Making the Decision is No Yoke!

[Uberscrew]

Having firmly reignited my love for this incredible hobby of ours I am now looking to ramp up the immersion factor through the purchase of a yoke and pedals combo. I have made do with a budget joystick with twist grip rudder control which has proved a worthy starting point but I must admit that maintaining coordinated flight during higher G manoeuvres proves very tricky and sore on the wrists!

I have tried some research on a number of venerable forums linked to our hobby and can find only limited discussion on the subject of yokes. I am leaning toward the Saitek Cessna Proflight Yoke and associated add-ons but I am aware of some alternatives at a similar price point. My loving head of finance will not entertain the world of high end yokes starting in the region of £600 pounds plus and nor I have I found evidence to suggest you derive any real benefit.

I appreciate this is possibly a topic that has been well exhausted in the past but I really respect the balanced and knowledgable opinion of this particular community...so if any current users of this type of control system has the time spare to pass comment or offer recommendation, feedback or simple fan service to their particular favourite it may just help this relative newb avoid making any big mistakes.

Your input and advice is greatly appreciated.

[Vonduck]

Hi Uber,

I fly Airbus 99% of the time so have set my system up specifically for that... the sidestick is Logitech 3D Pro as has the most natural grip (as opposed to my CH Flight Stick)

Peddles I use are Saitek combat pedals.... absolutely fabulous... sturdy and robust.. great toe breaking and adjustable tension.... i would recommend them to anyone..

I had a CH yoke once and that was good... not sure about todays market on the yoke front though

All the best in the next level!

[Cal]

Hi Uber,

I've used the Saitek Pro Yoke and Pedals almost daily since I bought them lightly used 2 years ago. No problems to report other than a pulsing information panel in the yoke's center, a minor annoyance to my thinking. I'm happy and will consider buying a new one when the old one becomes unreliable.

good flights, Cal

[Neil Hill]

Hi Uber,

I use a "CH Flight Sim yoke" (not the fancy new one) which has served me daily for doing airports for ORBX for many years. Any yoke that can place 100% of the objects for PNW, PFJ, NRM, CRM, plus several others I'm working on, must have the right stuff. I recommend it. As far as the pedals I can't say, hardly ever have time to use them!!

Cheers, Neil

[Matthew Kane]

Doug pretty much says it.....Depends on what you fly most.

For me I fly the PMDG NGX, Carenado Skymaster, Carenado Baron 90% of the time, therefore a sidestick is no good for me. I am happy with my Saitek Yoke and Rudder Pedals.

If you are looking at the Saitek Cessna Line then that is great as well, however I find the regular Saitek yoke to be more universal if you are switching around to other aircraft like 737's or Beech Barons for example.

If you fly Cessna a lot then that Saitek Cessna gear is the best choice.

Cheers

[bill ho]

hi Uberscrew.i've been using CH pedals for over one year now without any problems.honestly you will wonder how you ever flew without pedals.i just use an logitech extreme 3d pro joystick which also performs great....cheers Bill

[John Dow]

I had a Saitek but sold it on because it has a strong centre detente. My CH Pro yoke and pedals are now at least 5 years old, probably 7 or 8 years old now, and have performed flawlessly.

I recently invested in a throttle quadrant due to a half price sale and I'm finding the twin levers add to the realism when flying twins. I made myself some little (cardboard) covers that convert the twin levers to single levers when flying singles.

You will find proponents for both Saitek and CH Pro, I prefer the feel and reliability of CH, other like the steel shaft and centering detente built into the Saitek. Your decision should take the detente into account more than any other factor IMHO.

[greybeard]

Hi Uberscrew, I have the Saitek Pro Flight yoke and pedals which also comes with a three lever panel and extra switches that you can program without installing any saitek software (on a Vista pc anyway) using the flightsim control settings. I modified the detente forces and it is quite sweet to use. I also have a Microsoft (who?) force feedback joystick which for flight simming, in my humble opinion is still the best joystick for the stick flyers. I just love how you can ease the pressure on the stick when you trim the aircraft. On the yoke you get no such emmersion. So for anything with a stick I use that and my Saitek pedals and if the aircraft has a yoke I use that and pedals.

As for what make you buy there are folk who swear by and swear at both Saitek and CH equipment, I think your best bet is to try hands on even if not hooked up and see what feels right for you. As bill ho said you will wonder how you ever went without pedals.

Happy flying.

Cheers, Kevin

[John Dow]

I just love how you can ease the pressure on the stick when you trim the aircraft. On the yoke you get no such emmersion.

