answered Please tell me why FSX keeps crashing in my fancy new PC rig.

[Mac6737]

Forgive the length of this post.  As I’ve said in another thread, I wanted to be scientific and isolate the cause of the (worsening) problem.

 

After a total crash of my 2012 PC last summer, requiring a new hard drive, etc., I had the local Big Box PC Store (MicroCenter in Rockville, MD) custom-build a PC that “would run anything FSX and add-ons could possibly throw at it.”  (My specs are below my signature.)

 

After a reinstall of FSX, Acceleration, and some basic Orbx scenery (Global Base Pack, Global Vector), everything seemed OK, if not perfect.  Over time, I added more Orbx regional scenery and a few fancy payware planes (e.g., Carenado Phenom, Flysimware Mitsubishi).  Often, my flights, scenery, graphics, etc., are beyond my wildest dreams.  (I have been playing with FS since FS2 in the late 1980s.)

 

Sadly, however, FSX is crashing (the sim, not the planes!) with increasing frequency, in one of the following manners (with NO other programs open):

 

(1) The cursor turns to an hourglass, after which the sim closes and a “Windows Error!” notice says I am “out of memory,” and must shut down the sim and adjust the graphics;

(2) The sim simply shuts down all by itself and recycles to the Free Flight opening screen;

(3) upon changing situations (e.g., “Load . . . “ a saved flight, “Go to . . . ” an airport, open the map view from the cockpit or Play a Flight Recorder .frc file, or even saving the damn flight, the graphics go “wacko” (sample screenshots attached).  From this, there is no recovery; it requires exit and reopening of FSX -- or sometimes even a reboot of a totally frozen PC.   

 

All of the above often occur even when my FPS are at the preset max of 30.

 

Have I tried experimenting?  You bet.  While these crashes are more likely to occur in high density scenery (e.g., Orbx England or S. Cal) and with detailed aircraft, they can even occur in sparse scenery, with the FPS running at 30 fps.  (Once, the sim crashed when I was parked at the gate with the engines off, and tried to load another flight!)  Sometimes, FSX is basically unusable, even in unchallenging settings; on other days I can complete a flight in dense twilight scenery (e.g., SE England) at FPS 30, smooth as silk!  As I say, the symptoms are inconsistent. 

 

I have tried changing the “TEXTURE_MAX_LOAD= X” line in fsx.cfg with inconclusive results, but the default of 1024 seems to work best.  (As I recall, Orbx recommends 4096!  I should be able to use 2048 at least, right?)

 

As you can see, I am posting this on an Orbx TS forum, but I understand this may not be an Orbx problem; this PC should run almost anything at FPS 30, irrespective of Orbx add-ons.  Right? 

 

MicroCenter and others seem to agree that I have plenty of memory.  (So why those Windows error notices?)  And the Orbx user docs claim that slider settings even higher than mine “will run well on most PCs . . . .”  With FSX in Windows mode and the Carenado cruising over Orbx regional scenery, Task Manager says my PC is only using about 30% of its available memory, including all the Windows background garbage.

 

Thanks all,

 

Mac6737

 

i7-8700 3.7 GHz

GeForce GTX 1070 Ti; 8GB onboard

AORUS Z370 Gaming 5 LGA 1151 ATX motherboard

16GB RAM

2 TB hard drive

27” MSI gaming monitor, set at 2550 for FSX

 

PS -- MicroCenter says I should consider a “solid state hard drive.”  Cost aside, that would involve a reinstall and perhaps numerous repurchases of FSX and add-ons; last summer, it took several weeks to get the reinstall working on my current rig, even with exemplary tech support from MS.  (I finally spoke (live!) to an extremely helpful MS tech support guy who said his entire job was dealing with FSX issues, notwithstanding advice from some MS personnel that FSX is “no longer supported.”  Go figure!)

[Jack Sawyer]

Hi Mac, I would highly recommend going for P3D, it'll be 64 bit so OOM's will be a memory, no more VAS worries.  And since you have so much Orbx stuff it will be a simple process to port it all over to P3D.

