rockliffe Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Hey JV, probably like many other Orbx customers, I have been a loyal supporter of yours for more than three years now. Not just Orbx, but also you yourself. I respect your products and after sales service and most of the time I shrug off your, what is seen by most as, arrogant nature as just the way you are, however, I don't necessarily believe that to be true. I am writing this post, which I suspect will hit the dust within a very short time, to voice my dismay and, to be frank, anger at your recent post in 'Mesh Clarification.' I agree with what you have said about many of the things, but I really take issue with the contempt you have shown, to those you deem as the 'minority.' You say, 99.9% of those buyers aren't wasting their time and our bitching and moaning on forums about the "expense" of having to purchase a measly mesh product... John, I am one who apparently is wasting my time bitching and moaning, why? because I have bought a product that simply does not work without me buying another expensive addon. I know you say it is a 'measly mesh product' by that, I suspect you think £50 is a small amount of money. I can assure you, like many other people, for someone like myself who has suffered greatly at the hands of the recession, £50 is a great deal of money. I would not normally post a thread of this nature, so I hope you understand that I feel it justified. Please don't reply back saying that I'm full of BS. I feel as someone who has spent literally thousands of pounds on Orbx software my opinion should be respected. I hope you accept this post in the manner it is intended. Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjacobsen Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Howard You hit the nail straight and said what needs to be said better than I did in my post. +1 FJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyphone Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 I am positive and think that after the rant will come the solutions After all what they did is a great product, let's say the marketing strategy here is a big fail. I am sure Vector is selling very good, but just wait until all the buyers understand cleary they need to buy a second product to make it work... Anyway I am finally getting this Vector, let's see if I can also help to make it work better. Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 I have to agree with the opinion expressed by Howard. John, I'm sure there are many more 'customers' who, like myself followed the posts concerning VECTOR and thought it was clearly stated that while a MESH 'improved' VECTOR it was not mandatory. That seems to be contradicted by FS Pilot and now, it seems, ORBX. All that aside, I am offended by the attitude expressed in the locked post. I'm sure it could have been said in a much kinder manner and to tell your customers they are full of "BS" is just unacceptable in my opinion. ORBX products have been and, I'm sure, will continue to be state of the art and supported to the fullest extent possible. To this end I have written a few posts about VECTOR problem as requested. I have not entered the MESH debacle at all and do not intend to do so but I feel you should perhaps take a deep breath, step back and re-read your response to loyal customers. It just is not what I expected from someone I have had great respect for since the VOZ 0.99 days my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
European Mountain Man Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Hi all I got ftx global vector yesterday and have installed fs global ultimate Europe Africa I have had several airports on cliffs Lyon airport LFLL is one of them I understood that the elevation of the airports was sorted out . I think orbx should of included there own mesh for the product . Like other people I have spent a lot of money on orbx products and I am only on a pension and money is short . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdeisenr Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 I totally agree with Howard and FJ and I´m truly thankfull for your posts, as they keep me from writing another one of these "BS-posts" (as they seem to be understood) my own. This is just not the way you deal with customers and, besides all our headaches that have been mentioned in our posts, you crossed a line with being that offensive to your customers. But that´s human nature, I guess. So my fingers are crossed for some productive communication after the tide got sttled. Cheers Matthias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molleh Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 At the very least I think there should have been a big discount (30-50%) on the FS Global 2010 mesh product when purchased with Vector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyphone Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 At the very least I think there should have been a big discount (30-50%) on the FS Global 2010 mesh product when purchased with Vector. I agree and would have been more honest, not meaning they are not but simply they made a mistake in my opinion. Or if the discount is not possible at least explain cleary that such product without a good mesh would not be working for many technical reasons, then let the customer decide. Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Hey JV, probably like many other Orbx customers, I have been a loyal supporter of yours for more than three years now. Not just Orbx, but also you yourself. I respect your products and after sales service and most of the time I shrug off your, what is seen by most as, arrogant nature as just the way you are, however, I don't necessarily believe that to be true. I am writing this post, which I suspect will hit the dust within a very short time, to voice my dismay and, to be frank, anger at your recent post in 'Mesh Clarification.' I agree with what you have said about many of the things, but I really take issue with the contempt you have shown, to those you deem as the 'minority.' You say, 99.9% of those buyers aren't wasting their time and our bitching and moaning on forums about the "expense" of having to purchase a measly mesh product... John, I am one who apparently is wasting my time bitching and moaning, why? because I have bought a product that simply does not work without me buying another expensive addon. I know you say it is a 'measly mesh product' by that, I suspect you think £50 is a small amount of money. I can assure you, like many other people, for someone like myself who has suffered greatly at the hands of the recession, £50 is a great deal of money. I would not normally post a thread of this nature, so I hope you understand that I feel it justified. Please don't reply back saying that I'm full of BS. I feel as someone who has spent literally thousands of pounds on Orbx software my opinion should be respected. I hope you accept this post in the manner it is intended. Thanks... Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack the Swede in Spain Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Seems that i`m the only one here who are confident with JV and satisfied with my ORBX products. But on the other hand I´m just a silly Swede living in Spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadeguy Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Well, here's an opinion from the other side. I bought vector the day it was available and have been using it everyday since. Is it perfect, no, but it is possible to use it and enjoy it greatly without any mesh add on. In fact, the places I have visited...don't look like they need a mesh add on. That's my experience. Cheers all Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockliffe Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 Well, here's an opinion from the other side. I bought vector the day it was available and have been using it everyday since. Is it perfect, no, but it is possible to use it and enjoy it greatly without any mesh add on. In fact, the places I have visited...don't look like they need a mesh add on. That's my experience. Cheers all Bob Wow! I wish I had that experience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoticBeauty Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Very well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SahinCe Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 I agree wıth you wholeheartedly. Yesterday I posted a thread about a minor issue I had and instead of an actual discussion all I got was a rather snide remark that I should just put a bug report and move on, followed up by immediatly locking the thread (which is why İm commenting here). It seems that any comment that may even appear to be negative are shut down from the get go, because I never got a response like that when my comments were positive (and I have said some praises in the past). P.S. John it is not as you put Antara but rather Ankara, you know. The capital of Turkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcliff Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 "Please give us all a break and stop with this nonsense, we're tiring of it." - John Venema 2013. I'm not angry - I'm just very sad of this type of behavior. rockliffe - I fully support you in your objective and necessary criticism of the lack of product information - and now also poor customer care. (Posted Today, 02:27 PM) - John Venema said: - "Please explain where we have been misleading in any step of the way, for crying out loud!" And ends with: "This topic is locked". When I bought Vector - I read at flightsimstore.com: - "FTX Global VECTOR is designed for FTX Global BASE and requires that product to be installed also." http://www.flightsimstore.com/product_info.php?products_id=2712 Not a single word about that Vector also is designed for a unique mesh (instead of the default mesh). My conclusion: Do not rely on sales advertisement from ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripcord Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 I agree wıth you wholeheartedly. Yesterday I posted a thread about a minor issue I had and instead of an actual discussion all I got was a rather snide remark that I should just put a bug report and move on, followed up by immediatly locking the thread (which is why İm commenting here). It seems that any comment that may even appear to be negative are shut down from the get go, because I never got a response like that when my comments were positive (and I have said some praises in the past). P.S. John it is not as you put Antara but rather Ankara, you know. The capital of Turkey. Merhaba arkdashim. I think you were asked to post your useful information in a separate thread, and not add on to another thread, so that the valid issue could be tracked and resolved. Maybe I am confusing the thread, but I remember the problem you had and in fact I checked Ankara myself and it is indeed an issue that deserves a fix. The folks at ORBX are simply asking us to post a separate thread, make our point, provide a lat/long and move on to the nest location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
member111333 Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 FTX Global vector enhances the whole world. Even with the new Mesh I would expect thousands of problems unless you have a team consisting of a million beta testers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyphone Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 We are not complaining about the problems to be fixed and even not about being beta testers, for the reasons you FTX Global vector enhances the whole world. Even with the new Mesh I would expect thousands of problems unless you have a team consisting of a million beta testers. That is agreed. Personally I would not complain about that and not even about being a "paying beta tester", especially after learning about the massive effort this product requires. Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darem Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Dear John, The problem is very simple: Until now, I had no problems with FSX, FSGenesis mesh, all regions, a big lot of airports from you and FTX Global. Once Vector is added to that equation, the FSGenesis mesh (which I happen to own as well) is the ONLY way to avoid problems that START TO APPEAR with Vector. So regardless what is said in the manual or on the website, the FSGenesis mesh is DE FACTO mandatory when you buy FTX Vector. I don't think this is fair or good business practice. And I think this has to be said as long as something is changed about it - even if you find it tiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Düsselwings Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 One should never forget that also minorities have to be respected... After more than 1300€ spent in ORBX products I feel the first time sad and deeply disappointed... ( I have bought vector, because ORBX for me stands for quality, compatibility and very good customer service! But this post of you let me have a deeper look in your thoughts. Really pity... And that has nothing to do whether I have good or bad experiences with vector. IMO that was completely unnessaccery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfko Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 So far I'm very happy with FTX Vector. I have no additional mesh installed and have not experinced any problems yet. Mayby that's becauce I'm not slewing around the whole world looking for issues (Howard, this is not refferd to you. I know you are a very responsible minded person). Cheers, Wolfgang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teecee Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 I just read JV's so called "Rant" and to be honest he makes some good points, not least of which is the reference to a very small group of troublemakes that stir the pot at Avsim, then come here and do the same thing.. JV does not suffer fools, as is the case with many of us, and to be honest I would have banned a couple of these people before now (to be honest there have been times when I would have banned me ).. He makes a valid point about the availability of documentaltion re Mesh and Global, but it seems many did not bother to read it. JV has held his temper many times over the years when some of us, me included, would have lashed out. We have not been "cheated" here, and we really should give the team a bit of space. Teecee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
member111333 Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 We are not complaining about the problems to be fixed and even not about being beta testers, for the reasons you That is agreed. Personally I would not complain about that and not even about being a "paying beta tester", especially after learning about the massive effort this product requires. Ciao I do understand the critizism about the additional mesh product but for me I have learned that whenever I bought a product that enhances the precision and accuracy there were always drawbacks. I just say UTX or mesh products in general. On the other hand I have now much better coast lines in my beloved FlyTampa HongKong and all my South American and caribbean addons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RODI Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Sorry, but could anyone explain what "BS" means, because i followed all threads and meanings and this "BS" is new to me. Don't know what this could be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpspok Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Rock , I agree with ya 100% With that being said i have not bitched about this i simply have found errors and posted to help out most of us are doing just this and wasting our time and helping them find errors so they can fix them for there paying customers . With that said i don't see a post where he or orbx has thanked us for wasting our time to test there product that was released evidently to soon . Either way seeing how the issues are left totally on the customers and we are being bitched at like the post made by the CEO i will stop posting pics and locations of there errors and discontinue purchasing there products . You would not get this service at a store cause if you did the person talking the customer would most likely be dealt with by management . When i purchased this Vector i did not see nothing in requirements or a warning saying must have a mesh installed . Anyhow the problem i now have only started once i seen the post by there CEO about us being a bunch of idiots pretty much is what i took from it and others did as well . Funny seeing how we are the ones who make there bus. continue by purchasing from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolter van der Spoel Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 may I remind you fine gentleman to this post => http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/61929-ftx-global-what-is-it-all-about/#entry565142 Looks to me that all is explained very clearly since July 2013 and for Dieter, Bull Shit => auf deutsch => Stieren scheisse => eigentlich nichts gescheites zu sagen Wunsche Guten Rutsch aber pass auf fuer die BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredrik Johnsson Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 @ RODI. There is this wonderful thing called ″Google″ . I suspect what he′s referring to is what comes out of a bulls butt: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=B.S. Got beaten by Wolter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guenther Baron Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 + 1 Will not spent my time in reporting bugs ( unless someone will pay 300 $ per hour for my work ). > Thats is the well known German rudness everyone is expecting anyway ( : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpspok Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Read the last thread by John if your lost in this convo http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/70640-mesh-clarification/page-3 Well, here's an opinion from the other side. I bought vector the day it was available and have been using it everyday since. Is it perfect, no, but it is possible to use it and enjoy it greatly without any mesh add on. In fact, the places I have visited...don't look like they need a mesh add on. That's my experience. Cheers all Bob Yes if you fly in semi flat areas or ORBX regions which have mesh already then your good . flat looks good but goto antarctica or other areas people are reporting then repost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RODI Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Thanks Wolter for