active TE GB South P3D v4 Stuttering/slowing performance issue

[awf]

1 hour ago, FireRx said:

FPS is fine, it just stutters so badly it makes me angry that I can't figure out what going wrong.  this is on P3D default settings too. I'm  wondering if it a UK 2000 scenery causing an issue. Did any of the Beta testers test this with UK 2000 EGLL, and EGLC installed?

 

Exactly have great FPS but stutters and long frames something really wrong here... So installed the XP counterpart for testing and that is night and day very smooth performance 

[pmb]

3 minutes ago, awf said:

 

Exactly have great FPS but stutters and long frames something really wrong here... So installed the XP counterpart for testing and that is night and day very smooth performance 

Did you try ALL shadows off? That made the difference to me.

 

Kind regards, Michael

[Dreamsofwings1]

All this is making sense in terms of what I have seen having optimised as much as I can.....ok for a while....blurries for a short moment, then not too bad for a while again.

[flying_fish]

As in my signature, Kevin it's a Intel Core i7-7700K Kaby Lake CPU,  4.2 - 4.5GHz overclocked by Chillblast to 4.6.

I have no weather, flying the JF 152, Chaseplane an Track IR (neither of which have any difference when disabled).

 

[kevinfirth]

4 minutes ago, flying_fish said:

As in my signature, Kevin it's a Intel Core i7-7700K Kaby Lake CPU,  4.2 - 4.5GHz overclocked by Chillblast to 4.6.

I have no weather, flying the JF 152, Chaseplane an Track IR (neither of which have any difference when disabled).

 

Thanks I cant see sigs on mobile :p. I assume HT is on? what AM are you using please? And which GPU & settings?

[FireRx]

okay, Finally got the Stutters resolved using Micheal's solution of turning off the shaders in P3D menu. now to deal with the blurries.

[flying_fish]

On 2/9/2019 at 12:48 PM, Nick Cooper said:

However hard I try, I cannot make the photo scenery ground textures blur, I have not been

able to do this except by ridiculous amounts of Y key use since P3D v4.4.

 

I don't try to fly resource hungry aircraft at high speed over scenery like this.

It simply won't work however powerful the PC is and rather defeats the whole purpose

of developing it.

 

For me, the V number is the most accurate measure of how well the PC is managing the

scenery, 0% being the ideal.

I keep going back to this from Nick - I've just flown from the south coast to Gloucester with a V of 0.1%, almost constant 20%, with all the settings and advice as we've been discussing. I get blurries very few minutes. If it works for Nick there must be a simple solution!

[flying_fish]

11 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

I assume HT is on? what AM are you using please? And which GPU & settings?

HT on I expect, have never disabled it. GForce GTX 1070 settings as in the thread above. AM? It's PM here...

[kevinfirth]

Just now, flying_fish said:

HT on I expect, have never disabled it. GForce GTX 1070 settings as in the thread above. AM? It's PM here...

affinity mask

[flying_fish]

4 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

affinity mask

Ah ha - none set (I'm not my best in the AM).

[FireRx]

hmmm I thought the whole point of being x64bit P3D was to never have to set affinity mask again in the config.

[bruce e]

4 hours ago, flying_fish said:

Understood, thanks both. Is that why I'm seeing such high CPU demands (all 7 cores at 100%) every few minutes as ground textures 'decompress'?

Pretty much the same here until it reaches a stage where the textures remain blurred.

It seems that my i7 3770 CPU 3.5Ghz & GTX 1060 cannot cope at present.

I'll keep watching this space but something it seriously wrong so I'm deselecting TE GB P3D & going back to FTX Eng in the hope that an update will be on the way soon

Thanks for all the helpful suggestion 

[kevinfirth]

Try using the internal frame limiter and turn down some settings...

[bruce e]

On 2/9/2019 at 5:58 PM, Capt Pugwash said:

 

 

 

Hi Kevin     See my post #74 frames limited to 22 & all turned down

 

[Capt Pugwash]

44 minutes ago, bruce e said:

 

Hi Kevin     See my post #74 frames limited to 22 & all turned down

 

In all honesty... I also have great fps...but it is all erratic and unstable and I grow tired of tweaking again and again (thought those days had ended!) ...I have had P3D crash repeatedly due to only having 16gb ram and not 32! after 40 mins flying on a moderate high end system...I have disabled TEGB until P3D catches up with it...X-Plane here I come for my Orbx UK True Earth vfr fix 

PS: just gone on Battlefield V in 4k maxed out settings to relieve ‘the tweaking P3D tension’ all was perfect....boom!!!