 

Your hardware is just fine for P3D.

 

Best regards.

[Scott Harmes]

The "OOM" bug is widely documented online and as you try and add more and more complex sceneries and addons in to FSX, you are more prone to it.  It makes no difference if you have a 10 year old PC or the most modern hardware, FSX, being a 32 bit application has a limit of 4GB TOTAL virtual address space.  Each addon you use in a flight including scenery, aircraft, weather addons, texture addons, traffic addons etc will add to that VAS until it reaches the limit and the sim crashes.  You will often see graphical glitches as it nears the limit, and even using the menu could affect it.  I have seen in the past that once the VAS limit is neared I am unable to take screenshots as an error comes up when I try.  Higher Max. texture loads and higher LOD settings will increase the VAS usage considerably.  In FSX you can set the LOD to it's maximum in the settings, which equates to a value of 4.5 in the fsx.cfg, but if you manually set a figure above that then you will have issues more quickly.  A setting of 1024 for TEXTURE_MAX_LOAD would probably be preferred for FSX over a setting of 4096, as again a setting of 4096 will eat in to your VAS usage much more quickly.  FSX is still usable, but you must limit your settings and simultaneous addon to control the VAS so it doesn't hit it's limit of 4GB.  I personally use FSX (Steam Edition) still and still enjoy it.

 

I should add that resetting or starting a new flight does not reset the VAS.  The only way to reset the VAS is to restart the sim.  Many complex airliners even have built in functions to pause at the top of descent to allow the user to save the flight, reset the sim, and then continue the flight in to the destination airport, to counter the effects of high VAS usage and the risk of an OOM.

 

To overcome these limitations, as Jack says, you may want to consider switching to P3DV4 (or waiting for P3DV5?) as that is a 64 bit application and has a much higher VAS limit, and will very rarely suffer from OOMs.

 

I must admit, I am a bit disappointed myself.  After spending a large sum on a new PC (specs in my signature) I am still suffering from some pauses, stuttering etc in P3DV4, after hoping they would be a thing of the past.  With any complex sim (FSX,P3D, X Plane) it still comes down to managing our addons so our systems and the simulators themselves can handle them, and also learning to accept and work with the limitations of those simulators.

 

Cheers,

[Scott Harmes]

2 hours ago, Mac6737 said:

MicroCenter says I should consider a “solid state hard drive.”  Cost aside, that would involve a reinstall and perhaps numerous repurchases of FSX and add-ons

 

Installation of a solid state hard drive will not result in any required repurchases, only re-installation of what you wanted to put on it.  If you decide to go the route of P3DV4, then a SSD is recommended by Lockheed Martin, but it is not essential.

 

Cheers,

 

[norfolk mike]

I'm not sure HOW much it helps, but in FSX, you need to add HIGHMEMFIX=1 in your CFG (unless you already have). It won't cure your VAS issues, but might give you a few more nautical miles before crashing out!?

[Mikelab6]

I remember FSX crashing caused by uiautomationcore.dll under Win7, but I don't know if this problem was fixed under Win10 or if it was a problem with FSX boxed software.

You could give it a try. Information here: http://www.ramoonus.nl/2010/01/01/the-fix-to-microsoft-flight-simulator-x-crash-on-windows-7-x64/

 

Mike

 

[Doug Sawatzky]

On 1/13/2019 at 11:42 AM, Mac6737 said:

(1) The cursor turns to an hourglass, after which the sim closes and a “Windows Error!” notice says I am “out of memory,” and must shut down the sim and adjust the graphics;

 

Hi

 

This is a decades old issue caused by the VAS limitations of the 32bit FSX application, and the remedies are too numerous for me to list here. Please do a Google search using the terms "FSX OOM (out of memory)" and "VAS (virtual address space)" , or you could also do a search on these forums.

 

Using FSX In DX10 mode with "Steves DX10 Fixer" drastically improves the VAS management , and greatly reduces the occurrence of (out of memory) OOMs.