Cheers, Kevin

Ummmmm I get that with the CH yoke, the self centering force is strong enough to make me want to trim during all phases of a circuit...

[MarkH]

I am leaning toward the Saitek Cessna Proflight Yoke and associated add-ons

My advice is go for CH over Saitek at that price point. If you can go a bit higher, the VRInsight Master may be worth a look - I think someone here bought one? My exeprience of two Saitek yokes has been variable (poor to rubbish), CH much better and probably what I'd recommend. Click through my sig to find my video reviews of Saitek, CH Eclipse and Elite yokes. There was a used Elite out there recently in UK-land, maybe still available for under £250. Will pm you the eBay user if i can find it.

[Phil Manhart]

I love my CH Eclipse Yoke and it has rudder "paddles" in case you don't have a set of rudder pedals.

I used mine that way for about 6 months before getting pedals and it worked great.

Unless you fly choppers, having the precision of a yoke makes flying much easier, especially on approach in a heavy.

Sent from my VS920 4G using Tapatalk 2

[jaydor]

Uber,

We are all addicted in FSX of P3D, so welcome to the proper addicts scene.. Well my pennies worth to your question is to try and stay with one manufacturer when buying your equipment. That way there is not so much contamination. I settled on Saitek, although I had looked at all the others. But only you can make the final decision, but to help wet your appitite, this is my set up..

All Saitek control. I helped them make a profit this year as you can see..

James

[gandy]

Instead of the Saitek Cessna yoke and pedals i would buy this first

/>http://www.flightstore.co.uk/flight-simulation-c8/vrinsight-master-flight-yoke-p2413

you could probably save up to £60 if you are happy to buy from mainland europe

[Uberscrew]

Wow just wanted to say a massive thank you for everyone's time and input. I guess there has to be a lot of personal preference in term of the physical feel, link to the type of aircraft commonly flown and the future direction you'll take your setup. I was right its no simple decision.

For me I fly the PMDG NGX, Carenado Skymaster, Carenado Baron 90% of the time, therefore a sidestick is no good for me. I am happy with my Saitek Yoke and Rudder Pedals.

If you are looking at the Saitek Cessna Line then that is great as well, however I find the regular Saitek yoke to be more universal if you are switching around to other aircraft like 737's or Beech Barons for example.

If you fly Cessna a lot then that Saitek Cessna gear is the best choice.

Thanks Matthew it's a valid point and something I hadn't fully considered. I do currently fly almost exclusively in GA aircraft a number of which are Cessna. I am looking to move upto something that better fits a VA in the future and so I guess looking at the older saitek that better mimics the airliner yokes is real food for thought. Cheaper too right now!

Hi Uberscrew, I have the Saitek Pro Flight yoke and pedals which also comes with a three lever panel and extra switches that you can program without installing any saitek software (on a Vista pc anyway) using the flightsim control settings. I modified the detente forces and it is quite sweet to use. I also have a Microsoft (who?) force feedback joystick which for flight simming, in my humble opinion is still the best joystick for the stick flyers. I just love how you can ease the pressure on the stick when you trim the aircraft. On the yoke you get no such emmersion. So for anything with a stick I use that and my Saitek pedals and if the aircraft has a yoke I use that and pedals.

As for what make you buy there are folk who swear by and swear at both Saitek and CH equipment, I think your best bet is to try hands on even if not hooked up and see what feels right for you. As bill ho said you will wonder how you ever went without pedals.

Happy flying.

Cheers, Kevin

Kevin thanks for this advice, I have tried the physical feel of the Saitek and really enjoyed it but have been unable to get to compare it to anything else as yet. I think before I jump in I will try and get access to at least the CH equivalent....thank you.

Uber,

We are all addicted in FSX of P3D, so welcome to the proper addicts scene.. Well my pennies worth to your question is to try and stay with one manufacturer when buying your equipment. That way there is not so much contamination. I settled on Saitek, although I had looked at all the others. But only you can make the final decision, but to help wet your appitite, this is my set up..

All Saitek control. I helped them make a profit this year as you can see..

James

James I have to say that I am very impressed by the extensive range of what Saitek currently have to offer in expanding hardware beyond simple control surface management...the range of additional switch and instrument options is impressive. I am going to avoid expressing my envy for the setup but thanks for the picture because it helps provide real inspiration. Loving the Welsh flag which sets it all off perfectly. I get the feeling that whatever my choice I'll never be able to expand the saving account too much!!!

