active CityScene Orlando.....Something's Not Right.....Or,

[FireRx]

21 minutes ago, lawrence aldrich said:

Probably a dumb question, but how come cityscape Portland (for example) is exempt from this type of problem?

+1

[FireRx]

30 minutes ago, carlosqr said:

Hi

I also confirm the stuck at 6% but at the end it does load

For me I suffer frame rates.

I have Gold Coast and Barcelona and work a lot better, but the explanation is above, though I think this should be told before as a warning so people decide to buy or not

 

I have a question

My ground textures fight to take place near the airport. I have P3D v4.4 fresh whole install and I have KMCO by Taxi2gate.

 

I have unticked the KMCO two options in the control panel but I still can see that when flying next to the airport the texture change to Orbx brownish and then change to T2G green ones and so on.

Should any bgl's in T2G be put to off? and then tick the airport terrain photo imagery the control panel?

 

Regards,

 

Carlos

Totally agree, Carlos

[ibelarry]

If you disable the ORBX libraries wouldn't you get scenery errors if you are using the NA landclass or at ORBX airports?  Or do you have to disable NA LC and other ORBX airports as well?  I have not purchased Orlando but plan on doing so.  Does this temporary fix work for Barcelona as well.  Barcelona usually gets stuck at 6% for me and takes 5 minutes to load from an SSD but that is with a lot of other European scenery.

[carlosqr]

2 minutes ago, ibelarry said:

If you disable the ORBX libraries wouldn't you get scenery errors if you are using the NA landclass or at ORBX airports?  Or do you have to disable NA LC and other ORBX airports?

They recommend to temporarly disable the the libraries when flying in ORLANDO as the cityscene doesn't need them ( to reduce the time loading)  but I won't do that, I rather wait the loading because I'm the type that might forget to tick again the libraries and then will have a mess

[Matt McGee]

4 hours ago, FireRx said:

Also , is the extended load time apply to just KORL & KMSO or will it affect globally from now on??

 

2 hours ago, akriesman said:

Because CityScene Orlando does not provide a large object library itself, Orlando scenery will not affect load times when starting a flight in say....Chicago.

 

Just as a data point in the effort to understand the load times, my load times at KNUW (north of Seattle) are affected by whether CityScene Orlando is enabled or disabled in the P3D scenery library.  I don't know why this would be, but it is what I've observed.

 

KNUW load times were up to 2 minutes & 28 seconds shorter when Orlando was disabled.  (3+07 vs. 5+35)

[FireRx]

wow,  

for regular GA Flying I'm just spawning in KDAB Daytona and flying to the Orlando area.  

[akriesman]

3 hours ago, downscc said:

My problem wasn't the load times but fractional frame rates and long frames during which aircraft (PMDG B747-8i) lost control.  Approaching the coast the terrain was blurry, so I pause and used terrain texture refresh.  This solved that problem but whenever the view was towards Orlando city proper, the frame rates would plummet and it reminded me of flying the Lear in MSFS circa 1989.

 

The plan is to start removing options, such as residential buildings, to see where I can find a happy place to use this pretty cool product. 

 

My system is 8700K 4.8GHz OC dual 1080Ti SLI so I should be able to handle anything within reason... this product for now is a little unreasonable.

 

Frame rate issues are generally not an issue with this product.   But, keep in mind that adding on advanced aircraft and detailed airports can slow things down.

 

There is something that I wanted to mention in the documentation and forgot.     The autogen trees for this project are extremely dense.    But, you really don't need that kind of density.

 

Starting at KORL with my mid range CPU, I get about 25 FPS with all the Scenery Object settings maxed out.   

 

• If I changes the "Autogen Vegetation Density" from extremely dense to normal,  the FPS jumps from 25 to about 28.
• Further changing the "Autogen and Scenery Draw Distance Slider" from Extremely High to just High,  further raises the FPS from 28 to 37.

If you want to increase your frame rates with the smallest visual impact, those are the suggestions I would make instead of removing features from the Orlando Scenery.

