DX10 / DX11 compatibility and Orbx

[John Venema]

There seems to be quite some "angst" in the FS community about the silence from Orbx about DX10 compatibility and our 1,000's of library objects. In response to the continued barrage of blog and forum posts around the internet (some of them less than pleasant I might add), and even some mis-guided attempts to modify Orbx IP and files to "fix" shadow issues, I thought it prudent to give a company statement.

 

We are committed to DX10 compliance for all our products

We are also looking at the bigger picture which is DX11 compliance for Prepar3D V2.0

 

There are a number of known issues with shadow planes attached to our StaticFlow aircraft libraries; we have been aware of these for some time but the fact is Jarrad Marshall has been on a round-world holiday and has the source files on his laptop and is working to resolve this tricky issue. It's not a simple problem to fix for a myriad of reasons, but Jarrad has been working with Steve Parsons on some techniques and hopes to update this library very soon.

 

We are also aware of DX10 shadow issues for many objects in the Orbxlibs; again, we are acutely aware of these and are internally organising a disciplined, structured way to test and report on these DX10/DX11 issues and resolve them.

 

Please understand that we are not ignoring the DX10 crowd, nor trying to dampen their obvious enthusiasm. We fully intend to be able to put shiny "DX10" badges on all new product releases moving forward and to update the Orbxlibs as soon as possible.

 

In return, I would ask the FS Community to be a little more patient and respectful and not resort to bombing almost every Orbx news post on FS sites with "but is it DX10 compatible" sort of posts; it's getting quite tiresome and irritating for the entire team.

 

Yours in updates.

[hjmx]

Thank you John, for making this clear statement. I was hoping for s.th. like this for longer time.

 

Cheers,

Harry

[moonman]

This, JV, is a message which i - and i assume many others will so too - really appreciate!

Thank You!

And in regards to the "ongoing bombing" on various FS sites - i hope it is okay to, if needed, link to this statement of Yours here to "spread the word" and then hopefully help lessen the "bombing".

 

For now and again though:

A serious THANK YOU for this message and for the ongoing support by ORBX for DX10 (FSX) and DX11 (P3D,2.0)!

Cheers, Christoph

[DocBird]

To JV:

 

You are too successful! Or as we say: You never kick a dead dog! The grudgers are everywhere! Just don't care about them unless it gets personally.

 

Personally I use Orbx-products in DX10 and I am satisfied 99.9% of the time. And now your post! What else can we ask for?

 

Even more important is to bring anything to work under P3D 2.0 and to optimize your products for the future.

DX10 will only be a temporary solution for an issue that will (hopefully) be no longer existing in DX11.  

 

Thanks!

[Tigerclaw]

Please understand that we are not ignoring the DX10 crowd, nor trying to dampen their obvious enthusiasm. We fully intend to be able to put shiny "DX10" badges on all new product releases moving forward and to update the Orbxlibs as soon as possible.

 

Yours in updates.

 

This I never doubted for one second. I can't believe people fail to realise that your libraries (and libraries from other developers) go back to a much earlier date. I've just recently started using DX10, with the DX10 fixer, and to be honest I don't notice very many problems at all. Especially in your newer products. 

 

I, as you do too, wish people would be more patient. These things take a lot of time, and that time is taken AWAY from developing new products. Personally, I feel the time is better spent developing new regions etc, than correcting older files. It will all get done eventually, of that I have no doubt.

 

People NEED to realise that for a company to continue in business, it MUST make money to pay the wages for the people doing the work, and other overheads. NEW products bring in that revenue, going back over older work does not. So for those moaning about a few black squares, or shadows, think about what you want long term. A company still going strong, with the ability to correct those minor flaws? Or a company gone bust, who can no longer correct those flaws because it hasn't made enough money to keep trading? The choice is yours people.

 

Thanks for the company statement Mr Venema, let's hope people will understand where you are coming from. Keep up the good work all at ORBX.

[Culley44]

i for one am just satisfied for the continued support in fsx all together, as p3d 2.0 nears what alot of people don't understand that you could just dump fsx, i for one believe fsx has many years of life left in it depending on what p3d 2.0 brings. i have seen alot of the posts that you may be referring too, as far as i am concerned i don't see a big difrence between dx9 and dx10 in fsx anyway, thanks for the update and continued work efforts.

[Mallard]

Thanks for the clarification and information, JV. I was indeed originally going to ask the "is it DX10 compatible" - question in the Bathurst preview thread But I'll just wait paitiently for the fixes and trust that the shiny new "DX 10" badges will be available soon...

 

 

NEW products bring in that revenue, going back over older work does not. So for those moaning about a few black squares, or shadows, think about what you want long term.

