ramonb Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 5 minutes ago, pmb said: I still would be interested in a few words from ORBX' perspective. Kind regards, Michael I totally agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fltsimguy Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Does anyone remember MS Flight....well then....deep breath...I'll believe it when I see it....and I'll sure as heck wait to watch others wade in before ever considering investing my time and money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caribou Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Interesting topic.... I've said this before and will say again..... I'm happy with FSX + Orbx addons + Rex clouds + various payware/freeware planes... + other freeware addons So, I'm interested to see how a new flight sim will work, but I can't say I'm excited about it at this time...... The new one would have to be fantastic for me to spend more money and time getting it to the point I'm now at with addons I've bought for FSX. Hopefully, Dovetail will change my mind. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triplane Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 On 2/10/2016 at 10:21 AM, RHaas said: Not very sure about Dovetail. I suspect with Dovetail that the SIM will be locked down from third party developers like Microsoft flight was. You'll be forced to buy and use the DLC that Dovetail approves of and releases. You wont have the same freedoms to use payware and freeware addon aircraft, scenery's and weather from the web like we now do with FSX. If am wrong and it has the same freedoms as FSX then I am all for it. I agree. Somehow I find it hard to believe that a company with a DLC business model can develop a "new" flight simulator with anything like what we're used in third-party add-ons with FSX and P3D. Time will tell but, for now, my vote is a big yawn................ Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoseCFII Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I have fully loaded FSX Acceleration and X-Plane sims. Those are the two that get my excitement and attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Venema Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Flight School is a closed sim, as DTG announced today. That means no third party content or DLCs. I applaud this initiative; we need fresh blood to join the FS community and this will get them hooked and skilled up in piloting basics no doubt. Good stuff! DGFS due later in 2016 is open to third party developers. The exact nature of how those third party developers create content has not been detailed yet, and it's not for me to speculate on that. I am sure DTG will be approaching the developers they want to produce launch content for them in due course. It's still early days for DGFS yet. Don't make comparisons to MS Flight, these two sims are based on the FSX engine (which I have praised ad infinitum as the best far horizon high poly 3D engine ever made) and are different beasts entirely. We only have about 8-10 weeks to wait and see for ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridinroun Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I have P3D v3 working really good and with ORBX looking really great. I haven't had any problems with oom's and stuttering for awhile so it would take something really amazing and groundbreaking to get me excited. For now I shall remain curious as to what they are going to come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 If dovetail was smart, orbx should already have the sim in their hands with a signed non disclosure agreement. They said the full sim would be released at the end of the year, they should be doing fine tuning and stuff. Not like pushing out alpha products like DCS World. In my opinion, the leading third parties should already have the sim. Just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca22au Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I'm with JV, I'll hold my judgement. How on earth could Dovetail expect to invest as much as Lockheed Martin?....and after all P3D is just a really heavily worked over FSX. I am an easy lay when it comes to flightsim, build a better sim and I will buy...but my excitement is well under control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double J Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 6 hours ago, fltsimguy said: Does anyone remember MS Flight....well then....deep breath...I'll believe it when I see it....and I'll sure as heck wait to watch others wade in before ever considering investing my time and money. Yes, it was the one that got me started in FS. I still turn it on once every blue moon to enjoy scenery that does pop up or move below the plane..with out a single tweak in the CFG or 100s of dollars in addons.. If the new DTS works and looks as well as MS Flight with more content I will dump FSX and P3D from my hard drives. Too any people wrote it off with out even trying it, they all expected FSX11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan King Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 I shared some thoughts while on the subject.flying around ORBX's L70. I think to the experienced crowd here, alot of it will be apparent but wanted to offer up the discussion none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmerhead2 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I'm all in on both new sims! I embrace every effort to expand and evolve the flight simulator franchise, and I welcome and support any effort to make a new sim on new platforms (like UNIGINE, Outerra etc.). Happy days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anfield ace Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Early days, but as a long term flight simmer, from the first days of FSX, used purely for home entertainment, I'm really excited about these future advances to our hobby! I hope that Dovetail has great success with these two new sims, and that we can all enjoy theses latest new versions! cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobnobs Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 At least DTG are making an effort to lead the