FSX... i think i want a Divorce !

[VAL067]

Sometimes developers use that line when they cant get things running for now..though i dont believe that about LM it has been trodded out over the years by many different companies when things dont work in the present. My belief is simple if it works good with today's hardware and software well the the future writes itself. Cant see what they don't have today that will affect them any time in the near future.. We have DX11, 64bit, we have SLI, we have AA, AF and a million other texture filters and HT ... these are here and present now.. work to get them right first for today's user. Seen too many developers in my years of PC gaming trodd out statements that try and reassure all is well only to suddenly go M.I.A or then start blaming the user and their hardware.Its not easy the PC side of this i know been gaming for 25 years and not like console where everything is uniform so there are a lot of different setups to cater for but this is not the dark ages of PC gaming anymore and those excuses went out the door 5 years ago... NVIDIA took along time to realize this and they have set the benchmark on the whole PC side of things and how to deal with it. Now its up to the developers to do the same. LM need to get NVIDIA on board to include them in their drivers and testing. thats what other game developers do to get optimum performance and allround player satisfaction. Wouldnt it be good to see your next driver update giving you a specific boost for P3D or FSX like i get with all my other PC games ..

[GlennH]

The 1/2 refresh rate vsync support at a driver level is VITAL as far as I am concerned.

[teecee]

"Well I have just reinstalled FSX basic DX9 for now.."

This caught my eye Val.

I saw such a great improvement in FSX with DX10, in fact it is the reason that I am staying with FSX for now.. that and my low card rating.. Will your system not run DX10? or is there another reason for running DX9? Teecee.

[VAL067]

Its only till im sure I have it stable Teecee..just tried DX10 now looked great smooth as a babies bum and then froze ...ran dx9 same route no input no problem... I think I know what it could be I had all my Rex settings still on dx9 while running fsx in DX10. .so the short of it is still running tests.. I have kept cfg to a minimum for now..Im sort of taking advice I got from NickN install bible..I have lowered my expectations on eye candy and more on a stable fsx.. I got too carried away with thinking my system could max it all but I have realized that it means crap when it comes to FSX..It just dosent utilize the hardware to its advantages so getting the balance right is more important for now..The best way I can describe it is my system has a whole bunch of escalators but FSX just wants to use the stairs.

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[VAL067]

Just done test flight Sydney to Cape York.. DX10,, REX, and FTXAU4....settings pretty much maxed except autogen at very dense.. left textures at 1024 for this test and matched that to all my Rex settings.. Locked frame rate in FSX at 31 and 1/2 refresh rate in NV inspector as well  8xAA  8xAF 8xSGSS.. Solid all the way no glitches stutters or Blurries..Stayed at FL 5000-8000 most of the way with occasional dive and swoop. So im flying again and im trying to appease this girl by not pushing too hard too fast.. I have deliberately minimized the content to my scenery library with just AUS SP4 for now will test NZSI soon. Anyway here is a shot of somewhere on the coast and i can live with the textures at 1024 as there is no blur and no struggle everything is sharp and steady. Thanks to everyone for your contribution and i will be investing in P3D ASAP .. but its good to be flying again there is no other feeling like it in the PC realm no matter what platform we use,, that's why we do it and why we put up with the crap we get dealt as Flight Simmers..Blue Skies all..

 

Thanks Val 

 

[teecee]

Blue side up mate.. you can't beat it. Teecee.

[Venturi]

Just done test flight Sydney to Cape York.. DX10,, REX, and FTXAU4....settings pretty much maxed except autogen at very dense.. left textures at 1024 for this test and matched that to all my Rex settings.. Locked frame rate in FSX at 31 and 1/2 refresh rate in NV inspector as well  8xAA  8xAF 8xSGSS.. Solid all the way no glitches stutters or Blurries..Stayed at FL 5000-8000 most of the way with occasional dive and swoop. So im flying again and im trying to appease this girl by not pushing too hard too fast.. I have deliberately minimized the content to my scenery library with just AUS SP4 for now will test NZSI soon. Anyway here is a shot of somewhere on the coast and i can live with the textures at 1024 as there is no blur and no struggle everything is sharp and steady. Thanks to everyone for your contribution and i will be investing in P3D ASAP .. but its good to be flying again there is no other feeling like it in the PC realm no matter what platform we use,, that's why we do it and why we put up with the crap we get dealt as Flight Simmers..Blue Skies all..

