FSX... i think i want a Divorce !

[VAL067]

Hi Guys,,

 

Well im here cap in hand to ask a question thats most probably been asked a million times on here FSX or P3D.. but i want to hear from the people who have made the move from FSX to P3D and a honest appraisal of the pros and cons..My relationship with my FSX is like a bad marriage we have good days and extremely bad days and the bad days are wearing me down. I have bought her shiny new gifts and looked after her well and invested alot of time and money keeping her happy but every now and then she just chucks a wobbly or wont cooperate for no apparent reason and im kind of getting over it and eyeing out this new younger woman called P3D. Now life has taught me grass is never greener on the other side but from what i see in P3D the grass is greener the sky is bluer and the water is amazing..but its not all about looks another lesson life has taught me.. so is she stable and does she care for you as much as you care for her is what im asking and most importantly is there support for when things go pear shaped or will i have to hunt down obscure hints and fixes to make this relationship work and will it mind me giving her all those shiny gifts like scenery and airplanes without throwing them back in my face or will I spend hours tweaking for minimal amount of fun. Im angry now and maybe in a few hours i will decide to re install FSX and try and patch things up but for now i have uninstalled the bitch and shelved her in the cupboard for old games.

 

Thanks 

Val

[Hotspot]

Better the devil you know ..... and to tame her (if you wish) try DX10 with Steve's fixer before spending a lot of time on P3D. I shelved P3D after going over to FSX DX10, but my options are open when P3D becomes less problematic. Your decision now is not set in cement, so give it a whirl - after initial setting up DX10 is far less problematic for me than DX9 or P3D, performs better with no more bad days.. just a continual honeymoon... and may all your problems be little ones.

[VAL067]

Lols. .good point and I do have Steves DX10 fixer running and I think I know what's caused this latest riff but im getting a bit tired of continuous problem solving and tweaking. I just want to boot up and fly is that too much to ask.. Surely in this time and age someone can develop a flight sim that looks good out of the box and is stable. My god I have BF4 Skyrim Eve online and more intensive games that run like a dream.. sure they took some setting up and tweaking but the ratio is minimal input for maximum results..

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[jpreou]

I moved big-bang from FSX to P3Dv2 when my laptop died. FSX hasn't been installed since. P3D isn't perfect and I still get annoying CTDs from time to time, but honestly, I think a lot of that is to do with the very few non-P3D add-ons I have hooked in. Just because something 'works' in P3D, if it wasn't *written* for P3D then you *may* get some odd issues, especially between P3D updates when LM update underlying code that is used. I'm sure that is what I am seeing, though obviously no way to prove it.

 

Yes, also I can't use much of my ORBX scenery and some other NZ scenery as it is not yet compatible, but that will come in time. Meanwhile ORBX Global, Vector and PILOTs mesh are doing a stand-in job.

I'll never go back to FSX now. LM keep improving P3D with each iteration and my laptop runs it better than it did FSX. The downside for me is that it will cost me a new PC: LM keep pushing more and more and my laptop can't show me all the new good things, so a new PC will be the order of the day when finances become available.

 

Incidentally, I barely tweak at all. Just load it and go fly. I have better things to do. Then again, I suspect my expectations are much lower than others in this community!

[Adam Howarth]

I predict that the P3D v2.xxx series releases from 2.2 onwards will be what triggers a mass exodus to it. Version 2.1 was a disaster and highlighted great deficiencies in LM testing and release processes, but LM stepped up to the mark and in 2.2 they have root cause fixes for the very serious issues that came with 2.1.

 

FSX just needs to die. It had its time and its out of place now. Hacks like the DX10 fixer is just like trying to dressup grandma for a modelling photoshoot competition with women in their 20s. With P3D you get tesselation which will never occur in DX10. You get DX11 era shading, both vertex and pixel shading, that DX10 can never achieve.

[VAL067]

Your comment on Grandma being dressed up for modeling photo shoot is spot on.. its the way I felt when I installed DX10 fixer and right before my eyes I see those wardrobe malfunctions and makeup disintergrating... but after spending $40 you just want to believe and it does its job to a point but I felt a bit ripped off..its way over priced considering its nearly 50% of the purchase price of P3D and could have bought me more ORBX scenery. The jury is still out with me on DX10 fixer its why I haven't reviewed it yet on FSS..

