Any RTX 3070 users in MSFS SU10 beta?

[Jon Clarke]

I am currently running a 1080Ti it doesn't have the DLSS or Raytrace facility.

Due to tight budgeting I am looking to replace it in order to maximise the SU10 features of DLSS in particular.

 

I would like to get some feedback please from current SU10 beta users who run RTX 3070 GPUs.

Are they good performers in 3840 x2160 (4K) ?

I have a very limited budget and will probably go for a used one as I did for the current 1080Ti.

I can go lower than a 3070 but not higher.

[BradB]

Probably not much help for you Jon , but I run a RTX 3060 in the beta with no issues . DX12 is very smooth on my 32 “

desktop monitor . 
 

Cheers

John

[Jon Clarke]

54 minutes ago, BradB said:

Probably not much help for you Jon , but I run a RTX 3060 in the beta with no issues . DX12 is very smooth on my 32 “

desktop monitor . 
 

Cheers

John

No Brad that is useful info. Do you use DLSS or is it not enabled in beta?

Thanks

[BradB]

1 hour ago, Jon Clarke said:

No Brad that is useful info. Do you use DLSS or is it not enabled in beta?

Thanks

I use.the DLSS in the Beta thru the Steam platform . I have reverted back to SU09 getting ready for SU10 when it pops . 

[Smudger]

6 hours ago, Jon Clarke said:

RTX 3070 GPUs.

John, I am using a Geforce RTX 2070 which is below your required, but all my sims are smooth

[renault]

Hi Jon

 

I hope that the following will give you some insight into how the RTX 3070 ti performs in

SU10 Beta - DX12 DLSS - Quality mode

Resolution 2560 x 1440p

All MS2020 settings - Ultra

LOD - 200

Win 11 Home

Nvidia Driver 516.94

64 GB System Ram

Intel i7 9700K in turbo boost.

 

The 3070 is not that much different than the 3070ti.  The ti  is about 7-10% faster , but uses about 100w more power than the

3070 due to the DDR6X memory it has. The only reason I have it is it replaced my RTX2060 super which died and at the time it was all 

that the computer builder had available.

 

The airport chosen for most of the tests was Brisbane, as for whatever reason it is very, very hard on performance.

I have copied this note to Craigeaglefire  @craigeaglefire as he may be able to provide you with some additional insight

 

The 3070 &  (ti) will have from my experience sufficient processing power , however the concern I have is the available Vram

The memory management now in place in the Beta in my experience works very well at 1440p .  In all the tests I have not run out of 

Vram, but as you can see the total system usage (CPU-z)  is around 7.5 - 7.8 GB.  This is also a reflection of having every setting maximized

for testing.

 

However, from what i have seen, 4K can be a very different beast and I would  defer to your experience with your current card

for Vram usage. Therefore my concern is really the 8GB Vram , more so than the GPU processing power.

 

The following comment may raise some eyebrows from my fellow members.  However, it is borne out by direct comparisons with it on and off  .

 

I only ask that anyone reading it keep an open mind , as my recommendation at this point is only for use in DX12 as it does not work 

the same way in DX11.

 

What I found with DX12 is that switching Hardware Accelerated Graphics System (HAGS) on, allows the GPU to properly control system resources 

As you can see from all the screenshots the CPU load is pretty even on all cores except Core 7.  On my machine core7 is close to full saturation but not quite.  However with HAGS off, Core7 does fully saturate which leads to stuttering at times.

 

Especially at my preferred setting of 30 fps the sim is incredibly fluid and smooth, all cores balance nicely (note on Core7) and the system as overhead to deal with any situation form what I have seen with it enabled.

 

With HAGS off, DX12  is smooth, but there is a noticeable imbalance in Core usage and at times I could see slight stuttering. With HAGS on this has

been eliminated completely.  

 

Also HAGS in DX12 in Win 11 is a different behaviour  than in Win10, where it never worked for me and I had it disabled.

 

So it is what it is as they say.  I only offer it  as setting which I found materially helped system performance and I used

in all of the attached tests.  As near as I could see it gave me about 2 fps more with it on, rather than off  but this was strictly

for testing.

 

For me,  it is never about fps (I am always locked at 30 fps) but about system smoothness and fluid behaviour .  Since I always use all 

settings on Ultra, this gives me the smooth performance and visual fidelity that I like. 

 

This is not using the new Nvidia driver which should be coming with the final release of SU10 . So Hags will be revisited then to see if I

see the same improvement in system usage and smoothness.

 

Personally I have found that DLSS in quality mode gives me better visual fidelity than TAA and with a significant reduction in system resources.

However, one thing to be aware of is that as you change to the other DLSS modes , Quality ==> Balanced ==> Performance ==> Ultra Performance 

you will  notice two things happening.

 

 Resolution stays pretty much the same but you lose both # of unique colors in the image as well as deterioration in 

contrast.  This is because as you go to increasing down sampling to increase performance , the algorithm doesn't have sufficient

unique colour information in the down sampled image to determine how to properly upscale it back to the monitor native resolution

while retaining all the colour information originally contained at native resolution.  If this doesn't bother you then it is not an issue though.

