dominique Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 There is a new trend in airport making, that is to go in ever finer details to render the scenery : interior of the terminal or restaurants for instance. I am amazed by what our favorite designers talent can do ! A lot work goes into it. But, honestly, what I look for in an airport is only what I see from my limited view out of the cockpit (or around the plane in a close external view) and that's it : - What I see on ground and that's why I love all the static/animated stuff OrbX brought us these recent years : passengers, airport crew, animals along the fence, grass, flowers etc. - What I see on the approach (tunnel vision) or in the pattern flight (quick glances) at 1000/1500 feet AGL at a speed between 70 and 120 knots, big stuff mostly parking lots, buildings, billboards, roads and highway interchanges Everything else is wasted on me. I do not complain, mind you, they just are not a deciding factor for me buying the scenery. They may even scare me out if I fear a penalty on the frame rate. It reminds me of airliners having recreated the pax cabin with all the details behind the cockpit. I never go there and really don't care. I suspect that I will be in a minority here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan prewett Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Not here, you can get two many bells and whistles. Less fluff could mean more product. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominique Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 Less fluff could mean more product. that's the idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misha Cajic Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 A large part of the details that we add are for our own fun and experimentation, and testing out new things we can do, and we are usually aware that many of those do not help sell the product much. Also you'll notice if you eliminate all those seemingly redundant details, the overall 'look' and ambience of the scenery is not as good. It's all part of the fun, and trust me barely any of it has frame impacts (I just posted up a bunch of shots proving that) http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/100223-setting-sun-and-night-ops-ksts-sonoma-county-regional-airport-preview-ii/?p=906347 Personally if I'm not exploring and trying new things I'm not really having fun, and that actually results in a lower quality product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominique Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 That is a good argument MIsha that I agree with. You can't do a nice job in anything if you have not some kind of fun doing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripcord Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Good point and good explanation by Misha. There is a creative itch that has to be scratched here, I am sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Hamilton Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 The best part about ORBX doing all the fluff is they make all of it switchable in the control panel. Just untick the radio button and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Goff Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Misha is right on the money. While large international terminals may differ, most regional or smaller terminals will have negligible performance impact. The difference in load between having Homer's terminal interior off/on is a single 1024px texture sheet and <5000 polys. It's nearly equivalent to if we had a control panel toggle to disable a single StaticFlow C172. One other thing to note though, a modeled interior usually puts more focus on the terminal in general. So even if you disable the interior you benefit from the extra attention to detail given on the exterior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominique Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 Misha, Alex, I believe you both that it doesn't impact the framerate. I've got a good machine and it goes through smoothly anyway. But making airports as good as the ones you make, guys, takes you a lot of time. What puzzles me is the time and effort that you put into something that seems totally out of the focus of the simpilots. Now, I understand Misha's argument about doing these things for the fun of it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTigerM Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 A large part of the details that we add are for our own fun and experimentation, and testing out new things we can do, and we are usually aware that many of those do not help sell the product much. Also you'll notice if you eliminate all those seemingly redundant details, the overall 'look' and ambience of the scenery is not as good. It's all part of the fun, and trust me barely any of it has frame impacts (I just posted up a bunch of shots proving that) http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/100223-setting-sun-and-night-ops-ksts-sonoma-county-regional-airport-preview-ii/?p=906347 Personally if I'm not exploring and trying new things I'm not really having fun, and that actually results in a lower quality product. Understood. Since you are exploring Terminal interiors a couple of tongue in cheek suggestions to incorporate in there? - One of those people carriers that race around with the geriatrics on board - my legs are knackered. & a working luggage collection conveyor belt that delivers the luggage promptly after one lands. Seriously, as a creative challenge could you perhaps look at: - the generic yellow butterfly & give it a few companions, maybe a Monarch & a blue one? - Some sheep. I figure if you guys can do a horse, some cattle & a deer on steroids, then maybe a sheep too? Thanks TTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominique Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 - the generic yellow butterfly & give it a few