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[Rob Newman]

The thing I've found about DX10 using Steve's fixer tool is that a lot of people are expecting the tool to be the holy grail of increased frame rates.

This simply is not the case. In my experience, Steve's tool does nothing for frame rates, and if that's what you're after, then sure... You're likely to be disappointed.

What it does do however is allow me to select higher settings with negligible impact, it also makes the memory usage much more efficient (still have to careful, but OOM errors are vastly reduced), plus I get those rather nice cockpit shadows now too.

For these reasons alone, it's a keeper... For me at least.

[VAL067]

Agree it makes for a smoother FSX and I did get a slight fps bonus my only problem with its over priced and feels like a band aid solution when the whole game needs life changing surgery. .ORBX is the cosmetic surgery but FSX needs a neurosurgeon and a cardiac specialist to fix it so it can run to today's expectations...

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[spirit_66]

Your decision only.

Spirit

[VAL067]

Yes true.. it will be my decision but can I base that on the response I received here and my research online .. I am not sure yet as the first response mentioned is it better the devil you know or am I willing to ride this new wave called P3D and take a gamble that maybe one day it will be what my expectations of what a flight sim in 2014 should be...No one seems sure either way which only stirs that feeling inside of reluctance to invest anymore time or money into simming until someone gets there act together..

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[Holy Cheese]

I think I can say I've moved over to P3D2.2 now, I haven't fired up FSX (using DX10 and Steve's fixer) since P3D2.2 came out. Sure, I get some annoying CTD's every now and then (usually when it loads to 100%, then just closes to the desktop without so much as a whisper), but I haven't had an OOM yet, and performance is pretty damn good.

 

I have installed all the available P2D2-ready ORBX products, all the FSDT/Flightbeam sceneries and all the UK2000 sceneries. I am now in the process of manually adding AI Traffic (using AIG flight plans and leaving out aircraft which may cause problems, such as the HTAI aircraft mentioned by Graham in his updated AU traffic pack). As yet, I don't have any really complex aircraft installed, apart from the A2A C172. 

 

I think the more people who make the move, the quicker other addon developers will follow the trend of ORBX and FSDT and make their products available. I'm really keen to see what is offered when developers start to make true P3D2 only products, rather than compatibility ports over from FSX. Exciting times ahead!

 

Jack

[bountyhunter]

Well I moved Big Bang style as well

and  it has been a pain...but just like when i first installed FSX its a 'tweaking' time, just to learn the best settings

I didn't migrate everything but have waited for the add on to be converted and installed  them as they have come along I think trying to force an add on that is not fully converted just adds to peoples woes

and to be honest was it worth it..............YES In my case it was

I am now at a point where (if i don't switch full shadows on they are a killer for me...but nice)  that I can get 40 fps across 3 screens with nearly
everything max'd and it looks and performs brilliantly (does slow down in cities).....it feels like a new sim

its just like FSX was when it first came out.....but LM are moving forward with the product and releasing patches....a breath of fresh air

but as others have said ...its your choice

[VAL067]

Thanks for your input Jack.. interesting point you made about people power and developers... I agree the sooner the development of specific P3D addons the less likely are we going to encounter the passing on of defective genes of FSX being encountered in P3D or any other program associated with flight simming. Am I wrong in thinking this shouldn't we just have a clean slate and build from there. You look at any other genre in pc gaming and the failures are usually the developers who tried to port an old and defective engine and tried to respray it.. the only successful engine that has been reused for many games would be the UNREAL engine and even that went through about four incarnations.

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[VAL067]

Thanks bountyhunter that's positive and informative..and pretty much on par with other experiences I have read online bar a few disgruntled ones ..it looks like there is a more positive affect since P3D 2.2 has come out but before that from my observation it was pretty much undecided even by the so called gurus of flight simming... looks like 2.2 is the start of something good.

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[mjrhealth]

So we have to take grannies clothes tp put on the new women, not so sure shel be impressed??

[eamonnshanahan]

For what it is worth, I went FSX -> P3D v2 -> v2.1 -> v2.2.

 

Probably for the first time, I have a stable system; very few CTD, but now OOM's.

 

I fly only light aircraft, and country secenery is my thing. I just love the cloud shadows; but Global and Vector help hugely as well.

 

LM are committed to this product and have a pathway.

 

Go for it, make the change, you will not be sorry!

 

Eamonn.

EIKY

[VAL067]

So we have to take grannies clothes tp put on the new women, not so sure shel be impressed??