 

Thanks Val 

 

"Stayed at FL 5000-8000 most of the way "  whats under the bonnet? 

 

If you want to load saved library sceneries have a look at this amazing free program, also does separate FSX.cfg tweaks for all your flights and 100 other things. I dont fly without it!

 

SIm starter   http://aviation.pero-online.de

Zoran, these are my hands-on observations. P3D is 10-40 fps faster than FSX in heavy scenery on my system, and 5-20 fps faster with the eye candy on (cloud shadows, HDR, cockpit shadows, ultra water, etc.). This is on my 680.

Im sure you do that card is made for P3d ! 

[VAL067]

Thanks Zoran..exactly what I need..bumped it all up to 2048 and did the same route but not all the way and its sweeter then ever...will. not be pushing 4096 anymore its where I think it struggles and my autogen is backed up a bit and it all makes for smoothies and no blurries.. im a happy chappy for now..im settled on this its not worth pushing it... I found it will work perfectly one day and shit itself the next so no more tweaking it dtays as is...Zoran I had to P51 Stang so set it at cruise settings usually 40MP and about 2300rpm and she sits at 250mph and chews minimal fuel and every now and the crank it up and you go nuts..lols

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[Mallard]

The results look great! I also never go above 2048 with the textures... Seems to be a great compromise between quality and performance.

 

Glad to see you've got it settled

 

Cheers

 

Mallard

[VAL067]

Thanks Mallard...it looks even better now on 2048 and will get some shots off tonight.but more important it feels and performs stable. . Also I think too much cfg crap and too many addons overloaded scenery library are detrimental to stability. My cfg gile is basic as no BP tweaks or anything that takes it away from what was generated..Just added the essential Highmem and of course AA & AF triggers. But touch wood as you know my luck with FSX is not good .. Hope by end of year I will have a rig dedicated to Sim and P3D will be the main sim on it..

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[anfield ace]

Hi Guys,

Pardon my ignorance, how do you change your settings ie 2048 etc? Is this done via your graphics card?

Thanks,

[VAL067]

Hey mate in your cfg file you will have a line called..Max textureload=1024.. change the value to 2048 or 4096 if you want.

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[skyflash]

Seriously, I do believe that SOME people have stuttering problems with Prepar3d, but the thing is... I do not, and many people don't. For every customer complaining about stuttering in Prepar3d v2.2 you have like 1000 peacefully flying and not saying anything.

 

I have Prepar3d running on an GTX 680, a GTX 780, a GTX Titan and a GTX780M and NONE of these setups have any sort of stuttering.

 

If Kosta says that FSX addons are making your Prepar3d perform bad, then please realize that this is the fault of those FSX addons. Reason being, like most FSX addons were not programmed to be threaded, which is very bad on Prepar3d. In the best case, FSX addons will drag down your Prepar3d to the same speed as your FSX, because the addon is the bottleneck that slows it all down.

 

In the best case however, with a properly programmed Prepar3d addon, it will be about 100% to 400% faster than any FSX addon could ever be doing the same job.

 

So if you want a nicely working Prepar3d without any stuttering and high FPS, just do this:

 

1. Always fresh, full installs of Prepar3d.

2. Always install on a secondary SSD.

3. Don't tweak Prepar3d, or don't complain.

4. Never, ever, install any poorly programmed FSX addons.

5. Use graphic settings that make sense for your rig. Everything at 100% is always wrong, no matter your system.

6. And of course, do not install anything below Prepar3d v2.2

 

The only time I have seen stuttering is when I did not delete all my old configs and folders, or if I installed on the system harddrive, or when I installed on a HD that was not an SSD, or when I screwed up the addon I am developing.

[VAL067]

Thanks for the heads up on that mate.. definitely will take that all into consideration. .nicely outlined and explained. . I think you can also convert all those tips for FSX aswell.. especially old configs and folders..SSD is a good tip aswell .. I reinstalled FSX on my SSD even though its my system one but apart from Win7 its the only thing in here...and its made a big difference. Hoping to get another SSD drive soon to move it over.

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[kaboki]

Wow!

