active Where does TE GB South P3D lose its fps?

[Nick Cooper]

Thanks Michael.

You will have seen the post before yours.

I think its time for everyone to take a deep breath, so it will temporarily lock this topic so that it goes no further off track.

Open again later, so if you have a comment, please save it up.

Thanks.

[Nick Cooper]

I would hope that the topic will regain its course now.

[Adam Banks]

Thanks, Nick. I was following this thread avidly - looking for hints, tips and suggestions.

 

I've [just] successfully installed TEGB on my way-too-old PC. It's a slide show but a gorgeous one! I'll be carefully working my way through all the info here.

 

For what it's worth - even after only a couple of trial flights - I suspect the old FSX/P3D engine struggles with the load (compared to XP11). I'm not surprised - and not really disappointed - it's a big ask, IMHO - I'll just adjust my system accordingly. Maybe Simstarter will make it a little less onerous for me!

 

Adam.

[GlennH]

On 2/10/2019 at 3:54 PM, kevinfirth said:

Who on earth would run without cloud shadows? :p

Anyone who values performance over eye-candy I would think.

[GlennH]

Duplicate

[flying_fish]

On 2/11/2019 at 12:46 AM, pmb said:

Now I don't know where to proceed from here

I'm glad the thread is open, as we do need a place to put our heads together. In terms of where to go next, I'm now going to wait for the control panel to be released, in the next week, we hear, and then retest using whatever settings are advised.

If we find that a group of us still have the same ground texture blurring, than we can look further. 

Meanwhile, having almost forgotten Valentines day (thank God for Orbx notifications) I will prepare a sumptuous meal for the wife, then sneak off and do some retail therapy at Orbx direct.

[DesertPilot]

So I got TEGB South for P3D (with my 40% discount, as I already own the XP version)...and was surprised to see P3D 4.4 taking a very long time to load and then running very slowly, with my 8700K CPU stuck at 100% and my 1080TI's 11GB of memory being fully utilized.  I do have FTX Vector installed and active, not sure if that's a factor.

 

I've decided to be patient and just wait for the upcoming Control Panel and P3D 4.5 (and perhaps deactivate FTX Vector), before I go back into this and figure out my optimal settings.  In the meantime, I'm having fun exploring all three TEGB regions (and all the Orbx GB airports ported to XP so far) in X-Plane.  

[NineMile41]

It looks like every one is having a frame rate problem with True Earth England P3Dv4.4 not so much with XPlane.

I am running on intel i9-9900K and Nvidia RTX 2070 and have no problems with any part of South England except large cities like London 9-15fps.

I am not in agreement with turning your P3D v4.4 down or to create a new profile this to me is patch work.

I also noticed that the problem has been identified by Lockheed Martin and ORBX  That fix is designed to help loading times for large scenery packages. According to Orbx developer, Allen Kriesman, the bug has been fixed with P3D V4.5.

I believe waiting for the new version is the answer the beta version is out now so in 3 month we will have a fix.

I will not wast any more time on this problem till the next version is out. 

[pmb]

6 minutes ago, NineMile41 said:

I believe waiting for the new version is the answer the beta version is out now so in 3 month we will have a fix.

I will not wast any more time on this problem till the next version is out. 

 

I understand loading times at 6% will be fixed with Prepar3d4.5, and I am positive it will. However, I don't recall any statements on improved performance using huge photo scenery with objects and autogen or avoiding blurry textures for those experiencing them. Maybe this will be a "side effect", but I will have to see this to believe it.

 

Kind regards, Michael

[NineMile41]

Hi Michael

I have another thought or question.

I have noticed when approaching London TE P3Dv4.4 my memory load hits 15.6 GB and I only have 16GB is it paging to the SSD to make up the difference and slowing the FPS?

Your thoughts appreciated. 

Regards Craig

[Traveller]

Maybe the LM resolves to retrofit the entire P3D's core, so that it can live up to the modern softwares.
If, in fact, this is done, I believe there will be better management of the CPU/GPU demand, as well as the memory available at the user terminal.
This was done with the transition from XP10 to XP11-64bit, DCS, etc.

[pmb]

10 minutes ago, NineMile41 said:

Hi Michael

I have another thought or question.