I now have plenty to think about and I will report back once aimhave made a decision. Once again the FTX community emphasises what is special about the virtual world of aviation...the community is everything. Big thanks.

[timmo32]

hi uber i use the same set up as james and i can say it works flawless,ive had it for 5 years without issues and its easy to configure with fsx,best of luck!

[Uberscrew]

hi uber i use the same set up as james and i can say it works flawless,ive had it for 5 years without issues and its easy to configure with fsx,best of luck!

Hi Timmo I have had a chance to demo both the Saitek and CH yokes today and I am leaning toward the weight and overall feel of the Saitek option. The later expansion of the saitek instruments and switches also is a very attractive proposition. The only thing holding me back is that the net is filled with posts from users of the Saitek yoke complaining of phantom key presses when using and an issue with a left sided calibration imbalance and a tendency to loose calibration information for no reason.

For all Saitek users I just wonder how you have personally installed your hardware. I currently have FSUIPC and I would like to use the Saitek driver and control software to maximise future compatability with switches etc...is there a best way to install and avoid some of the more common basic operation issues.

Timmo, James and Matthew have you ever experienced any of these issues and if so were they easily resolved? Thanks for your continued support guys.

[timmo32]

hi uber i have never had any issues wat so ever with drivers or losing controls setups,ive had two new computer setups since ive own these new controls and i can say that soon as i plugs these new controls in windows 7 locates the drivers right away and installs them without me doing a single thing,i dont even use saiteks software supplyed with the controls,windows 7 does it all,well it did it for me anyways people say it may be bad letting windows look for drivers but i can say this is the only time i would let windows do this,then i have to go into fsx and assign the controls to wat ever i want them to do,they are allready showing up in fsx in the keys and button setup,i have never lost any calibrations within fsx and find having the latest fsuipc is very helpful,ived used other controls and find saitek the best,just my personal opinion,no issues here

[Uberscrew]

Wonderful Timmo that's just the reassurance I needed. Thanks for getting back to me mate. I am just about to press the button on the order. Saitek yoke, pedals, throttle and trim wheel. Found a good deal over here in blighty and so may just throw in Track IR too.

I will certainly adopt your approach and let windows do its thing. Colour me EXCITED : ) now where have I left the other half's credit card?

[timmo32]

great to hear uber,you wont regret it,ive had nothin but good results with these controls,ive tried lots and lots of other brands and these seem to be easy to configure and for myself not being clued up with computers,it seemed flawless to configure,its a pleasure to help you out,i will only offer advice backed on my personal exspirences

[greybeard]

Hi Uberscrew, as long as you don't attempt to assign the 3 position mode switch on the right rear of the yoke and don't install the Saitek software you should be sweet. Just plug it all in and off you go. Oh and also plug the usb lead from the pedals direct to computer not to the rear of the yoke. (don't ask) and you won't have any problems. Err I hope!

Cheers, Kevin

[Dean (PC Aviator)]

Uber,

We are all addicted in FSX of P3D, so welcome to the proper addicts scene.. Well my pennies worth to your question is to try and stay with one manufacturer when buying your equipment. That way there is not so much contamination. I settled on Saitek, although I had looked at all the others. But only you can make the final decision, but to help wet your appitite, this is my set up..

All Saitek control. I helped them make a profit this year as you can see..

James

I see a Thrustmaster T.Flight stick there

Re Yoke and Pedals... based on data and experience selling them, my recommended combo at the present time would be a CH Yoke (standard or Eclipse) and Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals (best versatility and adjustability).

For joysticks, you cant beat the Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog for all-around function and quality... With Saitek X-52 Pro the second best, or best cheaper option. Logitech Extreme 3D for the budget end.

Good luck with whatever you get. As others have said, try to avoid using the software that comes with the controllers. Best to use standard Windows drivers. If you do end up buying some of the Saitek panel products, these will require the Saitek software to use, but if you can afford a little more, go for GoFlight panels. Much nicer and still modular in design.

[Uberscrew]

Thanks for your further advice Kevin and Dean it's greatly appreciated. I will certainly avoid the Saitek control software given the number of recommendations to just let Windows do its thing. Moving forward I do want to start building some switch and instrument panels but I will certainly take a look at what GoFlight offer.

Once again many thanks to everyone who has taken the time to post.

[domenic]

Just found this thread as I am in the market for a flight yoke also. Flying with a mouse and keyboard just doesnt make the grade. Think I am going to head for the saitek pro flight yoke and throttle quadrant.

Great to see the responses and recomendation.

