v5 - Into Whangarei & v5 Illumination queries

[TigerTigerM]

Avro Tutor coming into Orbx Whangerei at dawn, Orbx #4 weather & v5 'enhanced light' on.

I noticed that the light/darkness of the shots was affected by the relative positioning of the 'camera' to the subject.  Small changes had quite an effect.

Commentary with shots, none of which have been tweaked to improve them.

I never experienced this in v4.5.

Any thoughts on what me causing this big swing in shot illumination?

TTM

(P3D v5)

 

Silhouette effect.

 

Taken from behind, slightly above aircraft. 

 

Closer in & camera elevated further above aircraft, this brings more light into play.

 

Dropped camera back down, shot is darker

 

Not as much light as I would have liked.

 

3x magnification side shot.

 

Same shot, 2x magnification. Note how much darker it gets with the camera pulled back

 

Cockpit, looking down.

 

Same shot camera position, looking straight ahead. Can't explain the big variation.

 

 

 

 

[VH-KDK]

Some great views amongst your set.

Hopefully someone can help with this problem for you.

 

[adambar]

Have no idea, not having any problems with V5 myself, much better than V4.5 or XP. 

[ozboater]

Just love the atmosphere.

You must have had fun.

[ozboater]

@TigerTigerM  "Same shot camera position, looking straight ahead. Can't explain the big variation. "

 

I can explain it, as I was confused with some of my views also, 'till I figured it out. And I rather like it.

The view is acting like a camera exposure, so with no bright sky, the cockpit is properly exposed.

When you lift your view and get the much brighter sky included, the 'camera' adjusts the 'exposure' so the sky is not washed out, but the cockpit is darker.

 

Being an avid photographer, I quite like this. There may be a setting to adjust.

 

My P3Dv5 is running absolutely to perfection. Totally happy.

[TigerTigerM]

31 minutes ago, ozboater said:

@TigerTigerM  "Same shot camera position, looking straight ahead. Can't explain the big variation. "

 

I can explain it, as I was confused with some of my views also, 'till I figured it out. And I rather like it.

The view is acting like a camera exposure, so with no bright sky, the cockpit is properly exposed.

When you lift your view and get the much brighter sky included, the 'camera' adjusts the 'exposure' so the sky is not washed out, but the cockpit is darker.

 

Being an avid photographer, I quite like this. There may be a setting to adjust.

 

My P3Dv5 is running absolutely to perfection. Totally happy.

Well that makes sense.

Could you have a look at my "Into Whangarei Again" post & tell me if - 

- you run Enhanced Atmosphere" On??

& your thoughts on the 'blue/lilac' when I have EA Off?

 What Bloom, Saturation & Brightness numbers are you using in Lighting??

Thanks

TTM

[lifejogger]

Sorry about the lighting problem, however the shots look very good.

[Jack Sawyer]

Interesting stuff, I guess I'll be sticking with 4.5 for a very long time.

[ozboater]

Can't help much with the settings, except to say that I've not yeat touched any settings on the lighting page. Have maxed all the World settings, though.

Quite simply, everyone's monitor/screen puts up a different image, in terms of Gamma, Saturation and Contrast, so the same settings for one won't necessarily look great for another.

It is free to play with these settings to find out just how you want the sim to look. Generally, they don't affect performance, so give it a go.

 

Enhanced atmosphere - I've not ticked it yet to see. I'm so busy getting my stuff installed, and playing with it. I'm happy enough as it is, without enabling it.

 

Loved the sillouette shot.

[Adam Banks]

9 hours ago, ozboater said:

I can explain it, as I was confused with some of my views also, 'till I figured it out. And I rather like it.

The view is acting like a camera exposure, so with no bright sky, the cockpit is properly exposed.

When you lift your view and get the much brighter sky included, the 'camera' adjusts the 'exposure' so the sky is not washed out, but the cockpit is darker.

 

Being an avid photographer, I quite like this. There may be a setting to adjust.

 

I totally disagree with this theory. If anything, it works in exactly the opposite manner. Your pupils (and camera) compensate when looking into the sun by *darkening* everything - then lighten areas when the source is dark[er]. IMHO, P3Dv5 gets this the wrong way round.