 

It basically boils down to FSX being a 32bit program that can only make use of up to 4gb of virtual address space memory (VAS) this is not the same as the physically installed memory that "Task Manager says my PC is only using about 30% of " so when you try to run tons of addons at high settings with a powerful PC it consumes all of the available VAS very rapidly and crashes with the out of memory error. So the more horsepower you have to run detailed scenery and complex aircraft at the highest settings the faster you will create an OOM. 

 

 

The newer version 64bit simulators do not have this problem.

[W2DR]

On 1/13/2019 at 12:50 AM, Scott Harmes said:

 

Installation of a solid state hard drive will not result in any required repurchases, only re-installation of what you wanted to put on it.  If you decide to go the route of P3DV4, then a SSD is recommended by Lockheed Martin, but it is not essential.

 

Cheers,

 

 

And, a solid-state drive will only decrease the initial load times, you won't see any noticeable difference in the overall performance. Changing to a solid-state drive will do nothing to solve your current problem(s). I'm certain MicroCenter would like to sell you one but.....buyer beware...all that glitters is not gold ..........Doug 

[Mac6737]

Thanks all for your constructive suggestions.  The problem may not be solved, but I feel better knowing I am not alone.  I’ll do further online search as some have suggested, but in the meantime, I have some follow-ups (naturally):

 

1.      Doug says, “Using FSX In DX10 mode with "Steves DX10 Fixer" drastically improves the VAS management, and greatly reduces the occurrence of (out of memory) OOMs.”  Oh boy!  Worth a try, I’d say. But you give me too much credit.  How do I use FSX “in DX10 mode”?  Who is this Steve of whom you speak?  (I am aware of the checkable box that says “DirectX 10 preview.”  Is that germane here?)

 

2.      Norfolk Mike says, “I'm not sure HOW much it helps, but in FSX, you need to add HIGHMEMFIX=1 in your CFG (unless you already have).”  Oh boy!  Also worth a try (I don’t require perfection).  I know how to find and edit my fsx.cfg file, but where would I add the recommended code?  Any old where?

 

3.      Jack recommends P3D.  I have resisted going to another sim, but it may be time.  Can I install P3D on the same PC and use it as an alternative to see how it goes?  After years of FSX, I know a lot of keystrokes.  Wouldn’t P3D mean starting at square one?  And it’s nice to hear about Orbx transferability, but I assume I would lose all my planes, right?

 

Thanks again. 

 

Mac6737

i7-8700 3.7 GHz

GeForce GTX 1070 Ti; 8GB onboard

AORUS Z370 Gaming 5 LGA 1151 ATX motherboard

16GB RAM

2 TB hard drive

27” MSI gaming monitor, set at 2550 for FSX

          

 

 

 

          

[Nick Cooper]

Hello,

none of the suggested solutions will address the fundamental problem of the 4 GB VAS limit.

The FSX Direct X 10 mode is more tolerant of complex scenery and aircraft but that is all.

This topic will show you the alternatives.

 

The HIGHMEMFIX fix will do nothing at all to mitigate the problem, its purpose is to help with the loading of textures.

 

If you were to decide to move to P3D v4, all the current Orbx products for FSX also can be installed into

P3D v4 and there is no additional cost.

 

Payware aircraft developers' policies range from no cost at all to having to buy the product again

for considerably more money than the cost of the FSX version.

You would be well advised to research this before you make your decision.

[norfolk mike]

Hi Mac. For what its worth, the HIGHMEMFIX=1 entry goes in the [GRAPHICS] section of your cfg. I didn't know what actual effect it has, which is why I put the "?", but its just one of those entries all FSX users have considered mandatory over the years . I just thought it was a memory related thing, but evidently not. Still, stick the little bugger in anyway, as apparently it will help with loading textures .

[Mac6737]

On ‎1‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 11:23 PM, Jack Sawyer said:

Hi Mac, I would highly recommend going for P3D, it'll be 64 bit so OOM's will be a memory, no more VAS worries.  And since you have so much Orbx stuff it will be a simple process to port it all over to P3D.

