ANSWERED Mesh - Clarification

[StefanSchaefer]

Hello all!

 

I can see a lot of rumors are ongoing. So here some clarification and facts:

In FTX/FSG Vector there are certain elements, which need to come
with their eleveation value hardcoded.

 

So, one is stuck: you can do it for FSX (in many areas wrong) default mesh. Then in
certain areas it will not look good on an add-on mesh.

Or you can do it for an add-on mesh, then in certain areas it will not
look good in default mesh.

 

Many considerations had to take place. What happens, if someone has a
certain mesh just in one area? What happens, if meshes differ? What, if a
new sim (eg. P3D ...) will introduce a slightly amended mesh? etc, etc.
There can not be "a patch", since the whole product is affected by the changes.

 

After some time we concluded:
It does not make sense to use Vector, if one does not also care about
mesh. Why would one have streets, rivers, lakes exactly drawn in FS, if one would not
also like to have these rivers and streets run smoothly through valleys and lakes fill
mountain bassins? What sense does it make to have a nice coastline, but the steep cliff
is missing? What sense does it make to have the correct outline of an island, but it being flat?

So our decision was clear to concept for the current industry
standard, which is SRTM. If you have any SRTM based mesh installed, Vector
will draw beautifully. (Except for real bugs of course.)

To be clear, in many areas the normal default mesh of FSX will be quite OK
as well, as it also is based on SRTM, but not the whole globe is included.

So it is not a requirement (vs e.g FTX Global textures, which ARE a requirement).
If you do not fly in areas of bad FSX default mesh (such as e.g. South America) you
should/will not notice a mesh related problem.

 

Our policy is:

If you wish to fly in areas outside of good default mesh, you should consider to get
an SRTM based mesh, such as FS Global 2010 FTX. We have made that available in an updated
version at a very competitive price given the coverage. If you already have a mesh, good.
It should work. If you have another mesh than FS Global 2010, good. It should work, if it is
SRTM based or more accurate. Of course it also is clear, that we have tested mostly with
our own product line and if problems arise, these will be fixed. FS Global 2010 and Ultimate
meshes will definitely work with Vector. Earlier (2005/2008) not in all areas, since these did
not yet have global coverage. 

 

Bottom line:

It may make sense to have a mesh product installed and no vector product.

 

It definitely makes no sense to have a vector product installed without a
good mesh. No river, no street, no nothing will follow a valley correctly!

 

PILOT'S mesh, PILOT'S/ORBX Vector, ORBX LC and texture plus PILOT'S Real Weather make a
completely new world in all its layers!

 

 

Stefan Schaefer
C.E.O.
PILOT'S GesmbH

[teecee]

I am not qiuite sure.. does Pilots mesh do anything for the Orbx areas? Teecee.

[Andyphone]

The FTX regions you mean

 

I am not qiuite sure.. does Pilots mesh do anything for the Orbx areas? Teecee.

The FTX Regions you mean? Those have their own mesh I think.

 

Ciao

[ChaoticBeauty]

Will the newest version, FS Global Ultimate, work along FTX Global Vector without airport elevation issues, or is FS Global 2010 FTX Edition the only add-on mesh that is fully compatible? What about other meshes like FSGenesis?

[Andyphone]

Stefan thank you very much for your detailed and kind explanation. All that makes more than sense to me. Only problem I see is that probably it had to be made clear earlier. Should probably also (my opinion) be specified in shorter terms on the product page mainly for those who are going to buy Vector and don't even know much about mesh and all the rest.

 

Thanks again. Ciao

Will the newest version, FS Global Ultimate, work along FTX Global Vector without airport elevation issues, or is FS Global 2010 FTX Edition the only add-on mesh that is fully compatible? What about other meshes like FSGenesis?

 

It was reported in other topics as well in this by Stefan that any mesh is good as long as it is a good mesh, meaning it has to be SRTM based (Ultimate and Genesis are).

 

Ciao

[rockliffe]

Stefan, while I appreciate your explanation of the problem a lot of us are experiencing, it nevetheless leaves a lot of customers with a  product that is useless unless we purchase an expensive addon mesh. I have been using UTX Europe for the past three years, without a SINGLE issue with elevations. The very day I install Vector, I have experienced at least half a dozen, during the short time I did some flying.

