noted Prepar3d V5.1

[Aussie123]

What do people think about Version 5.1?

 

https://www.prepar3d.com/news/2020/10/117270/

[BrianV]

Looking forward to try with TrueSky now embedded and fully functional, an impressive list of updates, so hope my favorite planes and scenery will be compatible. 

[Orbx Flyer]

The first batch of comments at the other sim site...A****, are truly NOT too encouraging.  I am downloading it...but will not install it right now. One chap said that other than most of the 'beta' visual glitches in E.A. are in fact still there....he also had another 1GB of VR swallowed up.  I only have 8 GB's, and simply can't afford that...I'd CTD in 20 seconds.  Bummer...if true. Will be monitoring the forum as others install and run...

[Sniper31]

I had a feeling that 5.1 update was around the corner and I have been checking sites, but did not see that is was released today. Thanks for posting this. I will go download, install and post back here later with my thoughts.  

[Orbx Flyer]

Deleted by O.P.   I hope most enjoy the new version.

[TymK]

My first impressions are... how do I put it mildly... rather underwhelming. There's still a lot of flickering/pixellation with EA clouds, objects still show through haze/clouds, and so on. I was happy to see that the terrible colors after sunset and before dawn got fixed, but the night lighting is still a mess. I mean, I hate to be negative, but... come on... is that supposed to be "no longer in beta"?

 

 

 

[Orbx Flyer]

22 minutes ago, TymK said:

My first impressions are... how do I put it mildly... rather underwhelming. There's still a lot of flickering/pixellation with EA clouds, objects still show through haze/clouds, and so on. I was happy to see that the terrible colors after sunset and before dawn got fixed, but the night lighting is still a mess. I mean, I hate to be negative, but... come on... is that supposed to be "no longer in beta"?

 

 

 

I've read that as well, besides your post. I guess that E.A. is still a work in progress.

[Larry_R]

Hi folks, 

With EA now the default in v5.1, be prepared for some objects not being suitably obscured by clouds, fog and haze. It's a known and difficult problem. There may (just may) be a work around for devs having to do with material properties in individual models, texture by texture. I hope you can appreciate that implementing work arounds for incremental updates is, how can I say it, problematic.  

 

You may find that with EA turned off the look can be rather garish; one thing you can try is to enable HDR and turn the saturation down, or if your video driver allows it, make a specific color profile for P3D v5. (With EA on, HDR is automatically enabled. )

 

Larry

[cdv0007]

I have serious doubts about the credibility of the LM developers. They promised to solve this problem in the next update. Not only did it not solve it, but it was even more serious, thus shifting the responsibility to the addon developers. This means that a large amount of investment will bring risks, if addon developers do not update, P3D will have no future.

[Orbx Flyer]

WOW....wow....WOW....v5.1 ROCKS!    I have been flying with it for over an hour...started from Orbx KBHB (Bar Harbor),  and there are SO MANY,  updated features, and stark, and actually subtle  improvements to the over all v5.x experience.   For starters...I have never seen my Kodiak Amphib look so good, so (now) truly life-like in the sheen on the metal skin,  PBR is fantastic now...ground shadows...and road traffic....I have never seen so much fabulous traffic, so well populated in any version prior of P3D, let alone FSX!

 

Water and shading (I deleted my SHADER folder, and let the Primary Shaders rebuild) is wonderful...and the waves coming onto shore are much more realistic and pronounced.  I am so glad that I just decided not to take my cues from anybody else...(their threads of disappointment , etc) and decided to install and see 'what's up'.

 

THIS is what v5 should have been released as...and even the E.A....I don't have one artifact of the tree hallows...where I had tons of that, in v5HF2.   The water reflections have been totally reworked, and enhanced,  and I could go on and on...but won't.  I'll only say, that I am VERY impressed by v5.1...and what it has put into the total visual experience.   So...I am anything but disappointed, ...but only now, because I took the plunge, downloaded and did a Client/Content install.

 

The memory DX12 footprint has absolutely been reworked and tweaked...for on my 7.6 DX12 VRam budget...with E.A. on..I am only now at 3.7 GB's..where in v5.HF2, I'd be sitting at 5.7 GB!   I have the sim cracked wide open...with even Ultra textures....and now, not even half of my DX12 Vram budget....

 

Personally, I recommend v5.1...and now...back to my putzing around Bar Harbor....having a blast....for v5.1 blows v5HF2 outta the water....:)

 

Post Edit.... OMG!   The road traffic even at 25 percent is simply out of this world!  Your traffic spawns...and then---> does not wank out on the roadway(s)...cars...trucks...buses...the best it has ever been in a M.S. based FSX engine....   The Devs..did work on this version...in your face...and subtle...