 

How do you get your volumetric fog to behave like that?

 

If I use it, the effect is too much and puts a fog on everything. 

 

Im using Opus weather engine

 

You have to have Vol fog enabled in Prepar3d and in Opus settings for it too work correctly... Sometimes the Vol fog option gets disabled after restarting the sim so you may have to check it each time before flying (maybe it has been fixed now, dunno, been awhile since I used Opus)

[kaboki]

Seriously, I do believe that SOME people have stuttering problems with Prepar3d, but the thing is... I do not, and many people don't. For every customer complaining about stuttering in Prepar3d v2.2 you have like 1000 peacefully flying and not saying anything.

 

I have Prepar3d running on an GTX 680, a GTX 780, a GTX Titan and a GTX780M and NONE of these setups have any sort of stuttering.

 

If Kosta says that FSX addons are making your Prepar3d perform bad, then please realize that this is the fault of those FSX addons. Reason being, like most FSX addons were not programmed to be threaded, which is very bad on Prepar3d. In the best case, FSX addons will drag down your Prepar3d to the same speed as your FSX, because the addon is the bottleneck that slows it all down.

 

In the best case however, with a properly programmed Prepar3d addon, it will be about 100% to 400% faster than any FSX addon could ever be doing the same job.

 

So if you want a nicely working Prepar3d without any stuttering and high FPS, just do this:

 

1. Always fresh, full installs of Prepar3d.

2. Always install on a secondary SSD.

3. Don't tweak Prepar3d, or don't complain.

4. Never, ever, install any poorly programmed FSX addons.

5. Use graphic settings that make sense for your rig. Everything at 100% is always wrong, no matter your system.

6. And of course, do not install anything below Prepar3d v2.2

 

The only time I have seen stuttering is when I did not delete all my old configs and folders, or if I installed on the system harddrive, or when I installed on a HD that was not an SSD, or when I screwed up the addon I am developing.

 

Show me a P3Dv2 video 100% free off microstutters.....I have yet to see one and yet to expirence myself a stutterfree enviroment in P3Dv2. I'm 100% sure we all see them but some choose not to notice them,,, I agree with kosta that we need that 1/2 VSYNC refreshrate from Nvidia to work in P3Dv2. What I noticed in my own P3DV2 setup and in all the videos I've seen around is that these small stutters come in burst every 2-3 seconds and it looks the same on all videos and systems, and the closer to ground we fly they gets more noticeable. P3Dv2 has a stutter issue, that's a fact!! I can even turn all the settings to minimums and still notice these annoying stutters..

[tuisong]

I have enjoyed following this topic, thanks for starting it Val.

I realise it is focused on the graphics side of the sims, however, one of the things I like about P3Dv2.2 is the ability to have the engine and cockpit sounds coming from the speakers and the ATC in the headset. Something I could not find a way to do with FSX.

[VAL067]

Thanks Tuisong.. its been a great insight into the whole topic and also my lack of knowledge about the workings of both FSX and P3D. One thing that has come to the fore is expectations of how our Sims should be performing... I know personally I have lowered mine especially after reading NickN install bible..out of all the reading I have done on installing and tweaking from every Sim guru out there its the only one who doesn't pull any punches.. I didnt agree with everything but he made me reasses my expectations.. As for the debate on which sim well I am eventually going to run both...You can make your own assessment and people will not change their mind about what they believe thats human nature. . I myself will be more open minded and will question so called gurus from this point on and not take everything they say as gospel..

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[GlennH]

Seriously, I do believe that SOME people have stuttering problems with Prepar3d, but the thing is... I do not, and many people don't. For every customer complaining about stuttering in Prepar3d v2.2 you have like 1000 peacefully flying and not saying anything.

 

I have Prepar3d running on an GTX 680, a GTX 780, a GTX Titan and a GTX780M and NONE of these setups have any sort of stuttering.

 

If Kosta says that FSX addons are making your Prepar3d perform bad, then please realize that this is the fault of those FSX addons. Reason being, like most FSX addons were not programmed to be threaded, which is very bad on Prepar3d. In the best case, FSX addons will drag down your Prepar3d to the same speed as your FSX, because the addon is the bottleneck that slows it all down.