I have noticed when approaching London TE P3Dv4.4 my memory load hits 15.6 GB and I only have 16GB is it paging to the SSD to make up the difference and slowing the FPS?

Your thoughts appreciated. 

Regards Craig

I am not a hardware expert, bit I think that's well possible. As far as I know, Windows always pages to some extent, but in your case paging may become excessive slowing down the sim indeed. My system has 32 GB which should give enough spare space (...for now).

 

Kind reagrds, Michael

[NineMile41]

Well then my question is do you have a problem over London with 32GB TE P3Dv.4?

Thanks

[pmb]

8 minutes ago, NineMile41 said:

Well then my question is do you have a problem over London with 32GB TE P3Dv.4?

Thanks

I can fix the fps issue by taking back the Autogen + Scenery Distance slider to Medium. I can fix most of the stutters by deactivating all shadows. (Perhaps, it may not be necessary, to deactivate all of them, but I did.) Moreover I followed Nick's suggestion to lock fps to 20.

 

This makes London flyable for me, and I can essentially hold the 20 fps. Nearly all of the bad stuttering is gone.

 

I still have to find a solution for the blurry textures, though. I can clear them a bit close to the plane by switching off Dynamic Lighting and reducing resolution to 256. However, all beyond 2 miles looks bad, and notably the roads are ugly.

 

I made a flight in a C172, ~3000', from Heathrow via Southampton to Brighton yesterday, so most of this is rural area, grassland, small towns, small woods, etc. with the same result. Accordingly, my blurry terrain is not limited to London.

 

Kind regards, Michael

[NineMile41]

I have no problems running P3Dv4.4 without any blurry terrain in small towns anywhere in TE South England with a much higher setting then you are using.Only London Manchester and Bristol gives me problems. Which leads me to believe that the memory is not the issue otherwise you would have no blurry's.

Let's hope that 4.5 will fix this issue. It could also be that Traveller has some good points.

Thanks very much for your replies.

Cheers Craig

[joe_fackel]

11 hours ago, Traveller said:

Maybe the LM resolves to retrofit the entire P3D's core, so that it can live up to the modern softwares.

 

It is more or less already, the fairy tale of the "old FSX engine" is ...... just a fairy tale, the ESP engine is already rewritten to a huge extend.

[John Dow]

10 hours ago, pmb said:

I still have to find a solution for the blurry textures, though. I can clear them a bit close to the plane by switching off Dynamic Lighting and reducing resolution to 256. However, all

 

Untick all unnecessary scenery layers in your Scenery Library using a Scenery Config Editor if necessary (Freeware available).  Just have the layers below Bathymetry, TE GB South,  GE Airports, and ORBX Libraries.  Load times should massively reduce as well.

[John Dow]

I just did an experiment to make London flyable for me as part of a tour of the ORBX airports, as one of the legs goes directly over London.

 

In the folder Program Files\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4\ORBX\FTX_EU\FTX_EU_!GBS_05_SCENERY\scenery there are a lot of POI and similar bgls.  I have no idea what each bgl has in it but I randomly selected every second POI and similar bgl file and cut them to a location outside the folder (not deleted just parked) and tested a flight over London.

 

Frame rates were up by about 8 fps which doesn't sound much but it means that instead of getting 7-15 I'm now getting 15-25 fps with the sliders hard over to the right (but no shadows) , so it's gone from a slideshow to just not smooth.  Quite a few of the landmarks had disappeared, such as the Millenium Dome, The Shard etc, but the overall impression of London was still there, and for an overfly it is quite satisfactory.

 

So if the fidelity of the London scenery doesn't matter too much and you just want London to be there when doing flights in the South, it might be an alternative while waiting for the new control panel to come out.  Note this is NOT an Orbx recommended alternative, so if you're not comfortable with file manipulation, 'don't try this at home'.

 

The attached screenshot shows the files I parked outside the Scenery folder.  I have no idea what they do, some might not even relate to London, but they were enough to make the area flyable.  If you have a Scenery Design program maybe it would be possible to assess which bgls cover London and which could be cut out without affecting the look of it too much.

 

 

[pmb]

23 minutes ago, John Dow said:

 

Untick all unnecessary scenery layers in your Scenery Library using a Scenery Config Editor if necessary (Freeware available).  Just have the layers below Bathymetry, TE GB South,  GE Airports, and ORBX Libraries.  Load times should massively reduce as well.