 

However, for me I freely admit I am a bit of a nerd when it comes to visual fidelity , so that is why I prefer and use Quality mode exclusively.

It gives me a nice performance boost and retains the visual quality. On average it drops CPU/GPU utilization by about 20 - 35% depending on area.

Vram usually drops about 400 MB or so with DLSS - Quality mode. 

 

So yes , I am a fan of DLSS, but it is not a magic panacea .  Like any tool, it has both its limitations and advantages and needs to be balanced 

to give the best performance for the users requirements.

 

Hope this is of help

Cheers 

Pete

 

These 3 screenshots are at unlimited max rate on my system. You can see the increase in max fps as you move over Brisbane a/p.

As I mentioned, Brisbane is a good testing area as for whatever reasons this airport is a heavy resource load.

 

GPU utilization is 94% which is the highest I have seen.

 

 

 

 

This is pretty much the max fps with these overall settings.  However, most folks would probably dial things down to balance visual fidelity and performance .  If I do that, i.e. settings on high , LOD - 100 and DLSS set to balanced mode , I can usually get around 58 - 64 fps during testing.

 

Switching to 30 fps gives a significant reduction in system resource requirements.

This is the fps setting that I always use. 

 

There is one "anomaly"  that I have seen  consistently  with DX12 and HAGS on and it is illustrated here.

When I switch from unlimited fps to a locked 30 fps, I see a reduction in VRAM requirements. It is usually small, around 100 -150 MB

but any decrease is useful with a 8GB card.

 

This was just a test to see the impact of cloud settings.  As you can see the 3070ti  is handling it without issue.

At a locked 30 fps, a GPU utilization of 70% is the maximum load I see regardless of where I fly.

 

And the last 2 are just because I liked the look of them 

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by renault

[craigeaglefire]

Hi Jon,

 

as you are currently using a 1080Ti with 11GB of VRAM it would be good to get a replacement GPU with at least similar VRAM capacity…

 

as Pete mentions, Brisbane with Orbx YBBN & Cityscape uses a lot of VRAM with quality settings - I’m finding it fluctuates between 10-14GB VRAM whilst doing circuits around this area,

 

I believe this issue is why many have reported stuttering in this area,

 

as always, it becomes necessary to adjust settings to maintain performance ,

 

am very happy indeed with SU10 Beta DX12 with DLSS Quality & HAGS ON = smooth performance in all areas…

 

we’ll also know soon about the anticipated new Nvidia driver…

Edited September 14, 2022 by craigeaglefire
DX12

[Jon Clarke]

@renault @craigeaglefire

Gents.

Thank you so much for your input. Highly useful info.

The only possible affordable GPU with over 8GB VRSAM is a 3060 but it seems to have bad reviews.

Any comment on that aspect?

[craigeaglefire]

well Jon,

 

you definitely would not go lower than your current 11GB imo,

 

but you will get DLSS with a newer GPU,

 

GPU prices have been $crashing to affordable levels recently,

 

was always disappointed that my previous 2080Ti only had 11GB VRAM,

 

please check the available alternatives...

[Jon Clarke]

@craigeaglefire

I was just looking at 2080Ti and then you appear to have had one and was disappointed. Correct?

2080Ti does well in reviews so I would be interested to know your experience with it and why you changed it out. Or are you just rich

 

 

[craigeaglefire]

Hi Jon,

 

my 2080Ti is the best, until now, best GPU I ever had - brilliant performance!

 

it is sitting in a box now, after upgrading to 3090...

 

never disappointed with the 2080Ti 11GB - but I personally thought it should have been 16GB VRAM - that's IMO... 

[craigeaglefire]

& Jon,

 

I just mortgaged my house to get cataract surgery,

 

fresh new eyes,

 

so I spent the change LOL

[Jon Clarke]

Thanks for making my choosing even more difficult !!

[craigeaglefire]

Hi Jon,

 

the absolute fact is I have proven for myself that 11GB VRAM is just not enough in all MFS circumstances - sad but true,

 

so I just had to take advantage of the current 3090 with 24GB VRAM opportunity,

 

heck, far less $cash than all my Orbx add ons!

[BradB]

I have on my older rig twin titan’s with 16GB of VRAM . My newer rig is a RTX 360 with 12GB of VRAM . 
I use both rigs with MSFS and visually they look about the same . So if you can purchase more 

VRAM , that is the way I would go in the future . 

[Jon Clarke]

@BradB Thanks for that info. Due to a limited budget in these hard times that may well be the way i go.

[craigeaglefire]

@Jon Clarke,

 

VRAM my friend is the key!

[JimmiG]

I run an RTX 3060 Ti which works great with MSFS. There's no need for DLSS since I only run at 1080p, but it's a brilliant piece of tech for upscaling to higher resolutions.

 

The performance of DLSS basically scales with the actual (non-upscaled) resolution. For example, with Balanced, you get the same performance at 4K as you would get at 2227x1253p without DLSS. Performance mode at 4K = 1920x1080p and so on. There's a tiny bit of overhead for the actual Deep Learning upscale, but in reality it's barely noticeable.

