. As long as it's the same PC.

Clear words, thanks.

 

Kind regards, Michael

[Bruce Hamilton]

2 minutes ago, flaviossa said:

Let´s remember people, what´s wrong is using torrent trackers like TPB and of course downloading their content.  Using TORRENT protocol IS NOT ILEGAL (DCS, Microsoft and other vendors use them a lot) and thus it´s perfectly normal to have utorrent installed in someone computer. I´m saying this because someone implied above that a desktop screen with a utorrent icon means that the guy is pirating stuff.

 

Correct, using Bit Torrent is indeed legal, but places like TPB have led to the consensus that if torrent software is on your computer, you must be a pirate.  Big difference between logging into your FSS account and finding a torrent (not likely to ever happen) and getting it from a known piracy web site like Pirate Bay.

[Jiri Kocman]

7 minutes ago, flaviossa said:

Let´s remember people, what´s wrong is using torrent trackers like TPB and of course downloading their content.

Using TORRENT protocol IS NOT ILEGAL (DCS, Microsoft and other vendors use them a lot) and thus it´s perfectly normal to have utorrent or similar installed in someone computer. I´m saying this because someone implied above that a desktop screen with a utorrent icon means that the guy is pirating stuff.

 

I agree, for example FreeMeshX is distributed via Torrent, but.. Czech Republic authors law says that we can download music or movies as we want (we pay some form of tax for each HDD, memory card, or even toner to printer for that reason). It is not illegal in our country until we do not share this files. Sharing is illegal, download is legal
 

[John Venema]

Correct, the bittorrent protocol is used by Steam, Blizzard, EA and many other large infotainment companies, but in those instances it's all hidden behind client GUIs and other plumbing. In fact in some future versions of FTX Central we will likely implement BT protocols ourselves.

 

But, having the µTorrent client app icon on your desktop is really giving the game away since most legitimate uses of the BT protocol negate the need for such client apps.

 

We're arguing semantics here though. Let's keep commentary less inflammatory and to the point.

[LarryA]

39 minutes ago, DesertPilot85 said:

 

Actually, JV posted months ago, that Orbx would turn a blind eye to parallel installations of Orbx products into multiple versions of FSX and P3D, as long as they all reside on the same computer.  In fact, the latest Orbx installers (with P3Dv3 support) even support installing into concurrent boxed FSX and Steam FSX installations.

 

When installing into multiple computers, then yes, Orbx requires a separate license for each computer.

 

Found JV's post on parallel installations on same PC: http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/94456-question-about-licenses/?do=findComment&comment=857676

 

Thank you J.V. and Doug for posting the link in re guards to parallel installations. May have interpreted the Eula incorrectly? My apologies for making a in correct statement. Should have asked.

 

Thank You

Larry

[uncle_adolph]

24 minutes ago, flaviossa said:

Let´s remember people, what´s wrong is using torrent trackers like TPB and of course downloading their ilegal content.

Using TORRENT P2P protocol IS NOT ILEGAL (DCS, Microsoft and other vendors use them a lot) and thus it´s perfectly normal to have utorrent or similar installed in someone computer. I´m saying this because someone implied above that a desktop screen with a utorrent icon means that the guy is pirating stuff.

 

The guy produced a screen shot of his desktop.....complete with uTorrent shortcut. When asked to produce an order number he disappeared.

 

Having the shortcut was not illegal, true.....but it made it pretty obvious where he'd got the software from.

[jmorvay1971]

1 hour ago, dominique said:

 

I don't doubt your sincerity but those who run Torrent sites are scum, often mafia-type criminals I believe. Not your retarded teens as often thought. Using their facilities because an honest site is down makes them endure and that is depressing, my friend, not that you have  to reload your stuff.

 

I really wish people would stop with Torrent bashing.  Torrent sites do not automatically equate to illegal, and I call serious offense to your usage of the term "mafia-type".  Please think before you type hateful words in a public forum.  If you are an intelligent person who reads the tech trades online, you would know that the technology behind torrents is quite useful in  practical applications.

 

-Jim

[Benny]

ORBX, and/or most other vendor sell their product for the price of an OK meal at an OK restaurant, consume in 2 hours. I already spent countless hours in Pago only. I did a lot of video that ORBX did use on their product page and wile doing so I could fully appreciate the work involve by the developers. This is how I see this hobby of our. I would feel ashamed of not paying for a software and especially a flight simulator one. 