[mike24]

I have a reasonable pc running all sorts off scenerys over the years flly tampa fs dreamteam vfr scenery even orbx true earth netherlands but sadly i have a slideshow with true earth gb 

down to 5fps  in london in certain directions birmingham the same very disapointing 

im afraid im going to ask for money back because their is no option to turn the city detail down

just feelslike im going back to fsx days with all the stutters etc 

even thou i flew around cardiff at dusk wow really enjoyed it with good framerates but for me performance is everything

[Colin David Hodds]

Well for me scenary complexity is the magic slider pretty much anything else makes little difference and TE can really handle large amounts of autogen well. To be honest I see little difference visually with complexity low . What am I missing.

Now to my biggest annoyance the refinery in Southampton looked great in ftx England not half as good in TE anyone know the scenary file I can try mergeing it.

 

 

[flying_fish]

Well this has been a long thread, and I sense that we have got as far as we can.... it's erking me that no one (including devs or Beta testers) can point us to the reason we are struggling here.

I'll leave it at that, and sadly TEGB is going on the bench for now.

 

[Colin David Hodds]

perservere it is growing on me a lot.

[Benny]

29 minutes ago, flying_fish said:

I'll leave it at that, and sadly TEGB is going on the bench for now

 

I think that there is so many other nice places then London or Birmingham. I can't believe that the DEV or Beta tester didn't have a hard time there and I am sure that they don't all have I9 with 2080 GPU and 32 of RAM. We have to be patient I guess ORBX can do something about those 2 area.

 

I don't know why but with the R66 I was even able to film downtown London, eve better at night. Also my loading time from zero is about 3 to 4 minutes??? (all on the same SSD)

 

In dense area the only way I can fly and film is by lowering the Mesh resolution to 5 or a bit lower.

 

To be honest, Aerofly FS2 can handle Photo Real like if it was Land-class even on older rig. They have something in their graphic engine that surpass from far all other sim platform.

Maybe LM should ask them what is their trick

 

Cheers, Ben

[FireRx]

again, how do you turn it off without having to uninstall it?

Nevermind, I figured it out

 

[awf]

Well at this point for P3Dv4.4 it's in the recycle bin (petty because it's my main sim platform)

and XP counter part will do it for now great performance there...

FPS great and razor sharp textures, but those stutters and long frame rates tells me there is something wrong,

For the record TENL is great performance with FT EHAM, which my home base...

But then again we have a control panel to tune performance ;-)

 

[BrianV]

I wonder if FTX England should preferably be deactivated while using the new GB South. Has anyone tried to see if this affects the fps? I use an 980 GTX and unless a lot of the eye candy is off (such as all shadows) it seems very difficult to maintain high texture quality throughout a flight. Perhaps the forthcoming P3D 4.5 will help, I hope, unless there are other ways to optimize the software. My i7 4GHz computer is 4 years old, but I still hope it can do a year or two more before getting a more powerful computer. 

[FireRx]

do you deactivate the EU_ IN's too? to turn it off for now?

 

[pmb]

1 hour ago, flying_fish said:

Well this has been a long thread, and I sense that we have got as far as we can.... it's erking me that no one (including devs or Beta testers) can point us to the reason we are struggling here.

 

 

That's not entirely correct, Andy. At least John Dow and Nick Cooper have been beta testers and have tried to give a hand here as best as they could.

 

This said, I am still perplexed that the beta testers did not foresee the amount of issues not only single users (as always) but a considerable number are facing, including some I would call well-educated in the field. There may be a set of users who are just happy and don't write in the forum. But there is for sure another set who just uninstalled it and left the scene silently.

 

And btw. did anyone read a note from the lead developer yet?

 

Kind regards, Michael

[flying_fish]

13 minutes ago, pmb said:

as best as they could

Disagree; it's entirely correct.

I'd be the first to agree that this forum is an outstanding source of support; none better. Wouldn't dream of criticizing the guys who have spent months developing this for us.

It's Sunday, and I don't expect support staff to be responding today. However if anyone (devs or beta testers or 'happy users') can tell us what settings to use to get rid of the blurries I'll be a happy man.

 

[Benny]

16 minutes ago, flying_fish said:

However if anyone (devs or beta testers or 'happy users') can tell us what settings to use to get rid of the blurries I'll be a happy man.

 

Blurries? My English speller doesn't like that word

Do you mean that the scenery is not sharp? Or slow to load? Or not loading?

 

In my case if I look far away ahead it's not sharp but tat is the case of almost each scenery, I mean it's a P3D-FSX thing?

