active Skiathos - building variety and LOD popping

[Britjet]

As a release item I have to say that in my opinion the Skiathos scenery is not up to the high standard expected of Orbx products.

The airport itself is fine - but..

 

The popping of buildings across the island is frankly ridiculous - there seem to be serious LOD issues here, which hopefully can be fixed, but a far worse shortcoming in my opinion is the almost complete lack of variety of buildings on the island to replace the default ones. The vast majority in this package are simple rectangular blocks with 4 or 6 windows. By comparison the default is much more varied in shape and design. It is very, very noticeable.

It now looks like “Toytown”. It is FAR worse than default.

 

By all means keep the airport and the few nearby landmarks, but please leave the island alone.

 

Britjet

 

 

 

 

[EasternT3]

 

The developer has said today he will address the LOD issues in a patch

 

As for the buildings, I’ve just looked at photos of the island, the buildings don’t look massively varied in real life, so I personally don’t see the issue, after all the default scenery could be wrong, (in fact I’d put money on it, hence the need for world updates)

Edited November 6, 2021 by EasternT3

[John Dow]

Have to disagree with the OP. One of the most immerse sceneries I've ever seen for flight sim. It's not an architectural simulator, it's a product for flight simming. The priority is fidelity in the airport. To me the rest of the scenery area looks very authentic as a background for the airport scenery, which is what fs scenery has always been about. 

[Saldo]

5 hours ago, John Dow said:

Have to disagree with the OP. One of the most immerse sceneries I've ever seen for flight sim. It's not an architectural simulator, it's a product for flight simming. The priority is fidelity in the airport. To me the rest of the scenery area looks very authentic as a background for the airport scenery, which is what fs scenery has always been about. 

In this case the developer has redone the whole island and not just the airport.

It is advertised as such.

So one might expect the rest of the scenery to look quiet accurate too ; otherwise the rest of the island could have stayed default MSFS PR scenery

…..

 

Hopefully the update fix will be released soon as now I prefer the island as it was by default because of the buildings popping…

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Saldo

[John Dow]

Interesting about the popping buildings you're seeing.  Right through testing and even now I don't see any popping of objects or buildings!

 

I have medium to high settings with the objects LOD slider set to 400.  As you can see in my signature my system is nowhere near high end.

 

Here's a video I just recorded:

 

 

[Saldo]

47 minutes ago, John Dow said:

Interesting about the popping buildings you're seeing.  Right through testing and even now I don't see any popping of objects or buildings!

 

I have medium to high settings with the objects LOD slider set to 400.  As you can see in my signature my system is nowhere near high end.

 

Here's a video I just recorded:

 

 

Go to : 2h 35min 40 sec + and look at  the town while the ac approaches the airport 

 

That is the building popping what we are talking about….

Edited November 7, 2021 by Saldo

[Condor]

I bought Skiathos a couple of days ago and I think it looks just fine. I tried to land the Junkers 52 recently and tapped the brakes too hard....not a good look

[Matteo Veneziani]

Hi, 

18 hours ago, Britjet said:

As a release item I have to say that in my opinion the Skiathos scenery is not up to the high standard expected of Orbx products.

The airport itself is fine - but..

 

The popping of buildings across the island is frankly ridiculous - there seem to be serious LOD issues here, which hopefully can be fixed, but a far worse shortcoming in my opinion is the almost complete lack of variety of buildings on the island to replace the default ones. The vast majority in this package are simple rectangular blocks with 4 or 6 windows. By comparison the default is much more varied in shape and design. It is very, very noticeable.

It now looks like “Toytown”. It is FAR worse than default.

 

By all means keep the airport and the few nearby landmarks, but please leave the island alone.

 

Britjet

 

 

 

 

I have chosen to replace by hand all the original fs2020 buildings precisely because they do not make the idea of immersion and authenticity that I wanted to give to the island. So I created 101 different models of generic houses with typical Greek texture that you can find in skiathos and this made it possible to create the typical "skyline" of the city of skiathos. Greek houses are mostly square blocks. For larger buildings, with particular shapes, for all tourist villages, churches, restaurants, sports fields, schools, industrial areas, ports, piers, etc., I created customized 3D models as faithful to reality as possible. I recommend that you take a closer look and discover all the custom buildings and details present.

 

For the popping of the buildings, I wanted to wait and see user feedback. For my taste with the right setting it is not something that stands out that much. They start appearing 4km away. However, I will shortly do a patch to fix the problem by increasing the visible distance.

 

however the toytown it seems to me very similar to the real thing, isnt it??

 

 

 

 

Regards

[AndyWsays]

1 hour ago, John Dow said:

Interesting about the popping buildings you're seeing.  Right through testing and even now I don't see any popping of objects or buildings!

 

I have medium to high settings with the objects LOD slider set to 400.  As you can see in my signature my system is nowhere near high end.

 

Here's a video I just recorded:

 

 

The popping is very apparent at 1000 feet+ above.  The issue is with the LOD parameters that Matteo used. I know he has acknowledged to fix it so it’s not a matter of contention that the pop in is very obvious.  FYI low level flights, in your case a helicopter in

my case a Stearman, do not indicate LOD issues but that is because you are so close to the objects. Try flying GA a little higher up and it will become very clear. 