 

Hi Tigerclaw - fair enough - but it was at the latest releases (Juneau, for example) where the black squares were the most obvious. The place is full of them - and as a result I won't be flying from there in the near future anymore. Queenstown is also quite infested with them. So if I hear an announcement for a new piece of scenery and have those other recently released ones before my mind's eye I simply won't buy the new one if there is no further information on the subject (which has now been satisfactorily provided (for me at least) in this thread)... That's certainly not "going over older ones"...

 

Cheers

 

Mallard
 

[ramonb]

John; as others I was sitting on the fence waiting for this, so I truly appreciate this message/statement.
and look forward for those shiny "DX 10" & "P3D v2 DX 11" badges.

 

Cheers

[Paul J]

A very personal "Thank You", John.

 

This is one of those "above and beyond" messages that will create enormous goodwill from  "us DX10'ers" world-wide.

 

All the Best,

 

Paul J

[JoseCFII]

This is what had to be said, but it still might not stop the haters from hating!

 

There are some who think is wrong for FTX to give away the Iceland DEMO.

 

It's laughable.

 

Jose

[Marvic]

Thanks John, getting sick of the constant DX10 users complaining everywhere about issues. Not everyone is complaint. Most simmers were so happy about the fix, they did not bother to check which developers were set up for DX10 and now they are crapping on any developer who does not utliize it.

[Tigerclaw]

Thanks for the clarification and information, JV. I was indeed originally going to ask the "is it DX10 compatible" - question in the Bathurst preview thread But I'll just wait paitiently for the fixes and trust that the shiny new "DX 10" badges will be available soon...

 

 

 

Hi Tigerclaw - fair enough - but it was at the latest releases (Juneau, for example) where the black squares were the most obvious. The place is full of them - and as a result I won't be flying from there in the near future anymore. Queenstown is also quite infested with them. So if I hear an announcement for a new piece of scenery and have those other recently released ones before my mind's eye I simply won't buy the new one if there is no further information on the subject (which has now been satisfactorily provided (for me at least) in this thread)... That's certainly not "going over older ones"...

 

Cheers

 

Mallard

 

 

I fully understand what you are saying, but the point I was trying to make was simply that the "Libraries" contain items that were made quite some time ago, and it's these items that will eventually be updated. It's a shame that some of the new products contain these items right now, but I'm sure they will get fixed. I wasn't saying "forget the old stuff", but precedence must go to new developments. I only asked for patience. But good point, well brought up

[Stevefsx]

Thanks John,

I also wish that some Dx10 users would show better manners and a little more patience.

It should be noted that none of these issues relate to "faulty" Orbx models or textures but rather to issues that Aces left in the drawcall batching system in the DX10 engine.

[franck66]

Thanks john for this announcement, that only reinforces my trust about your team

 

Thanks

[ZK-OKQ]

Thanks John.

[Bruce Hamilton]

There are some who think is wrong for FTX to give away the Iceland DEMO.

 

Then they should be allowed to pay for it, if they feel so strongly.  I'm sure JV won't refuse contributions. 

[Andrew 737]

Then they should be allowed to pay for it, if they feel so strongly.  I'm sure JV won't refuse contributions. 

Spot On Bruce

[Tim Harris]

Thanks for the clarification and information, JV. I was indeed originally going to ask the "is it DX10 compatible" - question in the Bathurst preview thread

 

 

 

 

Yes DX10 is compatible with the upcoming Bathurst

[GarethW]

Marvellous. The calibre and number of well-thought-out responses to your letter John, speak for themselves. You know I sometimes wonder about what goes on in the heads of a small section of our well-meaning fraternity.

 

But the real reason for making this post is to take this opportunity to add my own personal 'thank you' for your vision, your guts and your 100% commitment to enhancing this great hobby of ours.   

 

Let's not be coy about it. You have, and are in the process of adding, so much enjoyment and satisfaction to flightsim.  'Raising the bar' appears to be part of your personal and corporate mission. You have only to look at the integrity of the ORBX website.  

 

I can't believe I'm typing this next bit, must be the coffee .... but here goes: I don't know if such a thing exists outside of the touching tributes on the excellent AVSIM forum to great contributors now no longer with us, but maybe there's room for an AVSIM Honours list for outstanding 'contributors to flightim'.  

 

And on that note I'll say good knight.  

 

Gareth

[Tassie]

Then they should be allowed to pay for it, if they feel so strongly.  I'm sure JV won't refuse contributions. 

+1   

[Sid]

Great thread to have here JV!