Cheers

Dom

[gandy]

I dont know why people are still recommending the Saitek pro flight yoke, i reckon you have about a 4% chance of getting a good one in the UK, if you check out avsim forum you will see its the most problematic yoke there is ( the Saitek Cessna yoke only has one shared issue and that's the shaft sticking ). All the complaints tend to be about the same issues. Some people have been very very lucky in getting a good one but so many people are not it really is buyer beware as Saitek dont build them any more Madcatz do and the trick is to find one that was built by Saitek and not Madcatz. My yoke is so unusable it sits in a box as it is no good for GA flying any more as the shaft sticks on both axis which is not ideal for any type of manual landing, its great for CATIII full auto landings in my 757 but not if im trying to get my Cessna 185 tundra in a tight strip or just need some fine control on landing.

The Build quality of the pro flight yoke has dropped over the last few years and it needs constant attention to make it work correctly, FSUIPC4 wont help fix the issues it has only a refund will. Less people complain about the CH yokes if that is anything to go by.

Im not saying all Saitek branded stuff is bad and i can only comment on my Saitek Pro Flight yoke and other comments people make about them, which tends to be every 10 complaints or people wanting help one person will say they had no issues with there's.

The best pro flight yokes imo are the ones that was made 3 to 4 or more years ago as so many people are still using there's after 5 or 6 years there must be a difference in the quality of parts since Madcatz took over Saitek.

[Uberscrew]

Thanks for your input Gandy. Having now made my decision to go for Saitek I can only hope I am one of the lucky ones and I get a piece of hardware that does what I need it to and what it says on the tin. I guess not being a real world aviator my expectations won't be so high but I do expect to have to fiddle with settings for a while to get it functioning even without complicating the issue by using the Saitek control software. Having only ever used a low end Saitek joystick I am sure I will notice significant improvement. I guess when consumers experience issues you are gonna be able to read forums filled with negativity but I would have to counter that your not gonna hear from the people this hardware actually works for.

I will gladly provide update once I get this hardware installed and ask anyone who has invested within the last 12 months on one of the Saitek yokes to confirm if they are satisfied with their product. I guess time will tell?

[gandy]

I hope you buy from a good retailer just encase you need to return it.

If it has the common pro flight yoke calibration drift issues you will find out quite quickly, Madcatz ( Saitek ) blames windows btw which will make it difficult to return to some retailers and it will take up to a year for the shaft to start sticking ( depending on how many hours you fly a week ). I have heard that Saitek no longer respond to any type of support or they can be so slow its the same as having no support.

If you have the clock keep dimming on you that is down to poor storage before you brought it and there could be rust and corroded joints inside the yoke handle.

But like i said if you are going for the Saitek cessna yoke then that should be almost trouble free but it will need a little service now and then i guess under heavy use but if you fly 5 hours a week then you should be good

[jaydor]

I am very surprised at the number of suggestions of not install Saitek drivers. As you see in my pictured setup I am Saitek (OK Dean the T master is for computer2) I have installed all the drivers as I bought each item and never an issue.

The important drivers to install after the main Saitek driver is the Smart Technology program as this is the program to interlope with windows, lots leave that one out and get problems..

[Uberscrew]

James I think I am going to take your recommendation and install the Saitek drivers, which is what I would have planned to do. Now I know I have FSUIPC and windows will also try and domits thing but I do intend to expand the saitek range so I will start as I mean to go on. If I begin to experience issues then there is always the process of elimination!!!

I'll keep everyone abreast of the journey and any roadblocks I encounter on the way. This community has assisted wonderfully in my fledgling virtual career and I am sure it won't desert me now!

[domenic]

I am unsure which flight yoke i should go for now. ... Could it be that there are less reported issues with CH yokes simply because there are less of them out there??

Dom

[John Dow]

I am unsure which flight yoke i should go for now. ... Could it be that there are less reported issues with CH yokes simply because there are less of them out there??

Dom

No I think it's because overall they are a more reliable unit.

[chumley]

A week or so ago I was about to pull the trigger on a Saitek yoke and pedals to replace my CH hardware. I got caught up in a couple of distracting situations and didn't get around to it. Then up came this topic. having seen the variety of views from both camps I have now shoved my card back inside my wallet and there it will stay until I find something else to buy. The distractions were a pain but they have saved me from myself.

[Superglide]

Using CH, yoke, throttle quad and pedals for over 3 years. Use FSUIPC for settings. About every six months or so, use canned air to blow out the pedals and a little teflon lube on the yoke. No problems. For the price, I would recommend CH 100%.