 

 

 

 

[akriesman]

3 hours ago, lawrence aldrich said:

Probably a dumb question, but how come cityscape Portland (for example) is exempt from this type of problem?

 

Because that product is  nearly all autogen based, not custom buildings.   There is a huge difference between the two.

 

Update:  I jumped to conclusion on the Portland scenery.   It does in fact have mostly custom objects.   The reason it does not have the load time issue is because the scenery area is much smaller.    My apologies to Tim Harris who is a fantastic scenery developer.

[akriesman]

1 hour ago, ibelarry said:

If you disable the ORBX libraries wouldn't you get scenery errors if you are using the NA landclass or at ORBX airports?  Or do you have to disable NA LC and other ORBX airports as well?  I have not purchased Orlando but plan on doing so.  Does this temporary fix work for Barcelona as well.  Barcelona usually gets stuck at 6% for me and takes 5 minutes to load from an SSD but that is with a lot of other European scenery.

Yes.  From what we found in Orlando, same for Barcelona.

 

[akriesman]

1 hour ago, Matt McGee said:

 

 

Just as a data point in the effort to understand the load times, my load times at KNUW (north of Seattle) are affected by whether CityScene Orlando is enabled or disabled in the P3D scenery library.  I don't know why this would be, but it is what I've observed.

 

KNUW load times were up to 2 minutes & 28 seconds shorter when Orlando was disabled.  (3+07 vs. 5+35)

 

Matt.   I think there is something else going on unique to your system.   Orlando should have very little if any impact on KNUW load times.   

 

I have been struggling with find a way to explain all of this.  So, I am going to try and do this visually as much as possible.   This is what we have seen happening using ProcMon when a scenery is loaded in P3D V4.  There is no reason to believe it is any different in P3D V3 or even FSX.  I think the logic is the same.

 

Lets say you have this mythical scenery area below.   Each one of these squares in the grid contains lots of custom scenery objects (not autogen).   To compare with Orlando, lets say that the simulator makes 100 passes for each cell show below.  Since there are 165 cells, the simulator makes 100 passes.   The total number of passes to load the scenery is 16,500.

 

During the 6% load phase, for each of the 16,500 passes, the simulator checks the objects against every scenery object library located in the system.   It does not check other custom scenery BGL files or anything autogen related, only scenery defined object libraries.   It does not matter where those libraries are located, they can be anywhere in any scenery layer.

 

Lets start with a clean system, which only has CityScene Orlando loaded.   Using ProcMon, the sim makes 16,500 passes through all of the grids shown above.   Because only the core FSX/P3D libraries are present, each of these 16,500 passes are sub-millisecond.  As a result, the 6% load time is very fast (probably 5 to 20 seconds depending on the system).

 

Now, lets say that you add Barcelona on your system.   Barcelona has only 1 small object library.   So now, for each of the 16,500 passes the simulator seems to check against the default libraries and the Barcelona library.   But, the Barcelona library is very small and on my system the load times are increase by maybe 1 or 2 seconds most.

 

Now lets add in the Orbx Libraries.  The Orbx Libraries have 178 BGL's and over 2,000 textures.    So, even though CityScene does not use the Orbx LIbraries, these 178 files seem to be scanned for every one of the 16,500 passes.

 

You can now see what is causing long load times.  As you add more object libraries to the system, the load times start to increase exponentially.     However, most scenery and airport products have object libraries that are very small.  So, the impact overall is minimal.

 

This is why the Orbx libraries have such a big impact right now.

 

So, why is only CityScene Orlando affected and not other products ?

 

This logic affects Orlando, Barcelona and the Gold Coast because these products have tens of thousands of custom objects.   Other cityscape type of products have a handful of detailed POI's and then they fill in the rest of the area with generic autogen buildings.   There is a big difference in accuracy and visual impact.  I would also mention that some products are very detailed, but only cover a smaller area (i.e. CityScape Portland).  So, area size is also important.

