Rob Newman Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Hi all... For those out there who have been wondering and asking about the compatibility of UK2000 airport sceneries with the upcoming FTX England, here is a little information and some comparison shots so you can see for yourself Firstly, let me just make a few points. These have all been raised before, but as this post is specific to the issue, it's worth repeating... 1. UK2000 airports will work and be visible in FTX England provided the UK2000 scenery entry is above the FTX ENG region in your scenery library. You can ensure this is always the case by using the FTX Central application to set the FTX entry points below UK2000. 2. UK2000 airports were designed to be seamless with the UK photographic scenery. As such, they use slightly different elevation data. UK2000 airports also use a standard flat surface over one level which can lead to cliffs and ridges surrounding the airports (especially in hilly areas). FTX "default" airports use a special graded flatten system that blends the flat airports into surrounding terrain. Edit: I was mistaken about the different elevation of the UK2000 airports... They use the same elevation as the FTX ENG airports. The difference lies in the methods used to blend the "platform" the airport is forced to sit on (due the the FSX "flat airport" limitation) and the surrounding tarrain in order to avoid cliffs and cuttings. UK2000 tends to have more noticeable edges to the airports... See the small ridges just off the approach end of Brize Norton's runway. 3. Similarly, UK2000 airport colour palettes were also designed to work seamlessly with the photographic scenery. FTX Eng uses a more vibrant, arguably better looking palette so UK2000 airports can appear a little washed out. This can be avoided by using the UK2000 control panel option of "No Background Image", but then you will lose some of the photographic elements of the UK2000 scenery (including some runways and taxiways). 4. FTX England will ship with complete coverage of UK airports, all of which have been "Orbified" and enhanced well beyond the current FSX default. The screenshots of the FTX airports below however are from part way through the development process... Neil Hill, our airport guru, has recently completed a final pass of all airports to add a little further enhancement to each one... Below you will see for yourself the differences between the FTX airports vs UK2000. At the end of the day, the choice is yours! (It's good to have choices ) EDIT: I won't be changing the pictures here, but as has been pointed out, I made a mistake naming these shots... The above airport is indeed BRIZE NORTON (EGVN), not BOSCOMBE DOWN (EGDM). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockliffe Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Interesting, thanks for taking the time to show us those comparisons Rob. Very much appreciated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lincoln Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I am very interested in the London City Airport comparison,but thanks for the shots so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdavart Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Those must be from the UK2000 VFR series? I bet the Xtreme stuff will look even better. Am encouraged by the look of FTX fall colors, so much better than the default. More!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Hamilton Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Extreme or not, I see nothing wrong with the way the UK sceneries mix with ORBX. Gives me an excuse to buy the ones I'm missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyxx Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Think you just made there VFR part 1/2/3 a must buy to go with Orbx UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Sorry. Not impressed. The division between the two sceneries is two marked and I'm certainly not impressed with the road running throught the housing estate! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilotsparky Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Rob Your EGDM is not the right airport. EGDM is Boscombe Down and this picture is of Brize Norton EGVN. I would concur with some of the comments above about the FTX airfields. I think I would rather stick with Gary Summons UK2000. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britfrog Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 yeah from what I have seen so far i will stick with uk2000 and generation X but will probably buy the ftx goodwood but not southampton as the uk2000 version is as good as i need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmatron Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 yeah from what I have seen so far i will stick with uk2000 and generation X but will probably buy the ftx goodwood but not southampton as the uk2000 version is as good as i need I think you will find that FTX Goodwood will require FTX England and as such wont work with the Gen X photo scenery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinamuab Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Sorry. Not impressed. The division between the two sceneries is two marked and I'm certainly not impressed with the road running throught the housing estate! John With landclass based scenery, this is unavoidable. Perhaps you should be impressed with the fact that those roads line up perfectly with the PR scenery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
member111333 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Very cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnG Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I'm not sure the intention of the posts was to impress anyone, ORBX is making their product on their own. I think it's just to show and answer the question of what it will be like where the two addons meet. to be honest there are drawbacks either way, but I don't think the combination of UK2000 and ORBX looks bad at all, I was expecting the transition to be more jarring, and if UK2000 patches the color palette, so much the better. I am far from the grammar police as well, but I would say if you're just popping in to take a swipe at someone's work, you might want to say "too marked" instead of "two marked". Irony being what it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Venema Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Just to clarify, FTX England is a landclass region product, not an airport product. When we began developing our FTX series back in 2007 and released Australia, we never ever touched the default FSX airports, and we sold each region for about 30% more