Lol she wouldn't. .but as the good old saying goes you cant take mutton and dress it up as lamb..only if your willing to stew it for hours and hours.

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[Indy511]

Val,

I was about to spend some big bucks and build a new system similar to what you have now. Right now I have an HP desktop. Intel i7-2600 @3.40GHz 10GB RAM Nvidia GTX 550 TI Win7 Premium. A few weeks ago I decided to do a complete reinstall of W7, & FSX but instead of reinstalling using HP's W7 install disc that came with garbage I don't use, I purchased a W7 Premium OEM disc. I other thing I did different this time was follow NickN's instructions. http://www.simforums.com/forums/the-fsx-computer-system-the-bible-by-nickn_topic46211.html This took a lot of reading and a least three days till I was back in the virtual skies. And I have to say it was well worth it. Smooth flights with settings nearly maxed out and an OS that runs good too. It has ended my tweaking for good.

[wedge1047]

I was fortunate in that I upgraded my system at just the right time, thus I now have FSX with DX10 on its own HDD and P3dv2.2 also on its own drive.

That gives me the best of both worlds gradually building up P3d as more addons become available whilst still having the benefit of all my FSX stuff.

After 2.2 , P3d is now starting to hold its own and as others have said it is now nicely usable, the advantage being it will only get better.

If you are in the position to do it, run them both , you then get a real comparison on your own system rather than having to rely on much appreciated advice from the rest of us here who are all using different set ups.

P3d stil has its problems but it is moving forward, who said'Patience is a Virtue'

Regerds Reg

[Tore Stranden]

I think the more people who make the move, the quicker other addon developers will follow the trend of ORBX and FSDT and make their products available. I'm really keen to see what is offered when developers start to make true P3D2 only products, rather than compatibility ports over from FSX. Exciting times ahead!

 

Jack

 

To develop only P3D2 means that developers can use 4096px textures in the scenery, and it will reduce the number of draw calls, which means much better FPS, and opportunities to create even more detailed scenery. It will also save time when there is less texture files to deal with. This reminds me of earlier times when there were only Netscape and Explorer. As a web designer I had to make two different websites ... luckily it's not like that today! Anyway, I have no doubt that P3D is the future platform.

[Mark Abdey]

If space is not an issue, there is no reason not to keep both on your system. Its what I am doing for the time being, as I still like to use the Orbx scenery that has yet to be given triple installers. You also have 60days to evaluate P3D and get a full refund, so there is no pressure to switch suddenly from one platform to another. Keeping both also allows for a slow build of add-ons, rather than feeling you have to populate the new sim with everything you have in one go. You can evaluate exactly what you really want to use, and what works best in the new sim.

 

The grass is mostly greener on the P3D side of the fence, but there are a few things that are better in FSX... The water for one... for me FSX DX9 water piddles all over V2's and I hope LM improve the appearance in the future. Its not possible to get the same level of AA in P3D at least not without a much bigger performance hit, and the wonderful half v-sync option does not work, which makes my FSX so beautifully fluid... I'm hoping this will be addressed in future nV driver updates, when V2 is given proper support.

 

What P3D does have overrides all those negatives though and by a huge margin... the Volumetric Fog, the cloud shadows and other advanced shadow options, the pop free Autogen, HDR and a sim that does not need loads of tweaking [i'm using one cfg entry for affinity] is truly a delight.

 

I would urge anyone to try it, as its risk free... but give it some time, running a default P3D coming from a well set-up and add-on loaded FSX is a bit of a shock to start with. However its best to take some time getting it working well in that form on your system and then add your favourite FTX area that has a triple installer and see the difference.

[VonClout]

I'm almost completely P3Dv2 now although I have Steve's DX10 fixer installed as I occasionally use FSX when I want to fly around EU-England. To be honest with NCA, PNW and Global running on P3D2 without a hitch I'm really enjoying simming again.

 

Looking at your specs I don't think you will have any worries running it and you will be able to have most settings at max.

 

Once you've flown through a P3Dv2 cloud, experienced the cloud shadows moving accross the landscape as well as 'ooohing and aaahing' at the ORBX lighting you won't want to touch FSX ever again!

 

Simon

[tuisong]

I too have moved completely to P3Dv2. I am having a few problems which I am sure are more to do with me and my setup, than the sim. Though things are slowly coming right. Having said that, I have no regrets at all. As has been said above, it is the future. And even at this stage is IMHO leaving FSX for dead.