[AndyWsays]

I would also add that, once the LOD pop in resolved then this will be another example of great talented work from Matteo. I have all of his other works also, and they tend to be the airports that I come back to time and time again.  

[Saldo]

1 hour ago, Matteo Veneziani said:

Hi, 

I have chosen to replace by hand all the original fs2020 buildings precisely because they do not make the idea of immersion and authenticity that I wanted to give to the island. So I created 101 different models of generic houses with typical Greek texture that you can find in skiathos and this made it possible to create the typical "skyline" of the city of skiathos. Greek houses are mostly square blocks. For larger buildings, with particular shapes, for all tourist villages, churches, restaurants, sports fields, schools, industrial areas, ports, piers, etc., I created customized 3D models as faithful to reality as possible. I recommend that you take a closer look and discover all the custom buildings and details present.

 

For the popping of the buildings, I wanted to wait and see user feedback. For my taste with the right setting it is not something that stands out that much. They start appearing 4km away. However, I will shortly do a patch to fix the problem by increasing the visible distance.

 

however the toytown it seems to me very similar to the real thing, isnt it??

 

 

 

 

Regards

Your scenery is a masterpiece ; no question about it.

 

Perhaps it is possible for people with less demanding pc’s to keep the current LOD and a higher LOD for high end pc’s ? …

 

JustMy2Cents 

[Scott Harmes]

1 hour ago, Saldo said:

Your scenery is a masterpiece ; no question about it.

 

Perhaps it is possible for people with less demanding pc’s to keep the current LOD and a higher LOD for high end pc’s ? …

 

JustMy2Cents 

 

You can adjust LOD in the MSFS settings to suit your PC performance.  It is a setting like Objects Level of Detail.

[Britjet]

Hi Matteo,

 

Thanks for your reply. It would seem to be the case that a 4km LOD just doesn’t cut it as discussed by others above. It seems to me that 10-15km would be better, but I guess you know best.

 

With regard to the detail elsewhere, I’ve spent some time looking much more closely at what has been done. There is no doubt that many things are improved on the default, in particular harbour scenes, landmarks and removal of Blackshark AI anomalies. I will post some comparison pictures which show what you have done..thank you :-)

 

However, it seems to me that particularly in outlying areas of the island, things are not so good. Example below, with Google Earth, MSFS default, and your scenery as direct comparison of the same location. In these situations there is a multitude of single-type generic autogen re-placing what was previously varied and more accurate default.

 

Here is what I mean. If these areas could be worked on with more diversity then I think it will be a great product.

GOOGLE EARTH, MSFS DEFAULT, Orbx SKIATHOS

Edited November 7, 2021 by Britjet

[Britjet]

I’m pleased to include the screenshots below to show your work.

Thanks,

Britjet

 

(DEFAULT, Orbx, DEFAULT, Orbx)

 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Britjet

[Saldo]

6 minutes ago, Scott Harmes said:

 

You can adjust LOD in the MSFS settings to suit your PC performance.  It is a setting like Objects Level of Detail.

That is something else .
A developer can give objects a certain maximum LOD. And above that value the inside menu slider has no influence …

 

[andy1252]

For me, the airport itself is splendid, but the other various buildings around the island are really not up to par. There are two issues really. The first, I'm happy to admit, is a bit subjective. All the new buildings are far too clean and look like they are some sort of marzipan sweetie. Not a single roof has any weathering, and all the buildings look ridiculously new. In @Britjet's examples above, for me the default buildings are an order of magnitude better than those supplied in this addon.

 

The second issue unfortunately amplifies the first. These new buildings are all to the wrong scale - they're way too big. Which just makes their shiny bright presence way too obvious. If you look at this first shot below, you can see the height of the trees at the edges of the car park -

 

And now look at the hight of the trees in front of this building, they barely reach the top of the ground floor -

 

And here's the nearest set of buildings I could find next to the actual airport buildings

 

I realise these houses are up an embankment from the airport buildings, but even so they are about the same height as them.

 

Is there any way to easily exclude all these buildings on loading, maybe a couple of individual files that can be set 'building model.OFF' or similar?

 

These buildings take the shine right off what is otherwise a pretty amazing bit of scenery. I've just upgraded to a 55 inch HDR monitor (not TV) and the environment here is just breathtaking (doesn't show up in the screenshots due to the problems grabbing HDR screenshots), but these buildings totally spoil it for me. They don't belong in MSFS.

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by andy1252
typo

[Matteo Veneziani]

3 hours ago, andy1252 said:

For me, the airport itself is splendid, but the other various buildings around the island are really not up to par. There are two issues really. The first, I'm happy to admit, is a bit subjective. All the new buildings are far too clean and look like they are some sort of marzipan sweetie. Not a single roof has any weathering, and all the buildings look ridiculously new. In @Britjet's examples above, for me the default buildings are an order of magnitude better than those supplied in this addon.