 

In the best case however, with a properly programmed Prepar3d addon, it will be about 100% to 400% faster than any FSX addon could ever be doing the same job.

 

So if you want a nicely working Prepar3d without any stuttering and high FPS, just do this:

 

1. Always fresh, full installs of Prepar3d.

2. Always install on a secondary SSD.

3. Don't tweak Prepar3d, or don't complain.

4. Never, ever, install any poorly programmed FSX addons.

5. Use graphic settings that make sense for your rig. Everything at 100% is always wrong, no matter your system.

6. And of course, do not install anything below Prepar3d v2.2

 

The only time I have seen stuttering is when I did not delete all my old configs and folders, or if I installed on the system harddrive, or when I installed on a HD that was not an SSD, or when I screwed up the addon I am developing.

Sorry don't agree.

Every install I have seen of p3d has micro stutters present.... Every single one. JuSt compare it to FSX running with vsync at half refresh rate with the sim locked at 30 fps. It's night and day different. Let's not even start with the crappy AA in p3d as well.....

If you can't see the micro stutters or choose not to see them then either way it's good for you!

This won't get fixed until nvidia start supporting 1/2 refresh rate vsync at a driver level.

[VAL067]

So nvidia support is vital...my thoughts exactly on the future of P3D from what I have assessed so far.cant see why they haven't sort it by now when drivers and driver configs are usually the cause of most people's problems with software. The developer can spend all the time they like on trying to resolve issues but if the drivers are not cooperative and doing what needs to be done then its all a waste of time..because what they fix today will be undone by the next driver update. But just a question GlennH are they your installs or just ones you have seen online.?

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[John Lovell]

You have to have Vol fog enabled in Prepar3d and in Opus settings for it too work correctly... Sometimes the Vol fog option gets disabled after restarting the sim so you may have to check it each time before flying (maybe it has been fixed now, dunno, been awhile since I used Opus)

 

Thanks. Did try that, but still not great... it looks nice for screen shots, but can't have it on all the time.

 

Will have to wait until that come up with a fix for that. I do believe Opus are working with LM on that  

[DylanM]

Show me a P3Dv2 video 100% free off microstutters.....I have yet to see one and yet to expirence myself a stutterfree enviroment in P3Dv2. I'm 100% sure we all see them but some choose not to notice them,,, I agree with kosta that we need that 1/2 VSYNC refreshrate from Nvidia to work in P3Dv2. What I noticed in my own P3DV2 setup and in all the videos I've seen around is that these small stutters come in burst every 2-3 seconds and it looks the same on all videos and systems, and the closer to ground we fly they gets more noticeable. P3Dv2 has a stutter issue, that's a fact!! I can even turn all the settings to minimums and still notice these annoying stutters..

 

It's a fact on your system - not mine (I'm on Win 8.1 with vsync off, without image tearing). I only get an initial stutter when I aproach an area of heavy custom autogen (e.g. KSEA or YVR) and the terrain / autogen is loaded in.

 

Look on the P3D forums for tips to help you with your stutters... I've found a low FFTF and a custom affinity mask (with HT enabled) works best on my system.

[kaboki]

It's a fact on your system - not mine (I'm on Win 8.1 with vsync off, without image tearing). I only get a stutter when I aproach an area of heavy custom autogen (e.g. KSEA or YVR) and the terrain / autogen is loaded in.

 

Could you show me a video because I don't belive you. Seen videos from people running Titans and high end CPU's and still those stutters are seen (please shoot the video with you looking out the side windows while taking off, then I can analyze your so called stuttefree expirience)..... Only way I can remove the stutters is to get drunk, then Im less likely too notice them.

Reinstalled FSX again today and damn what a relief flying stutterfree, only thing I miss is HDR and vol fog and cocpit shadows but running things stutterfree makes up for that.

Still have Prepar3dv2 installed just to see if things improve with future patches(keeping my hopes up).

[SolRayz]

My biggest concerns with P3DV2

 

-Obnoxious spinning clouds, particularly for trackIR users.

-Addon compatibility, particularly from developers like RealAir and PMDG

-Performance in heavy clouds and urban areas

-Lack of proper SGSS AA and the performance penalty when forced in NI, even with the latest hardware.  

-Terrain shadowing is very underwhelming and at a significant performance penalty

-Lackluster configuration screen and time not following time zone when switching airports from that screen.

