uksfpred Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Hi guys was on a flight last night mostly across water, when i suddenly realised that at the rate i was burning fuel i wouldn't make my destination and in fact would be lucky to make any land at all - I'm running with FSPassengers 2016 with instant save on, so actually really cared about saving my pilot and aircraft, so panic began. so i proceeded to cancel my IFR with ATC, and gain as much altitude as i could getting up to 35,000ft to give me as high glide slope as i could once power went. looked at my GPS and changed course for the nearest land while trying to find my nearest airport, sure enough there was one at the island i was headed for. anyway pretty soon all engines stopped and in order to keep up air speed i started my decent, in actual fact as it happened i had to circle three times in effort to lose altitude and speed to be able to land safely come the end!. However my biggest challenge actually came when all the power went off, literally everything. switched off about 5 mins before i needed it all to land. i clicked for the APU to come on but nothing happened i thought this would buy me a little time with electrics, but it didn't. so my question, could I of done anything better in this situation? I considered shutting one engine down when i realised i was low to safe fuel but then with the drop in speed would i have gained anything ? i was cruising at mach .78 at 31,000 feet when I knew i wasn't going to make it. i went for keeping the speed up and gain altitude. also when the power went could I of done anything to get power / or save power ? I was in default 737-800, but with Advanced VC cockpit from rikoooo and I'm using P3D for what it matters. I have googled this, but find most people are questing the range of the 737 on FSX / P3D where as i want a procedure once you run out. . anyway thought this would be a fun topic of conversation .. oh yes saved the plane, pilot and all passengers after a lovely smooth but slightly fast landing after pumping Ctrl G to get the gear to come down lol . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jethro VH-JET Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Hi uksfpred, I have no real or virtual experience managing a 737 that has run out of fuel, I suspect that the flight was mismanaged by your co-pilot (a strong reprimand is in order). You should have enough fuel onboard for an alternate field and 30-40min of fuel for weather & holding pattern approach. You could just open the back door and remove some of the cattle class passengers, or open the realism settings to check unlimited fuel or adjust the fuel and payload on the fly, so to speak. I saw a movie once where the plane was running low on fuel over water at night, they weren't going to make land, they were over weight and under fuelled. I Cant remember the name of the movie but it had all the usual drama of a 1930's classic (killer with a gun, an alcoholic that couldn't wait to end it all, a pretty curvaceous blond, a sick child, a war hero, a pilot with a faultless record, and a cop), it was an old 2 engine Viscount or something like that. If I remember the plot, they threw out all the luggage, then the old and infirmed, then the seats that the remaining passengers did not need, then the co-pilot, they made it to the threshold with some losses..... (Well wadyyaknow) the pilot saved the plane and the pretty blond, a heroes welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alehead Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 How you could have improved it? Before the flight ever left the ground, by assuring you had enough fuel for the route, alternative, and reserve. You need to take en route weather, headwind component and so on into account when loading fuel. You should plan your fuel load to land with at least your final reserve on board. I do not know of any specific procedure: "What to do if you do not plan enough fuel for your journey". Read up on the Gimli Glider story... A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uksfpred Posted December 21, 2016 Author Share Posted December 21, 2016 but shouldn't I of been able to turn the APU on to give me power again ? even if for a limited time ? and yes I will plan better next time! . . . i couldnt make any changes to the fuel mid flight because I didn't think FSpassengers would allow it due to the reaslism settings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olderndirt Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Feather both and set up a glide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregmorin Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Some aircraft used to have an wind blow generator that you could extend into the slip stream in the case of generator failure. The 737 is not so equipped. You could have gotten some juice from the batteries through the standby power but I do not think the default 737 would model that. I wonder if you used more fuel in the climb that you would have used holding altitude until the you lost power and gotten closer to land. However you landed so you were correct. I think you check list should have been: 1. Pray 2. Bend over grab your ankles and kiss you A-- goodbye. 3. If you survive kiss your airman's certificate goodbye. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Kane Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 APU won't work without fuel so you would have deployed the Ram Air Turbine (RAT) to get hydraulics and on some systems power, as you are using the NGX it doesn't use a RAT so this system is missing. Reason for this is the 737 is smaller so the pilot will muscle the controls and battery will provide some basic power, this will make for an extreme white knuckle landing with heavy controls and limited systems (It is kind of like your steering wheel on your car with no power steering when the car is off, the steering becomes heavy). On other aircraft this is a description of the RAT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_air_turbine Edit: When deployed the RAT makes a very loud humming noise and adds to the fear factor for the passengers who would know very little of what is happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper31 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Interesting scenario. I am not a tube liner pilot, so I do not have much to offer other than a pat on the back for getting your aircraft and simulated passengers down safely. I am a GA flyer, and only a simulated one at that. I do on occasion fly the venerable A2A B-17 G Flying Fortress, but that is as large as I will go, and the systems in that fine plane are nothing at all like what you are dealing with in a modern 737. My ONLY question is similar to what Greg said above. That is I wonder how much fuel you used gaining more altitude vs. staying at your current cruise altitude. But, all in all, you made it, so a big thumbs up! Oh, and I agree with several of the others on the better planning comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uksfpred Posted December 22, 2016 Author Share Posted December 22, 2016 Thanks guys some interesting feedback. . and yes better planning indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobnobs Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 My instructor, being the very direct sort of person that he was once said to me; "Never run out of fuel, it is literally the most stupid way to die in an aeroplane." I'd blame it on the co-pilot if I were you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Ask him, ha ha hahttp://www.robertpiche.com/en-ca/index.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236 Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uksfpred Posted December 22, 2016 Author Share Posted December 22, 2016 Brilliant I just read both those links. I interesting how an experienced crew didn't check that the fuel imbalance was not caused by a fuel leak before opening the cross-feed valve Would you not get a little suspicious when Engine one has X hundred's of gallons left and engine 2 has none ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnE77 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 You shouldn't have climbed once you realized you were facing a fuel starvation issue. That just 1) Burned more fuel and 2) Made your powerless descent more challenging. Didn't your FMC show well ahead of time that you weren't going to make your destination? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingleaf Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I am pretty sure just 15 miles more and a left turn there is a Shell gas station around 34.000'. Mebby it was 21 miles and it should still be there. At least it was the last time when I ran outta gas in that area. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Kane Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 True story... A friend of mine in Northern Australia has a Cessna and when he does cross country he lands it on the road and pulls into a gas station to refuel. On this one occasion he landed and pulled into the gas station to find a police cruiser at the gas station. Officer didn't like what he did so he wrote him a ticket for driving an unregistered vehicle on an Australian Highway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Harmes Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 There is an FSX mission with this scenario, but I believe it's in the Airbus A321. Good job landing anyway. Im glad you didn't do what was mentioned above and "relieve" the plane of the old and infirmed. Geez, don't go saying that on these forums. :D Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimNZ Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Got to go and read up on how to look young again, I mean it must be easy enough, look at the adverts on TV, and they tell the truth you know, JimNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VH-KDK Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I have run the default 738 and 744s out of fuel several times, but I cheat! I have never realised just how many extras they have to allow for as this interesting clip explains. 5 hours ago, Matthew Kane said: True story... A friend of mine in Northern Australia has a Cessna and when he does cross country he lands it on the road and pulls into a gas station to refuel. On this one occasion he landed and pulled into the gas station to find a police cruiser at the gas station. Officer didn't like what he did so he wrote him a ticket for driving an unregistered vehicle on an Australian Highway. Lucky he did not land in Victoria or they would have booked him for speeding too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Kane Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 9 hours ago, VH-KDK said: Lucky he did not land in Victoria or they would have booked him for speeding too! In Victoria they use those Speed Camera's so the person processing the photo's would have had a bit of a shock seeing a Cessna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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