than we do now. However, now we spend literally several thousand paid contractor hours per region to match each airport to accurate layouts based on aerial imagery, add buildings, vehicles, static aircraft, even PeopleFlow2 and grass etc. It means that a customer who purchases FTX England can enjoy the entire region with very accurate facsimiles of all the FSX airports to land into. All this for about £26, which is stupidly cheap and also means our regions tend to not be profitable for us until about 2.5 years after release. So please keep that in mind if you are sending some vibes our way that our airports don't compete with purpose built photoreal products. We do intend to release many UK HD photoreal airports for which our team is famous for, and indeed some of those may compete with existing products already on the market, because we build to our own standard that our customers have come to expect from Orbx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Hey John, Seeing as I start my Christmas flight from Greenwich each year; can I have a new sleigh for this years flight back to Australia? The pennies are being saved in anticipation for ORBX UK. Go forth and conquer the market.. you deserve to! Cheers Hank. (Santa in disguise) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyxx Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 So please keep that in mind if you are sending some vibes our way that our airports don't compete with purpose built photoreal products.I think what we see are the two products work side by side and complement each other. Personally I think the perfect combination would be your airports with people flow etc and just use there VRF photorealism underneath. Because your airports e.g like in NZ North etc are great, but just lack that lovely photo real base like the above SS show and add so much. That might even be a thought for you to see if possible to incorporate in the future? £26? That is cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Ah, that's better JV. Glad you cleared that up. I wrongly got the impression that airports were not being included. So people won't need to use UK2000, or any other addon airports, which is good because obviously Orbx airports are going to blend in and fit FTX scenery better than anyone else's. Actually,with the possible exception of Darren's ES and Tony M's Arm Computers, I prefer Orbx airports better than any others that are available in the UK. They are full of interest and very realistic. As for pricing, apart from freeware, nothing can compete with Orbx. John John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca22au Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I realise I shouldn't invite you to raise prices, but 26GBP is ridiculously cheap. I know that you have to compete with other scenery makers, but a carefully raised price would be acceptable to your now very large consumer group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyxx Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I prefer Orbx airports better than any others that are available in the UK. They are full of interest and very realistic. Your talking about Goodwood I take it? @Ian SShhhhhhhhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lateagain Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I think what we see are the two products work side by side and complement each other. Exactly my feelings too. I bought all 3 UK2000 VFR airport regions (available as an offer on their web site) in anticipation of FTX England. Three points to consider IMO: 1) The recent FTX scenery add-ons have all had pretty reasonable airfields so nobody NEEDS to buy anything other than the FTX if they don't want to. 2) UK2000 don't cover EVERY VFR field anyway and when you install them you can decide to deselect any field you have a copy of from another publisher. Your choice and your control. 3) We all know that the FTX fields contain more detail than the UK2000 fields but they aren't going to be able to release anywhere near as many as are contained already in the UK2000 package straight away. When FTX release a better version of any field that I want to use I'll merely substitute that for the UK2000 one I've already got. Jet jockeys will probably like the UK2000 extreme airports and seeing how well (IMO) the VFR fields work with FTX they are a no-brainer until (if - they already get great reviews) someone comes up with a better version. Like FTX, UK2000's stuff all scores well in the frame rate hit department. Nobody HAS to buy any of it but thanks to Rob's post we can now judge for ourselves. BTW you can download demo and reduced feature versions of a lot of UK2000's stuff to try before you buy. Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamJSS Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I have a request. Would it be possible to amend this post with shots of also the same areas but just pure Orbx? As to see some real comparisons? As a person who is planning on making my first purchase of an addon in Europe and only owns US and AU/NZ areas, I would love to be able to see all three. Pure Orbx of the area, Orbx and UK2000 of the area and UK2000 of the area. I am sure my choice will be PURE Orbx, but I am not even a novice when it comes to this discussion of these two addons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Hamilton Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 If any of the team uses UK2000 Extreme sceneries, could we also see shots of those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyxx Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I have a request. Would it be possible to amend this post with shots of also the same areas but just pure Orbx? As to see some real comparisons? The top SS is just that, read it in top left corner. What you ask for is just how the 3 are Worth noting if your new to FTX is the FTX airports will have people flow and be more alive than say the 3rd SS, so we all have the choice to how we want them, all 10x better than the normal Fsx UK airports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamJSS Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 The top SS is just that, read it in top left corner. What you ask for is just how the 3 are Worth noting if your new to FTX is the FTX airports will have people flow and be more alive than say the 3rd SS, so we all have the choice to how we want them, all 10x better than the normal Fsx UK airports. Ahh. I see now. Sorry about that. I think just the massive color change around the airport threw me off and I thought it was non Orbx. Is work being done to blend that a little better? As it looks kinda like the airport want pasted over an area and the