[Michael Copp]

32 minutes ago, John Venema said:

OK HiFlyer has a 90 day ban as of now. We'll get around to the others in the next few days unless they emerge in this topic first.

Anyone else care to defend themselves? We're all ears.

 

Just one point from me.

 

I was one of those people that, years ago, "tried before I bought". Since that time, I've purchased hundreds of dollars (actually, probably well over a thousand dollars) of Orbx products. By now, all of my installed Orbx products have long since been replaced by legitimate versions. However, you can imagine how pissed off I might be if 49 of my 50 installed Orbx products were indiscriminately trashed (and as a result things like my "terrain.cfg" file suddenly being made invalid, etc.) because I had failed to make that 50th product legit.

 

In my opinion, perhaps less of a slash-and-burn, all-or-nothing approach (i.e. just delete the "problem" scenery/sceneries, not the whole kit and caboodle), would be more appropriate.

 

PS- John, If I deserve a ban, you may want to remove me from your LinkedIn network as well (I believe you sent me a networking request a few months ago that I accepted).

 

[dominique]

3 minutes ago, jmorvay1971 said:

I really wish people would stop with Torrent bashing.  Torrent sites do not automatically equate to illegal, and I call serious offense to your usage of the term "mafia-type".  Please think before you type hateful words in a public forum.  If you are an intelligent person who reads the tech trades online, you would know that the technology behind torrents is quite useful in  practical applications.

 

-Jim

 

You would gain in reading the whole thread, maybe, to understand what it is all about.. We are not talking in a vacuum, on the merits or not of a technology but about its wide use to steal software, including OrbX software. The numerous Torrent sites that offers games or any other software on any Google search are often run by criminals in their own land indeed.

[jmorvay1971]

2 minutes ago, dominique said:

 

You would gain in reading the whole thread, maybe, to understand what it is all about.. We are not talking in a vacuum, on the merits or not of a technology but about its wide use to steal software, including OrbX software. The numerous Torrent sites that offers games or any other software on any Google search are often run by criminals in their own land indeed.

Since I made it this far, yes I read the whole thread but your needless use of derogatory words stuck out when I got to your post during the read.  Cite your sources of these claims that criminals run websites with illegal software.  You opened this can of worms.

 

-Jim

[RobC]

Hey JV quick question,

 

 My first Orbx product was purchased from the FSpioltshop on retail DVD, I put it in my sig, along with at least one from the FSS. But I noticed that in your statement you said that the products can ONLY be purchased form FSS?.

 

 Am I still good to go?

 

Thanks man.

 

PS: btw, I see discussions about Torrent programs being throw around in here,  the "Free Download Manager" that I got for downloading the FSS products comes with a Torrent program thing, but you can keep it turned off.

[Nick Cooper]

@ Jim and Dominique

Enough Gentlemen, unless you want the thread to be locked.

[dcongram]

John Venema....

 

I would like to send you a personal message, please.

[Benny]

This whole thread is about one thing, having done that for all ORBX product, it's as simple as that:

 

The FlightSim Store
------------------------------------------------------
Order Number: 424083
Detailed Invoice: https://www.flightsimstore.com/account
Date Ordered: Sunday 15 November, 2015

Products
------------------------------------------------------
1 x IRIS - Aerobatic Series - Prometheus [FSX] (IDS-002) = AUD$22.50
Delivery Option Instant Download
------------------------------------------------------
Sub-Total: $22.50
Total: $22.50

 

The fact that it is NOT a ORBX product was done on purpose to put a bit less tension on this thread 

[Jiri Kocman]

38 minutes ago, ftp2leta said:

ORBX, and/or most other vendor sell their product for the price of an OK meal at an OK restaurant, consume in 2 hours. I already spent countless hours in Pago only. I did a lot of video that ORBX did use on their product page and wile doing so I could fully appreciate the work involve by the developers. This is how I see this hobby of our. I would feel ashamed of not paying for a software and especially a flight simulator one. 

 

Even in our country you get menu with soap and main meal for between 3 and 6 AUD in restaurant, I fully agree with you. ORBX scenery (mostly regions) gives me many hours of fun

[John Venema]

1 hour ago, Michael Copp said:

 

Just one point from me.