Yes, that's true. After doing so I reached 4 min which I would call acceptable.

 

Unfortunately this included the "old" ORBX GB which I learned I should leave active to enjoy the enhanced airports and fly to the North of TE GB, and alle UK2000 airports plus the UK2000 lib which I would like to have active. 

 

But I've decided to put the load time issue to rest as I think this will be taken care of by LM soon. 

 

Kind regards, Michael

[John Dow]

27 minutes ago, pmb said:

Yes, that's true. After doing so I reached 4 min which I would call acceptable.

 

Unfortunately this included the "old" ORBX GB which I learned I should leave active to enjoy the enhanced airports and fly to the North of TE GB, and alle UK2000 airports plus the UK2000 lib which I would like to have active. 

 

But I've decided to put the load time issue to rest as I think this will be taken care of by LM soon. 

 

Kind regards, Michael

 

Of course you can leave any or all scenery areas active, but each one will affect the loading time and the blurries incrementally.  So, if you're planning a flight along the south coast go for the minimum, if you're flying north or into your UK2000 airports enable them.

 

I have my Scenery Config Editor icon just above my P3D, Plan G and Active Sky icons, it's part of my flight planning now, adds just a minute to the flight planning stage, similar to a real flight where there are many pre flight steps to take.

[pmb]

8 minutes ago, John Dow said:

 

Of course you can leave any or all scenery areas active, but each one will affect the loading time and the blurries incrementally.  So, if you're planning a flight along the south coast go for the minimum, if you're flying north or into your UK2000 airports enable them.

 

I have my Scenery Config Editor icon just above my P3D, Plan G and Active Sky icons, it's part of my flight planning now, adds just a minute to the flight planning stage, similar to a real flight where there are many pre flight steps to take.

John (and others following the thread), after some experimenting, I found I can get rid of the blurry ground. I just have to set Autogen and Scenery Distance back to High. This gives quite clear groud, at least on my system. Not as clear as unter XP, but I'd call it sufficient. (As a side note, still anything except TE GB deactivated using SImStarter.)

 

As a praise to the makers, autogen does not pop in in patches as in some LC-based sceneries like NCA. Instaed, it fades in (mostly) quite softly and at least that's not annoying. 

 

This works quite well with sufficient fps (~30) over rural areas / woodland etc. Unfortunately, this setting was at the outset of the thread, as it halves fps close to London. So, if we can find a way to make London usable as you're just trying this may be a way to go.

 

Kind regards, Michael

[Ace-9]

1 hour ago, John Dow said:

I just did an experiment to make London flyable for me as part of a tour of the ORBX airports, as one of the legs goes directly over London.

 

In the folder Program Files\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4\ORBX\FTX_EU\FTX_EU_!GBS_05_SCENERY\scenery there are a lot of POI and similar bgls.  I have no idea what each bgl has in it but I randomly selected every second POI and similar bgl file and cut them to a location outside the folder (not deleted just parked) and tested a flight over London.

 

Frame rates were up by about 8 fps which doesn't sound much but it means that instead of getting 7-15 I'm now getting 15-25 fps with the sliders hard over to the right (but no shadows) , so it's gone from a slideshow to just not smooth.  Quite a few of the landmarks had disappeared, such as the Millenium Dome, The Shard etc, but the overall impression of London was still there, and for an overfly it is quite satisfactory.

 

So if the fidelity of the London scenery doesn't matter too much and you just want London to be there when doing flights in the South, it might be an alternative while waiting for the new control panel to come out.  Note this is NOT an Orbx recommended alternative, so if you're not comfortable with file manipulation, 'don't try this at home'.

 

The attached screenshot shows the files I parked outside the Scenery folder.  I have no idea what they do, some might not even relate to London, but they were enough to make the area flyable.  If you have a Scenery Design program maybe it would be possible to assess which bgls cover London and which could be cut out without affecting the look of it too much.

 

 

 

Have a look at this post..... it will explain why..... Thank you to Nick from Orbx for pointing this out to me.....

 

 

 

[NineMile41]

Like I said wait for P3D 4.5 and lets see if the problems are gone.

[Benny]

Now I am wondering why my rig is running fairly normal????

 

I didn't un-click anything, I am using JV setting over London and normal setting anywhere else.