gass is no where near close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Newman Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 I have a request. Would it be possible to amend this post with shots of also the same areas but just pure Orbx? As to see some real comparisons? As a person who is planning on making my first purchase of an addon in Europe and only owns US and AU/NZ areas, I would love to be able to see all three. Pure Orbx of the area, Orbx and UK2000 of the area and UK2000 of the area. I am sure my choice will be PURE Orbx, but I am not even a novice when it comes to this discussion of these two addons. Actually, the first shots (those labelled as "FTX ENG Version") are pure ORBX... ORBX is the company name, but FTX ENG is the product name. Basically, the FTX ENG coverage area has had all the airports upgraded and these upgraded airports come as part of FTX ENG coverage. It's not a separate package as I think some people are taking from this. To clarify, FTX ENG includes all of England (countryside, towns, cities, points of interest, coastlines, roads, rail networks etc) just like all the other ORBX scenery areas, compiled to a very high accuracy and standard PLUS it also includes all the English airports within the coverage area upgraded as you see on the screenshots I'm no sales person, but darn good value from my perspective! But, for those of you who like/want to use UK2000, you can do that too... It's horses for courses... We're giving you the choices, up to you to make them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamJSS Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Thanks for the kind explanation. I was obviously a little confused. Lol Your scenery is the best, and stays that way, and my wallet votes likewise. Can't wait for the release, but previews like we have been given so far make the wait easy to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Hill Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Hi all, I'll throw in my 2 bits. All airports are done using a GE background in the revising process hence the airport background grass shows the "real life" airport outline (plus provides airports that are highly accurate, you PR only guys take note). The land class terrain is put on by a separate team and overall are not concerned where the airports are. I then go back over the airports and clean up any glaring LC differences to try to make them look as much as possible like they actually belong there. If you find background grass that kind of "sticks out" rest assured that it is accurate all the same. Cheers, Neil (the ENG airport guy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosta Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I'm looking forward to this! EGLL/EGKK are one of my main hubs and this will certainly make England look way better than it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madaboutsims Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Humberside to Duxford and Humberside to Ellough and North Coates to Elloughand, and and, are going to be regular flights for me. Cannot wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy10uk Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Mmmmm, I really don't know what to make of these screenshots, Don't get me wrong i am really looking forward to this product, but the 1st screenshot which I understand is the Orbx England addon, to me just looks like a cut and paste slapped on top of photo scenery, it dosnt blend in at all. Not sure what the airfield looks like from that angle in real life, but Does it really look like that. Certainly the UK2000 VFR airport with background seems to blend in the best, which I'm happy with, considering I've been flying with the VFR package for years. But please please can u confirm that the orbx airfields won't look this bad. Taxiways etc are fine, it's just the blending that is troubling me. Still can't wait for this product though. Cowboy10uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockliffe Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Mmmmm, I really don't know what to make of these screenshots, Don't get me wrong i am really looking forward to this product, but the 1st screenshot which I understand is the Orbx England addon, to me just looks like a cut and paste slapped on top of photo scenery, it dosnt blend in at all. Not sure what the airfield looks like from that angle in real life, but Does it really look like that. Certainly the UK2000 VFR airport with background seems to blend in the best, which I'm happy with, considering I've been flying with the VFR package for years. But please please can u confirm that the orbx airfields won't look this bad. Taxiways etc are fine, it's just the blending that is troubling me. Still can't wait for this product though. Cowboy10uk I agree, it looks bloomin' awful, and not what I'd expect from Orbx. Surely it's some kind of a mistake. I don't remember seeing anything like that in any other sceneries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Hudson Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Mmmmm, I really don't know what to make of these screenshots, Don't get me wrong i am really looking forward to this product, but the 1st screenshot which I understand is the Orbx England addon, to me just looks like a cut and paste slapped on top of photo scenery, it dosnt blend in at all. Not sure what the airfield looks like from that angle in real life, but Does it really look like that. Certainly the UK2000 VFR airport with background seems to blend in the best, which I'm happy with, considering I've been flying with the VFR package for years. But please please can u confirm that the orbx airfields won't look this bad. Taxiways etc are fine, it's just the blending that is troubling me. Still can't wait for this product though. Cowboy10uk I agree, it looks bloomin' awful, and not what I'd expect from Orbx. Surely it's some kind of a mistake. I don't remember seeing anything like that in any other sceneries. Hey Guys!! As this screenshot was taken in an early beta what you are seeing is a summer airport grass texture overlayed on an autumn landclass, The Blend of the grass has been changed to match all 5 seasons being Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter and Hard Winter. What you are seeing isnt the Blend in the final Product. Please be aware that these are BETA screenshots and not the final product. The UK2000 comparison was purely shown for the people wanting to know if there previous buys would work with our scenery. Whether the PR on the UK 2000 products match our landclass or not is not in our best interest as we are a completely Different product. Thanks, Sam. A Better