 

While I agree with your reasoning and sentiments regarding the logical approach of installing mesh, not everyone will want to have their Vector files manipulated in such a way that they either have to put up with a lot of scenery anomolies, purchase a mesh which they might not want or uninstall Vector and watch £40 go down the drain!

 

It may well be that you think it makes no sense to use Vector without a good mesh product, but Stefan, that is your opinion and not one that may be shared by customers. From a personal point of view, what do you suggest I now do? I have Vector installed, but do not wish to have a third party mesh. Neither can I afford to purchase one at this moment in time.

 

I have always been a strong and ardent supporter of Orbx products, and hopefully will remain so. To be frank, I feel this issue needs to be addressed, otherwise it will leave people feeling very disappointed. Cheers...

[RJ]

Stefan, while I appreciate your explanation of the problem a lot of us are experiencing, it nevetheless leaves a lot of customers with a  product that is useless unless we purchase an expensive addon mesh. I have been using UTX Europe for the past three years, without a SINGLE issue with elevations. The very day I install Vector, I have experienced at least half a dozen, during the short time I did some flying.

 

While I agree with your reasoning and sentiments regarding the logical approach of installing mesh, not everyone will want to have their Vector files manipulated in such a way that they either have to put up with a lot of scenery anomolies, purchase a mesh which they might not want or uninstall Vector and watch £40 go down the drain!

 

It may well be that you think it makes no sense to use Vector without a good mesh product, but Stefan, that is your opinion and not one that may be shared by customers. From a personal point of view, what do you suggest I now do? I have Vector installed, but do not wish to have a third party mesh. Neither can I afford to purchase one at this moment in time.

 

I have always been a strong and ardent supporter of Orbx products, and hopefully will remain so. To be frank, I feel this issue needs to be addressed, otherwise it will leave people feeling very disappointed. Cheers...

Perfect! 

[FSRobert]

Stefan, I to as Howard am very happy with your explanation concerning Mesh issues in the product FTX Global Vector, it makes perfect sense and your knowledge on this should very well be respected by everyone.

 

I in fact have both FSGlobal 2005 and FSGlobal 2008 which I purchased from PILOT'S GesmbH and was under the impressing that it was WORLD Mesh, but now reading your explanation here I read that it is not. "  Earlier (2005/2008) not in all areas, since these did not yet have global coverage. "  Reading on back of the FSGlobal 2008 DVD box it says it covers the WHOLE Flight sim world in 63 time more detail.  

 

I have all the respect that FSGlobal 2010 is one of the best flight sim meshes to be purchased and am confident that it works very well if not perfect in FTX Global vector.

 

I guess my concern is Business ethics of the advertisement of the ORBX product in question.  It is obvious that you knew of the mesh issues concerning FTX Global Vector due to your explanation concerning mesh clarification. Now,I am wondering if the CEO from FTX also knew or was he not told?  

 

The bottom line it got released and many good trusting customers took the step and purchased another FTX product as well all have done over the years but, this time a negative effect  has taken place.  It is my hope that corrections can be made in a positive direction without spending more money to make FTX Global Vector to work properly.  

 

I just want to keep the FSFaith.  

 

 

 

 

[chicken_3h]

Hi Stefan and others reading this thread.

 

I'm disappointed about the way this product "captures" my FSX Installation. No Uninstaller, no easy way of manual removal (lots of files spread over various scenery folders) and finally these mesh issues. No warning in any readme file given that some places come with hardcoded elevation. No Tool for configuration to switch off unwanted Airport Elevation Corrections - why not? And the only way to get rid of these AEC issues is most probably buying the proper ORBX-mesh that is not available yet (created by Pilot's, just by coincidence... haha) - sorry to say, but this is not the correct way to deal with customers.

 

I have tried several mesh products (FSGenesis Europe 76m, Intermap NextMap Germany 4.9m, New FS Genesis Germany 19m) with FTX Vector, but still I get various airport plateaus (e.g. 48°58.92N, 08°19.43E @ EDTK), where there have been none before the install of FTX Vector. And so Stefan's point, that any mesh of good source is okay, is wrong.