entertainment SIM market. LHM aren't for entertainment so the only other alternative is X-Plane *tumbleweed* Anyway, I look forward to seeing what they will do to move the aging FSX platform into this generation of computer tech. 64bit with DX11 will be a huge milestone for stability and scalability. Like any company, they have to innovate or die and you can't accuse them of not wanting to try. Good luck DTG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyQ Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I'm semi excited. I am very interested to see what 64-bit and DX11 will bring to FS with an older machine. Hopefully one will be able to turn up the graphics and still maintain a reasonable fps. Lots of questions, but yeah, kind of excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Venema Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Those expecting substantial performance improvements will be disappointed. Moving to 64-bit just gives Windows more memory address space versus 32-bit, so the days of VAS limits and OOMs will be over. However, DX11 is not a magic API that gives your existing GPU a sudden boost in power; if anything it's more complex and GPU intensive if new shaders and environmental effects are being called. Expect performance on par with P3Dv3.1, perhaps slightly better depending on how much the new FSX engine kernel is offloading tasks and threads to the GPU. Your current hardware is what it is, 64-bit/DX11 does not give it a performance boost at all, perhaps more overhead for more complex scene rendering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neucoas Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 What i'd like to know and see if the new DGFS - graphics wise, appart from better general FDE - will come with upgraded textures, better vector data/autogen/Landclass, newer airport database and little things like new weather engine, volumetric fog etc etc etc Imagine a world where Dovetail pays ORBX to do the general ground textures for the new sim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnkH Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 22 minutes ago, John Venema said: Those expecting substantial performance improvements will be disappointed. Moving to 64-bit just gives Windows more memory address space versus 32-bit, so the days of VAS limits and OOMs will be over. However, DX11 is not a magic API that gives your existing GPU a sudden boost in power; if anything it's more complex and GPU intensive if new shaders and environmental effects are being called. This. And people tend to forget what kind of load is put on your system when flying around in P3Dv3. Comparisons with current games and their engines are always quickly done, but it is unfair. Even todays open world games do not have unlimited maps, there is no to little chance that even a 2016 flightsimulator will offer graphics far beyond that we already see inside P3Dv3. It is simply not possible. Sure, the Nevada Map in DCS 2.0 shows what might be possible, but covering the whole planet in such a quality? Even though the streaming capacities of todays engines are vastly improved, I really doubt to see a visual improvement on a huge scale. We will see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilstorm Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 DTG apparently paid a lot of money for the FSX game engine and have stated that they are in it for the long haul. Taking JV on his word that the FSX engine (and building off of it) is the best flight sim engine we have seen, is a great first step. The thing is for DTG to be in it for the long haul. We saw with LM P3Dv1 there were few who jumped to it, both as users and developers to support it. Luckily a lot of stuff ported over. Imagine how much harder of a sell it would of been if things didnt port over easily like what might happen with this new 64 bit version. As with the P3D case it wasnt until v2 and perhaps late in v2 that we really saw a community move to start and support it both as users and developers. It is going to be a tough sell and by that I mean they are going to have to be in it for the long haul because there was lessons learned from those who tried to support MSFlight and got burned. So early adopters might have the once bitten twice shy. Plus all of us who have been building an addon library of over 10 years who arent ready to drop those or be quick to pay to re-buy the addon for use in this new platform. There is plenty of room for ease of use with this steam thing being a way to mesh the addons into the main sim so that if a reinstall is done, its a one click method as it will put in the base sim and all your addons. Add to the fact that "if" they work with 3rd party developers to be the ones that build the top layer to their base engine (scenery developers, weather developers, aircraft developers, environment developers, etc) then not only would that cut down cost for them but help keep the community united and assist in marketing. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnkH Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, Kilstorm said: DTG apparently paid a lot of money for the FSX game engine and have stated that they are in it for the long haul. If I remember correctly, DTG did not buy the FSX game engine. The bought the MS Flight engine plus the distribution rights of MS FSX, which they partially improved. Small but important difference in my eyes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonW Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Unless it has everything right out of the box, I don't really care. I'm not gonna buy scenery or plane licenses again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juanvito Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I'm intrigued by it. However, I'm still on good old FSX (I haven't checked if my addons are Prep3D-compatible, specially the freeware stuff), and it works nicely for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimshot Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 11 minutes ago, AnkH said: If I remember correctly, DTG did not buy the FSX game engine. The bought the MS Flight engine plus the distribution rights of MS FSX, which they partially improved. Small but important difference in my eyes... As I understand it they purchased the right to build on Microsoft flightsim technology, not the right to a specific engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neucoas Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 1 hour ago, John Venema said: Expect performance on par with P3Dv3.1, perhaps slightly better depending on how much the new FSX engine kernel is offloading tasks and threads to the GPU. Adding also REAL multicore support wouldn't be a good gain on performance vs P3D? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyQ Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 1 hour ago, John Venema said: Those expecting substantial performance improvements will be disappointed. Moving to 64-bit just gives Windows more memory address space versus 32-bit, so the days of VAS limits and OOMs will be over. However, DX11 is not a magic API that gives your existing GPU a sudden boost in power; if anything it's more complex and GPU intensive if new shaders and environmental effects are being called. Expect performance on par with P3Dv3.1, perhaps slightly better depending on how much the new FSX engine kernel is offloading tasks and threads to the GPU. Your current hardware is what it is, 64-bit/DX11 does not give it a performance boost at all, perhaps more overhead for more complex scene rendering. Thanks for that bit of wisdom, John. I skipped my biennial upgrade this last spring, might have to give that another thought after this finally comes out and others are using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmb Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 25 minutes ago, Rimshot said: As I understand it they purchased the right to build on Microsoft flightsim technology, not the right to a specific engine. Right. And according to the chief developer they finally decided to base development of both sims (FlightSchool plus DFS) on the FSX engine. Kind regards, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DylanM Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 2 hours ago, John Venema said: Those expecting substantial performance improvements will be disappointed. Moving to 64-bit just gives Windows more memory address space versus 32-bit, so the days of VAS limits and OOMs will be over. However, DX11 is not a magic API that gives your existing GPU a sudden boost in power; if anything it's more complex and GPU intensive if new shaders and environmental effects are being called. Expect performance on par with P3Dv3.1, perhaps slightly better depending on how much the new FSX engine kernel is offloading tasks and threads to the GPU. Your current hardware is what it is, 64-bit/DX11 does not give it a performance boost at all, perhaps more overhead for more complex scene rendering. Excellent points John. With DX11, I'm expecting performance to be on par with P3D; let's see if DTG can compete with LM in the eye-candy space. I am disappointed that it isn't looking to leverage DX12. The command buffer and draw call optimization seem to be an excellent fit for a sim... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sightseer Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Well this is great news... two new flight simulators and what appears to be a desire to continue the open SDK approach for the bigger sim. I suspect that Flightschool will get panned for its appearance like MS Flight did. It is what it is though and theyve already said its closed to outside developers. I thought MS Flight had some good qualities. It just went in the wrong direction. This news appears to be two sims: one kinda like Flight and the bigger one to be like FSX/P3D. I personally will be happy to have alternatives to P3D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Kane Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 As soon as we have 64-bit then that opens things up to the developers to bring the sim back down to its knees once again, for example, perhaps Captain Sim will release a 777 model with 386 animated passengers plus crew that board and disembark the aircraft and move around the cabin with dinner service and use the really well modeled toilets that they have, as soon as we have that we will be complaining about performance once again. With developers the skies the limit....and we praise their creativity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyQ Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 9 minutes ago, ytzpilot said: As soon as we have 64-bit then that opens things up to the developers to bring the sim back down to its knees once again, for example, perhaps Captain Sim will release a 777 model with 386 animated passengers plus crew that board and disembark the aircraft and move around the cabin with dinner service and use the really well modeled toilets that they have, as soon as we have that we will be complaining about performance once again. LOL! Is the glass half full, or half empty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabble Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 21 minutes ago, ytzpilot said: As soon as we have 64-bit then that opens things up to the developers to bring the sim back down to its knees once again Yup! The big advantage of a new 64-bit engine is that it would allow all sorts of improved techniques for the way it handles data (world, environment and aircraft), though that's likely to be at the expense of back-compatibility. Or put another way - if they maintain compatibility, then we remain bound to the limits of a decade-old engine with only an improved memory model. Me, I'd prefer it to break compatibility as long as we get that astounding new performance, and Orbx (and others) produce quality addons for it. Sure, it would cost to rebuild our collections - we couldn't expect free upgrades for a completely new data model - but that's the price of progress. It's about time our hobby returned to being state-of-the-art. Another tuppence of speculation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fischkopp Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 - deleted - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neucoas Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Talking about what Matthew said, For example, on DCS their new Nevada Test Range doesn't run well in machines with 8GB of RAM in general... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