I don't use DX10/11 at this stage but all the same this thread is really useful to all really, especially for the times ahead! Nice one  . And great comms again!

Cheers,

Sid

[AndreaD]

..............

 

There are some who think is wrong for FTX to give away the Iceland DEMO.

 

It's laughable.

 

Jose

 

Uhm nope it's not.

 

Raising the quality level is one thing, giving it away for free is another.

 

Now everyone can fly in a totally new (and wonderful) Iceland scenery, and they do not have to spend a dime for it. Don't you think this is making obsolete at least half of current FSX payware scenery? This was fatally bound to make a few people angry.

 

I'm looking forward to what is going to happen with P3D2 release. Those who find themselves riding the wrong horse will have something to say, I bet (licensing anyone?). 

 

What do you say? They have already started? Unavoidable. And laughable just the same.

 

Bye .......

[Ripcord]

I just made my first flight with Steve's DX10 fix.  Fly EGKK to EGKA, short hop, with reasonable traffic (nothing over the top), and not a peep.  No OOM, not even close.  Not sure I even got over 2.2 G VAS.  Normally I was starting from that at the menu when I start to load into free flight.  Brilliant. 

 

Maybe a bit premature, as I have more testing to do, but I am starting to think now I can stop tweaking and start enjoying my weekends again.

 

 

[HansRoaming]

Great to hear as the DX 10 Fixer makes the sim look great and perfect with Orbx scenery apart from a few glitches which you'r working on.

Thanks very much for this effort.

[cvearl]

Ah but will it be DX12 compatible? Kidding. Great post ORBX! I am really excited about possibility of P3P DX11 working great with new AMD and Nvidia cards to their fullest potential. But most importantly ORBX scenery.

C.

[CrownCityMisfit]

Thank you John. FTX Global runs beautifully with Steve's Fixer. I actually spend time flying now, rather than tweaking.

 

I still have issues in a few places, such as Orbx KJAC, where lights disappear as I approach them throughout the scenery. Sometimes panning the view quickly to one side, then back again, makes the lights reappear. 

 

I'm not sweating it though. I will continue to enjoy your products nonetheless. Keep up the fantastic work.

[Gartro]

BladderBoy's lights experience interested me because another Orbx airport, Bozeman, raised a "Why is it so?" lights query with me whilst I was using it. I flew in and out in an Aerosoft Twin Otter and the QWE Avro at about 7am. The runway and taxiway lights were on.

 

Something strange happened with all of the edge lights on the taxiways running parallel to the runway, none of the edge lights of the taxiways at right angles to the runway and only some of the edge lights of the runway. What it was with the affected lights is that an edge light would switch off when the aircraft was about 10 metres away approaching the light.

 

I can't recall this happening at any other airport (Orbx or otherwise).

 

I merely found it interesting. My concern was no higher than that. Much like the question of why the water goes down the bath plug-hole in a different direction depending on whether you are in the northern or southern hemisphere is interesting but not something that is disruptive of our lives, it seemed to me that this was one of those FSX conundrums which are interesting but which don't interfere with our use and enjoyment of FSX and its add-ons.

 

I didn't give a second thought to whether it might have anything to do with DirectX (earlier I had assumed that my problems with Queenstown may be DirectX related (having regard to comments about DirectX in the Queenstown manual) only to then find out that they were Antarctica X related instead).

[Paul J]

Just an FYI, guys - there are updates on the way, the latest being build 26 at the FSS, so it's important to check over at the Avsim DX10 forum for any fresh release. This is monitored and updated daily by Steve.

[Orbxtreme]

Quite happy with DX9 and DX10 Preview while waiting patiently for official updates when they are ready. Everything is so much better today then what it used to be, it's unbelievable the amount of progress that has been made. I feel privileged to pay the price I pay for what I get. Thanks for the efforts Orbx.

[Kilstorm]

Thank you very much for this post JV. Nothing to read between the lines on and is very clear. Do have a question about DX11 now that the NDA has been lifted which wont pry too deep into the Beta testing and this is for any Orbx team member who might know to answer if they would. I had speculations that going from DX9 to DX11 might cause issues similar to what happened going from DX9 to DX10 preview.  Not exactly the same issues but perhaps a few very small issues as that DX11 wouldn't just work 100% from DX9. Would that belief be correct that there are issues going from one DX (like 9 to 11) where it is just DX issues and not because its a "unfinished" or "preview" thing like DX10?

[Hank]

Thanks John,

 

Once again; ORBX comes through with "problem solving" technology. I'm also in the waiting camp for P3D version 2. Then I'll take the

full plunge after I read some of the reports from all the "cashed up" members who will, I'm sure give it a thorough test first.