 

However, the future is that people want more accuracy.  You can only have more accuracy with custom objects (1 of a kind).  That is the only way to obtain accuracy as new scenery products come out.    

 

As I mentioned elsewhere, I think this is a problem that can be solved.   I will be talking with LM about that possibility.    As somebody else on the team mentioned, there could also be a glitch in one of the Orbx Library BGL's.  This is is something that will be researched also.

 

Also, some users may have older systems cluttered with lots of scenery addons.   If those addons contain object libraries, they could also impact load times for other products.

 

My advice here is start with disabling only the Orbx Libraries when flying in Orlando.   That alone should have a huge impact if load times are a problem.

 

Matt, if you follow the logic that I outlined above, maybe you can understand why Orlando should have little to no impact on KNUW.   Orlando has only 1 small object library.   I am not familar with KNUW, but I would assume that it is a pretty small area.   I am sure if we loaded KNUW into ProcMon, you would only see 1 small object library accessed from CityScene Orlando.

 

I hope this helps everyone.    I am trying my best to explain this complex situation

 

 

 

 

 

[FireRx]

54 minutes ago, akriesman said:

 

Frame rate issues are generally not an issue with this product.   But, keep in mind that adding on advanced aircraft and detailed airports can slow things down.

 

There is something that I wanted to mention in the documentation and forgot.     The autogen trees for this project are extremely dense.    But, you really don't need that kind of density.

 

Starting at KORL with my mid range CPU, I get about 25 FPS with all the Scenery Object settings maxed out.   

 

• If I changes the "Autogen Vegetation Density" from extremely dense to normal,  the FPS jumps from 25 to about 28.
• Further changing the "Autogen and Scenery Draw Distance Slider" from Extremely High to just High,  further raises the FPS from 28 to 37.

If you want to increase your frame rates with the smallest visual impact, those are the suggestions I would make instead of removing features from the Orlando Scenery.

 

thanks, I'll try that on next flight

 

 

 

[W2DR]

6 minutes ago, akriesman said:

I hope this helps everyone.    I am trying my best to explain this complex situation

 

 You're doing a great job Allen. The whole issue has now become clear to me. Thanks again for the support.........Doug

[carlosqr]

8 minutes ago, FireRx said:

 

Hi thanks

My sliders are not to max

But I did remove untick the roof checkbox and the sim loaded faster at least

I'm going to do a flight and see if something has improved

 

Cheers

[carlosqr]

18 minutes ago, akriesman said:

I hope this helps everyone.    I am trying my best to explain this complex situation

Very interesting to know

Thanks

[Matt McGee]

50 minutes ago, akriesman said:

I am trying my best to explain this complex situation

I think you are doing a great job Allen.

 

I don't know what the deal is with KNUW (I do have freeware scenery for it), but as you said, the load times other places seem to be almost identical.

 

I timed the load times at KLWS (Orbx Central Rockies updated airport) and KSFF (Orbx payware airport).  All times were for a new scenario load.

 

KLWS                                                                                             KSFF

0+56   CityScene Orlando enabled                                           2+29   CityScene Orlando enabled

1+00   CityScene Orlando enabled                                           2+20   CityScene Orlando enabled

 

1+00   CityScene Orlando disabled                                          2+21   CityScene Orlando disabled

1+01   CityScene Orlando disabled                                          2+15   CityScene Orlando disabled

 

When you are talking to LM, perhaps ask them if they could give us the ability to enable and disable scenery library entries BEFORE loading a flight?

[JohnnyJohnJohn]

Can I offer a suggestion? I tried this - and it cut my loading time back to normal! If you have Orbx Trees, use them instead of the dynamic vegetation.    It cuts it down incredibly.  I think using the Default Trees in Prepar3d is what is slowing down the loading time, because there are many, many trees in that scenery, and that's the only thing I can think it would have to compare to the scenery library.   I was frozen on the 6% for almost a half an hour tonight, not going anywhere, until I tried that step. After that, went back to normal. 

[akriesman]

8 minutes ago, Matt McGee said:

I think you are doing a great job Allen.