 

Like Rockliffe I used UTX without any of those issues for some years now. And I second him: I don't want to be forced to use the only mesh that seems to be compatible with FTX Vector for now. This is a No-Go. By the way, is there any proof that this kind of anticipated compatibilty is really a fact, or is it just wishful thinking? Once more: I want to have a choice. If a product is announced as "Vector" i want it to be exactly this and ONLY this. No Trojan-Horse-AEC-Mesh shipped along with it.

 

Good evening.

Christian

[RJ]

Hi Stefan and others reading this thread.

 

I'm disappointed about the way this product "captures" my FSX Installation. No Uninstaller, no easy way of manual removal (lots of files spread over various scenery folders) and finally these mesh issues. No warning in any readme file given that some places come with hardcoded elevation. No Tool for configuration to switch off unwanted Airport Elevation Corrections - why not? And the only way to get rid of these AEC issues is most probably buying the proper ORBX-mesh that is not available yet (created by Pilot's, just by coincidence... haha) - sorry to say, but this is not the correct way to deal with customers.

 

I have tried several mesh products (FSGenesis Europe 76m, Intermap NextMap Germany 4.9m, New FS Genesis Germany 19m) with FTX Vector, but still I get various airport plateaus (e.g. 48°58.92N, 08°19.43E @ EDTK), where there have been none before the install of FTX Vector. And so Stefan's point, that any mesh of good source is okay, is wrong.

 

Like Rockliffe I used UTX without any of those issues for some years now. And I second him: I don't want to be forced to use the only mesh that seems to be compatible with FTX Vector for now. This is a No-Go. By the way, is there any proof that this kind of anticipated compatibilty is really a fact, or is it just wishful thinking? Once more: I want to have a choice. If a product is announced as "Vector" i want it to be exactly this and ONLY this. No Trojan-Horse-AEC-Mesh shipped along with it.

 

Good evening.

Christian

Basically, we have the same opinion! From another post:

 

"That's why you release a product AFTER it has been fully tested. You don't rush a product just to meet a deadline, if that was the case. Basically, Microsoft does that a lot. What I find irritating is this thing to leave to paying customers the burden to test something. After a long house renovation I spent most of December fine adjusting my FSX, fixing lots of incompatibilities here and there, tweaking FSX.cfg, organizing folders, updating sceneries, etc. Now that everything is almost ready I don't want to start flying and find bugs all over the place. I bought Vector but didn't install it yet mainly after reading a lot of posts complaining about something.

 

And what about this mesh thing? First, I do have payware and freeware mesh but are these FULLY COMPATIBLE with Vector to fully enjoy it or are you forced to buy yet ANOTHER software, made by the same company that developed Vector, to work the way it should be?

 

The way things look is like buying that sought after product, paying for it, just to realize that it won't work thoroughly unless you buy other complements made by the same company that sold the product in the first place." 

[rockliffe]

I also think the term 'use a good quality mesh' is rather flaky and open to be misconstrued. I mean, what does a 'good quality mesh' mean? There are several meshes available which can all be seen as 'good quality' but vary in resolution. So if they vary in resolution then surely Vector will only be compatible with whatever mesh it was designed to work with, meaning there will be some 'good quality' meshes that will still have issues. This is rather ambiguous at best IMO.

[RJ]

I also think the term 'use a good quality mesh' is rather flaky and open to be misconstrued. I mean, what does a 'good quality mesh' mean? There are several meshes available which can all be seen as 'good quality' but vary in resolution. So if they vary in resolution then surely Vector will only be compatible with whatever mesh it was designed to work with, meaning there will be some 'good quality' meshes that will still have issues. This is rather ambiguous at best IMO.

Exactly what I think! 

[kattz]

I'm sorry, guys, but I have to be the "odd man out".  I bought Vector within 2 minutes of release, and the first thing I saw when reading the manual was "OMG, I don't have THIS terrain mesh".  So I purchased the Pilots FS Global 2010 FTX Edition and am having zero issues.  No black rivers, no weird textures, etc.  Every time I've had an issue over at AVSIM, the RTFM nutzies come crawling out of the woodwork.  So this time and with this large of a system change, I asked questions on this forum before buying, and RTFM'd.  No issues.  The manual shows FSGlobal 2010 as their bottom layer.  Why chance anything else?  After all, in the end I am the sim builder, so I must take some measure of responsibility for what it looks like.

