AndreaD Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 This is a question that has been with me for a few months now. A question directed to the guys at Orbx as scenery producers. In brief: if captain Joe lands his plane on the freeway and then goes telling Justice Smith, who's curious to know who to blame for the mess, that in his flight simulator scenery there is a runway right there, and that it is all the scenery designer's fault; do you, as scenery designers, fear that Justice Smith will hold you liable for the damage? Even in the not so probable event that you actually placed the offending runway in the wrong place. Similarly with flight models ("That's the cuptray in my sim, no idea why it launched the missile in the real F16!"), simulated procedures ("I have learned that trick on VATSIM!") or weather conditions ("I always fly through black towering clouds in my sim, sort of fun with lightings and everything, never had a problem with THAT!") It sounds like a stupid question, and I am pretty sure that it is, because I am totally convinced that pilot Joe will spend a few months in a psychiatric institute after that confession. Nevertheless, this is being debated in the flightsim community, so I just wanted to know Orbx's position about it. I have stated mine, but yours is more important. Andrea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDC Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Your question was entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetstream1 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Personally, I'd like to think that someone capable of flying an aircraft is capable of differentiating between a runway and a freeway. None the less, a somewhat... er... interesting question to pose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek McAllan Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Simulation is not a substitute for real world training or procedures, so no there would be liability. If you transfer bad behaviours picked up in a sim to real world flying, you're simply doing it wrong, and shouldn't be in command of an aircraft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrownCityMisfit Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 I am considering a lawsuit against REX for making such a beautiful sky. The real one looks like crap now. I require satisfaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreaD Posted November 4, 2013 Author Share Posted November 4, 2013 If you think (as I do) that this is an exceedingly silly question, you should visit some other forums and see with your eyes. On second thought, no, you'd rather not. Oh and greetings and love to Perth, my favorite place in the Southern Emisphere .... been there three times between 1984 and 1989, and that's where I took my wife only 8 months after we met: I wanted her to know the real me, and that was the place where I could be myself, which is not easy when you are 24 years old. Barrisdale Rd, not far from Garden City. Still remember the prawn cocktail at the revolving restaurant. Apparently it worked: after 25 years we are married and more in love than ever. I think I owe a lot to Perth. Andrea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek McAllan Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I agree, it is indeed a great place to live mate Wouldn't live anywhere else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetstream1 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 As Derek said, simulation no substitute, plus getting into positions like that would be highly unlikely, unless, like you say they were somewhat mentally incapable of common sense. Though, as you brought it up, I might venture into some of those topics tomorrow. It'd be interesting to see what sort of conclusion they've come to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreaD Posted November 4, 2013 Author Share Posted November 4, 2013 As Derek said, simulation no substitute, plus getting into positions like that would be highly unlikely, unless, like you say they were somewhat mentally incapable of common sense. Though, as you brought it up, I might venture into some of those topics tomorrow. It'd be interesting to see what sort of conclusion they've come to. Brace yourself .... hot stuff, seriously. Well.... seriously.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpreou Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Personally, I'd like to think that someone capable of flying an aircraft is capable of differentiating between a runway and a freeway. You'd think that, wouldn't you, but a mid-time student here in NZ very nearly did exactly that recently! I know the airport, location and road concerned and have absolutely no idea at all how you could get it wrong; it isn't as if it is a tiny paved airstrip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I am considering a lawsuit against REX for making such a beautiful sky. The real one looks like crap now. I require satisfaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Everything I own and use for simulation says that it is "for simulator use only" or "not for real world use" or something to that effect. I wouldn't bet against someone "trying" to sue but I don't think they would win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy511 Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Personally, I'd like to think that someone capable of flying an aircraft is capable of differentiating between a runway and a freeway. How about between a runway and a dragstrip? http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/53622-embarrassed-pilot-mistakes-racetrack-airport-runway.html 'Embarrassed' pilot mistakes racetrack for airport runway By R. Joseph Gelarden joseph.gelarden@indystar.com May 17, 2002 Oops. A single-engine private plane landed at Indianapolis Raceway Park on Thursday afternoon after the pilot mistook the drag strip for the runway at Eagle Creek Airport. "The pilot told the tower (at Indianapolis International Airport) he had the runway in sight," said Indiana State Police Sgt. Sam Maldonado. "He believed he had it in sight, but he was not familiar with the area. He didn't know Eagle Creek Airport was located next to a big lake and a big dam." The pilot was identified as Dan L. Legrant, 66, Edmond, Okla. He was accompanied by his wife, Patricia. "He was very embarrassed," said Scott Smith, an IRP spokesman. From the air, you can see both the airport and the IRP drag strip. They are about five miles apart. About 50 to 60 dragsters were testing on the track to prepare for races this weekend, Smith said. But about 3 p.m., safety officials closed the drag strip because of rain. About 15 minutes later, the plane landed. The four-passenger plane swooped down the drag strip and stopped. "He made a hell of a landing," Maldonado said. After the pilot stopped, track safety workers turned the plane around and towed it off the racing surface. Track officials gave Legrant permission to take off, but Federal Aviation Administration inspectors ordered the plane grounded because some paperwork was not in order. "It is a technical matter, and he should be able to take off (this) afternoon," said Smith. After Legrant talked to FAA inspectors, IRP officials gave the couple a ride to their hotel. Maldonado said the pilot should be more grateful than embarrassed. "If he landed when the dragsters were running, we could have had a disaster. God must have been looking out for him." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shermank Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 My wife feels sorry for my sim passangers.... Sherm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerribleT Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 How about a certain national airline pilot from a country near northern Australia who nearly landed in Darwin on Bagot Road instead of runway 36 in a medium sized airliner back in the 1980s? Sim training with FTX and AntsAirports may have been of benefit (if they existed then) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Newman Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Its not so silly a question as you might think... But the comments already made are correct... It's highly unlikely that anyone flying an airplane solo knows so little as to mistake a road for a runway... He must have at the very least been signed off for a solo cross country flight by an instructor, and believe me, as a former CFI, I flew many times the same route with my students to make sure the knew EXACTLY where they were and could handle it on their own It's also, at least here in the US anyway, an FAA regulation that all pilots MUST familiarize themselves with all data and information about the departure, destination and route of flight (including weather, NOTAMs and TFRs) BEFORE even stepping onto the aircraft, and only certain documents and sources are approved for said research and pre-flight planning... so if someone were to use "flight sim inaccuracies " as an excuse, then they clearly did not follow FAA regulations... And so it's on them. In such a case, I'm quite sure that the FAA would suspend that persons license. In fact, even using things like "skyvector.com" or similar mapping websites you'll see that it shows on the screen somewhere "not for real world navigation"... It's the exact same charts as are approved by the FAA, but the FAA has not approved the website... so it has to be marked... It is an interesting thing to think about though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lthendrix Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 anyone remember 911... i heard that a certain 767 sim was purchased and used for "training" I dont think the devs got in any trouble.... correct me if I am wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iflygary Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I would have to agree with Rob Newman on this one. Being a RL pilot, the one thing that stuck with me when I was in training and to this day, were the words my instructor told me when he signed off on my logbook for cross country solo flights. He told me my goal every single time I got into that airplane as pilot in command was to NOT make the six o'clock news! I can assure you, a pilot that mistakenly lands on the freeway for a runway will indeed make the six o'clock news. While he may walk away from it, the backlash of finger-pointing, whisperings at pilot's lounge , and just sheer embarrassment is certainly enough to keep a reasonable pilot away from such circumstances!! Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekdog Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 How about between a runway and a dragstrip? http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/53622-embarrassed-pilot-mistakes-racetrack-airport-runway.html 'Embarrassed' pilot mistakes racetrack for airport runway Around 1965 or so a similar thing almost happened at Darlington Dragway; just as two dragsters took off from the start line a Cessna was coming in for a landing. Luckily, the pilot was approaching from the same direction they were going and saw his mistake in time to abort. Talk about making an impression on a little kid, I'll NEVER forget that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emin Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Even though suing other people is national sport of US, since nobody is blaming Grand Theft Auto for real crimes, I guess such risk is almost zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLA1836 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Personally, I'd like to think that someone capable of flying an aircraft is capable of differentiating between a runway and a freeway. None the less, a somewhat... er... interesting question to pose. Hi Jetstream1 A few years back a Garuda pilot was all set to land on the approach road to Perth International at night ( it runs parallel to the main runway) - ATC sent him on a go-around. No surprises in the real world ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetstream1 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I think it's safe to say I stand very much corrected! Us humans make some daft mistakes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreaD Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 Hi Jetstream1 A few years back a Garuda pilot was all set to land on the approach road to Perth International at night ( it runs parallel to the main runway) - ATC sent him on a go-around. No surprises in the real world ! Guess on second attempt the pilot demanded to land on the SAME runway .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerribleT Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 My oblique reference to Darwin 36 above was also Garuda trying to land on the parallel Bagot Road - tropical wet season visibility and dusk as well - he was sent around to the legal active - ILS runway 29. Then there was the Ansett ANG F27 captain in the 1960s who, in intense tropical monsoon weather in the PNG islands, managed to land on the right runway but the wrong airstrip about ten miles misplaced - it was also shortish grass and not longish bitumen - he compounded the issue in official eyes by taking off and landing on the right airstrip. Condemned to co-pilot on DC-3 freight runs for several years, ex-WWII RAAF bomber pilot he just took it on the chin. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Back on thread - there is no provable negligence raised in the original question nor is there any provable contributory negligence - not even in US liability morassic law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterman981 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Reminds me of the C-17 landing on at a regional airport last year: http://www.theledger.com/article/20130124/NEWS/130129611 The videos of that are great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iflygary Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Here's what happened when an Air Force pilot accidentally landed a C-17 at Peter O Knight airport here in Tampa where I fly out of . I still have to go back to my instructor's words of making sure as pilot in command to not end up on the 6 o'clock news. Peter O Knight is a mere four nautical miles away from MacDill Air Force base, so pre-planning and attentiveness are top priorities when flying in and out of these airports. Gary http://www.flyingmag.com/pilots-places/pilots-adventures-more/video-c-17-accidentally-lands-small-ga-airport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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