 

I was one of those people that, years ago, "tried before I bought". Since that time, I've purchased hundreds of dollars (actually, probably well over a thousand dollars) of Orbx products. By now, all of my installed Orbx products have long since been replaced by legitimate versions. However, you can imagine how pissed off I might be if 49 of my 50 installed Orbx products were indiscriminately trashed (and as a result things like my "terrain.cfg" file suddenly being made invalid, etc.) because I had failed to make that 50th product legit.

 

In my opinion, perhaps less of a slash-and-burn, all-or-nothing approach (i.e. just delete the "problem" scenery/sceneries, not the whole kit and caboodle), would be more appropriate.

 

PS- John, If I deserve a ban, you may want to remove me from your LinkedIn network as well (I believe you sent me a networking request a few months ago that I accepted).

 

 

So forgive one stolen Orbx product versus 49 bought? Not sure how that can be justified no matter your persuasive argument, but the fact is people can go "legit" by reformatting their drives with a fresh Windows (always a good thing to do every 6-12 months anyway) and then only re-installing purchased Orbx products.

 

Oh and I don't use LinkedIn, I should delete my profile as it's not relevant anymore. I certainly don't send networking requests.

[Benny]

5 minutes ago, John Venema said:

reformatting their drives with a fresh Windows (always a good thing to do every 6-12 months anyway) and then only re-installing purchased Orbx products.

 

What about every 4-5 years, ha ha ha.....  Just the thought of having to re-install everything is stopping me from upgrading my rig or moving to P3D...

 

No way OZÉ... I'm even impatient when installing a new 1 gig scenery: open computer, 10 minutes, transfer from USB stick 4 minutes, unzip, 5min, installing, 5 minutes, open FSX, 5 minutes..... so a good 30 minutes before flying ha ha ha

 

Sorry, maybe it' long to load but I'm still in the 30FPS pretty much everywhere so I'm happy with the old I7

 

Ben

[BrianV]

I think this is a good initiative that should be applauded. To try out Orbx products there are free demos of PNW, Iceland and Tasmania. That's how it worked for me with PNW and after that I was hooked. I understand the concern about the cost for some users if they wish to have a lot of Orbx products installed but the same apply to any purchase. You buy what you can afford at any time in the supermarket, in the grocery and likewise in the flightsimstore. 

 

My only question is regarding moving to a new PC and the validity of the licenses if the old PC is being scrapped. I have a new i7 4770k so I so don't expect any change in the next few years, but possibly in 5 years from now I might want to get a new PC and get rid of the old one. Will this be possible when the time comes by transferring licenses from the old to the new PC? Maybe by registering the IP address of the computer onto which the software is installed so that only one is allowed by any user?

 

Thanks!

[Triplane]

Personally, I think the slash-and-burn approach is a good idea. At least it gets peoples attention. Doesn't seem to me that a simple deletion of a single product would get the message across. Sometimes lessons have to be learned the hard way. Pain is often a powerful persuader.

 

Doug

[Michael Copp]

1 minute ago, John Venema said:

So forgive one stolen Orbx product versus 49 bought?

 

Actually, in the scenario I had in my mind I was thinking that ALL the products would have been purchased legitimately, but that the user had just forgotten to update the "tested" product (since it would already be installed). 

 

Regardless, I do think it's a little heavy-handed to have the application delete legitimately paid-for software, especially if that broadsword vs. scalpel approach ends up completely corrupting the users FSX/Prepar3d installation (using the terrain.cfg example I mentioned earlier - unless your deletion procedure sets terrain.cfg entries, etc., back to their original values). As well, I suspect that you may be potentially putting yourself in a little bit of hot water with LM, if (for example) users start bombarding the Prepar3d forums because they think P3D has corrupted itself spontaneously or something.

 

Oh and I don't use LinkedIn, I should delete my profile as it's not relevant anymore. I certainly don't send networking requests.

 

Perhaps someone has access to your LinkedIn user info, as I don't send out requests either. Or perhaps it was some sort of automated request (I've noticed Facebook has started to do something similar).

[Alex Goff]

Nobody will be negatively impacted by having products legitimately purchased  from other vendors besides FSS. The library specifically targets a specific crack implemented by installers distributed through torrents.

