answered True Earth GB South night lighting

[sidfadc]

Hi guys

 

First of all, fantastic work!  Going to take to the skies later for my first maiden flight.

 

Up in the 172 I've been looking around making sure everything looks ok, had some trouble with the order in the ini file but I think I have sorted that out!

 

My question is does GB South come with its own Night lighting which "overwrites" Laminar default?  The reason I ask is because I think the lighting is awesome, but very weak.  LR lighting has a certain pop to it and really stands out, flying over GB South I find it difficult to say see airports when its dusk/nearly dark?

 

Looking for advice.  I can provide screenshots if needs be.

Cheers

Thomas

[sidfadc]

Hmm no replies, the lighting over GB south is definitely not the same outside the region.  I’ll do some comparisons and post back.

[sidfadc]

This is a bunch of shots up above London City airport looking over Canary Wharf.  I don't see hardly any lights for such a metropolitan area like London, I can see lights including car headlights but no streetlights which defines the roads etc.  Is this normal?

 

 

[david broome]

I have also posted on this. Canary wharf building night textures are missing, you just get dark blocks for buildings at night. Also as you state the night lighting on some of the LT files could be brighter/better.

Hopefully these concerns will b addressed in a future patch.

Given this is OrbX's first major scenery for Xplane they have done a great job but it is a learning curve plus no way you are going to find all the glitches/bugs with a narrow beta test on such a vast scenery.

[Mojo123]

I second this. X-Plane default lighting is a good example of what it should look like. Canary wharf should be much brighter, even the dome. Other than that, bravo!

[sammy]

I’m looking forward to having this scenery with x planes default night lighting. The lightning is what separates this sim from P3D.

[wain71]

does TE South change the street lighting? It looks a little different now but it could just be my eyes...

[sidfadc]

12 hours ago, sammy said:

I’m looking forward to having this scenery with x planes default night lighting. The lightning is what separates this sim from P3D.

 

Yes actually now you mention it, it looks more like P3D than XP....I love flying at night in XP because the colours are so vibrant and crisp.  Looking out my 172 window using GB South you would not think its a major capital city, kind of disappointing.  Would be good to hear from ORBX officially if they have changed the lighting model.

[sammy]

Just purchased this scenery and orbx did a great job with the daytime scenery. I see what you mean about the lighting. Seems like the traffic lights and those skyscrapers around Heathrow have no lights at all. I love XP for night flying as well. Would like to see more effort on the lighting.

[sangsom]

X planes default night lighting is excellent.

TE-England South looks like ORBX did not pay  electricity bills.

[sidfadc]

This issue is a real deal breaker for me......not sure why other people haven't posted.  It kind of ruins XP default night lighting.  Flying around past dusk is just meh using GB South, real shame.  Hopefully they address this issue.

[Matthijs]

Any reply from the devs on this issue?

I purchased this addon yesterday but I agree that the lights are under ORBX standards. Will this be fixed in the future?

[david broome]

I think there are 2 issues here.

The first is that many city centre tall buildings are missing any night textures.

Just flew Birmingham city centre and it is like they had a blackout with just dark shadows for tall buildings, not even beacons atop.

I think that is just likely oversight given how massive a project this was and this is kind of an open beta or early access as the devs wanted to get it out to us - I think that was a very good move but perhaps they should of said it was early access or open beta so as people weren't too critical.

 

The second issue seems to be the LT textures and night lighting we do have not being bright enough. This can be changed by altering the lights.txt file but I wouldn't recommend it and it will be overwritten by any Xplane update anyway.

For a temporary fix you might like to mess with Xplane 3rd party rendering options script as you can always go back to default settings.

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/118594-rendering-options-for-xp11-released/

Here you can alter brightness and bloom etc of lights near and far but it may be better to just give OrbX the time they need to release a patch with the missing LT textures etc.

 

I am very pleased with my purchase and think they have done an amazing job but there is a little room for improvement on roads, bridges and night lighting IMO but then we know OrbX support their products well so what is already a worthy purchase can only get better from here.