 

Your hardware is just fine for P3D.

 

Best regards.

Well, OK.  But when I go to the P3D site, there's a lot of puzzling stuff about different licenses.  On the one hand, it says these uses are NOT PERMITTED: "Personal Consumer," "Entertainment."  OTOH, the Professional license is for "Simulation," and "Instruction," among others, and there is even a "K-12" Student license, supposedly also for "Simulation" and "Instruction."  What is this nonsense?  Are they telling me a kindergarten kid can get a student license to be used for "Simulation," but that I can't get a "professional" license for "entertainment" as a "personal consumer"?  Is this all a joke that everybody but me knows about?  (BTW, I am an attorney, with at least some familiarity with IP and licensing issues.) 

 

Nick says I would be well-advised to research before converting.  So, I've started the research.

 

Mac6737   

[Jack Sawyer]

2 minutes ago, Mac6737 said:

Well, OK.  But when I go to the P3D site, there's a lot of puzzling stuff about different licenses.  On the one hand, it says these uses are NOT PERMITTED: "Personal Consumer," "Entertainment."  OTOH, the Professional license is for "Simulation," and "Instruction," among others, and there is even a "K-12" Student license, supposedly also for "Simulation" and "Instruction."  What is this nonsense?  Are they telling me a kindergarten kid can get a student license to be used for "Simulation," but that I can't get a "professional" license for "entertainment" as a "personal consumer"?  Is this all a joke that everybody but me knows about?  (BTW, I am an attorney, with at least some familiarity with IP and licensing issues.) 

 

Nick says I would be well-advised to research before converting.  So, I've started the research.

 

Mac6737   

Hi Mac, this is almost taboo here, and on many other flight sim forums.  Basically you have to let your conscious be your guide.  I think I remember Mr. Venema talking about this somewhere on this forum but it would take me a while to find the post.

 

 

[jpreou]

On 1/13/2019 at 4:42 PM, Mac6737 said:

MicroCenter says I should consider a “solid state hard drive.”  Cost aside, that would involve a reinstall and perhaps numerous repurchases of FSX and add-ons;

 

Not necessarily. Might depend where you have FSX installed. I have P3D installed to D: and just had the store swap it out for an SSD. They transferred everything across and it all worked fine since the drive letter remained unchanged (D: replaced with D:) - well, kind of; they didn't set the drive letter, but I did when I got it home and fired it up first time and noticed missing desktop icons and whatnot; after that it was fine.

[jpreou]

On 1/14/2019 at 5:12 PM, Mac6737 said:

3.      Jack recommends P3D.  I have resisted going to another sim, but it may be time.  Can I install P3D on the same PC and use it as an alternative to see how it goes?  After years of FSX, I know a lot of keystrokes.  Wouldn’t P3D mean starting at square one?  And it’s nice to hear about Orbx transferability, but I assume I would lose all my planes, right?

 

 

 

P3D was based on the FSX code so *almost* everything is the same, but better, arguably. Try it, you won't be lost, it will be intuitive enough.

Most of your stuff will work, some will not; you will need to research each add-on and utility for P3D (v4.4 now) compatibility.

My new build specs are similar to yours but with lower CPU and a slightly faster garphics card, same mobo, and running P3D v4.4 just fine (for me at least). I am a 'light' user though. I do have an SSD, but as someone else pointed out, it reduces load time but not much else; but then, that is why I got is 'cos I got so fed up with waiting for initial loading from a cold-dark PC to flying status that most of the time I simply couldn't be bothered!

 

As for license; the first rule on ORBX forums is we don't talk about the license!

talking about removed

[Mac6737]

thanks, the first rule mentioned above applies here

[ftxpolo]

On 1/13/2019 at 10:32 PM, Doug Sawatzky said:

Using FSX In DX10 mode with "Steves DX10 Fixer" drastically improves the VAS management , and greatly reduces the occurrence of (out of memory) OOMs.

 

Totally  agree.