companions, maybe a Monarch & a blue one? Some airports have butterflies, Siletz Bay S45 if I remember well has some , Tiger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTigerM Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Some airports have butterflies, Siletz Bay S45 if I remember well has some , Tiger. Dominique. There are 3 or 4 airports with butterflies. I think Harvey Field is one. They tend to appear at about midday in spring, usually around the area where I am sitting idling waiting to take off. But from the depths of my faulty memory, I think they are all yellow. Flight pattern is quite realistic. Which leads me to inquire whether there is a piece of code for the yellow butterfly, & it gets passed along between developers, or drawn down from an objects database? TTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominique Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 Dominique. There are 3 or 4 airports with butterflies. I think Harvey Field is one. They tend to appear at about midday in spring, usually around the area where I am sitting idling waiting to take off. But from the depths of my faulty memory, I think they are all yellow. Flight pattern is quite realistic. Which leads me to inquire whether there is a piece of code for the yellow butterfly, & it gets passed along between developers, or drawn down from an objects database? TTM I get your point now... Well, at least they shouldn't do the butterfly that eats our palmtrees where I live ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddler Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I seldom "Bob" airports on the outside or inside of buildings but when I do, I enjoy it. I am constantly pleased when I taxi etc to see the animal flow and birds, vehicles, sounds etc, and marvel at the surprises a developer adds to personalise each offering and put a smile on user's faces. I look forward to more of it. Thanks developers all, it is simply amazing work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdguy Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Call me when I can Bob into the terminal lounge and order a real Michelob and pay for it with Monopoly money.. Noel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabble Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I quite like these details being there, even if I don't regularly bob in to look. I reckon we should regard these as art. Just as a Delacroix painting may have all sorts of hidden elements lost on the casual viewer - golden ratios, medieval secret symbols, maybe a hidden location of Atlantis , it's nice that an airport can have all sorts of details only visible if we make the effort to explore them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTigerM Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Call me when I can Bob into the terminal lounge and order a real Michelob and pay for it with Monopoly money.. Noel I have a BMW but not Bob. Yet. Does he sit in among the aircraft options like the BMW? TTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominique Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 I quite like these details being there, even if I don't regularly bob in to look. I reckon we should regard these as art. Just as a Delacroix painting may have all sorts of hidden elements lost on the casual viewer - golden ratios, medieval secret symbols, maybe a hidden location of Atlantis , it's nice that an airport can have all sorts of details only visible if we make the effort to explore them. I don't Bob much if ever, I just fly (or try to) . And Jabble you read too much that Da Vinci Code stuff I reckon ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabble Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I don't Bob much if ever, I just fly (or try to) . And Jabble you read too much that Da Vinci Code stuff I reckon ! It's some of the most entertaining nonsense out there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominique Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 It's some of the most entertaining nonsense out there! I gave up after 20 pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teecee Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I agree with the original poster.. I recently bought a large Aussie airport from another producer, and although I have a fair system, (my specs on the forum are way out of date by the way) I ended up having to turn many of the fancy bits off, and in fact had to butcher the main scenery folder to avoid massive OOM's. A nice, factual layout of an airport is better that a fancy one that you cannot run.Teecee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Pilot Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 My thanks to our wonderful developers who give us such wonderful scenery, not just the airports but they include the surrounding area. If you guys want to include interiors, go for it. How about more hangar interiors. I worked on airports from 1960 thru 1975 and I never taxied up to a closed door FBO. Once again, thanks again for the added enjoyment you have brought to me. Dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jethro VH-JET Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I don't entirely disagree Dominique but it does depend on the type of sim flying you like to do, ie; if you like large airports for tubflyers and fly long distance in the clouds between @ high altitude then the beauty of those highly detailed smaller airports and animations would be lost. I mostly fly Helos and low slow light aircraft usually at low altitude VFR so when a detailed airfield is the target I definitely appreciate the extra effort that went into its creation. Well said Misha & Alex It is a fine balance between what we do as VP's cruising into an airport for splash and dash refuelling, or even passenger/cargo ops, and maybe only spend a few minutes before taking off for another leg of a planned flight or just enjoying