 

Kattz

[Mike62]

Stefan, while I appreciate your explanation of the problem a lot of us are experiencing, it nevetheless leaves a lot of customers with a  product that is useless unless we purchase an expensive addon mesh. I have been using UTX Europe for the past three years, without a SINGLE issue with elevations. The very day I install Vector, I have experienced at least half a dozen, during the short time I did some flying.

 

While I agree with your reasoning and sentiments regarding the logical approach of installing mesh, not everyone will want to have their Vector files manipulated in such a way that they either have to put up with a lot of scenery anomolies, purchase a mesh which they might not want or uninstall Vector and watch £40 go down the drain!

 

It may well be that you think it makes no sense to use Vector without a good mesh product, but Stefan, that is your opinion and not one that may be shared by customers. From a personal point of view, what do you suggest I now do? I have Vector installed, but do not wish to have a third party mesh. Neither can I afford to purchase one at this moment in time.

 

I have always been a strong and ardent supporter of Orbx products, and hopefully will remain so. To be frank, I feel this issue needs to be addressed, otherwise it will leave people feeling very disappointed. Cheers...

Well said, I have FS Genissess galaxy memberbship and have all the current mesh products included with that package.   I was under the impression that the airport correction tool was to be included with Vector.   Is this not the case?  Do we need another expensive mesh product (I am unemployed so all is expensive too me), to have all airports corrected.   If so I feel like I have been swindled or cheated.   I have all of the faith in Orbx but becoming concerned with Pilot's.    I am becoming to think they created the vector product to sell more of there products.  I may never fly in the areas that have problems but still feel this should have been posted before release.

 

Mike

[norfolk mike]

Stefan, while I appreciate your explanation of the problem a lot of us are experiencing, it nevetheless leaves a lot of customers with a  product that is useless unless we purchase an expensive addon mesh. I have been using UTX Europe for the past three years, without a SINGLE issue with elevations. The very day I install Vector, I have experienced at least half a dozen, during the short time I did some flying.

 

I have always been a strong and ardent supporter of Orbx products, and hopefully will remain so. To be frank, I feel this issue needs to be addressed, otherwise it will leave people feeling very disappointed. Cheers...

 

I'm sure you have echoed many user's sentiments there rockliffe, including my own. I too have been using UTX for years, without ever having felt the need to purchase an upgraded mesh, or ever having experienced a problem.

Some of the video footage uploaded demonstrating how Vectors enhances the FSX world suggested the only add-ons used were FTX Global, and Vectors. There was NO mention of a third party mesh whatsoever, until an eagle eyed viewer spotted the omission, forcing an apology and subsequent correction to the post. An oversight? I'd like to think so, but I cannot help but wonder what that glorious showcase would have looked like if it HAD merely been Global, with Vectors! A bit like the dozens of non Pilots 2010 screenshots displayed across this forum maybe?

 

Yes, its a big project, and issues were anticipated. But, when pressed for a release date, we were told in no uncertain terms that it would only be released when it was good and ready, and that the end users wouldn't want to be "Beta Testers". Guess what?

 

I just think that all concerned have been very evasive over this whole vectorgate saga. Was it hoped that once folk had bought into Vectors, then the additional £50 outlay for mesh would be merely shrugged off? Was it assumed that people would feel responsible for not having already purchased a quality mesh, and feel almost embarrassed about their naivety? Clearly, the team are ambitious about releasing pay ware airports for Global, and it can be assumed that they'll be made with Pilots 2010 mesh in mind. Ultimately, its probably in all our interests to eventually own their mesh, so we can play on a level field, but like you, I don't like the way its being brought about. Not OrbXs finest hour.

 

As it stands, I'll stick with UTX and probably buy their North American coverage eventually. Its tried and tested, user friendly and it doesn't necessitate a further outlay way in excess of its purchase price.  It didn't escape my notice that the devs couldn't resist plugging Pilot's real weather amongst this mayhem lol. If REX is one day held responsible for breaking something in FTX then I'm well and truly off the bandwagon! lol.