 

The second issue unfortunately amplifies the first. These new buildings are all to the wrong scale - they're way too big. Which just makes their shiny bright presence way too obvious. If you look at this first shot below, you can see the height of the trees at the edges of the car park -

 

And now look at the hight of the trees in front of this building, they barely reach the top of the ground floor -

 

And here's the nearest set of buildings I could find next to the actual airport buildings

 

I realise these houses are up an embankment from the airport buildings, but even so they are about the same height as them.

 

Is there any way to easily exclude all these buildings on loading, maybe a couple of individual files that can be set 'building model.OFF' or similar?

 

These buildings take the shine right off what is otherwise a pretty amazing bit of scenery. I've just upgraded to a 55 inch HDR monitor (not TV) and the environment here is just breathtaking (doesn't show up in the screenshots due to the problems grabbing HDR screenshots), but these buildings totally spoil it for me. They don't belong in MSFS.

 

Hi the scale of the buildings it is correct. Looks like you have something installed at your end which make the height of the trees very low. 

[Saldo]

On 11/7/2021 at 11:18 AM, Matteo Veneziani said:

Hi, 

I have chosen to replace by hand all the original fs2020 buildings precisely because they do not make the idea of immersion and authenticity that I wanted to give to the island. So I created 101 different models of generic houses with typical Greek texture that you can find in skiathos and this made it possible to create the typical "skyline" of the city of skiathos. Greek houses are mostly square blocks. For larger buildings, with particular shapes, for all tourist villages, churches, restaurants, sports fields, schools, industrial areas, ports, piers, etc., I created customized 3D models as faithful to reality as possible. I recommend that you take a closer look and discover all the custom buildings and details present.

 

For the popping of the buildings, I wanted to wait and see user feedback. For my taste with the right setting it is not something that stands out that much. They start appearing 4km away. However, I will shortly do a patch to fix the problem by increasing the visible distance.

 

however the toytown it seems to me very similar to the real thing, isnt it??

 

 

 

 

Regards

Any news on when we might expect a patch ?

 

Thanks

[Matteo Veneziani]

1 hour ago, Saldo said:

Any news on when we might expect a patch ?

 

Thanks

Hi, next week.

 

cheers

[Saldo]

That is good news 

[Nadeem]

@Matteo Venezianihave you decide if its gonna make it to P3D v5?

[Britjet]

Having updated, I’m sorry to say that the popping of buildings is the same. I am using terrain LOD of 240 and Objects 150.

Too distracting for me, I’m afraid.

Britjet

[John Dow]

Did you uninstall and reinstall? Occasionally the installers can miss something on an update, so the full procedure will ensure all files are up to date. 

 

I have no popping within normal viewing distances, but I haven't fixated on distant objects which can be a trap.  The other point is that many scenery and airport objects will pop into view at quite close distances, this is an MSFS 'feature' to do with XBox compatibility and the devs have no control over it. 

[Britjet]

Hi John,

 

Yes, I did a full uninstall and re-install. I’m using PC and I have popping literally right beneath me at altitudes of 2000ft.

To me this is an odd one - I’ve not had this issue with other Orbx scenery..

Quite happy to remove it all again and retry through. The airports itself is very good. I particularly like the sloped runway.

‘Britjet

[Britjet]

EDIT - Full uninstall again, deleted Orbx backup version, Reinstall with full download. Flown at 80kts @2000ft with Terrain LOD 240, Objects LOD 150..

Still more popping than I would personally  like - upped Objects LOD to 200 - only occasional popping, and a nice smooth flight experience in VR.

Would buildings LOD benefit from being increased (again) by a few km? It seems that ASOBO native buildings don’t suffer as much from popping?

But then what do I know..;-(

Britjet

 

Intel 6700, 32Gb, Win 10. PC version

[Britjet]

Sorry to persist, but I have looked into this a lot more, by comparing building “popping” at similar island airports…

 

eg..

 

Ponta Delgado - (with detailed Commercial airport addon) - NIL popping using default Blackshark buildings. I even flew there at 550kts, and still the same..

Santorini - Commercial airport addon - NIL popping using default Blackshark buildings

Skyros - default island - no Addons - NIL popping using Blackshark buildings

 

BUT…

Orbx Samos - Orbx buildings near the airport popping noticeably..

Orbx Skopelos - Huge popping. (Like Wack-A_Mole, to be quite honest..)

 

This is just a small sample I tried just now - If any doubt exists that the Orbx buildings are causing considerable popping then please try it yourself. Fly around a default island landscape and then do the same thing with Skopelos or another similar Orbx product.

 

I normally refrain from any sort of Forum comment along these lines, but much as I admire the work of the developers, something is wrong here with this autogen injection. Put simply, Blackshark doesn’t “Pop”.

 

I think it would be a nice idea to be given the choice of whether outlying default scenery is to be excluded..?

 

Britjet

 

Default Cessna. 80kts. 1500ft.
Intel 6700, 32Gb WIN10 3080Ti

PC MSFS2020 1.21.18.0

Objects LOD=100

Terrain LOD=100

Buildings=High

Off-screen Terrain pre-caching=ULTRA