 

If the folder is deleted it is only because the library installer had detected the crack. We appreciate and thank all of our supporters whether they purchased from FSS or others :)

[John Venema]

17 minutes ago, BrianV said:

My only question is regarding moving to a new PC and the validity of the licenses if the old PC is being scrapped. I have a new i7 4770k so I so don't expect any change in the next few years, but possibly in 5 years from now I might want to get a new PC and get rid of the old one. Will this be possible when the time comes by transferring licenses from the old to the new PC? Maybe by registering the IP address of the computer onto which the software is installed so that only one is allowed by any user?

 

The license is valid for one PC at a time, so upgrading to a new PC and reinstalling all the Orbx products on it is within the bounds of the EULA as long as you don't keep using Orbx products on the old PC.

[Orgasmatron]

I'd personally like to thank Orbx for taking this approach towards piracy.  It protects my investment as a customer and ensures future investment of license to use Orbx software.  Personally I don't think you can be too hard on pirates, after all if you stole a TV from a store and got caught you'd expect a pretty severe and harsh punishment!

[IvanEdel]

Hello.

What is the limit for reinstallation products if I do only fresh install of Windows or if I am rebuilding a PC completely? 

Thanks.

 

[Marvic]

Well John, protecting ORBX and all the subscribers is well within your right and I'm glad that you are taking back which is not communal property. I paid for my stuff just like the majority users here and am glad that "Piracy" is being taken care of.  Supporting THIEVES is not what the community is about.

[Pete H]

Not that any of this personally affects me, since all my Orbx products are and always have been fully legal, but I've never understood why people want to download Orbx scenery (or any scenery) from "less then legitimate" sources - I've spent more in a single visit to McDonald's than Orbx charge for some of their stunning scenery.

 

Flight sim add-on development is a comparatively very small industry, and if you enjoy flight simming and want it to continue, then you have a responsibility to support the developers by purchasing products legitimately.

[MarkH]

If Orbx's technology and logic are robust then this I suppose this is to be applauded. I expect Orbx has consulted its lawyers about the legality and about the consequences of trashing someone's computer based on a false positive. It would certainly be annoying to find my computer trashed because of some unwitting but innocent infringement of a nuance of the EULA.

[Jiri Kocman]

Just now, MarkH said:

If Orbx's technology and logic are robust then this I suppose this is to be applauded. I expect Orbx has consulted its lawyers about the legality and about the consequences of trashing someone's computer based on a false positive. It would certainly be annoying to find my computer trashed because of some unwitting but innocent infringement of a nuance of the EULA.

 

 

Not sure if anywhere, but in our country, EULA have to not break law even licence stated anything, if EULA will broke law,law have precedence. 

[Jack Sawyer]

I just upgraded my LIBS file and it went smooth as silk on FSX.  I used the FTX Central and no problems here.  Thanks Orbx.  Good idea to flush out the pirates.

 

[Alex Goff]

A false positive in this scenario would be an extraordinary coincidence. It would require the user to have inserted information into their registry for products that do not exist except in the realm of exploits and cracked installers. 

 

It is very easy to detect, and very specific to cracked installers. 

[FLighT]

3 hours ago, mcdonar said:

Thank you, JV, for making the important points on licensing terms and conditions. I am 100% behind you in assuring that we all buy legal entitlement to use your fabulous software.

 

Absolutely agree 100%.

[Longhaul444]

LOL, this topic and comments is funny to say the least. The entire argument hinges on LEGAL copies. Common sense will tell you where you got your "files" from. I do have one question for John about the one PC rule. I have a multi OS portioned HDD with Vista, 7 and 10. I am in the process of moving FSX over to 10 as I was never able to get it to run like it should in 7. However it runs great on vista. How does the license look at same computer but different OS on a separate partition? Will this still be considered the same computer or will the license verification see it as a different computer? I ask this as I am getting ready to purchase several ORBX titles, and really don't want to waste the license on Vista when everything will be over on 10 in the coming months. 

[John Venema]

One license per physical PC. We don't care about partitions with multiple OS's on one box, knock yourself out. 

 

Again we're digging too deep into semantics here. Read the EULA, it's all there in black and white :)

[Michael Copp]

32 minutes ago, Alex Goff said:

It is very easy to detect, and very specific to cracked installers. 

 

Alex, am I to understand that this crack is a "generic" crack that can be used on a number of Orbx products?

 

 

[Longhaul444]

Thank you John.