 

I'm being overly cynical. Its because I'm disappointed and once I've flown around Walter Sutton's in the Waco I'll probably see things differently. I blame those guys who are always waving their credit cards around whenever anything is proposed, begging the team to take their cash lol. I'm off for a fly.

[rockliffe]

I'm sorry, guys, but I have to be the "odd man out".  I bought Vector within 2 minutes of release, and the first thing I saw when reading the manual was "OMG, I don't have THIS terrain mesh".  So I purchased the Pilots FS Global 2010 FTX Edition and am having zero issues.  No black rivers, no weird textures, etc.  Every time I've had an issue over at AVSIM, the RTFM nutzies come crawling out of the woodwork.  So this time and with this large of a system change, I asked questions on this forum before buying, and RTFM'd.  No issues.  The manual shows FSGlobal 2010 as their bottom layer.  Why chance anything else?  After all, in the end I am the sim builder, so I must take some measure of responsibility for what it looks like.

 

Kattz

 

Kattz, me old mate, what you say is right and we no doubt all agree, Vector will work better with a good Mesh. The issue here is that Vector has been sold with no indication that it is mandatory to have a third party mesh, if you want things to look correct.

[pmb]

The manual shows FSGlobal 2010 as their bottom layer.  Why chance anything else?.

 

Kattz

Hi Kattz,

 

perhaps, because you already spent 150 Euros (equivalent to 5 full ORBX regions) for another mesh?

 

Kind regards, Michael

[fly37]

With all my respect for ORBX, I'm very disappointed and very suprised... that is not a etic attitude.. I wait for a necessary solution!

 

fly37 Gianni

[Astarot]

I still don't even understand, why FSGlobal 2010 was used as their bottom layer in Vector, when the supposedly better FSGlobal Ultimate was already available. And since i don't know where all the data for those products came from (same source? different source? mixed sources?), i can't even know if there will arise other issues by maybe chosing Ultimate over 2010. And maybe in six months, they arrive with a supposedly even better FSGlobal (which naturally would fix all remaining issues...) for another "measly" 100 Euro.

[NoLonger]

why FSGlobal 2010 was used as their bottom layer in Vector

 

Because that version could be released as a download with the FTX logo on it AND it is within price range of your regular Orbx customer. Other versions were too large to download and Orbx only wants to sell downloadable products or they were too expensive and would limit the amount of sold Vector copies. This was part of a deal between Orbx and Pilot's: it wasn't a choice for quality but for business possibilities.

[Astarot]

Because that version could be released as a download with the FTX logo on it AND it is within price range of your regular Orbx customer. Other versions were too large to download and Orbx only wants to sell downloadable products or they were too expensive and would limit the amount of sold Vector copies. This was part of a deal between Orbx and Pilot's: it wasn't a choice for quality but for business possibilities.

 

Thank you for the clarification. Anyways. This whole story smells a bit to much of business possibilities, and to little of quality.

[NoLonger]

Thank you for the clarification.

 

Take not that this is my personal interpretation of it all. It's not what Orbx has communicated.

[Astarot]

Take not that this is my personal interpretation of it all. It's not what Orbx has communicated.

 

Well. In any case, it's the only convincing explanation, that i heard until now.

[Andyphone]

I understand the choice of FS Global 2010 as explained in the post, I also can understand that such product with vectors covering the entire world regions would have issues to be corrected once released (impossible to test every area without many users). Like others what I don't absolutely like is the fact that Vector was advertised as working with or without PILOT'S mesh while obviously it is not like that. Something is wrong here: the project, public relations or the businnes strategy behind that because I still want to believe (actually I am pretty sure) it was not their intention to fool customers.

 

Ciao

[jpreou]

I do agree that the product page for Vector could have been clearer with respect to 'required' mesh, but I'm with Katz.

 

I had no mesh. I did my research. I saw that the FTX mesh was preferred and I bought it. I have no issues (so far).

 

But for those saying that Vector should work with any mesh / no mesh. Why? Just because that is what you want. PILOTs made a decision: to have one of their products work best with another of their products because a) it made sense technically, and they must have believed it makes sense from a business standpoint [time will tell on that, of course].