 

I don't know what the deal is with KNUW (I do have freeware scenery for it), but as you said, the load times other places seem to be almost identical.

 

I timed the load times at KLWS (Orbx Central Rockies updated airport) and KSFF (Orbx payware airport).  All times were for a new scenario load.

 

KLWS                                                                                             KSFF

0+56   CityScene Orlando enabled                                           2+29   CityScene Orlando enabled

1+00   CityScene Orlando enabled                                           2+20   CityScene Orlando enabled

 

1+00   CityScene Orlando disabled                                          2+21   CityScene Orlando disabled

1+01   CityScene Orlando disabled                                          2+15   CityScene Orlando disabled

 

When you are talking to LM, perhaps ask them if they could give us the ability to enable and disable scenery library entries BEFORE loading a flight?

 

Thanks Matt,

 

I thought the same thing as you regarding the Scenery Library and P3D V4.   But, I just had it pointed out to me today by Holger that you actually can edit the Scenery Library before loading a flight in V4.

 

From the "Prepar3D Scenario" Screen, just press the "Scenery" button to get to the scenery library.   

 

[akriesman]

23 minutes ago, JohnnyJohnJohn said:

Can I offer a suggestion? I tried this - and it cut my loading time back to normal! If you have Orbx Trees, use them instead of the dynamic vegetation.    It cuts it down incredibly.  I think using the Default Trees in Prepar3d is what is slowing down the loading time, because there are many, many trees in that scenery, and that's the only thing I can think it would have to compare to the scenery library.   I was frozen on the 6% for almost a half an hour tonight, not going anywhere, until I tried that step. After that, went back to normal. 

 

Hmmm   The 6% mark is usually only reserved for only loading custom objects.   Autogen trees are loaded much later (when the sim says "Loading Autogen Scenery" or something like that).

 

I tried this with and without the Orbx Speed Trees installed and there is no load time difference that I can see on my system.    However, even with the Orbx Libraries my Orlando load times are about 3 minutes.    But, when you are a simmer that has general load time issues, everything is amplified.

 

The only proven thing that I have ever seen really cut down the load times so far is by is disabling the Orbx Libraries because of their size.    That is the only proven thing at this point.

 

I would be interested if anyone else sees the same thing regarding the trees.    In theory, the Speed Trees selection should not affect load times.  But, you never know.

 

BTW, you are correct about the many, many trees in the scenery.   In fact, you can improve frame rates by reducing the Autogen tree density.  And, you can improve frames rates even more by reducing the autogen draw distance.

 

Also, thank you for taking the time to mention this.    What works for 1 simmer will probably work for another.

 

 

 

 

 

[medx421]

I'm reluctantly holding back on this one which is a first for me and ORBX products.  As a low and slow US flyer, I have a real interest in this product and other upcoming offerings.  I'm confident you and the team will work through these issues.  Out of curiosity, would it be considered inappropriate or unrealistic to collaborate with other commercial developers who have and are currently developing large cityscapes with numerous custom buildings to see how and if they have overcome this issue with their offerings?

[John Dow]

As mentioned by akriesman I was working on a guide to easily configuring your scenery library for each flight, especially flights in Cityscapes like Orlando.  I have reduced loading from 6 mins 50 secs to 2 mins 30 secs by unticking all unnecessary scenery layers.

 

Attached is the first draft of the document in which I suggest that with a bit of planning and a change of behaviour when you start your sim session, you can reduce loading times for any flight you undertake.  Have a read and see what you think, and comments and suggestions are welcome as this is only a draft document Version 1.

Using Scenery Config Editor.docx

 

Also a plain .doc version:

Using Scenery Config Editor.doc

 

If you can't download directly, go to www.mycanberra.com.au/Flightsim and download form there.

[gregmorin]

6 hours ago, Matt McGee said:

I think you are doing a great job Allen.

 

I don't know what the deal is with KNUW (I do have freeware scenery for it), but as you said, the load times other places seem to be almost identical.