[domenic]

Although I haven't seen either of these yokes in the flesh, so to speak I do prefer the aesthetics of the saitek pro. However there are a couple of you tube videos of these two yokes with their covers removed... and I have to say the saitek yoke looks very cheaply made and appears more mechanical parts than the CH yoke.

There doesnt appear to be any other choices out there at this price point however

Dom

[gandy]

just a heads up for those buying a yoke, if you are in the uk, flightstore.co.uk has a sale on and you can save about 10% or more on sim hardware and they offer free delivery as well. plus they have 10% or more off boxed orbx sceneries if you like buying boxed software

[Uberscrew]

Just thought I'd provide some update with the yoke install so far. Everything arrived as expected and in terms of the hardware install couldn't have been simpler. Loaded the saitek drivers as per the instruction manual and then the SST profile software. All seemed to be going reasonably well but then experienced regular crashes of FSX and each time the yoke and pedal joystick assignments returned to default which led to lengthy reprogramming.

Then after fiddling to get the sensitives of the different control axes right I finally got to some actual flying...boy I found it tricky..the transition from single joystick to yoke, pedals, throttle quad and trim wheel is quite a significant one!

However towards the end of the day I started to experience significant instability with my rig with regular CTD's and windows freezing. I finally decided to restore to a point prior to the install of the Saitek SST software. Once I did this I was able to enjoy relative untroubled flight. Tested again this evening and all went very well without any hangups. At this point I am very satisfied with the Saitek hardware but testing will continue before I breath too easy. I have to say though that the level of immersion this hardware brings is phenomenal. The only thing missing now is some force feedback but hey...you can't have everything...yet anyway!!!

I guess it is clear that I two rigs are the same and one man's setup is to necessarily gonna work for the next. There will always be some trial and error. But anyone thinking of going down the yoke route...don't hesitate.

[Rob Newman]

And one of the best things about the saitek range (and the sole reason I went with Saitek in the first place) is the throttle quadrants... I love how they can be placed side by side if you get extras (and so can the trim wheel for that matter) so now I have a trim wheel and 6 lever "multi engine" quadrant all in a one block... a whole lot more realistic than using one single lever for both engines and I can switch it up, change it round, add levers or take levers away as I see fit...

Very customizable (is that even a word?!)

Also it gives me 6 switches now immediately under each lever which I have set to the various flight instruments... altimeter setting, heading bug etc... I'm almost keyboard-less now...

[greybeard]

Just thought I'd provide some update with the yoke install so far. Everything arrived as expected and in terms of the hardware install couldn't have been simpler. Loaded the saitek drivers as per the instruction manual and then the SST profile software. All seemed to be going reasonably well but then experienced regular crashes of FSX and each time the yoke and pedal joystick assignments returned to default which led to lengthy reprogramming.

Then after fiddling to get the sensitives of the different control axes right I finally got to some actual flying...boy I found it tricky..the transition from single joystick to yoke, pedals, throttle quad and trim wheel is quite a significant one!

However towards the end of the day I started to experience significant instability with my rig with regular CTD's and windows freezing. I finally decided to restore to a point prior to the install of the Saitek SST software. Once I did this I was able to enjoy relative untroubled flight. Tested again this evening and all went very well without any hangups. At this point I am very satisfied with the Saitek hardware but testing will continue before I breath too easy. I have to say though that the level of immersion this hardware brings is phenomenal. The only thing missing now is some force feedback but hey...you can't have everything...yet anyway!!!

I guess it is clear that I two rigs are the same and one man's setup is to necessarily gonna work for the next. There will always be some trial and error. But anyone thinking of going down the yoke route...don't hesitate.

I guess I'm not such a silly old fart after all

Cheers, Kevin

[MarkH]

the sole reason I went with Saitek in the first place...is the throttle quadrants

You don't need to use the Saitek yoke to use their quadrants. I have two Saitek quads and have variously used them alongside a CH Eclipse, CH FlightStick Pro and Elite yoke.

[Rob Newman]

You don't need to use the Saitek yoke to use their quadrants. I have two Saitek quads and have variously used them alongside a CH Eclipse, CH FlightStick Pro and Elite yoke.

True, but the Saitek yoke comes with one quadrant already, so I only have to buy one more to make a 6 lever quadrant... If I had bought CH or any other brand yoke, I would not only have levers on it that would look out of place, but I would have to buy 2 separate Saitek quadrants... Hence I went for the more cost effective option... But you're right, the USB quadrants do work perfectly well with other yokes...