 

If that doesn't suit you because you don't want to be tied to one company (though many of you are happily 'tied' to ORBX in a big way), or because you already have mesh, or because you don't want to fork out more $$$ just to get the best experience. Well, make your decision and buy, or not, as you see fit.

 

If you have already purchased and have issues because you do not have the FTX mesh, well, then the cynic in me says you should have done more research and understood what you were getting into.

 Though I will concede that the product page should have been clearer too. As always due diligence is required as for any purchase. If you don't do your research then YMMV. Caveat Emptor.

 

For one, I am a happy FTX Global 2010 mesh / FTX Global Vector customer.

[Andyphone]

Of course dealing with FSX or P3D with their add-ons requires a little knowledge about what you're doing and installing, but not all the people are into the technical stuff with mesh, textures, layers, vectors, landclasses, and all the rest. I understand it all but nonetheless I really thought (actually it was stated in this same forum by Orbx) that Vector would come with an option to use the mesh (and so be better looking and almost perfect compared to the real world) or not to use the mesh and so live with the FSX original mesh and/or elevations and their related problems... What I read on the forums lead anyway to believe that would be the situation with Vector. It's not only me, and we are not stupid people. What happens instead is that if you don't have the mesh Vector creates more problems than the original FSX and you cannot do nothing about it, not even uninstall since there is not an uninstaller.

 

Of course I will also be an happy customers since I have the FS Global 2010 mesh and I will get Vector, but to those who will not be happy all I can say is: complain, this was cleary Orbx big fail. Anyway everybody can make mistakes. I am sure they will find a solution to this as well.

 

Ciao

[PatrickM]

Hello,

 

do we have the chance to see FSGlobal Ultimate as a download version? I only have FSGlobal Europe & Africa...

[kattz]

Kattz, me old mate, what you say is right and we no doubt all agree, Vector will work better with a good Mesh. The issue here is that Vector has been sold with no indication that it is mandatory to have a third party mesh, if you want things to look correct.

I read the post by PILOTS at the site.  I had another terrain mesh (freeware), but not this one, so I took the plunge.  However, in fairness to you it is not said at the site of purchase, and that should be changed IMO.

 

Hi Kattz,

 

perhaps, because you already spent 150 Euros (equivalent to 5 full ORBX regions) for another mesh?

 

Kind regards, Michael

 

Hi, Michael,

 

No, I don't think I could bring myself to spend that much.  However, if you have a high-quality mesh like FS Genesis or the like, you could use it in place of the FS Global product.  If you have spent 150 EU for a mesh, it should be the cat's meow.

 

EDIT:  I've seen several posts where people are referring to 100+ EU for terrain mesh.  Just out of curiosity, what are you buying?

 

Best,

 

Kevin

[mdeisenr]

IMHO the thing is, like with any other software you buy, it should have been stated clearly and for everyone easy to read, that whatever other product is needed (ORBX Global) or highly recommended (mesh) to have this product up and running.

It´s just not enough to post it in whatever forums (not everyone is reading prior to buying) or in the manual (that is normally read after buying the product).

Just to give us customers an easy to realise choice.

In my understanding of CRM there´s no room for expecting customers to have a deep read in order to be aware of what´s to be expected of the product. Make it clear and easy to see.

Simple as that.

And this is what leaves "a sour taste" in terms of business strategy and customer relations.

 

 

Cheers, Matthias

 

Edit: @ Kevin: Global Ultimate is sold for 100,- €

[Marius Lungan]

I do agree that the product page for Vector could have been clearer with respect to 'required' mesh, but I'm with Katz.

 

I had no mesh. I did my research. I saw that the FTX mesh was preferred and I bought it. I have no issues (so far).

 

But for those saying that Vector should work with any mesh / no mesh. Why? Just because that is what you want. PILOTs made a decision: to have one of their products work best with another of their products because a) it made sense technically, and they must have believed it makes sense from a business standpoint [time will tell on that, of course].

 

If that doesn't suit you because you don't want to be tied to one company (though many of you are happily 'tied' to ORBX in a big way), or because you already have mesh, or because you don't want to fork out more $$$ just to get the best experience. Well, make your decision and buy, or not, as you see fit.