[VAL067]

Bills511 thanks great post going through it now..love this guys style no BS which is a fresh breath of air.. trying to reinstall FSX now only to find its uninstalling has caused my pc to blue screen on restarts... oh well going to go through all this again ..lols

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[VAL067]

Thanks guys really positive posts and as I said earlier it loooks like 2.2 has really pushed forward from the bad experience of P3D users in the past .. Mark and Von clout thanks guys for your insight.. I will be installing P3D as soon as I get back to work. . Getting FSX to this stage has eaten my budget and patience.. all I really miss is flying my A2A aircraft so im going to takw some time to get this reinstall done right and just minimize cfg tweaks and most probably stick with DX9 and wait till I get P3D.

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[mjrhealth]

Ill be there soo nenough but enjoying FSx and DX10

[Arwen]

After my new computer arrived last August, I decided wait for P3D v.2 instead of installing FSX, and I sooo glad that I went that route.  P3D (and Orbx FTX) have resulted in the best flightsim experience I have ever had . . . I am totally amazed every single time that I fly at how realistic and immersive this sim has become (I'm using Active Sky Next, for live weather conditions).

 

VAL067, I hope that your experience with P3D is as good as mine has been.  I own A2A's J3 Piper Cub and their C172 Trainer, and they both run great in the P3D v.2.2.  The C172 is the aircraft that I fly the most. Let me know if you need help installing either of these aircraft in P3D.

[rockliffe]

I'm slowly moving my Orbx sceneries across to P3D and maintaining all my NGX flights in European Aerosoft sceneries to FSX until which time all the airports are P3D friendly. My brief exposure with P3D has certainly left me convinced that it is definitely the future. BTW, what is it with P3d water? I mean, what is the big issue to get the water in P3D to look half as good as FSX instead of looking like some plastic, pseudo swimming pool. What is it all about? It looks like a dog's dinner!

[GlennH]

I have P3D 2.2 installed but at the moment, FSX still gets most of my attention.

 

Reasons:

 

1. As already mentioned, the water in P3D is nasty. I have REX4 as well and nothing helps. It just looks bad
   
2. AA - I cannot for the life of me get P3D to look anywhere close to my current FSX AA of 8xS + 2xSGSS
   
3. Micro Stuttering - without the 1/2 refresh rate option, P3D is noticably less smooth than my FSX
   
4. Performance - All the nice features come at a huge cost. Disabling those nice new features still doesnt give me the same FPS level as I get in FSX. NCA region around SFO is a prime example.
   
5. Reality XP - Doesnt work in P3D
   
6. Blurries -  Even with an AF setting to use all cores (15) P3D still produces noticably more blurries than FSX
   

The shadows in P3d are really nice but whats the point if you have to turn them off to get fluid performance?

 

Anyway, no doubt that P3D is the future. Its just not there yet for me personally.

[teecee]

Probably too late now (I am 16hrs behind you guys back home) but I have to say this. I have both FSX and Prepar3d 1.3 on my system and at this time FSX is killing prepar3d.. after going to DX10 I have not looked back with FSX, and have rarely started Prepar3d in many weeks.. my FSX runs smoothly with great looking scenery.. natural colours, and good FR, and the moving shadows really bring the sim to life. I will eventually go to whatever version of Prepar3d is out at some time, but not now.. I love my FSX as she is.

PS. Thanks for a great read in your initial post Val067. What a treat for this expat to read some genuine strine as she is spoken. Teecee.

[Arwen]

P3D2 and P3D1 are not the same product.  That is like comparing FS9 to P3D2.

 

The water in P3D v.2.2 looks as good as water in FSX ever did to me (I never bought the DX10 fixer or any water/weather texture addon). Water can look very different in different areas and there are some areas that could definitely use improvement, but most of the water that I have seen in P3D was not the "nasty," "plastic" stuff some of you have characterized it as.  Maybe this is because I'm running with most of the settings set pretty high (water detail and tessellation factor are both set to ultra). Here's a screenshot I took yesterday in Darrington, WA (the only texture addon I'm using here is Orbx NA PNW):

 

 

I'm a kayaker, and I raced sailboats in college, so I do notice the water when I'm fying.  Look at the water in my screenshot and then look at the water in my avatar photo.

[GlennH]

You cant possibly be serious?