 

While you might see MSFS fill up all available VRAM regardless of whether you have 6, 8 or 12 GB, in reality it doesn't necessarily need all that VRAM. It's just taking advantage of all VRAM since it's there to use.

Edited September 15, 2022 by JimmiG

[renault]

Hi Jon

 

This might be helpful to you , as you can do some testing with the existing SU9  version of MS2020 that you currently have

Suggest you try it with all your normal settings , and then maybe with everything on ultra and LOD at 200 for the max load test.

 

The values in TAA render scaling are within engineering accuracy of the DLL scaling factors (I did them on mine and double checked against Craigs Quality setting @craigeaglefire just to be sure). The DLSS scaling factors were calculated from the scaled resolutions available in Developer mode in

the FPS dropdown.

 

DLSS - Quality Setting  - Scaling Factor = 0.667                           Equivalent TAA Render Scaling Factor = 65

DLSS - Balanced Setting - Scaling Factor = 0.58                           Equivalent TAA Render Scaling Factor = 60

DLSS - Performance Setting  - Scaling Factor = 0.50                    Equivalent TAA Render Scaling Factor = 50

DLSS  - Ultimate Performance Setting - Scaling Factor = 0.33     Equivalent TAA Render Scaling Factor = 35

 

I did some checking with several runs on my machine and performance between the two methods matches very well.

DLSS - Quality is visually (to me) much better than the Equivalent TAA Render Scaling

but DLSS Ultimate Performance is a lot worse that the Equivalent TAA  Render Scaling.

 

But both are not very good visually at such a high upscaling level,  and I don't think  most folks would be happy with either.

 

I think especially if you do this type of test with your current GPU  and your current preferred settings  you can get a good idea  how

much above 8 GB you might have to go (as you have 11 GB Vram on the 1080) , or you may find that 8 GB is quite workable.

 

You can of course also try it with SU10 as they have done a lot of work on memory management using the TAA Render Scaling approach.

 

The other comment I would have is that Asobo has indicated that they will be adding the AMD FSR 2.1 or higher (I'm just not sure of their latest version) algorithm which is AMD's version of improved rendering  in response to the Nvidia DLSS method.

 

It's advantage is that it does not use RTX cores , so it would be suitable for both the Nvidia GTX cards as well as AMD GPU's. 

There is no committed time frame yet for this as apparently initial tests indicated that AMD needs to do some additional work.

 

From what I have seen in comparison testing of other games,  DLSS - Quality is better visually, but the other settings are very comparable. 

 

That's not to say that AMD's version is drastically worse visually than the DLSS Quality setting, but rather it is very workable but not quite

of the same visual fidelity imho.

 

As I mentioned in my note , I think a 3070 or 3070 ti is a great choice for 1440p, but the 8 GB limit might not be workable at higher resolutions. However, depending on your settings you may find from the above testing that it would be a choice.

 

I hope that the above will help in your decision making. 

If I think of anything else to try I will be in touch

 

All the best

Pete

 

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by renault

[Ian St]

If there isn't an immediate need to upgrade, why not see what the 4070 12Gb brings later in the year (hopefully) or alternatively its effect on 3XXX range prices as they seek to clear stock before release. You might find yourself with more buying power.

[Jon Clarke]

Again thanks for the responses, especially Pete's usual highly detailed ones.

1 hour ago, Ian St said:

If there isn't an immediate need to upgrade, why not see what the 4070 12Gb brings later in the year (hopefully) or alternatively its effect on 3XXX range prices as they seek to clear stock before release. You might find yourself with more buying power.

Budget is my limitation.

After consulting with my PC specialist I have purchased a 3070 Triple fan

I asked about the limited (compared to 1080 ti vram) vram of 8GB and was immediately asked 2 questions.

1. Do I use multi monitor? No

2 Do I use VR. No

It was then suggested that the 3070 would be fine with 8Gb vram.

I asked about the 3060 with 12GB vram and was advised that it would only really equate to an newer version of the current 1080Ti and that the 3070 would be a higher spec performance wise and have RT and DLSS facility.

 

Hence my decision.

Many thanks for your contributions and suggestion. I may well let you know what i think of the new GPU after I receive and install it.

[Justinmaches]

On 9/16/2022 at 3:17 AM, JimmiG said:

I run an RTX 3060 Ti which works great with MSFS. There's no need for DLSS since I only run at 1080p, but it's a brilliant piece of tech for upscaling to higher resolutions.

 

The performance of DLSS basically scales with the actual (non-upscaled) resolution. For example, with Balanced, you get the same performance at 4K as you would get at 2227x1253p without DLSS. Performance mode at 4K = 1920x1080p and so on. There's a tiny bit of overhead for the actual Deep Learning upscale, but in reality it's barely noticeable. gmail

 

While you might see MSFS fill up all available VRAM regardless of whether you have 6, 8 or 12 GB, in reality it doesn't necessarily need all that VRAM. It's just taking advantage of all VRAM since it's there to use.

This is not using the latest Nvidia driver that ought to be available with SU10's official release. So I'll check in with Hags again to see if I can.

observe the similar gain in system performance and usability.