 

I timed the load times at KLWS (Orbx Central Rockies updated airport) and KSFF (Orbx payware airport).  All times were for a new scenario load.

 

KLWS                                                                                             KSFF

0+56   CityScene Orlando enabled                                           2+29   CityScene Orlando enabled

1+00   CityScene Orlando enabled                                           2+20   CityScene Orlando enabled

 

1+00   CityScene Orlando disabled                                          2+21   CityScene Orlando disabled

1+01   CityScene Orlando disabled                                          2+15   CityScene Orlando disabled

 

When you are talking to LM, perhaps ask them if they could give us the ability to enable and disable scenery library entries BEFORE loading a flight?

Matt

 

We have the ability to disable scenery before loading a flight now. When you are on the start up screen click on scenery on the bottom. Then you can select the scenery add delete page. Disable what you want and the sim will rebuild the cfg before you set up the flight.

 

Greg

[FireRx]

7 hours ago, akriesman said:

 

Frame rate issues are generally not an issue with this product.   But, keep in mind that adding on advanced aircraft and detailed airports can slow things down.

 

There is something that I wanted to mention in the documentation and forgot.     The autogen trees for this project are extremely dense.    But, you really don't need that kind of density.

 

Starting at KORL with my mid range CPU, I get about 25 FPS with all the Scenery Object settings maxed out.   

 

• If I changes the "Autogen Vegetation Density" from extremely dense to normal,  the FPS jumps from 25 to about 28.
• Further changing the "Autogen and Scenery Draw Distance Slider" from Extremely High to just High,  further raises the FPS from 28 to 37.

If you want to increase your frame rates with the smallest visual impact, those are the suggestions I would make instead of removing features from the Orlando Scenery.

 

thanks, I'll try that on next flight

 

 

 I just flew this today and noticed something.  even with Dynamic 3D  trees autogen is active in the scenery even with it turned off in the World Menu in P3D.  I think this is the FPS hitter in the area.  average FPS is 8 while in flight to 28 FPS while orbiting over and POI.  I just noticed this during this morning's flight.  Possibly another direction to look.

[BAW9DV]

Hmm,

 

Interesting topic ....

 

I use FSX-SE and was about to purchase both this Cityscene product and T2G KMCO to go with it, as I understand that the two CAN be used together.   Whilst I would love to explore this area in a local flight type of aircraft, for me it would be wonderful to fly, say, the 737NGX out of the MidWest on a scheduled flight to KMCO - or even long haul across the Atlantic - and arrive into this amazing area to view on the way into a KMCO landing.....

 

But it is disappointing that you say that this scenery is not really designed for this type of flight.   A real pity ....

 

I will hold off for the moment and see what others say - and whether there is any update that affects this issue.

 

Cheers,

 

Lee

[John Dow]

20 minutes ago, BAW9DV said:

Hmm,

 

Interesting topic ....

 

I use FSX-SE and was about to purchase both this Cityscene product and T2G KMCO to go with it, as I understand that the two CAN be used together.   Whilst I would love to explore this area in a local flight type of aircraft, for me it would be wonderful to fly, say, the 737NGX out of the MidWest on a scheduled flight to KMCO - or even long haul across the Atlantic - and arrive into this amazing area to view on the way into a KMCO landing.....

 

But it is disappointing that you say that this scenery is not really designed for this type of flight.   A real pity ....

 

I will hold off for the moment and see what others say - and whether there is any update that affects this issue.

 

Cheers,

 

Lee

 

No reason why you can't.  But for the best experience flying into the CityScene area, untick all scenery entries except what is required for your flight, including the Orbx LIBS which in an airliner shouldn't make much difference at your departure airport.

[BAW9DV]

37 minutes ago, John Dow said:

 

No reason why you can't.  But for the best experience flying into the CityScene area, untick all scenery entries except what is required for your flight, including the Orbx LIBS which in an airliner shouldn't make much difference at your departure airport.

 

Hello John,

 

Thanks for that - I was kind of thinking along the same lines .....