 

Back to my flight ....and for the first time folks...the roads...in Orbx products...are truly populated...and STAY populated.  A first...

[wain71]

I like what I saw last night after the update, having issues with v5 and bad performance, that was before update.... now going through full install, slowly and methodically...hope my performance improves or the PMDG 737 I just bought will have to go into v4.5.....

[Marcus P]

10 hours ago, Larry_R said:

Hi folks, 

With EA now the default in v5.1, be prepared for some objects not being suitably obscured by clouds, fog and haze. It's a known and difficult problem. There may (just may) be a work around for devs having to do with material properties in individual models, texture by texture. I hope you can appreciate that implementing work arounds for incremental updates is, how can I say it, problematic.  

 

You may find that with EA turned off the look can be rather garish; one thing you can try is to enable HDR and turn the saturation down, or if your video driver allows it, make a specific color profile for P3D v5. (With EA on, HDR is automatically enabled. )

 

Larry

Thanks for your info.

 

Does this mean rework for Orbx? I quote a Post from Rob (DEV at LM) just a few minutes ago about this strange object appearances with Fog EA Mode on. Regards Marcus

 

QUOTE Link LINK POST L Support Forum:

Hello,

We are working to fix default content that also has this issue. For 5.1 we made several fixes and plan to incorporate more in the next update. In most cases this is due to the improper use of blend modes with alpha testing content and the z write alpha flag which is no longer supported. If you are using alpha testing, in most cases you don't also need to be blending.

Regards,
Rob McCarthy

[Orbx Flyer]

Deleted...my pics not showing up....

 

Moderator, please delete this post. Thank you...

[Orbx Flyer]

Final comments....the P3D v5.1 Devs...have NAILED flight simulation water, color...depth...hues...have nailed it...the best I have ever seen...and because of what I have now in P3D v5.1   SHAME ON MSFS...SHAME ON IT.... for how water is depicted now in that sim.  P3D has nailed it...for the best simulation of water, waves, color, depth of water around land masses...the best terrain reflection now ever seen, that extends thousands of feet over the surface of the water...from the mountains at the water's edge.

 

P3D Dev's   THANK YOU...from a guy that wants the world's oceans, rivers and lakes, to look as 'real as it gets'.  Folks...you have nailed it in this version!  WOW!

 

Thank you!

 

Mr. Happy.....

[Sniper31]

I am still testing this update out. Short answer from me is there are some good things and some things that still need some work. More detail later.

 

Cheers,

Landon

[cdv0007]

You can go to Shanghai Hongqiao Airport ZSSS to experience the thrill of 50% off FPS brought by large cities.

[cdv0007]

Here is a video of P3D V5.1 to explore the problems of EA.
https://youtu.be/uGCF9Euf-uM

[Sniper31]

So, after further testing, here is my feedback, good and bad, based on experiences ON MY SYSTEM only.

 

The Bad:

-The previous problems with Enhanced Atmospherics(EA) has not seem to be fixed. There are still LOTS of pixelation around objects that intersect the skyline, and even other scenery objects. It very much still feels like a beta. With my sliders ALL to the right, shadows enabled, reflections checked, light options enabled, I don't see much 'OH WOW' factors all with the clouds, sky or 'atmospherics'. 

-There are still scenery objects that haze does not obscure. This sounds like a minor thing, but when flying in hazy conditions and you see these dark object scattered all about your view, it is very immersion breaking. I have read some feedback from others that LM says the problem is more on the developer side, but whatever the cause is, it seems like a lot of finger pointing. 

 

The Good:

-The water and overall shaders with HDR enabled do seem to look better. Granted, this is very subjective as everyone has different color settings on their PC's and monitors. I tweak my monitor and color settings a lot, always trying to achieve a good looking result. Recently, I started using ENVTEX from TOGA to get shader results I am very happy with. Of course, that app has not yet been upgraded for P3D 5.1, so I am back to default P3D shaders. That all said, the default P3D 5.1 shaders, with HDR enabled, look a lot better then they use to, and are more inline with what I had with ENVTEX. 

-Overall, the whole sim seems to perform better and smoother than ever. Now, my system is very robust, with an O/C i9-10850 CPU at 5.3 Ghz, a 2080 Ti with 11Gb Vram, 32 Gb of 4000Mhz RAM and P3Dv5 installed on an NVMe M.2 1TB SSD, so prior to the 5.1 upgrade, P3Dv5 HF2 was already running very well on my system. The big difference I am seeing with the 5.1 update is that I can push almost all sliders FULL right, and not only is the sim NOT slowing down but is running even a little smoother than it was before the update. So, that is a big deal, and for those with lesser systems, it might be an even bigger positive. With most sliders full right, road traffic at 25%, Traffic Global AI at 50% each for commercial and general AI, shadows enabled and set high, 4k textures installed, and running in some of the traditionally hardest FPS hit Orbx areas like NCA and SCA and other hard areas, it is still smooth and nice flying, and my VRAM usage is still around 4.9-5.9. So, that is something.  