 

If you have already purchased and have issues because you do not have the FTX mesh, well, then the cynic in me says you should have done more research and understood what you were getting into.

 Though I will concede that the product page should have been clearer too. As always due diligence is required as for any purchase. If you don't do your research then YMMV. Caveat Emptor.

 

For one, I am a happy FTX Global 2010 mesh / FTX Global Vector customer.

Hello everyone,

 

I see that you all talking about haveing a mesh product or not BUT I whant to know whats happend and why (me and some others) have problems with *out of memory* and crashes of FSX???

I have post a topic about it and nobody answer( I have posted pictures with errors too) - http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/70611-error-fsx-texture-pmdg-texture-after-vector-instaled/

In my opinion, it is more important to work like it has to, before elevation problems or mesh compatibilitys - problems that it will be for sure resolved with patches from ORBX Team.

 

Please pay little atention to my post and please, again, ORBX team to give me also a solution or minimum an opinion !!

 

Best Regards

 

Marius L.

[kattz]

Wow...  I think I'll pop right over there to that post...  I think I replied already, but...

[jaseman007]

Stefan, while I appreciate your explanation of the problem a lot of us are experiencing, it nevetheless leaves a lot of customers with a  product that is useless unless we purchase an expensive addon mesh. I have been using UTX Europe for the past three years, without a SINGLE issue with elevations. The very day I install Vector, I have experienced at least half a dozen, during the short time I did some flying.

 

While I agree with your reasoning and sentiments regarding the logical approach of installing mesh, not everyone will want to have their Vector files manipulated in such a way that they either have to put up with a lot of scenery anomolies, purchase a mesh which they might not want or uninstall Vector and watch £40 go down the drain!

 

It may well be that you think it makes no sense to use Vector without a good mesh product, but Stefan, that is your opinion and not one that may be shared by customers. From a personal point of view, what do you suggest I now do? I have Vector installed, but do not wish to have a third party mesh. Neither can I afford to purchase one at this moment in time.

 

I have always been a strong and ardent supporter of Orbx products, and hopefully will remain so. To be frank, I feel this issue needs to be addressed, otherwise it will leave people feeling very disappointed. Cheers...

+1

I am and will always be an "ORBX" man. All products to date have improved my sim experience beyond my imagination so I'm grateful for that.

I am disappointed with VECTOR though. I was not aware that I would need to fork out more $$$ to make vector work the way it should so I'm a little peeved.

I'm not sure if purchasing mesh will fix duplicate bridges?? That part has me miffed and I haven't seen any of the duplicate bridge questions answered.

Jas

[Ripcord]

I do agree that the product page for Vector could have been clearer with respect to 'required' mesh, but I'm with Katz.

 

I had no mesh. I did my research. I saw that the FTX mesh was preferred and I bought it. I have no issues (so far).

 

But for those saying that Vector should work with any mesh / no mesh. Why? Just because that is what you want. PILOTs made a decision: to have one of their products work best with another of their products because a) it made sense technically, and they must have believed it makes sense from a business standpoint [time will tell on that, of course].

 

If that doesn't suit you because you don't want to be tied to one company (though many of you are happily 'tied' to ORBX in a big way), or because you already have mesh, or because you don't want to fork out more $$$ just to get the best experience. Well, make your decision and buy, or not, as you see fit.

 

If you have already purchased and have issues because you do not have the FTX mesh, well, then the cynic in me says you should have done more research and understood what you were getting into.

 Though I will concede that the product page should have been clearer too. As always due diligence is required as for any purchase. If you don't do your research then YMMV. Caveat Emptor.

 

For one, I am a happy FTX Global 2010 mesh / FTX Global Vector customer.

+ 1 here.

I had FS Genesis and grew weary of them. Uninstalled it all and went with FS Global. All of this before Vector so maybe I am fortunate.

I do believe, in any case, that using FS Genesis (remember JV assured us all this would be plenty adequate) does result in far less issues than running no mesh at all, and those are just functions of a service pack. They did their best during testing to check as many areas as possible, but there are 24,000+ airports in FSX. So there will be some that slip thru -- but when you read thru these threads, about all these 'nightmare' scenarios, try to note for yourself -- did the guy have no mesh or FS Genesis or some freeware?