clarification. Now i can't die stupid. @ Frederik Johnsson I absolutely know "google" and use it every day. I tried it and did oversee the position where it is explained what it means. Sorry!!! Thank you for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadeguy Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Semi flat like in California? Athens, Greece? Hardly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CathyH Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 If you run FSX/ P3d without a mesh product, you really are not getting the best experience. I think John has been open and honest, and I certainly would never characterise him as "arrogant". It has been stated time and again that default mesh simply is not accurate enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpspok Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Cathy , Maybe so but the problem is in the way he handled him self is what there trying to get out in his post earlier in another thread that is linked above . Also there was no word about how bad this would be vector that is without a mesh that is what people got mad about the manual had the mesh issue mentioned in it not the page where people were buying it. Jon did handle him self poorly in his post if you click the link above some you dont treat customers that way esp. when alot of us including me have spent many hours helping them look for errors so they can fix them . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Gentlemen please, this company didn't swindle anyone, it has always been stated that Vector would look better with a mesh. We are all human here, these guys have worked there asses off to make us happy, giving us a great sale to afford some of our favorite scenery and we are seeing a whole new sim in the making with Global, Vector, openLC, and Pilots mesh Mark my words.......all major and most minor issues will be fixed. Read the lead ups to Vector, nobody is getting screwed. Sorry for the rant, hope everyone's doing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpspok Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Never said i was getting screwed read more and click the link by Jon that is what alot of us are mad about how he considered us which alot of us did 24+ hours of checking areas to help them get the errors fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlleyCat Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 To be honest given the bile being spewed several other forums, I'm not surprised John lost his temper. I seem to be one of the minority, or perhaps silent majority, who understood that Vector would work out of the box without a mesh, which it does, but a mesh would make it look better. Anyways back to my simulated flying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Never said i was getting screwed read more and click the link by Jon that is what alot of us are mad about how he considered us which alot of us did 24+ hours of checking areas to help them get the errors fixed. No, "you" didn't say you were getting screwed, that is true, but many do think they have been. I will be proud to help the ORBX team fix the bugs, it would make me feel like I'm part of the team.......lol Download All FTX freeware and call it payment from ORBX...lol He's JV not JC........(get it).....he doesn't have to be a saint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvic Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Wow, such a super big project and everyone is surprised there are bugs. NOT one Developer of Scenery or utilities or aircraft has a complete initial finished product in flight simming yet without issues or bugs. NO ONE !!! Going into this I knew what I was getting because the information is all there. I read it. It still is there. Not one person can prove such ridiculous accusations of FRAUD or Swindling.Yet, there are ADULTS here who want to think different. Sorry I don't buy that. One comment about not reporting bugs, then don't, but do not complain. You can't have it both ways. "A voice in the crowd is only heard when someone listens" anonymous As an ORBX follower, I am saddened how this is gone into an us against them sort of post. I wish everyone the best in your quest, I sure hope you can get past the fact that JV and his crew are working on the first service pack and I'm sure more plus updates, just as initially promised. Argue or not, MESH is the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big-mike Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Wow, such a super big project and everyone is surprised there are bugs. NOT one Developer of Scenery or utilities or aircraft has a complete initial finished product in flight simming yet without issues or bugs. NO ONE !!! Going into this I knew what I was getting because the information is all there. I read it. It still is there. Not one person can prove such ridiculous accusations of FRAUD or Swindling.Yet, there are ADULTS here who want to think different. Sorry I don't buy that. One comment about not reporting bugs, then don't, but do not complain. You can't have it both ways. "A voice in the crowd is only heard when someone listens" anonymous As an ORBX follower, I am saddened how this is gone into an us against them sort of post. I wish everyone the best in your quest, I sure ho pe you can get past the fact that JV and his crew are working on the first service pack and I'm sure more plus updates, just as initially promised. Argue or not, MESH is the key. 1+!!! Well said! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyphone Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Guys when you sell a product you have to state exactly what you are selling and not tell the buyers that they should have read the forum, the manual, should have read between the lines, got the technical information or whatever elese, the point is only this! Also don't say that Vector is working without mesh (and good ones) since clearly is not. Then of course I know mesh are needed, I got them years ago and switched to FS Global only recently while waiting for Vector. Anyway this is a great product, even when the bugs that will be surely solved. Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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