I *WILL* buy this, but I'll just wait a little for any further developments. 

 

Thanks for your kind comments,

 

Regards,

 

Lee

[W2DR]

4 hours ago, John Dow said:

As mentioned by akriesman I was working on a guide to easily configuring your scenery library for each flight, especially flights in Cityscapes like Orlando.  I have reduced loading from 6 mins 50 secs to 2 mins 30 secs by unticking all unnecessary scenery layers.

 

Attached is the first draft of the document in which I suggest that with a bit of planning and a change of behaviour when you start your sim session, you can reduce loading times for any flight you undertake.  Have a read and see what you think, and comments and suggestions are welcome as this is only a draft document Version 1.

Using Scenery Config Editor.docx

 

Nice job John. Thanks. For those of us, like me, who find they don't have a way to read a .docx file this may help: https://gallery.technet.microsoft.com/office/docx-viewer-free-reader-07e836dd .

[akriesman]

8 hours ago, medx421 said:

I'm reluctantly holding back on this one which is a first for me and ORBX products.  As a low and slow US flyer, I have a real interest in this product and other upcoming offerings.  I'm confident you and the team will work through these issues.  Out of curiosity, would it be considered inappropriate or unrealistic to collaborate with other commercial developers who have and are currently developing large cityscapes with numerous custom buildings to see how and if they have overcome this issue with their offerings?

 

To be honest, nobody is doing what we are doing in the FSX/P3D world.    I don't mean for this to sound egotistical.    But, we developed a very unique system that took over 4 years to develop.   This system creates the CityScapes from extruded building data.   But what makes it efficient is that it groups objects uniquely which massively reduced the number of draw calls in the scenery.        Without this technology, poor frame rates would make a scenery unflyable with 200,000 custom objects.    The important thing here is to know the difference between custom objects and autogen buildings.

 

CityScene Orlando has over 200k custom objects and uses no autogen buildings.     Detailed airports and smaller detailed Cityscape products most likely will have a 100 or so custom objects at most, not 200k.     When I say custom objects, I am not saying that each building is hand-crafted and there are different levels of detail.   But, our system takes building footprint data and extrudes them into custom models so that they have a much more accurate size and shape.    You can't do that with autogen.   And, custom models have a much further draw distance.

 

I am not criticizing other City products.  But, it is comparing apples-to-oranges.    I have even demonstrated our technology to some of these other developers at trade shows.  So, they are aware that what we are doing is much different.

 

If you are a low and slow flyer, I would not be afraid.    As you can see from the posts here,  just disabling the Orbx libraries greatly reduces load times.   I have 3 different system configurations and my load times have never exceeded 5 minutes with the Orbx Libraries active and are 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 minutes total with the Orbx Libraries disabled.   Disabling the Orbx Libraries is very simple and can be done preflight with 1-click.   

 

If you fly the heavies or other high speed aircraft long distance, then this scenery is probably not for you.   But, the same is true for any detailed terrain scenery.    JMHO.

 

 

[Tamba765]

     I'm sure designing scenery packages is very labor intensive. We as end users, however, should not be expected to jump through a bunch of hoops to get these packages to work properly. You guys must realize that most of us have other 3rd party scenery besides Orbx products. We shouldn't be expected to have to disable other scenery every time we want to use this product. I disabled the FTXAA ORBXLIBS and the 2 items relating to Orlando,  and the sim finally loaded after about 4 minutes.

     That being said, I think I'm just going to uninstall this product, and wait for a more reasonable solution. Thanks.

Pete Locascio

[FreeBird]

I really think were at a stage in flightsim development that we really need to manage our sceneries as our scenery libraries are all getting quite large. There are many great scenery and sim managers out there and I highly recommend them and are very simple to use. You will find your simulator working much better and faster without loading it down with what you don't need. I like the product and like where things are going we just need to adapt and be patient till LM and scenery developers figure it out.  Josh

[W2DR]

 

Start of rant. I give up. After installing in both P3D and FSX I just can't do this anymore. I've uninstalled them both. I'll never be an early adopter again. There is no way I'm going to do all this enable-disable stuff. As my Daddy told me when I was a little guy.....life is too short to dance with ugly women. End of rant................Doug

[Paul Golding]

14 minutes ago, W2DR said:

 

.....life is too short to dance with ugly women. End of rant................Doug

Now that's the truth!