[Rob Ainscough]

I'm very happy with FS Global 2010 FTX Edition and FTX Vector and FTX Global (yes there are bugs and hopefully they get sorted out) ... but from a programmers perspective, I don't see how you can separate a mesh (the polygon primitives) from those textures (surfaces) that will be associated with them and make it look good?

 

There is no other simulation or gaming product on the market (that I'm aware of) which has successfully separated polygon mesh from the textures used on those polygons and produced realistic results.  It's like trying to apply a bear's texture onto a Tiger's polygon/objects.  All games are carefully handcrafted textures made to fit specific polygons so as to look "real".  Mixing and matching polygon mesh with different textures is never ever going to produce really good results.

 

I can understand Orbx vision, because to get the best visual experience, the "layers" of P3D/FSX need to be ONE.

 

My 2 cents.

[Andyphone]

robains I understand this too, now. Problem is they should have made clear alla this well before, not leading us to think without mesh all will be ok anyway.

Ciao

Inviato dal mio Nexus 4 utilizzando Tapatalk

[fjacobsen]

Though downloadable products normally aren´t possible to be refunded, I find it would be fair to offer that for those of us who don´t feel we got what we paid for.

 

I have now an installer residing on my computer for which I see no use, since I don´t plan to add any expensive mesh addon.

The problem is also that even those who have a addon mesh installed have lot´s of issues.

 

So bottom line...

Can we get a refund for this product ?

 

FSS0256755

 

FJ

[sanh]

I don't have mesh and neither do I want to buy one. Thankfully I did not buy vector immediately and will not be if it requires another product to be purchased as well to work.

[soundrats]

Hello, about FS Global 2010 FTX I like to ask if the well known elevation issues with some airports are solved or if it only solved for FTX airports?

Thnx for answering. Kind Regards Tom Weber

[StefanSchaefer]

Hello Tom!

 

If you have Vector V1.10 installed, yes, all airport elevation issues will be corrected (meaning, all airports with wrong altitude in FSX will get their correct one). Installing FSG 2010 alone will NOT fix them.

 

Cheers!

 

Stefan

[StefanSchaefer]

Hello again!

While browsing through the answers to my post I see, there still are open points, which need clarification.

First of all thank you for all your answers and expecially to those, who support us.

Some though still do not seem to understand: You can only make a Vector product carrying contents like ours
for one defined altitude model (mesh). You can not have such a single Vector product work with two meshes.

So we had a choice of supporting FSX default mesh *OR* another 3D model.

Of course it is no option to support a mesh, which will render like this

 

versus one, which renders like that.
 

I again emphasize: Vector supports ALL SRTM meshes. There is no exception. FS Genesis, even freeware, as
there are many around.

What people who deny this mix up, is the fact, that not yet all airport elevations have been corrected. This leaves
some in a bathtub and some being an aircraft carrier. These are bugs and will be addressed.

With V1.10 *all* relevant airport elevations will be corrected to a value which makes sense. Remember, we still have a flat
airport concept to cope with! So, on a non flat surface, an airport using this concept will always generate hills
or walls at its edges, depending on the values the topography differes.

I am accused of not having told ORBX C.E.O. about the fact Vector is based on SRTM. I can assure you, this was a
joint descision. In fact the only one which makes sense. Basing Vector on FSX default mesh would have been no developement.
And w/o developement we would still climb trees.

Someone does not understand, why we would use FSG 2010 versus Ultimate as base. Well, I can tell you, the shape
of the earth is the same. These two products differ in resolution. Especially if you wish to have sharp ridges
in the mountains you should go for Ultimate. You can at any time swap between these meshes. Or even freeware.

And there was the cost factor: 18DVDs (Ultimate; bundleprice EUR 120,--) vs download (FSG2010; price EUR 59,--).
We wanted to have an economically priced alternative for those, who do not own a mesh scenery yet.

If more people are interested, we would also consider to offer the Ultimate Series as a download.

And yes, maybe we develope further and release a new version this year or next year or whenever.


Stefan Schaefer
PILOT'S GesmbH
C.E.O.