[andy1252]

11 hours ago, pmb said:

Autogen + Scenery Draw Distance Medium, all Shadows off, and fps set to 20, I can fly over London in a C172 with continually  20fps and nearly no stutters. Includes Simwings EGLL and UK2000 EGLC. Most other settings maxed or close to. 

 

With Autogen + Scenery Draw Distance High it was unusable.  The modified setting nearly doubles fps for me. Plus, it doesn't look actually bad as with the Medium setting autogen fades in softly, while it tends to pop in otherweise.  That's on my system yours may differ, of course. 

 

Ah! after trying various things as per this and another thread, I'm finally getting a workable solution while still keeping my 4k display running at full res, and this is what's done it for me, too.

 

So, thank you Michael, and all the others chipping in to these threads. I've still got some playing to do, and the solution is not perfect, but it looks like I may be able to use this after all - I was seriously on the point of dismissing the P3D version in favour of XP. I still prefer the XP version, but now it looks like I may be able to dip in here and check it out more fully. When I've finally settled it down I'll post up the settings I've settled on, in case they're of use to anyone else.

 

[bruce e]

2 hours ago, Benny said:

 

Blurries? My English speller doesn't like that word

Do you mean that the scenery is not sharp? Or slow to load? Or not loading?

 

In my case if I look far away ahead it's not sharp but tat is the case of almost each scenery, I mean it's a P3D-FSX thing?

Simply put immediate scenery (below & within 5 miles) is "in focus" as you take off but after a few minutes it goes "out of focus"  See post #77

[Benny]

Hey guys, I just finished editing my video on TE GBS... 11 hours of flying (product PAID big time), 84 video take, I have used 37 of those 84 take for a 4.5 minute video.

It took me about 2.5 hours to edit this one... I wasn't sure of the finale thing but my girlfriend after watching it gave me a thumb up No words with just a smile.

 

But I can't upload it from home, 2 GB it to much for my moderate internet connection.

 

Even if TE GBS can be a bit hard on some of us (computer wise) we need to appreciate the IMMENSE work involve in such a product, the video I made is to honor those who have work real hard.

 

I will upload it tomorrow morning at work.

 

You all have a good night... or good day

 

Ben

[Benny]

6 minutes ago, bruce e said:

Simply put immediate scenery (below & within 5 miles) is "in focus" as you take off but after a few minutes it goes "out of focus"

 

I don't have that problem at all????

 

Bottle necking between CPU and GPU??? 

 

Ben

[bruce e]

Whats your PC specs?

[Delly]

The other discussion got shutdown so I am posting my analysis here. @pmb

 

The following shots over london represent Scenery Complexity only changing

 

1. SPARSE (smooth)

2. NORMAL (stutters)

3. DENSE (stutters)

4. VERY DENSE (stutters)

 

To my eye NORMAL = DENSE = VERY DENSE

 

Is there any way to tone down NORMAL so it is in between VERY DENSE and SPARSE?

 

Maybe I dont understand how the complexity works but it seems odd that NORMAL = VERY DENSE? Perhaps this is why everyone is struggling to get smooth performance. A lot of London is NOT autogen but actual scenery.

 

[flying_fish]

Just seen this from JV is a separate (now closed) thread;

"Give me an hour with your £4000 Uber PC and I can get P3D working as smooth as butter, with no freezes and no stutters. Most of the improvements will come from outside the P3D environment, and your prepar3d.cfg file will be deleted and rebuilt with zero tweaks.

 

I suspect a lot of the issues being listed in this and other topics are basically poorly optimised Windows 10 environments and over-optimistic sliders in P3D".

 

Really shocked by this, John. I've tested the settings posted by Nick - I still get blurred ground terrain. Let's take the heat out of this and post the settings that Beta testers have used to get TEGB running without blurred textures on reasonably speced PC's like mine. We all want this to work!

 

[pmb]

1 hour ago, Benny said:

Hey guys, I just finished editing my video on TE GBS... 11 hours of flying (product PAID big time), 84 video take, I have used 37 of those 84 take for a 4.5 minute video.

It took me about 2.5 hours to edit this one... I wasn't sure of the finale thing but my girlfriend after watching it gave me a thumb up No words with just a smile.

 

But I can't upload it from home, 2 GB it to much for my moderate internet connection.

 

Even if TE GBS can be a bit hard on some of us (computer wise) we need to appreciate the IMMENSE work involve in such a product, the video I made is to honor those who have work real hard.

 

I will upload it tomorrow morning at work.