[Adam Banks]

11 hours ago, TigerTigerM said:

Avro Tutor coming into Orbx Whangerei at dawn, Orbx #4 weather & v5 'enhanced light' on.

I noticed that the light/darkness of the shots was affected by the relative positioning of the 'camera' to the subject.  Small changes had quite an effect.

Commentary with shots, none of which have been tweaked to improve them.

I never experienced this in v4.5.

Any thoughts on what me causing this big swing in shot illumination?

 

That's exactly what I get - thanks for posting the pics and confirming. I've enjoyed all your screenshots for a long time so I'm not likely to disagree with where you're coming from.

 

This pseudo lighting effect completely ruins P3D as I can find no way of turning it off. It's almost as if we have 75% HDR bloom set to on - regardless of the fact that it's set to 0.

 

Adam.

 

EDIT: What video card are you using?

 

[ozboater]

10 minutes ago, Adam Banks said:

 Your pupils (and camera) compensate when looking into the sun by *darkening* everything - then lighten areas when the source is dark[er].

You've Got It. That's exactly the way it works.

Looking into the dark cockpit, exposure is adjusted so it looks normal.

Add more light source and the cockpit goes darker. Just like RL.

 

I kept playing with it when the 'light' came on, just to see. I rather like it.

Just another tiny touch more realism in v5.

 

PS - was tempted to say - " I've got a Contrasting view" coz it's all in the percieved contrast.

[Adam Banks]

3 minutes ago, ozboater said:

You've Got It. That's exactly the way it works.

Looking into the dark cockpit, exposure is adjusted so it looks normal.

Add more light source and the cockpit goes darker. Just like RL.

 

I see what you mean ... but ... the problem is that in external views, v5 is over-bleaching *the whole scene* when looking towards the light source, then over-darkening when looking away from the source. The old "oily black water" phenomenon is an example of exactly that.

 

It still looks all wrong to me - compared to v4.5.

[ozboater]

2 minutes ago, Adam Banks said:

 

 ... but ... the problem is that in external view

 

Yes, it's different to v4. So far I have not touched the Lighting sliders as I settle in to v5, as just too busy locating and getting my v5 updated planes, and just playing with the sim.

It may well be a manipulation of the Lighting sliders, or even a switch (I have'nt looked) to perfect your view.

I mean, look at how stuff like Tomato Shade and PTA changed things, and that was just manipulation of what wasalready  there.

But there you go, and YMMV. I quite like it.

[Eberhard Haberkorn]

Great looking shots!

[schtroumf]

Excellent this biplane

[TigerTigerM]

8 hours ago, Adam Banks said:

 

That's exactly what I get - thanks for posting the pics and confirming. I've enjoyed all your screenshots for a long time so I'm not likely to disagree with where you're coming from.

 

This pseudo lighting effect completely ruins P3D as I can find no way of turning it off. It's almost as if we have 75% HDR bloom set to on - regardless of the fact that it's set to 0.

 

Adam.

 

EDIT: What video card are you using?

Adam

I am running an i5-4690K @ 3.50GHZ with 16GB RAM, & the card is an Nividia GeForce GTX 1060 with 6GB of VRAM.

I am finding that the system is making only 5GB of VRAM available & so far my VRAM use has ranged between 2.9 to 4.1, depending on the complexity of the aircraft & scenery.

It hasn't been 'glitchy', but I am at the limits with VRAM use for my card, I suspect.

I am going to fiddle with Scenario set ups  to see if I can get better v5  shots.

TTM

[Adam Banks]

1 minute ago, TigerTigerM said:

I am going to fiddle with Scenario set ups  to see if I can get better v5  shots.

TTM

Oddly enough ... that's the direction I'm going in too ...

 

At the risk of the usual GDI crash, I gradually ramped up my display settings. Obviously (in the minute or two flying I get LOL) the scene is generally much better ... especially if you avoid the few hours either side of noon.

 

The major observation is that the awful lightening/darkening of the scene (depending on camera angle) is almost totally gone - and the colouring is [not perfect but] way better.