the overall scenery surrounds. It all depends whether we are a "flyer" liking the challenge of getting the pilot skills exactly right in Flight sim, or a tourist just taking in the scenery for the POI's and detail alone. But it is only when you visit and search around the Detail area of a Payware Airport the little gems of creative magic make themselves visible. A highly detailed airport can place extra load on resources but with the ability to unselect extra load features with control panels or enable them at the full level to see all bell and whistle features, that you get the sense of the designers impressions, and background research, their desire to give the user the most bang for their buck, as well as utilize their creativity to the fullest that technology will allow. Keep pushing forward guys expand your tech creativity to the fullest I say, by all means have fun, otherwise we would not even have what we see in our sims today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Hobson Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 It's some of the most entertaining nonsense out there! I'd rather fly than read entertaining nonsense. Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominique Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 I fly mostly GA, Jeff, and I love, as said earlier, all the fine details that any OrbX airport brings along making them truly alive. Details that I see from my Piper or Cessna. Standing, rolling or flying. What I wonder about are the extra extra details that we can't really see except if Bobing around. Answering to Dale, I am all fot hangar interiors of course and quite often bring my aircraft to one of them at the end of a flight ! Even if the hangar is at the other end and a sweeper is on the way (did I say S45? ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdguy Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I'd rather fly than read entertaining nonsense. Just sayin'. Another one of my favorite hobbies; reading entertaining nonsense. On our last rail voyage I read all three Hunger Games books. Nonsense but entertaining. Much like watching Start Trek NG reruns. Mostly nonsense but very entertaining. I love to be entertained, even if it's nonsense. Noel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Newman Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 There are some airports that actually benefit in terms of the immersion by having a modeled interior. I'd say mostly those that serve commercial routes... for example, Santa Rosa. If there one thing an airline pilot notices while waiting for all the people to get on it's the activity behind the glass There are even some real world airports I can mention (not yet made into addon though) that have such small terminal buildings that you can physically see right through them to the parking lot! It's those little "well look at that!" moments that are getting attention lately that really add to the feeling of being there, for me at least. But I will admit that there are some non orbx airports that have interiors that I really wish had an option not to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominique Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 If there one thing an airline pilot notices while waiting for all the people to get on it's the activity behind the glass an interesting point ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Newman Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 There's not much else to look at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addman Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 The added detail and objects that Alex, Mischa and the rest put in their respective projects are one of the major reason I buy and enjoy Orbx products. Keep doing what you're doing guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac_Maddog88 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I agree with the original poster.. I recently bought a large Aussie airport from another producer, and although I have a fair system, (my specs on the forum are way out of date by the way) I ended up having to turn many of the fancy bits off, and in fact had to butcher the main scenery folder to avoid massive OOM's. A nice, factual layout of an airport is better that a fancy one that you cannot run.Teecee. Having also purchased said airport, I agree with Teecee. These days, you honestly don't know what you're going to get sometimes... I purchased a scenery for Toronto awhile back that just made my computer grind to a halt. As a user, we shouldn't have to tear apart the scenery folder just to get something to run well. What i love about ORBX is that I know each time I buy an airport that I can expect something that will perform amazingly and still have good visuals. ORBX goes through everything to make sure their scenery is top notch, they are as much a user and flightsimmer as anybody else here and they take real pride in their work that really shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfbindewald Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 There are some airports that actually benefit in terms of the immersion by having a modeled interior. I'd say mostly those that serve commercial routes... for example, Santa Rosa. If there one thing an airline pilot notices while waiting for all the people to get on it's the activity behind the glass Yesterday I went to PAHO Homer and I must admit how impressive it is looking from outside (Cockpit pilot view) into the terminal waiting room and to even recognize slight moving people . This is a visual improvement and brings life into the scenery even from outside. I´m flying airliners and I would appreciate to have this in other airports too. I can imagine that at night the view from outside through terminal windows could be stunning.... Wulf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominique Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 I would say that, at that stage, three arguments tend to sway my initial sceptikal feeling : - Alex and Misha's assurance that there is a negligible impact on fluidty (but beware that a bucket of water is made out of tiny drops) . - Misha's fun factor for the designer. I totally understand that argument from my own professional experience. You always need something a little fun, gratuitous, at the edge of your main job which may be, from time to time, tedious. It helps to do it better. - Rob and Wulf's argument about ogling female pax from the cockpity instead of carefully preparing their flight plan (what ? this is not what you said ?). I must admit there that "Gate 1 Large" is not my usual landing point when I enter into the sim. I should do it more . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfbindewald Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 - Rob and Wulf's argument about ogling female pax from the cockpity instead of carefully preparing their flight plan (what ? this is not what you said ?). I must admit there that "Gate 1 Large" is not my usual landing point when I enter into the sim. I should do it more . For sure I am carefully feeding my FMC before start ;-) but after landing a relaxed VC view outside may be permitted ;-). Nevertheless I like the discussion because there are individual preferences ..... from a pedestrian/passenger simulator (BOB), a bicycle simulator for the detailed city portraits and finally to the original FS which is overall combined and well integrated in the Orbx world. Wulf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Hamilton Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I must admit there that "Gate 1 Large" is not my usual landing point when I enter into the sim. I should do it more . Just make sure you research the airport first, Gate 1 may not be the optimum viewing spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iflygary Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Initially I started out nodding my head in agreement with Dominique after reading his post. I was thinking to myself, man just when they scenery gets so good and you're totally immersed, the coverage area ends. But that very thought brought me to Misha and Alex's point. Total immersion and fun!! My family and I visited the PNW from Florida for our summer vacation three years ago. My wife, knowing that I'm the huge Flight Sim enthusiast I am, allowed me to insert Darrington, Concrete, and Snoqualmie Falls( just up the road from Fall City) as stops along the way. I had never visited the PNW prior to this occasion but I was pointing things out to them that I knew( and was hoping and praying ) would be there before we even made it to each destination, and they were all there!! All were startled at Good Ole Dad's extensive preplanning and knowledge of the area until I pulled out the IPad and brought up Orbx's Products Page. That's when the aw went from Dad to Orbx with it's pinpoint accuracy for details. We even stopped at the Shell Gas Station in Darrington for snacks. We visited Bozeman MT and Jackson Hole WY for last year's summer vacation, and yupp you guessed it, all things were exactly where Orbx's devs said they would be . Keep up the awesome work guys!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLighT Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 These guys aren't just coders/designers, their artists as well, from my perspective. As such I believe they need to express themselves fully on any project they do to get the type of satisfaction that keeps them coming back to do more projects. I don't think I would have suggested to Leonardo DaVinci to re-paint 'The Last Supper' but this time don't use any red paint! Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Abernathy Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 A great and lively discussion! As long as a CP allows users to switch off some areas that may impact frames but not the overall "feel" of the airport I think we have the best of all worlds. I totally agree that the devs have to have a passion in expressing their talent so it's fun for them and us as well. I love to fly and also really enjoy just being at the airport, whether it's watching takeoffs and landings, or just people watching while waiting for a flight. I took all the pictures that Jarrard used in creating KRDD and Benton Airpark so it was fun to see all the attention to detail going into this project. Of course Jarrard went the extra mile and modeled other POI and features to make the whole area look like what I see every day here in Redding. Gotta love this hobby, something for everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabble Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 ... - Rob and Wulf's argument about ogling female pax from the cockpity instead of carefully preparing their flight plan (what ? this is not what you said ?). I must admit there that "Gate 1 Large" is not my usual landing point when I enter into the sim. I should do it more . Those braid-wearing types get all the glamour! We bush pilots usually get sent to a GA parking spot somewhere between the garbage incinerator and that charred hulk used for firefighting practice. Though it's good to see the down-market end of the airport gets well-modelled too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olli4740 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I'd rather fly than read entertaining nonsense. Just sayin'. Another one of my favorite hobbies; reading entertaining nonsense. On our last rail voyage I read all three Hunger Games books. Nonsense but entertaining. Much like watching Start Trek NG reruns. Mostly nonsense but very entertaining. I love to be entertained, even if it's nonsense. Noel Isn't flying a desk, while sitting in an armchair, pretending to be a pilot kinda nonsense? But very entertaining ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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