[Orbx Flyer]

1 hour ago, david broome said:

I think there are 2 issues here.

The first is that many city centre tall buildings are missing any night textures.

Just flew Birmingham city centre and it is like they had a blackout with just dark shadows for tall buildings, not even beacons atop.

I think that is just likely oversight given how massive a project this was and this is kind of an open beta or early access as the devs wanted to get it out to us - I think that was a very good move but perhaps they should of said it was early access or open beta so as people weren't too critical.

 

The second issue seems to be the LT textures and night lighting we do have not being bright enough. This can be changed by altering the lights.txt file but I wouldn't recommend it and it will be overwritten by any Xplane update anyway.

For a temporary fix you might like to mess with Xplane 3rd party rendering options script as you can always go back to default settings.

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/118594-rendering-options-for-xp11-released/

Here you can alter brightness and bloom etc of lights near and far but it may be better to just give OrbX the time they need to release a patch with the missing LT textures etc.

 

I am very pleased with my purchase and think they have done an amazing job but there is a little room for improvement on roads, bridges and night lighting IMO but then we know OrbX support their products well so what is already a worthy purchase can only get better from here.

The problem I see here, in viewing these screen grabs...is that ORBX has their own custom overlay. Where you get all the roadways, default auto-gen and night XP default night lighting textures is WITH the XP default, Laminar Overlay.  So...that probably represents a problem for 3rP developers.  If they need certain visual requirements for their scenery to work, then, that will mask and mute all the default features sets, including the fantastic XP famous-for, night scape and lighting.  Nature of the beast....I suppose.

[ChrisOak]

Yes! This is an important issue, as well as the incredible installation problems (ftx central responds everything is OK but the installation has completely failed).

[Doug Sawatzky]

Hi, Chris, welcome to the forums

 

Thanks for your comment, but it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.....I do see from looking at your account that you have not yet installed the Orbx Libraries, they are required for your scenery to work.

 

If you need further support please start your own new topic. 

 

Cheers

 

Doug

[jellef]

I agree with the previous comments. The product overall is great. However the night lighting is disappointing. One of my first flights with TE GB South was from EGLC and fly over London City center. Right after takeoff towards the city when you pass the O2 Arena and Canary Wharf, they are completely dark at night! Even P3D looks better at night...

 

ORBX, please fix this.

 

Cheers,

 

Jelle

[sidfadc]

I’ve just been watching a live stream of xplane and the streamer was over London playing with the new 11.30.  He was changing day night cycle and he has

loads of lights as far out to the horizon.....?  So now I’m thinking this is maybe some kind of bug not affected all users....ok now I’m confused.

 

EDIT:  Or maybe he uses a 3rd party app to extend lights to the horizon?  Just guessing now. 

Either way its incredibly frustrating because by day, it looks gorgeous.  By night, its like I'm wearing a blindfold....

[Fizzelle]

I'm surprised ORBX hasn't responded to this issue. It's the one thing that spoils it a bit for me.

[sangsom]

On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 8:19 PM, sidfadc said:

I’ve just been watching a live stream of xplane and the streamer was over London playing with the new 11.30.  He was changing day night cycle and he has

loads of lights as far out to the horizon.....?  So now I’m thinking this is maybe some kind of bug not affected all users....ok now I’m confused.

 

EDIT:  Or maybe he uses a 3rd party app to extend lights to the horizon?  Just guessing now. 

Either way its incredibly frustrating because by day, it looks gorgeous.  By night, its like I'm wearing a blindfold....

You made an educated guess.

With "Reshade, RealisticNighttime,ini"

Even with Reshade: London City looks like this:

Very disappointing.

[sidfadc]

Yup nothing we can do unless ORBX addresses the issue or at least tries to explain what’s going on.

[T-Light]

Doug Sawatzky -

Quote

I do see from looking at your account that you have not yet installed the Orbx Libraries, they are required for your scenery to work.

Hello Doug.