 

DX9 water in FSX (with REX) simply blows P3D v2.2 water away. Its not even close!

 

Even in FSX the wave size looks too big but in P3D its bordering on the ridiculous.

 

I have tried every combination of settings and REX4 textures and wave animations in P3D but it just isnt possible to get it looking half decent.

[anfield ace]

Hi Guys,

 

Well after months of shall I, or shall I not, I think I'm ready for purchasing P3D 2.2 professional, sometime in the next few days!!

 

Because of my modest rig, I'll just run the basic download for a while, and see how my rig copes with it, before installing all my Orbx sceneries!!

 

Cheers,

[rockliffe]

I agree Glenn, FSX with REX sparkling theme is IMO, literally in a different league to anything I have experienced in P3D or using the DX10 fixer.

[spirit_66]

You cant possibly be serious?

 

DX9 water in FSX (with REX) simply blows P3D v2.2 water away. Its not even close!

 

Even in FSX the wave size looks too big but in P3D its bordering on the ridiculous.

 

I have tried every combination of settings and REX4 textures and wave animations in P3D but it just isnt possible to get it looking half decent.

One day we'll have such water.

Spirit

 

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqadlHVoGR8

[Arwen]

You cant possibly be serious?

 

DX9 water in FSX (with REX) simply blows P3D v2.2 water away. Its not even close!

 

Even in FSX the wave size looks too big but in P3D its bordering on the ridiculous.

 

I have tried every combination of settings and REX4 textures and wave animations in P3D but it just isnt possible to get it looking half decent.

 

When I wrote: "The water in P3D v.2.2 looks as good as water in FSX ever did to me (I never bought the DX10 fixer or any water/weather texture addon).", I was very clear that I was comparing the DEFAULT water in both sims. Unlike FSX, P3D2 is still in development and one of the things that will likely be improved is the water.  My point (and screenshot), was just that I don't find P3D2's water to be as ugly as others have.

[DylanM]

Ageed Arwen - there a few settings that need to be set to enure the waves and textures look right in P3D, given that the waves are now dynamic (including tesselation, water effects, and texture resoluton). I posted them somewhere else on the forum.

[DylanM]

I have P3D 2.2 installed but at the moment, FSX still gets most of my attention.

 

Reasons:

 

1. As already mentioned, the water in P3D is nasty. I have REX4 as well and nothing helps. It just looks bad

AA - I cannot for the life of me get P3D to look anywhere close to my current FSX AA of 8xS + 2xSGSS

Micro Stuttering - without the 1/2 refresh rate option, P3D is noticably less smooth than my FSX

Performance - All the nice features come at a huge cost. Disabling those nice new features still doesnt give me the same FPS level as I get in FSX. NCA region around SFO is a prime example.

Reality XP - Doesnt work in P3D

Blurries -  Even with an AF setting to use all cores (15) P3D still produces noticably more blurries than FSX

The shadows in P3d are really nice but whats the point if you have to turn them off to get fluid performance?

 

Anyway, no doubt that P3D is the future. Its just not there yet for me personally.

 

Glenn, your GTX 770 is similar to my 680, so you should be getting much better performance than you are.

 

Try a couple of these:

- Try frames at unlimited (this helps with blurries and stutters)

- Try vsync / triple buffering on and off and see what gets you a smoother experience

- Set Fiber Frame Time Fraction to 0.1 in your config to smooth out terrain paging (it was waiting too long with the default of 0.33)

- Set the nvidia inspector P3D profile to default (at least for a start - this seems to be the cause for stutters for some)

- If you can, try enabling HT - P3D seems to be making better use of threading

[Mark Abdey]

Default FSX and default P3Dv2.2 water looks very similar, it is just a shame v2 does not respond to adding textures and animations via REX in the same way as FSX does... you can improve it for sure, but not to the same degree.

 

One thing FSX can't do with water is using tessellation to create a 3D surface that responds to wind direction and strength, which can look impressive, esp when close up.

 

 

And this is why I love the new platform so much.

 

[VAL067]

Well at least you know you have a team behind it working to improve it without having to look for fixes and it might be a simple coding thing to get it to perform better with Rex.. but honestly from what I have seen the water in P3D 2.2 is quite amazing. .maybe not as pretty but it is dynamic and the shore lines dont have those stupid breakers like FSX the breaking waves bring the shoreline to life in P3D. .

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