 

You all have a good night... or good day

 

Ben

Ben, I see you and Nick are pretty much the only ones getting sharp textures, but it proves it can be done. I suppose this applies to the other beta testers as well. So we have to isolate what's different to our machines. 

 

I don't think it's normal settings like LOD or autogen density. I (and others) went though those to no avail. Usually, blurries are caused by the CPU, not GPU, thus to my best knowledge you can't cure them lowering AA or shadows or such.

 

The usual suspects for blurries, aside completely impotent machines, as far as I know them are

(i) Wrong or missing Affinity Mask

(ii) Hyperthreading on/off

(iii) Too low process priority.

 

However, this applies to "normal" blurries, i.e. those incured e.g. by flying too fast so the machine can't catch up. Usually those will disappear after pausing the machine for a couple of seconds. This does not apply to the blurry terrain I see in TE GB, though.

 

For what it's worth, I have HT on, no Affinity Mask and prepar3d.exe Process Priority set to high. I tried HT off which tends to make scenery still a bit more blurry (but this may be machine-dependent). I don't use an Affinity Mask, at present. I did experiment with several AM values time ago to only find all proposed AMs inducing more blurries or stuttering on my system. This might be a point for experimenting, but given a loading time of still 8 min it's not real fun. Finally, lowering Process Priority to normal does not clear the textures, which was to be expected.

 

Several people around here have given details on their machines. It would be most helpful if you and Nick could at least keep an eye on them to perhaps identify which setting or parameter might be the critical one to clear up the ground.

 

Thanks and kind regards, Michael

[Delly]

Both of you @flying_fish @pmb can you try Scenery Complexity = SPARSE and Level Of Detail Radius MEDIUM

 

It smoothed things out for me.  It looks like for some reason they only defined 2 levels of scenery complexity. SPARSE and EXTREMELY DENSE. So Normal is totally unmanagable as its the same as EXTREMELY DENSE! 

 

When I changed this I was able to up my Autogen from SPARSE to DENSE but still with Medium draw distance. I can now fly in a 152 across London locked at 30FPS. It dips every now and then but its a lot better.

 

They really need to add a proper set of scenery complexity slider configs, or even a custom control panel in FTX Central. 

[FireRx]

Finally after a few days of Tweaking I did my first 1 1/2 flight around London area taking in all the sights at 27-36 FPS and no stutter.  My last tweak that worked.  Setting the texture in P3D to 1024 X 1024 fixed the Stutter issue.  everything looks nice. except the roads .eew. LOL

 

[flying_fish]

Are we seriously expecting simmers to go to these levels to get the package to work - come on guys, it needs to work of of the box, - come clean.

[Benny]

1 hour ago, flying_fish said:

Are we seriously expecting simmers to go to these levels to get the package to work - come on guys, it needs to work of of the box, - come clean.

 

I agree, not sure what to say Andy, I am no computer wiz, since day one I was afraid to install and use  TE GB S because of all the stuff I have read.

 

My rig is not old, just built it a few months ago... not  an I9 but a good balance.

 

My video will shock some people that are having trouble.... because I have none,  so I am not sure now if I should put it online

 

It's pretty flawless and smooth

 

You guys tell me what should I do

 

Cheers my friends

 

Great exchange and thread by the way, your are all amazing, this thread staid cool and polite with plenty of suberb information. Let's keep it that way for the sake of our hobby

 

Ben

[Chris.D]

I see you have all tried just about everything other than checking your hardware.

I used to edit 2/3 hour movies on this current setup, see my signature,  The recommended requirements of the software was 48gb RAM with 24 gb minimum.

My x58 motherboard will only support 24gb so that's what I have.

My rendering of the movie would start off ok at a good speed then slow right down. When I looked in the Control Panel --> System it showed 24 gb installed / 7.99 gb  usable. 

Long story short.

I got a tool, I think from Sysinternals that monitored RAM in real time and tried the rendering of a movie again and found after about 10 or 15 minutes the system shed 16GB RAM.

This turned out to be a weak memory controller in my i7 980 Extreme, some batches were that way.

The fix was to increase the voltage on the controller by +200mv off set, and to reduce the memory recycle refresh time from 125 to 90 and increase the voltage on the RAM by +100 mv.

That fixed my problem and I always show 24gb installed and 24 gb usable.

I said "Long story short", in fact it took me months to fix with a great loss of hair.

Now, this may not help here, but it would not do any harm to check. After all, you are really pushing your systems to the limit so far as I gather and no one solution has fixed the problem.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Chris.