 

So there you go. AS with these types of things, your mileage might vary.

 

Cheers!

Landon  

 

 

[Aussie123]

Thanks for your review Landon and All. Interesting reading.

 

In my case, I am quite happy with P3d V4.5HF3 and everything Orbx. My 210 degree surround outside view is terrific with Active Sky, and REX Environment Force running (and Sky Force run once) Nice atmospherics, nice weather transitions.

The only thing I am missing is a decent frame rate on approach to older Orbx airports(<10 in some cases)

Sounds like V5.1 will give me the frames but the atmospherics might not be to my liking. I only have 8Gb of RAM on my RTX 2070 Super.

 

I might make the jump soon but I don't want to burn my bridges as it will be a big job transferring everything. (plus updating FSUIPC etc)

 

Thanks again.

Aussie

 

 

 

[Marcus P]

11 hours ago, Sniper31 said:

-There are still scenery objects that haze does not obscure. This sounds like a minor thing, but when flying in hazy conditions and you see these dark object scattered all about your view, it is very immersion breaking. I have read some feedback from others that LM says the problem is more on the developer side, but whatever the cause is, it seems like a lot of finger pointing. 

@Orbx

There seem to be some problems related to Orbx products which can/should (probably?) be solved by the 3.Party Devs, regarding the DEV Rob from LM.

 

QUOTE FROM THE LM DEV from LM Support forum about the strange Object appearance within P3D V5.X EA mode on.

Hello,

We are working to fix default content that also has this issue. For 5.1 we made several fixes and plan to incorporate more in the next update. In most cases this is due to the improper use of blend modes with alpha testing content and the z write alpha flag which is no longer supported. If you are using alpha testing, in most cases you don't also need to be blending.

Regards,
Rob McCarthy"

 

Any official statements from your side on this?

Lots of products do need an update, now that EA is out of BETA. TE, Orbx Ariports  LOWI (Objetcs and especially the famous Cloud Rock) etc. , Orbx HD Buildings, you name it.

I think we all like to see solutions for this as in this state the products do seem to be not fully compatible, at least visually spoken.

 

A feedback would be welcome.

 

Thanks for your hard work!

 

Marcus

[Ed Correia]

2 hours ago, Marcus P said:

@Orbx

There seem to be some problems related to Orbx products which can/should (probably?) be solved by the 3.Party Devs, regarding the DEV Rob from LM.

 

QUOTE FROM THE LM DEV from LM Support forum about the strange Object appearance within P3D V5.X EA mode on.

Hello,

We are working to fix default content that also has this issue. For 5.1 we made several fixes and plan to incorporate more in the next update. In most cases this is due to the improper use of blend modes with alpha testing content and the z write alpha flag which is no longer supported. If you are using alpha testing, in most cases you don't also need to be blending.

Regards,
Rob McCarthy"

 

Any official statements from your side on this?

Lots of products do need an update, now that EA is out of BETA. TE, Orbx Ariports  LOWI (Objetcs and especially the famous Cloud Rock) etc. , Orbx HD Buildings, you name it.

I think we all like to see solutions for this as in this state the products do seem to be not fully compatible, at least visually spoken.

 

A feedback would be welcome.

 

Thanks for your hard work!

 

Marcus

Can you please identify identify what specific scenery that is you are seeing below?

 

Also , the darkened aircraft, is that how it appears at dawn/dusk periods?

[Marcus P]

8 minutes ago, Ed Correia said:

Can you please identify identify what specific scenery that is you are seeing below?

 

Also , the darkened aircraft, is that how it appears at dawn/dusk periods?

Orbx TE Netherlands is seen below. It are the Orbx TE NETHERLANDS related SimObjects (Houses etc.)

 

Regarding a well known BETA Tester from LM, Rob Ainscough, this should solve the problem:

QUOTE

"trueSKY atmospherics (scattering) I like ... but as pointed out, legacy FSX objects will need to be update to deal with the alpha issues present in both V4 and V5.  As pointed out, I'm not entirely sure how willing existing 3rd party content providers are going to be about adding:

1.  Alpha/Z changes to their objects and reduce the compression complexity so we don't see objects bleed true scatter/visibility/clouds"

 

The dark side of the plane is the shadowed side of the plane. The Sun is located "LIEFT from the plane" if you are sitting in the cockpit and seem normal to me.

The VIEW angle/direction, changing by panning around, does NOT have any influence how objects shimmer through the clouds. 