 

IN MY OPINION, DX10 offers a nice balance of features, without most of those issues listed. Terrain shadowing has  taken a major step back, especially for those that use Shade in FSX with almost no perforance penalty. 

[VAL067]

I don't quite understand the last thing you said about terrain shadowing taking a major step back when using Shade.. I understand the performance part because I use it and never had an issue. Though I don't have it running atm because im deliberately keeping addons at a minimum for now.

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[Arwen]

It's a fact on your system - not mine (I'm on Win 8.1 with vsync off, without image tearing). I only get an initial stutter when I aproach an area of heavy custom autogen (e.g. KSEA or YVR) and the terrain / autogen is loaded in.

 

Look on the P3D forums for tips to help you with your stutters... I've found a low FFTF and a custom affinity mask (with HT enabled) works best on my system.

 

I'm also running P3D 2.2 on Win 8.1 with vsync off (also not getting any image tearing issues).  My Affinity Mask is set at 242 (my only edit to the Prepar3D.CFG). I'm not using nVidia Inspector.

 

And I have only very minor stutters, and only in certain areas (like KSEA). I'm also running Active Sky Next, and Orbx's PNW (Vector and FS 2010 Global mesh). Most of my flying is stutter free.

 

kaboki, it doesn't matter to me if you believe us or not. And I'm not going to waste my time try to 'prove' this to you with a video . . . because I don't have a video recording setup that is capable of recording anything that doesn't introduce its own micro-stutters (and I would suggest this is the reason why all the videos you've seen of P3D2 appear to have micor-stutters). The only reason that I took the time to post this is that there is a LOT of misinformation being posted about P3D2.  Like FSX, P3D2 results in very different performance on different systems. Some system can enable cloud shadows with very little impact, while others get a major FPS drop with them. Just because you are getting stutters on your system, and the videos you've watched seem to show stutters, that doesn't make it a fact that everyone running P3D2 is suffering from constant stutters.

[Rolfspan]

P3D V2.2 for me soon. I was waiting for the ability to fly using Vatsim ATC. That is now possible with Vpilot even in P3D. The other hold back was the fact that my Saitek X65F would not work in P3D v2.2, no matter what I tried. Saitek/MadKatz is replacing it since it is no longer available which is awful decent of them. The replacement is the Rhino. That will be coming shortly and then uninstalling FSX and I hope to find instructions somewhere to do it right with all my addons which are mostly from Orbx.

[kaboki]

kaboki, it doesn't matter to me if you believe us or not. And I'm not going to waste my time try to 'prove' this to you with a video . . . because I don't have a video recording setup that is capable of recording anything that doesn't introduce its own micro-stutters (and I would suggest this is the reason why all the videos you've seen of P3D2 appear to have micor-stutters). The only reason that I took the time to post this is that there is a LOT of misinformation being posted about P3D2.  Like FSX, P3D2 results in very different performance on different systems. Some system can enable cloud shadows with very little impact, while others get a major FPS drop with them. Just because you are getting stutters on your system, and the videos you've watched seem to show stutters, that doesn't make it a fact that everyone running P3D2 is suffering from constant stutters.

 

I guess it doesn't matter, but I still don't beleive you guys/gals . What I really can't understand is that no matter how much I turn settings down the stutter still is there even with frames well up in the hundreds in rural areas in the middle of fu.cking nowhere. You could easily make a video by recording it with a external video camera/cellphone then it won't induce stutters into the sim. I you can deliver me a video without stutters when looking out the side windows during takeoff, I'll freaking buy your system for 100K(yes Im about willing to pay almost anything to remove my stutters!!).

 

To the OP, if you gonna dive into P3Dv2, make sure too keep FSX installed too, because you might regret that divorce sooner than you think. I whas stupid enough to uninstall FSX with all my addons when P3Dv2 whas released and now Im stuck with a dreadful reinstall of FSX.

[Wolf2grey]

Still like my good ole' FSX. I like a couple of others have stated, have never had OOM and CTD. I also do not run my sliders all the way to the right either so I guess that is why. Just starting to have fun making airports (my friend Creekdog that is)  and painting planes so new life for FSX again. Whatever your drug of choice I say. Happy Flying ALL!!!