be77solo Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 My biggest problem is now I can't regularly blissfully buy FSX/P3D addons anymore.... now I'm stuck questioning if it will be useless in 6 months. I've actually really enjoyed the stability over the years, and the fact P3D was compatible and offered nice improvements, I kept buying great new addons. I still remember buying FSX on launch day at WalMart.... the fact I still enjoy it daily in all new ways is a huge part of my enjoyment. I sort of picture my FSX/P3D world as a fantastic model collection/sandbox/train set type thing that has limitless bounds. Now all the sudden that's in jeopardy. I have all the other sims, but FSX/P3D is the only thing I've substantially invested in third party addons. The rest come and go like many other games I enjoy for a few weeks but then forget. What would get me excited is an announcement all our beloved addons could be installed in the new sim. Then I go back to simming and spending way too much money blissfully ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olderndirt Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 JV has spoken - several entries above. The way I figure, Dovetail didn't buy this for 'chump change' and are in business to make money. Surely they're well aware of previous attempts to revitalize FSX and their lack of success so I look for this forthcomer to be something better/different - hopefully both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabble Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 1 hour ago, be77solo said: My biggest problem is now I can't regularly blissfully buy FSX/P3D addons anymore.... now I'm stuck questioning if it will be useless in 6 months. Nah - any new sim isn't going to stop your current one from working. Assuming it will take some time for a new catalogue of addons to appear, most of us will continue using our current sim for some time after the launch of the new one, only gradually moving across (assuming it catches on). I don't plan to stop buying scenery before it appears - life is too short and the desire is too strong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy1252 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I've just bitten the bullet and am in the process of going to P3D 3.1 (from 2.5). Complete re-install of masses of stuff. P3D plus ORBX is pretty much what works for me right now so I'll be interested to see what DT come up with BUT for me the issue will be their business model. I also have FSX/SE, and made the mistake of buying an Alabeo R66 via Steam. Went to install it in P3D as well, as I would normally expect to be able to do quite legitimately with pretty much any add-on and found it was DRM restricted. Had to buy another copy direct from Alabeo (it's a REALLY nice little chopper) and sure enough, that copy is ok for all systems. No idea if the same issue applies with the ORBX releases via Steam - that was it for me, no more DLC from Steam, but if it all works that way - forget it. Feels way too much like being tied in to a single supplier and at their mercy. I'd be happy to be wrong though. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double J Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 2 hours ago, jabble said: Nah - any new sim isn't going to stop your current one from working. Assuming it will take some time for a new catalogue of addons to appear, most of us will continue using our current sim for some time after the launch of the new one, only gradually moving across (assuming it catches on). I don't plan to stop buying scenery before it appears - life is too short and the desire is too strong! Doesn't stop you from using it......does stop me from expanding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triplane Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 10 hours ago, John Venema said: Those expecting substantial performance improvements will be disappointed. Moving to 64-bit just gives Windows more memory address space versus 32-bit, so the days of VAS limits and OOMs will be over. However, DX11 is not a magic API that gives your existing GPU a sudden boost in power; if anything it's more complex and GPU intensive if new shaders and environmental effects are being called. Expect performance on par with P3Dv3.1, perhaps slightly better depending on how much the new FSX engine kernel is offloading tasks and threads to the GPU. Your current hardware is what it is, 64-bit/DX11 does not give it a performance boost at all, perhaps more overhead for more complex scene rendering. Not to mention the fact that none of the existing add-ons will work without a rewrite. Will I buy everything again just to get to a 64-bit process? Nope. For a thousand+ dollars I'll take the occasional OOM. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neucoas Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I've just bitten the bullet and am in the process of going to P3D 3.1 (from 2.5). Complete re-install of masses of stuff. P3D plus ORBX is pretty much what works for me right now so I'll be interested to see what DT come up with BUT for me the issue will be their business model. I also have FSX/SE, and made the mistake of buying an Alabeo R66 via Steam. Went to install it in P3D as well, as I would normally expect to be able to do quite legitimately with pretty much any add-on and found it was DRM restricted. Had to buy another copy direct from Alabeo (it's a REALLY nice little chopper) and sure enough, that copy is ok for all systems. No idea if the same issue applies with the ORBX releases via Steam - that was it for me, no more DLC from Steam, but if it all works that way - forget it. Feels way too much like being tied in to a single supplier and at their mercy. I'd be happy to be wrong though. Andy Yes. Its for all DLC. Thats why they are cheaper there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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