 

Regards Marcus 

[Nick Cooper]

Hello,

I do see the problem and only when EA is active.

I have written this before and been showered with abuse but

to me, if the developer of a simulator makes a change that affects

not only their own textures but those of addon developers, the

responsibility for rectifying that fault does not lie at the foot of the

external developer.

 

It is my opinion only that the EA mode is still not really ready for public use.

 

Here are some comparisons

 

EA off

 

EA on

 

EA off

 

EA on

 

I am sure your opinion will differ but to me, it looks much better off than on.

Nevertheless, I am sure that we will take a look at the problem.

 

 

 

 

[Marcus P]

2 minutes ago, Nick Cooper said:

Hello,

I do see the problem and only when EA is active.

I have written this before and been showered with abuse but

to me, if the developer of a simulator makes a change that affects

not only their own textures but those of addon developers, the

responsibility for rectifying that fault does not lie at the foot of the

external developer.

 

It is my opinion only that the EA mode is still not really ready for public use.

 

Here are some comparisons

 

EA off

 

EA on

 

EA off

 

EA on

 

I am sure your opinion will differ but to me, it looks much better off than on.

Nevertheless, I am sure that we will take a look at the problem.

 

 

 

 

Nick. Thanks for your reply. I do really understand you and share your opinion also.

 

As a customer I do only want to address issues which I think are related to your product, even if the issue only came up after P3D made changes. Again, sorry for that.

 

Of course I do appreciate it if Orbx would implement the necessary changes to be made to make the product to become "fully" compatible  again so that it also behaves visually like it should.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and I do whish you all the best AND good Health!

 

Marcus

 

 

[Nick Cooper]

Thanks Marcus and the same wishes to you.

Let's see what our developers can do.

[John Dow]

I've lost all my Orbx add on airports that are installed to the sim folder.  The Library sceneries are getting picked up but I just visited YSCB, YBCS and YHBA and it appears they are all the AUV2 airports.

 

I followed Nick's update instructions and I've sync'd the sceneries in OC and even reinstalled YSCB but to no avail.

 

The scenery.cfg file in ProgramData appears to be correct, there are 293 layers and the last modified date is today.

 

ANyone else able to check whether the Orbx airports that are in the Orbx folder in the sim are in fact loading?

[Sniper31]

2 hours ago, John Dow said:

I've lost all my Orbx add on airports that are installed to the sim folder.  The Library sceneries are getting picked up but I just visited YSCB, YBCS and YHBA and it appears they are all the AUV2 airports.

 

I followed Nick's update instructions and I've sync'd the sceneries in OC and even reinstalled YSCB but to no avail.

 

The scenery.cfg file in ProgramData appears to be correct, there are 293 layers and the last modified date is today.

 

ANyone else able to check whether the Orbx airports that are in the Orbx folder in the sim are in fact loading?

John, my Orbx airports are all loading fine in the sim with the new update. My only real problem with the P3D 5.1 update is the one being discussed above by Ed, Nick and Marcus. Everything else is working great in P3Dv5.1 for me. For now, I do as Nick does and fly in P3D without EA turned on, hoping that it will one day be fixed by someone. 

[Rob Ainscough]

Nick ... per Larry's testing, you need to set Z-Write alpha to False.

 

If those objects are not PBR, it would be helpful to users if they were converted to PBR.

 

LM's suggestions to help mitigate the issue:

• Flagging the placements to not batch if you are re-using the same transparent object across large areas. If the objects are close together with no other transparencies between them, this should be okay in most situations.
• Avoid using z write alpha flag, it hasn't been supported for some time.
• Use alpha to coverage / alpha testing instead of transparent blends where appropriate.
• If you are transparent blending a quad over the terrain, make sure it is flagged as a decal with the correct order.

I realize that might be a lot of work for what could be $0 income.

 

Cheers, Rob.

[kevinfirth]

I'd be happy to pay a small upgrade fee for amendment of the necessary objects, rather than have to put up with them bleeding through atmospherics forever more....

[kevinfirth]

50 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Avoid using z write alpha flag, it hasn't been supported for some time

Does this mean that some products have been marketed and sold as v5 compatible when actually they haven't been because some objects have been produced with settings that aren't supported by the simulator?  If that's the case then the onus is on Orbx to correct this IMHO.

[Marcus P]

5 hours ago, Nick Cooper said:

Thanks Marcus and the same wishes to you.

Let's see what our developers can do.

Nick. I would also be happy to pay an upgrade price if Orbx is upgrading to make this look much better as it is in its current state. No one must work for free! P3D V5.1 has so much potential. And we now finally got what we where asking for for years! We should appreciate that and if any fee is necessary then it´s ok!

 

Marcus

[Nick Cooper]

Thanks.

I will refer this upwards.