 

You're still THE MAN as far as flight sim is concerned.

 

Cheers

Hank

[Adam Banks]

John - it's great to see ORBX working together with *any* other FSX developer, but it's particularly great news for us [new] DX10 converts. I can't imagine FSX now without Steve's DX10 Fixer any more than an FSX install without ORBX products.

 

As to object shading issues ... I've always wanted to be able to use the scenery self-shadow option, but understand fully ORBX's stance on this old chestnut. As part of this general re-working of objects for DX10/DX11, is it likely that you may be able to fix some of these little static object/buildings annoyances? I'm happy if you reiterate your previous response(s), but I thought there's no harm in asking ;-)

 

Adam.

[Gypsy Pilot]

Considering the fact that P3D V2  will only run on machines with a DX11 video card I feel that upgrading to DX11 is going to become more important in the future.

I am so thankful that the new video card that I just installed has a lot of VRAM and is a DX11 card.

 

Changes like this take time and I would like to remind those that are new to the MSFS world about all of the complaints that accompanied the FSX release,

 

It took the community several years to sort out FSX and it has set a new standard for what a FS should be and it looks like LM is going to raise that standard again.

You should expect problems to arise but rest assured that someone out there will find a solution to them.

 

It appears that DX11 is going to bring a new level of realism to our sims and all I can say is here we go again. 

 

Over the years I have learned that all improvements cost money,  It makes no difference if it is home, auto, FS, or anything else, all improvements are expensive.

 

We all know that Flight Simming is a money pit.  It turns out that that 50 dollar game is just the start of an investment that can run into thousands of dollars.  We are in denial about it but we do it because we love it and it's cheaper than drugs.     I love to fly low and slow and the first time I flew over Orbx scenery I new that I was hooked. I want to thank JV and the Orbx developers for working so hard to keep my wallet empty.

 

I am going to assume that because you are here on the Orbx forum that you do not want to go back to FS9  and give up Orbx scenery.  So just be patient and stop all of the bitching, everything is going to work out eventually.

 

 

 

 

 

[shaun6811]

Thank you John 

 

Regarding DX10 compatability and everything else you are bringing to the flight sim community

 

We support you!

 

You bring it - we will buy it!!!

 

A new flight sim is on the way - courtesy of you guys!

 

I am sure you have the support of a MASSIVE COMMUNITY out here - we have been lost in the (FSX "Spit in disgust" wilderness for far too long) - Thank goodness you aren't just putting things right but making MAJOR enhancements and improvements and I am sure I speak for the huge majority of us - Thank you 

 

You and your team are our saviours!

 

Bring on your talents and let the Next Generation of Flight begin - Oh, "Flight! - Spit in disgust again!" - what a tragedy that was!

 

FSX should be renamed "FTX" in your honour!

 

Genuine thanks John - Many Thousands of people DO appreciate what you and your team are achieving and I am sure the word is spreading fast and many more will be coming onboard all the time.

 

Global + Vector + LC + Continual updates = Flying heaven thanks to FTX

 

 

[PFS]

I don't remember how it came to be, but I have DX11 on my computer. I realized it when FSWC didn't seem to work properly, and I discovered that it only works with DX9 right now. I don't see a way to revert back to DX9 from DX11. So I guess I'll just have to wait till my FSX/Orbx stuff becomes fully compatible with DX11 to get maximum benefit.

-Paul

[Paul J]

Hi PFS:

 

DX11 is nothing more than the latest set of library functions, instructions, commands - like a language alphabet that now has been given a few extra letters. Here's some decent detail on this Wiki:

 

DX10 is just an earlier set, and DX9, earlier yet, going all the way back to DX1, I guess. FSX was written to use DX9, and when SP2 came out it was urgraded to make use of the DX10 API.

 

Your Windows 7 / 8 OS comes with these all built-in, so that, if you want to use FSX in the DX10 mode - it will do so without any intervention from you. Of course - FSX - DX10 will be much better with Steve's DX10 Scenery Fixer!

 

Hope this helps!

 

All the Best,

 

pj

[PFS]

Thanks for that info, PJ; It *did* help me understand what DirectX is and its main function.

I've been flying FSX with Orbx/REX/Opus for a long time now, with no real performances concerns or issues.

It wasn't until it seemed that FSWC wasn't "looking quite right" in my FSX that I did some searching on it, and discovered that it only works for DX9 right now. Hopefully they'll upgrade it soon. I can live with the appearance of the water as it is now, though. (My water certainly doesn't look as nice as what appears in FSWC's screenshots)

Again, thanks for clarifying the whole DirectX thing for me.

-Paul