Idea of the Final Product Blending Spring: Summer: Autumn: Winter: Hard Winter: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Golding Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Hi all, I'll throw in my 2 bits. All airports are done using a GE background in the revising process hence the airport background grass shows the "real life" airport outline (plus provides airports that are highly accurate, you PR only guys take note). The land class terrain is put on by a separate team and overall are not concerned where the airports are. I then go back over the airports and clean up any glaring LC differences to try to make them look as much as possible like they actually belong there. If you find background grass that kind of "sticks out" rest assured that it is accurate all the same. Cheers, Neil (the ENG airport guy) Hi Neil, I don't think it's the shape of the airport grass that's being questioned, but the colouring. Just a quick look on Google Earth shows both the accuracy of the airport shape at EGVN as well as the inaccuracy of the grass colouring and this really does stand out in the screenshots above. That said, the Google Earth image is obviously not based on the current season, and in a way, the FSX screenshot does kind of correctly show plenty of brown farmland contrasting with very green airport grass.....and my lawn is certainly very green just now. So maybe the screenshots are simply exagerating the difference between lush grassland and brown, freshly ploughed, farmland? It would be nice to see similar shots in a different season to see if the airports will always stand out to the same degree. LOL!! Bad timing from me, and thanks for the post Sam ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Hudson Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Hi Neil, I don't think it's the shape of the airport grass that's being questioned, but the colouring. Just a quick look on Google Earth shows both the accuracy of the airport shape at EGVN as well as the inaccuracy of the grass colouring and this really does stand out in the screenshots above. That said, the Google Earth image is obviously not based on the current season, and in a way, the FSX screenshot does kind of correctly show plenty of brown farmland contrasting with very green airport grass.....and my lawn is certainly very green just now. So maybe the screenshots are simply exagerating the difference between lush grassland and brown, freshly ploughed, farmland? It would be nice to see similar shots in a different season to see if the airports will always stand out to the same degree. LOL!! Bad timing from me, and thanks for the post Sam ) No worries, I hope the added screenies settle any concerns! Please Raise any more issues you guys have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Golding Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 No worries, I hope the added screenies settle any concerns! Please Raise any more issues you guys have! I think we can safely say the screenies have well and truely sorted the issue out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy10uk Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Hey Guys!! As this screenshot was taken in an early beta what you are seeing is a summer airport grass texture overlayed on an autumn landclass, The Blend of the grass has been changed to match all 5 seasons being Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter and Hard Winter. What you are seeing isnt the Blend in the final Product. Please be aware that these are BETA screenshots and not the final product. The UK2000 comparison was purely shown for the people wanting to know if there previous buys would work with our scenery. Whether the PR on the UK 2000 products match our landclass or not is not in our best interest as we are a completely Different product. Thanks, Sam. A Better Idea of the Final Product Blending Spring: Summer: Autumn: Winter:u Hard Winter: Sam, Thankyou very very much, that looks much much much better, and was certainly more like what I was expecting. I knew there must have been a good reason, it's just when you see a screenshot like that. I do have utmost faith in you, which is why I was surprised. This is a def instant buy the moment it is released. Cowboy10uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockliffe Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Nice one Sam, thanks for clarifying things for us, cheers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revenant Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 To me, what's not doing these screenshots any favours is that the colours of the actual runway textures are way too bright and contrasted. Dense black, bright vibrant yellow and stark white - stick out way too much. If these are going to be more muted and 'worn' looking in the final release then I think the blending will look a great deal better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyxx Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Thanks Sam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Newman Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 To me, what's not doing these screenshots any favours is that the colours of the actual runway textures are way too bright and contrasted. Dense black, bright vibrant yellow and stark white - stick out way too much. If these are going to be more muted and 'worn' looking in the final release then I think the blending will look a great deal better. Runways, taxiways, aprons and marking colours are all teh base FSX airport textures. Not custom. There are options to change the yellow markings and ground surface detail within FTX central however. Most of us here (myself included) use REX which replaces the default FSX airport textures with better looking versions... But the colour and tone variations can be quite different even when selecting within one category (i.e. concrete runways). If you use REX, just play around with the different textures to find a combination you like the look of... you can choose from bright markings, old looking markings, craked and worn markings, different shades of concrete/tarmac etc... Everybody is going to want something different. There's also lots of options on the web for replacement airport textures if you don't have REX... some of them freeware. (And yes... I tend to agree the shots I posted had some "odd" looking textures... I was playing about with REX's "weather based textures" which selects the best textures based on conditions - heavy rain when I installed the textures... Just forgot to reset them to my normal when the sun came bac out ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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