renault Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 I've always loved being up early in the morn, just after a shower when the sun is just coming up and the City is quiet. For me its a magic time …. the reflections, the little puddles reminding one of the storm long since passed . It seems you have the airport completely to yourself - the start of a brand new day Thanks very much for stopping by Cheers Renault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olderndirt Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Little Red Riding Hood said "What big reflections you have Granmama" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodger Pettichord Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Renault, it even smells fresh. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adambar Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Dang nice shot R! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sawyer Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 How in the world can this not be a screenshot winner? This is amazing Pete! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Emms Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Great shot. cheers Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy1252 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Hi Pete, that's an amazing shot and it's in my grabbed folder now. I'm going to say something here though, and it's not a criticism but I'm curious and I suspect, being the technician you are, you'd possibly be interested in the impression your pic has created. So - have you turned shadows off or done anything unusual with any LUA experimentation here? The reflections and lighting and PBR effect on the plane make it look good enough to eat, but to me it looks like it's floating. There's no shadow where the wheels touch the ground, and particularly with the (aircraft's) left hand wheel seemingly being smack in the middle of that wonderful rain reflection, it just looks wrong to me. Gorgeous, but not quite right, if you see what I mean. Or maybe I've got the perspective wrong. Can't figure it out for sure but it's like a distant beeping in the back of my perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renault Posted September 24, 2019 Author Share Posted September 24, 2019 6 hours ago, olderndirt said: Little Red Riding Hood said "What big reflections you have Granmama" Cheers OND ! R 5 hours ago, Rodger Pettichord said: Renault, it even smells fresh. Thanks! Thanks Rodger Cheers R 3 hours ago, adambar said: Dang nice shot R! Thanks Adam I'm very pleased that you enjoyed it See you Pete 1 hour ago, Jack Sawyer said: How in the world can this not be a screenshot winner? This is amazing Pete! Ah I don't know about that Jack. There are simply so many excellent screenshots these days - its just a glorious time to be a member here . We get to enjoy every one of them But thank you . I sincerely appreciate it! See you Pete 1 hour ago, Iain Emms said: Great shot. cheers Iain Thank you Iain I appreciate it! See you Cheers Pete 23 minutes ago, andy1252 said: Hi Pete, that's an amazing shot and it's in my grabbed folder now. I'm going to say something here though, and it's not a criticism but I'm curious and I suspect, being the technician you are, you'd possibly be interested in the impression your pic has created. So - have you turned shadows off or done anything unusual with any LUA experimentation here? The reflections and lighting and PBR effect on the plane make it look good enough to eat, but to me it looks like it's floating. There's no shadow where the wheels touch the ground, and particularly with the (aircraft's) left hand wheel seemingly being smack in the middle of that wonderful rain reflection, it just looks wrong to me. Gorgeous, but not quite right, if you see what I mean. Or maybe I've got the perspective wrong. Can't figure it out for sure but it's like a distant beeping in the back of my perception. Thanks Andy. I think that your feedback is wonderful and I really appreciate being able to comment To be truthful I wondered a lot about it myself before I posted it as the left wheel does indeed look like its floating. I always end up with a lot of screenshots whenever I take "just the one" and you might enjoy seeing a few of the companions to this one. All are just slightly differing perspectives - why I chose this one . Well as much as anything for 2 reasons a) I liked the landing light reflection , and b) the "mist" from the airflow from the running engine was kinda cool. The downside was the position of the wheel in the light reflection …. So here are 3 others. Each is a slightly different perspective/time and I would be very much interested in others perceptions. I really enjoy the technical aspects of trying to make a screenshot as good as I can and all are always straight from the "V" key, but having said that I have the reputation for "ole fumble fingers" in our household for good reason. Taking good screenshots is both an art and a science and I am always learning and appreciate the opportunity to continue to learn more from feedback. Thank you I sincerely appreciate your analysis And now to a few other screenshots ….. Cheers & thanks! Pete Alternative 1 Alternative 2 (landing light reflection isn't quite right) Alternative 3 (no landing light reflection) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Nice screens, but I prefer the last Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy1252 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 hour ago, renault said: So here are 3 others. Each is a slightly different perspective/time and I would be very much interested in others perceptions Hi again Pete, Interesting. I think both the middle of the new three and the original give the best light tone for the 'plane for me. Problem for me now is I'm obsessing about shadows! I can see plenty of shade, but not a shadow anywhere. And I don't know whether or not I should expect to see any, but all four pics feel like they're missing something. So I think I'm going to have to go there later today if I get time and experiment for myself. It's become one of those things that I'm suddenly unsure of, in my own head (shade vs shadows, that is). So, thanks for adding to my workload for the day! (<grin>) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dario Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 That's lovely, Pete! For photographers, the most incredible light is achieved 30 minutes before sunset/sunrise and 30 minutes after sunset/sunrise. They are called Golden Hour and Blue Hour. XP11 is so real that this magic is very well represented in the sim - and I also enjoy taking pics at these moments. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifejogger Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Excellent shot, you are a screenshot artest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renault Posted September 24, 2019 Author Share Posted September 24, 2019 5 hours ago, andy1252 said: Hi again Pete, Interesting. I think both the middle of the new three and the original give the best light tone for the 'plane for me. Problem for me now is I'm obsessing about shadows! I can see plenty of shade, but not a shadow anywhere. And I don't know whether or not I should expect to see any, but all four pics feel like they're missing something. So I think I'm going to have to go there later today if I get time and experiment for myself. It's become one of those things that I'm suddenly unsure of, in my own head (shade vs shadows, that is). So, thanks for adding to my workload for the day! (<grin>) 4 hours ago, Dario said: That's lovely, Pete! For photographers, the most incredible light is achieved 30 minutes before sunset/sunrise and 30 minutes after sunset/sunrise. They are called Golden Hour and Blue Hour. XP11 is so real that this magic is very well represented in the sim - and I also enjoy taking pics at these moments. Cheers! Hi again Andy Now I understand what you are getting at. In very early morning light or very late light, shadows are very long and it is very difficult to determine what is a shadow vs what is just overall shade. As the sun rises higher above the horizon shadows become shorter and they are much more readily apparent. Here are some additional screenshots to illustrate what I mean Cheers Pete Very early morning. Objects draw shadows on scenery On. I have not shown one with them off because the screenshot is identical Now a bit later in the morning with the sun higher on the horizon ... First of all draw shadows on scenery toggled off (there's a data ref for it , so it is instantaneous ). Now with draw shadows on scenery toggle on. Look in the area where the yellow baggage handling cart is & also compare this area with the very early morning screenshot (this area is completely in shade at this time). And lastly a few minutes later and the yellow cart is now almost in a much deeper shade. Also look to the right of the "3" on the building & also to the right of the large light (left of the #3 sign). These shadows are now deeper than the previous screenshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy1252 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Hi Pete, thanks for the extra shots. I get what you're saying, no problem. But I still feel, and I wonder if it's just the rendering in the sim, that in a couple of the original shots the sun was so low to the horizon (and yet still obviously casting an unhindered light) that it should have had an effect on the aircraft's wheels/undercarriage. Maybe not a recognizable shadow (i.e. darkness in the shape of the wheel) but definitely a patch of shade (i.e. the ground should be showing darker to the side of the wheel furthest from the sun). Again, not in any way any kind of criticism of your shot or setup, but it brought up a visual situation that I hadn't really noticed in other circumstances, so now I'm intrigued. It may well be that the same effect is true in RL, but frankly I'm not that interested that I'm going to get up before dawn to do any research, or it may be that the sim doesn't handle that particular angle of sunlight correctly. I will play with this myself at some point. Meantime - ain't this fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renault Posted September 24, 2019 Author Share Posted September 24, 2019 Hi Andy Probably any further discussion if warranted - please just PM me . I get up at 6 am every day for medical reasons and today was no exception. It was a gorgeous beginning to the day, so I had a chance to observe what I had commented to you . Pre sunrise, shadows are very long and general illumination is low - could be described as very shady. Shadows were extremely difficult to see. As the sun rose, it was much easier to see the beginning of shadows and as the sun continued to rise the shadows became shorter , easier to see and general illumination increased. Generally speaking in line with what my last few screenshots were showing. I've always found that when I don't understand another perspective what works well for me is to ask what is the basis for the others perspective . Tell me more please. So I mentally did this.... It was then that I realized that what is missing in the screenshots and what you were wondering about is the following. In RL what we see is a function of how the light enters our eyes. Not rocket science of course, but light comes from a variety of sources - some reflected, some refracted, some reduced and some blocked (shadows) etc and also a lot of the time from sources that are outside our field of view. And that is what real time ray tracing is about and what is the missing component of discussion. I attach a video link by Nvidia that I think is a first rate explanation of the ray tracing technology. PBR materials are essential for ray tracing and Orbx has done a superb job in implementing their use in scenery applications. However, XPlane knows nothing about light sources that are outside of the rendered frame that we are viewing. So in all the screenshots if the lighting source is in the frame (airport lights, the sun in the last 2 screenshots etc) then the PBR material really "shines" (sorry I couldn't resist) but if it is outside of the frame , such as the first early pre dawn screenshots there is nothing special about the lighting and it is just general illumination , abeit at a low level. What we really need to see the very long shadows in such a lighting environment is to be able to trace the light rays from the external source , and where they are blocked , such as the wheels and undercarriage there should be shadows. But in this case the "real" lighting source is outside the frame so no shadows (even if they were very weak). If the lighting source is "in frame" then great shadows. I have really appreciated your questions and the resulting discussions. It has been fascinating (at least for moi ) Cheers Pete PS and you're right it is fun!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFnWy0Odsh8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy1252 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 15 minutes ago, renault said: What we really need to see the very long shadows in such a lighting environment is to be able to trace the light rays from the external source , and where they are blocked , such as the wheels and undercarriage there should be shadows. But in this case the "real" lighting source is outside the frame so no shadows (even if they were very weak). If the lighting source is "in frame" then great shadows. Thanks Pete - that pretty much wraps it up for me. I felt there should be some shadow effect visible, even if quite indistinct, and this explains it. And I figured if anyone was going to know (or work it out), it would be you. And yes, it's been fascinating for me too. I don't have your skills and experience with all the tech involved with the light manipulation effects, and am basically too much of a butterfly to take the time to get involved with it, but I follow your various posts on the matter with great interest. I hope whatever your medical reasons for such insane hours (to my owlish way of thinking) are, they are not too onerous or cause you any great grief, and yes, this has been a fascinating thread for me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renault Posted September 24, 2019 Author Share Posted September 24, 2019 You're very welcome. It was fun No I just have to take something at a very regular schedule and after doing it for so many years its just the way it is for me. No worries. Cheers Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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