 

As for the Orlando "issue", frustrating (for now) it may be for some, including you Doug, surely the need to fly around Orlando isn't that great?

[downscc]

14 hours ago, akriesman said:

 

Frame rate issues are generally not an issue with this product.   But, keep in mind that adding on advanced aircraft and detailed airports can slow things down.

 

There is something that I wanted to mention in the documentation and forgot.     The autogen trees for this project are extremely dense.    But, you really don't need that kind of density.

 

Starting at KORL with my mid range CPU, I get about 25 FPS with all the Scenery Object settings maxed out.   

 

• If I changes the "Autogen Vegetation Density" from extremely dense to normal,  the FPS jumps from 25 to about 28.
• Further changing the "Autogen and Scenery Draw Distance Slider" from Extremely High to just High,  further raises the FPS from 28 to 37.

If you want to increase your frame rates with the smallest visual impact, those are the suggestions I would make instead of removing features from the Orlando Scenery.

 

 

 

 

 

Okay.. I should have known better.... this product installation instructions needs a large bold font: RTFM

 

I disabled Orlando and KMCO in scenery.cfg and turned off residential buildings and all returned to normal from the VC Cockpit of the PMDG QOTSII.  Thank you.  I will certainly play with the vegetation autogen setting but on the other hand I like the autogen trees as I'm flying IMC so I'll find a balance that works.  As a PMDG beta tester I'd like to ask you to hang in there and don't let the frustrated users get under your skin.  Do what I like to do, provide the page number in the introduction that solves their problem.  Thanks!

[FireRx]

1 hour ago, akriesman said:

 

To be honest, nobody is doing what we are doing in the FSX/P3D world.    I don't mean for this to sound egotistical.    But, we developed a very unique system that took over 4 years to develop.   This system creates the CityScapes from extruded building data.   But what makes it efficient is that it groups objects uniquely which massively reduced the number of draw calls in the scenery.        Without this technology, poor frame rates would make a scenery unflyable with 200,000 custom objects.    The important thing here is to know the difference between custom objects and autogen buildings.

 

CityScene Orlando has over 200k custom objects and uses no autogen buildings.     Detailed airports and smaller detailed Cityscape products most likely will have a 100 or so custom objects at most, not 200k.     When I say custom objects, I am not saying that each building is hand-crafted and there are different levels of detail.   But, our system takes building footprint data and extrudes them into custom models so that they have a much more accurate size and shape.    You can't do that with autogen.   And, custom models have a much further draw distance.

 

I am not criticizing other City products.  But, it is comparing apples-to-oranges.    I have even demonstrated our technology to some of these other developers at trade shows.  So, they are aware that what we are doing is much different.

 

If you are a low and slow flyer, I would not be afraid.    As you can see from the posts here,  just disabling the Orbx libraries greatly reduces load times.   I have 3 different system configurations and my load times have never exceeded 5 minutes with the Orbx Libraries active and are 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 minutes total with the Orbx Libraries disabled.   Disabling the Orbx Libraries is very simple and can be done preflight with 1-click.   

 

If you fly the heavies or other high speed aircraft long distance, then this scenery is probably not for you.   But, the same is true for any detailed terrain scenery.    JMHO.

 

 

 

 

Akiesman,

It might be better to post page 8 of the installation instructions in here for folks to see those items they need to take the check mark out of in P3D. it make a HUGE difference in the end for them.  I have a feeling most are not following that procedure and having "Stacked Sceneries" loading up.  This alone, reduced my load times .  Also Might add to re migrate and run Vector AEC configurator if they have Vectors installed too.

[W2DR]

1 hour ago, Paul Golding said:

Now that's the truth!