 

So ... I suspect having a more powerful GPU will allow you to leap-frog over these troublesome low-quality settings - which could explain why many people just aren't seeing what we're seeing.

The problem remains, though, that my 4GB (3.5GB really) GTX970 is simply not grunty enough to be able to access these higher settings - so I'm effectively stuffed, as they say!

 

I'll make a note of the last/highest settings I could run at (for a short while!!) and post them here. Maybe we can work out which particular setting is causing the most visual damage.

[Senchay]

Hello :-)

 

that LOWI pics were from me. I'm running with a RTX 2080 with 8 GB. And even with this I have GPU hangs from vram flooding on some airports, so if you even think about getting a new GPU then go for at least 12gb. I hope LM can address this and of course the add-on developers too by tweaking the performance further.

Im not someone who raised his settings all to the right, even with medium settings I get GPU hangs that result in ctd. But LM is aware of it, let's hope they find a way to improve vram usage.

 

About the lighting thing. I hate it as well :-) it was there in v4 too though, just the most ppl used some form of PTA or Tomatoshade preset and in all of the ones I know, including my own, the luminance adaption was turned off. 

so a great part of ppl never saw this luminance adaption.

 

How I got the pics so colored is easy hehe. But I'm afraid the answer is not really that pleasing because it's only good for the pic, flying is still same.

im simply fast to make the screenshot, before the adaption can fully work. So I turn the cam against bright spots and wait until the scene gets darker, then turn the cam to the position I want the screenshot in and as fast as I can press Printscreen....

 

That's the whole trick. I really hope we can turn it off one day. But I'm afraid that will be a while.

 

[TigerTigerM]

26 minutes ago, Adam Banks said:

Oddly enough ... that's the direction I'm going in too ...

 

At the risk of the usual GDI crash, I gradually ramped up my display settings. Obviously (in the minute or two flying I get LOL) the scene is generally much better ... especially if you avoid the few hours either side of noon.

 

The major observation is that the awful lightening/darkening of the scene (depending on camera angle) is almost totally gone - and the colouring is [not perfect but] way better.

 

So ... I suspect having a more powerful GPU will allow you to leap-frog over these troublesome low-quality settings - which could explain why many people just aren't seeing what we're seeing.

The problem remains, though, that my 4GB (3.5GB really) GTX970 is simply not grunty enough to be able to access these higher settings - so I'm effectively stuffed, as they say!

 

I'll make a note of the last/highest settings I could run at (for a short while!!) and post them here. Maybe we can work out which particular setting is causing the most visual damage.

Adam

Toga/Envshade for v5 has just come out. I will probably try that. I note they prefer it to be used with "Enhanced atmosphere" turned off

Cheers
TTM

[Eberhard Haberkorn]

Quote

The problem remains, though, that my 4GB (3.5GB really) GTX970 is simply not grunty enough to be able to access these higher settings - so I'm effectively stuffed, as they say!

 

Adam I feel your pain. My card has only 2GB.

[Adam Banks]

16 hours ago, TigerTigerM said:

Toga/Envshade for v5 has just come out. I will probably try that. I note they prefer it to be used with "Enhanced atmosphere" turned off

 

I might look at that, thanks, as I suspect both PTA and Tomatoshade are gone-burgers.

 

15 hours ago, Eberhard Haberkorn said:

Adam I feel your pain. My card has only 2GB.

 

Ouch, ouch, ouch!!!!!

 

 

16 hours ago, Senchay said:

just the most ppl used some form of PTA or Tomatoshade preset and in all of the ones I know, including my own, the luminance adaption was turned off. 

 

so a great part of ppl never saw this luminance adaption.

 

That's the whole trick. I really hope we can turn it off one day. But I'm afraid that will be a while.

 

 

Now there's a really good piece of info. This "luminance adaption" has always been a bugbear for me. I think it accounts for a fair proportion of my misgivings with P3Dv5 lighting, as it appears to be especially pronounced at the lower display settings (where maybe the other atmospherics would normally mask it).

 

At higher display qualities, the excessive shadowing is still there but this [awful] adaption effect is largely gone. See my [drastic] "fix":

I'm going to dig around the P3Dv5 cfg to see if I can force adaption off manually.

 

Adam.