 

Load time to Southampton, computer just opened (not a reload of P3D V4.3?): 2:45 - 3:00

Memory use anywhere: Worse I have seen is 8 RAM, often at 6

GPU is not rushing EVER anywhere, 50-65% load in general

CPU: I sometime see 99% load but often 60-70%

FPS are very good outside London, lower I have seen in London was 9 but before I use JV setting

Around Southampton (that I love) I am in between 30 and 60 FPS

I can fly in any weather, I am using Active Sky cloud art.

I don't use limited FPS

 

Now, when I built My rig (the seller know is job) told me that my GPU and CPU would be a perfect match???? I just trusted him.

I started with 8 RAM but when I read all LM minimum requirement I added 8 more to 16.

 

I am using CAM to monitor all that.

 

I guess you have seen that little video I made DT London with JV setting but if not.

Ben

 

 

[GSalden]

Till the control panel is being released I am  using another brands London AG version on top of TE GB to have a framerate that is good enough for approaching EGLL coming from over London.

 

 

[GSalden]

And with the temporary combo for London my pc loads in 1:02:73 ...

 

With Orbx only for London but without the 3DM files it is 1:32 ...

 

The size of the 3DM is over 12 Gb so loading will take some time.

 

All with a triple view setup ..

[FireRx]

I just bought a 2tb SSD drive. I can see where this is going so I'm going to get ahead of it.

[stiletto2]

On 2/15/2019 at 9:55 AM, Benny said:

Now I am wondering why my rig is running fairly normal????

 

I didn't un-click anything, I am using JV setting over London and normal setting anywhere else.

 

Load time to Southampton, computer just opened (not a reload of P3D V4.3?): 2:45 - 3:00

Memory use anywhere: Worse I have seen is 8 RAM, often at 6

GPU is not rushing EVER anywhere, 50-65% load in general

CPU: I sometime see 99% load but often 60-70%

FPS are very good outside London, lower I have seen in London was 9 but before I use JV setting

Around Southampton (that I love) I am in between 30 and 60 FPS

I can fly in any weather, I am using Active Sky cloud art.

I don't use limited FPS

 

Now, when I built My rig (the seller know is job) told me that my GPU and CPU would be a perfect match???? I just trusted him.

I started with 8 RAM but when I read all LM minimum requirement I added 8 more to 16.

 

I am using CAM to monitor all that.

 

I guess you have seen that little video I made DT London with JV setting but if not.

Ben

 

 

Hi Ben,

 

My system also runs well because I am using the same key thing that you are.   I missed it in JV's P3Dv4 suggested set up the first time,  but then I went back and took another look.  The key is the Frame Rate Controls in the Display section.   The Frame Rate Controls need to have Vsynch On, Triple Buffering off and Target Frame Rate set to Unlimited.   Once the Frame Rate Controls are set to that combo then all the other things are just tweaks to make it a bit better depending on your equipment.   

 

So many of us have learned to use a locked FPS to smooth things out.   However, in London area, due to the overwhelming object rendering load, Locked FPS doesn't work becasue of the Low FPS spikes that occur.  I have read some really good postings from some pretty smart peope that say Locked FPS fails miserably if your system can't maintain a minimum of the locked frame rate or higher.  The correct setting in an object rendering overload environemnt is unlimited frame rate with Vsynch on to control the upper limit which should be 60HZ in a normal situations.  Triple Buffereing should be off since it will only hinder and not help in an object rendering overload environment.

 

Just flew from Lydd up the coast and then followed  the Thames all the way to landing at Heathrow.   Very flyable and no blurries that I noticed.  If I change the Frame  Rate Controls to anything other that the combo I mentioned  above, the stuttering becomes very bad to the point of being pretty much unflyable at times  

 

Rod  

 

   

   

[NineMile41]

I found my problem with TE England I was running my 2K monitor @144Hz when I turned it down to 60Hz I got a 50% increase in my frame rate now running at 36fps.

Watch out you 144hz owners it is nice to have your P3D smooth as silk but don't try it over London with TE.

[Benny]

23 minutes ago, NineMile41 said:

I found my problem with TE England I was running my 2K monitor @144Hz when I turned it down to 60Hz I got a 50% increase

 

Good for you Craig, with the rig you have something was really wrong

Ben