 

As for the Orlando "issue", frustrating (for now) it may be for some, including you Doug, surely the need to fly around Orlando isn't that great?

 

Not that great for me Paul. I fly it in RL several times a year. My frustration level with this scenery, though, has been exceeded..........Doug

[akriesman]

2 hours ago, FireRx said:

 

 

Akiesman,

It might be better to post page 8 of the installation instructions in here for folks to see those items they need to take the check mark out of in P3D. it make a HUGE difference in the end for them.  I have a feeling most are not following that procedure and having "Stacked Sceneries" loading up.  This alone, reduced my load times .  Also Might add to re migrate and run Vector AEC configurator if they have Vectors installed too.

 

Yes.   I think we need a locked post at the top of the forum that can easily be seen.   There has been a lot of good info passed back and forth here.

[N8TheGr8]

I see that everyone is having the terrible load times as me but my scenery even takes forever to load flying in. I did a test flight from mdw-mco and I had to pause my sim for a while to let everything load. I had blurry textures and that was it, no building or airport (this was for the Orlando area only) it wasn't until I paused the sim that it all loaded. Is there a fix for this or is anyone having this problem?

 

Thanks, 

Nate

[medx421]

I appreciate your response.  I don't think of it as egotistical of ORBX to have a forward vision and a desire to be cutting edge.  I certainly didn't mean any insult when I suggested other commercial developers.  I, as you, and the community knows, there have been some cityscapes done by one particular developer, and another one coming in the near future by another developer that stands to possess significant detail over a large urban area with numerous custom buildings.  If they are doing it to a lesser quality, lesser volume, or different method, then understood.  All said, I must echo others when I have concern for this new direction.  Before this product, removing scenery library entries was a rather cursory personal decision for minute performance gains.  If we are now reaching a point where we have exceeded the normal simulator environment and the removal of library entries becomes less of a personal choice and more of a requirement, then I believe we have gone too far.  With a decent system and a 64 bit sim, we can do an awful lot.  If we have already reached the point where we are taxing this relatively new market, then where are we to grow?  Honestly, while being a personal choice, do not want to have to deactivate items from a scenery library just to fly in one area.  Now is this just a temporary solution?  It is to be seen.  Again, I have high hopes for some of the items in the 2019 road map, and how this new status going to affect those.  I would just say for the sake of discussion, that it is a marketplace concern. 

[W2DR]

 

+ 1

[carlosqr]

@akriesman

Greeting, I hope/wish you would reply to my question

 

I really don't mind much about the load time, I'm kind of used to it as before the reinstall I had about 600 entries in the scenery library. I'm considering to reintall but for now I'm really enjoying only Orbx.

Installed KMCO as I knew Orlando was comming.

 

My concern is that when taxing the plane struggles to move to the point it freezes for some seconds and very often, some areas are seen like in slow camera motion. When flying it also struggles a bit with some freezings too. I do LOVE the scenery I've been flying high and low these past two days.I unticked the roof checkbox and performance imprroved a bit but not as in other Orbx sceneries

 

Is there a way to make the sim runs smoother when flying Orlando? That's all I wish until the fix/update comes.

 

I noticed something that might not be related but I wonder. I pause the game and came to the forum and my computer was slow as a snail, hardly responding. which made me think the sim was swallowing all its resourses (due to the level of the scenery? so demaning it is?) or is it just that my system is too poor? I have 8 GB ram, would it make it better if buying and adding more?

 

Thank you in advance

 

Carlos

[Matt McGee]

16 hours ago, gregmorin said:

Matt

 

We have the ability to disable scenery before loading a flight now. When you are on the start up screen click on scenery on the bottom. Then you can select the scenery add delete page. Disable what you want and the sim will rebuild the cfg before you set up the flight.

 

Greg

Thanks for the tip Greg. 

Perhaps I need to update from my current P3Dv4.2, because I don't have a "scenery" option.

 

Don't want to hijack this thread, if I can't get it sorted, I'll start a thread.

Thanks for the advice!