[Wolf2grey]

Hi Guys,

Pardon my ignorance, how do you change your settings ie 2048 etc? Is this done via your graphics card?

Thanks,

fsx.cfg file..................................

[anfield ace]

Thanks Guys, re: settings in fsx.cfg file....noted!

 

Cheers,

[jabloomf1230]

BTW, what is it with P3d water?

Some things to try, if you haven't done so already:

 

1. Mesh resolution to the max.

Tessellation to Ultra

Water settings to Ultra

Try all three at once and use a helicopter. Fly low over the water and see what you see. The water rendering in P3d is actually done by a third party product from the same company that authored SkyMAXX Pro for XP10:

 

http://sundog-soft.com/sds/2014/04/better-swells-spray-whitecaps-triton-2-78/

 

Lastly, the REX 4 Direct water textures and wave animation improved things for me in P3d 2.2. As per REX's directions, you need to have Cloud Reflections set to On. If you have REX 4 Direct, experiment with different water animations.

[VAL067]

The water in that video is amazing is it like that in P3D..? The good thing i can see about that is the water should keep improving having a 3rd party company just specialized in that field.

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[rockliffe]

Some things to try, if you haven't done so already:

 

1. Mesh resolution to the max.

Tessellation to Ultra

Water settings to Ultra

Try all three at once and use a helicopter. Fly low over the water and see what you see. The water rendering in P3d is actually done by a third party product from the same company that authored SkyMAXX Pro for XP10:

 

http://sundog-soft.com/sds/2014/04/better-swells-spray-whitecaps-triton-2-78/

 

Lastly, the REX 4 Direct water textures and wave animation improved things for me in P3d 2.2. As per REX's directions, you need to have Cloud Reflections set to On. If you have REX 4 Direct, experiment with different water animations.

 

Mmm, OK, thanks for the tips. I suspect running at the settings you suggest will have a big impact on frames? I'll check it out later, cheers.

[superdelphinus]

I've not used fsx since v2.2 was released actually, just p3d v2.2 and xp10 10.25. Will probably change when (eventually) the service pack for the pmdg 777 is released

[Mark Abdey]

I most certainly do not get stutters all the time, as in, there is no constant or regular microstutter, but I do sometimes go though periods of getting a sort of ripple, or shudder... a collection of little stutters that group together at regular intervals, but these a few and far between. It also seems impossible to turn v-sync off... I can turn it off in the sim, and make sure I do not have it forced on anywhere else, but it always seems enabled; not that I want it off, but it is an odd one.

[superdelphinus]

Life's to short to really care about small stutters anyway isn't it? Does anyone actually use flight simulators to fly anymore?! If you get the settings right for your system, p3d is very smooth and you don't need to spend days fiddling with things and can just forget about it and start flying.

[kaboki]

Dont' get me wrong tough with my negativety on stutters, Im sure someday it' will get fixed and I think all people intrested in civ flight simming should invest in this platform too support LM for doing this project and letting us in on it.

I have it laying on the side for experimenting but Im now 100% back in FSX for all my "flying".

After having thinkered with P3D now since release, it felt really good being back flying in good old FSX(DX9) with smooth stutterfree flying(GA), and I haven't missed the shadows, HDR, vol fog yet and somethings even look better in FSX(water) and all in all I kinda feel I really didn't loose much going back.  

[kaboki]

Life's to short to really care about small stutters anyway isn't it? Does anyone actually use flight simulators to fly anymore?! If you get the settings right for your system, p3d is very smooth and you don't need to spend days fiddling with things and can just forget about it and start flying.

 

It's the opposite for me, life is too short for accepting what's the most annoying immersion killer in any flight sim/game and that is stutters. I hate them it takes away the whole feeling of flying as far as it can be achived on a computer, I loose the sense of speed and the lanscape passing by when stuttering ruins the feeling of floating through the air, hard to explain but it's alfa omega to get rid of them. Only time I put up with them is when flying tubes because then Im so busy with all the instruments, procedures and checklists  so I haven't time to notice them. Maybe Im weird but it's just the way I feel about it.

[Venturi]

Life is not to short, Its the longest thing you can do! 

 

Im with kaboki and the majority of serious simmers. Stutters are an immersion killer