Are you referring to Chris's installation issues or the night lighting problems? Are the Orbx Libraries installed by default alongside GB South or are these something we have to download separately?

 

Thanks,

Brent.

[Tony Wroblewski]

The street lights are Laminar Research library objects/lights, so they are the same as what you would get in the default scenery, they're just placed differently, e.g. The roads have less intensive street lighting than you would get in the US, and residential areas have lower frequency, because the default scenery would puts bright lights absolutely everywhere. 

 

The number of street lights you see are dependent on your object density settings in X-Plane, if you increase that, you get more street lights (as well as further out in the distance)

 

Several users use various hacks/config changes that enhance the HDR lighting range, this works on both the default and TE scenery, but it will cost in performance (even during the day when they're switched off). The lights can be made very intense, and whilst it looks really good, it could turn your sim into a slideshow as well if you don't have the hardware for it.

 

We are aware that some landmark and city buildings are lacking night textures and this has been noted and looked into. There will be service packs/updates for TrueEarth regions, just like there have been for the FTX regions.

 

 

 

[Tony Wroblewski]

20 minutes ago, T-Light said:

Are the Orbx Libraries installed by default alongside GB South or are these something we have to download separately?

 

TrueEarth England does not need a separate ORBX libraries download. It's a standalone scenery.

[sammy]

30 minutes ago, tonywob said:

We are aware that some landmark and city buildings are lacking night textures and this has been noted and looked into. There will be service packs/updates for TrueEarth regions, just like there have been for the FTX regions.

 

 

 

This is good news you are addressing the buildings and landmarks with no lights. This will make this awesome scenery complete.

[T-Light]

Thank you Tony, for both answers.

[david broome]

Thanks Tony, some bridges also need night lighting.

 

With other custom sceneries I note that they have some custom lighting in built up city areas that illuminates buildings and roads somewhat giving the effect you might see in city centres which also helps distinguish from more residential areas at night.

This helps immersion as in reality city streets are better lit than residential streets.

London and Manchester below for reference. (Not saying this is how it should or how I want it to look, just that city lights are more intense than suburban.

 

[Tony Wroblewski]

Yep it is possible to add HDR lighting to buildings (those that illuminate the surroundings), but when I've tried in large scale sceneries it can easily bring the sim to its knees, so I've generally only stuck to doing them on airport buildings in my own personal sceneries. Some of the plugins and lighting hacks out there will increase the lighting range on street lights which will actually give a similar effect to those shots above (i.e. Illuminated roads and larger beam areas), but at least for me I couldn't run it due to performance. It's certainly worth experimenting to see how forgiving your computer will be with these enhancements, e.g. https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/36455-better-lights-x-plane-11-v2/

 

 

 

[david broome]

28 minutes ago, tonywob said:

Yep it is possible to add HDR lighting to buildings (those that illuminate the surroundings), but when I've tried in large scale sceneries it can easily bring the sim to its knees, so I've generally only stuck to doing them on airport buildings in my own personal sceneries. Some of the plugins and lighting hacks out there will increase the lighting range on street lights which will actually give a similar effect to those shots above (i.e. Illuminated roads and larger beam areas), but at least for me I couldn't run it due to performance. It's certainly worth experimenting to see how forgiving your computer will be with these enhancements, e.g. https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/36455-better-lights-x-plane-11-v2/

 

 

 

 

Hi Tony, I have used lighting hacks ( to bring up the lighting (Doesn't seem to have much impact on performance) but of course it is applied to city and residential areas just the same.

In the scenery I have that uses custom lights I don't notice any performance issues. Perhaps they are just used judiciously?

When you consider how many lights Xplane actually renders I'm not sure why a few dozen custom lights would kill the sim but then I'm not a dev - you know better.

Is it possible to bring up the lighting a little on your autogen buildings as that seems quite dim and make the taller lit buildings a bit brighter still rather than just bring up the street lighting?

This would make for a more ambient scene, especially along with the missing custom building lit textures and also define cities from residential areas somewhat.

 

Whatever you experiment with I'm sure you will get there, the rest of the scenery is pretty much near perfection as far as I am concerned and I am chomping at the bit for TE central and any updates to TE south

[Gussgull]

hi tony I have asked this question so many times could you please give me a answer the tv mast in true earth south are shocking they don't light up at night they are incorrect size and totally wrong for the uk I have asked for these to be build in to true earth months a go it seems I am being ignored

so I am asking if you and john can make new tv mast for uk as lots of them are vrp for vfr flying night and day here is what they should look like  

[Tony Wroblewski]

@Gussgull You're not being ignored and it's on the todo list, but at the moment there are higher priority issues to resolve for the first update, e.g. The airport building exclusions . 

 

10 hours ago, david broome said:

Is it possible to bring up the lighting a little on your autogen buildings as that seems quite dim and make the taller lit buildings a bit brighter still rather than just bring up the street lighting?

I'm experimenting with this at the moment to see what gives the best experience vs performance. I've increased the streets light density, but the only affect this has is to make more little points everywhere rather than illuminate the ground and surrounding buildings more intensely, which is not the effect we're after. The night textures brightness can be increased easily enough, but I'm trying to avoid making it look like the night-time autogen you'd see in old style FSX sceneries (i.e. Bright buildings on a black surface). Just adding night textures alone to buildings does not illuminate the surroundings and can look quite odd. But I'm certainly working on this and trying to get it looking good

 

[sidfadc]

On 10/30/2018 at 3:27 PM, tonywob said:

The street lights are Laminar Research library objects/lights, so they are the same as what you would get in the default scenery, they're just placed differently, e.g. The roads have less intensive street lighting than you would get in the US, and residential areas have lower frequency, because the default scenery would puts bright lights absolutely everywhere. 

 

The number of street lights you see are dependent on your object density settings in X-Plane, if you increase that, you get more street lights (as well as further out in the distance)

 

Several users use various hacks/config changes that enhance the HDR lighting range, this works on both the default and TE scenery, but it will cost in performance (even during the day when they're switched off). The lights can be made very intense, and whilst it looks really good, it could turn your sim into a slideshow as well if you don't have the hardware for it.

 

We are aware that some landmark and city buildings are lacking night textures and this has been noted and looked into. There will be service packs/updates for TrueEarth regions, just like there have been for the FTX regions.

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply Tony.  The bit I’m struggling with is the approach you have taken is a serious downgrade from default XP lighting.  If I fly over default New York at night it looks waaaay better and more reflective of a metropolitan area.  Are you saying because of the increased eye candy that true earth delivers, you have had to scale back the lighting to keep the frame rate intact?

[Tony Wroblewski]

8 hours ago, sidfadc said:

If I fly over default New York at night it looks waaaay better and more reflective of a metropolitan area.  Are you saying because of the increased eye candy that true earth delivers, you have had to scale back the lighting to keep the frame rate intact?

 

No, in fact I actually add more street lights than what is in the default scenery, hence I'm actually trying to understand how it can appear darker (and I'm not denying it isn't). The issue appears to be that although we add more point lights, the point lights are smaller and dimmer so have less effect, e.g. There is much more smaller residential street lights than there are bright highway lights.

[sidfadc]

On 11/1/2018 at 5:58 AM, tonywob said:

 

No, in fact I actually add more street lights than what is in the default scenery, hence I'm actually trying to understand how it can appear darker (and I'm not denying it isn't). The issue appears to be that although we add more point lights, the point lights are smaller and dimmer so have less effect, e.g. There is much more smaller residential street lights than there are bright highway lights.

 

Thanks again for the reply I really appreciate it.  I think there in lies the problem for me, I would much prefer brighter highway lights than residential street lighting because this is what really pops when flying over default night lighting.  Flying over London and you can barely see the A roads and motorways gives the illusion of a darker less prominent visual.

[acarter87]

Nearly a year later and the lighting still looks awful, I guess Orbx took our money and moved on to the USA!