[DISCUSSION AND POLL] - DVD pricing and FTX Mode

[John Venema]

There are a number of topics floating around regarding the DVD, FTX Mode, discounts, freebies and previous promotional campaigns. I thought it would be timely to open up a public information and discussion session and a poll on FTX Mode so we can all be on the same page.

You will recall that during October-December last year Orbx was in a bit of a cashflow crisis. There were a number of quick-fix marketing campaigns announced with banners, free DVD, massive discounts on airports and lots of other offers. Some of those offers we kept running for over 60 days (i.e. the flat AU$30 pricing on all products), and it saved a lot of our customers a genuine amount of money if they acted quickly. The support we got from those mini-campaigns was so positive that it essentially gave Orbx the cashflow to finish off AU RED and release other airport product, regroup and restructure internal costs so that we're in much stronger shape for 2009 and the release of our USA/Canada series.

During those frantic few weeks of guerilla marketing, there were periods of less than a single day where a 'free DVD' was promised. What I can honestly say is that those customers who qualified for that offer can be counted on less than one hand - that is, if anyone had purchased all 4 regions online during that offer, they were promised a free DVD. Once we realised that to do so would actually cost Orbx money, we quickly pulled that offer.

So let me clarify now, today - there's no free DVD offer, simply for the reason that's doing so is just bad business and does not make sense.

Here are some general points of clarification regarding the DVD and FTX Mode:

- The DVD contents are still in a state of flux. The DVD *will* include all 4 FTX AU regions (BLUE/GOLD/GREEN/RED), much more updated landclass and a bonus airport, Coffs Harbour SP1. The inclusion of YSCH SP1 is to provide an incentive for new customers and it won't affect the price of the DVD, which has been locked at AU$179 from day one. If you've purchased YSCH already you will get an additional credit off the price of the DVD for it, saving you even more. If you don't want the DVD but have purchased YSCH, we will of course make SP1 available to you as a free download where you will use your existing YSCH key to install the SP1 release.

So the sliding scale of discounts is as follows:

DVD Price = AU$179

If you have purchased one FTX region online , you get an AU$33 credit off the price of the DVD. That's regardless of what you paid for the online region.

If you have purchased two FTX regions online, you get an AU$66 credit off the price of the DVD

If you have purchased three FTX regions online, you get an AU$99 credit off the price of the DVD

If you have purchased four FTX regions online, you get an AU$132 credit off the price of the DVD

If you have purchased four FTX regions online *and* YSCH, you get an AU$165 credit off the price of the DVD

So if you are a burger-with-the works customer, you will pay AU$14 for the DVD. That's about USD$8.50 or 7 Euros.

If you choose to download the DVD (i.e. the online version which will be a ~ 4.7GB download), then there are no more charges, and we'll include the DVD cover artwork so you can print your own DVD jewel case cover and DVD circular cover. If you choose to have the DVD mailed to you then you will pay for shipping fees, which vary according to where you are in the world. The choice is yours.

- The idea of the DVD is to not to profit from our already loyal and committed customers. That's never our aim - we want to reward you for purchasing the online regions, not penalise you. The only real benefit to you in the physical DVD is having a single installer of a tangile media disc which does not need validation. The downloadable version of the DVD comes with validation, since it would be commercial suicide in offering a downloadable product without validation, if that makes sense?

- So as mentioned, there will be a small cost involved to you if you want the DVD but have already purchased the online regions. This is simply to cover shipping and of course the manufacturing of the DVD. There is little point in Orbx losing money on just giving you a DVD. If you multiply free DVD's by the number of customers who have all 4 regions, then add the shipping costs, it would cost Orbx a fortune in giving it away. You also need to keep in mind that the ongoing development of the landclass costs Orbx money for the contractors who are being paid to create the landclass.

- Again, let me reiterate - I know that in early December I put up a banner saying 'free DVD', but I believe it was only up for less than a day before we changed that marketing campaign and then reduced the pricing back to the flat $30 rate for all products. For all of you who purchased all 4 regions during the duration of that banner advert, we are of course obliged to honour that advertising, but to be honest sales at that time were so low I don't believe anyone qualifies for the offer.

What about FTX Mode?

We have publically stated that we want FTX Mode to "go away". However we've run into some technical issues. We are in the midst of internal testing, coding and team discussion and the technical aspects of completely avoiding swapping out files may be more difficult that we first thought.

What this means is that there may still be some file switching required, particularly for the vegetation textures, since FSX provides a very limited pallette for trees which we had to fully exploit to give Australia its unique flora coverage. That said, we're doing everything we can to find a solution with minimal intrusion.

One of the things being looked into this week for instance, is some coding of a DLL based solution which moves FTX Mode type functionality into the FSX menus, so that if any files need switching you can just select a menu while you're in a flight and perform those functions within the sim. I will be opening up the subject of FTX Mode for public discussion, as I am aware we've made public commitments about it and I don't want Orbx to get a reputation for breaking promises all the time

I guess the most pertinent question I have is: will you tolerate some form of file switching for FTX moving forward?

If the overwhelming consensus is "no", then you may need to be prepared for a delay of several months on the DVD and new FTX regions while we re-annotate the entire landclass texture classes to use just the vegetation cells allocated for Australia. That also means less variation in Northern Australia such as mangroves and other tropical tree types.

Open for discussion and your poll vote - but as always - please keep it civil

[Dexter Dog]

That little button is a key to transforming not just Australia, but potentially a lot more of FSX. It only takes a millisecond to click, I'm more than satisfied to keep it (and keep what we already have through FTX achievements!)

[maxter]

Good morning John.

Let me open by thanking you for the opportunity to discuss this issue in public.  Orbx customers are certainly amongst the privileged few to have this facility.

OK, the DVD and it's contents.  I understand the reasoning behind the initial confusion in respect of the pricing, the cash flow crisis and the eventual decision on making the DVD available.  What I am less certain about is the sudden inclusion of the YSCH scenery into the mix.

I think I can safely say that I am one of your organisation's most ardent supporters.  I will, when finances permit, purchase all of your add on payware airfields.  I already have YMML and was gifted YPJT by a very kind benefactor.  I have every intention of also picking up YSCH at some time in the future.

From the process outlined above, I now understand that to have the DVD as originally discussed (with all of the landclass improvements etc.), I now have to have/purchase YSCH as well, either before the DVD or as part of DVD.  I guess it's not a huge issue as I did intend to pick up the package eventually however I was wondering if there was going to be the opportunity to purchase the DVD sans YSCH as finances my not permit at the present time.  I know it's not a huge additional cost, but there is a tipping point  and I am close to mine    .

In respect of the FTX mode, my personal preference would be to have as little interaction with the application as possible.  I would be happy to wait as long as necessary for that functionality to be achieved.

Anyhow, regardless of the outcome, I am sure the final product will be a winner as are all the previous offerings that have been made available to date.

Cheers and thanks,

[Iain Emms]

That little button is a key to transforming not just Australia, but potentially a lot more of FSX. It only takes a millisecond to click, I'm more than satisfied to keep it (and keep what we already have through FTX achievements!)

Fully agree there mate takes nothing to click on the button cant see what the problem there is with that at all, And Thanks John for the information you have provided above.

cheers

Iain.

[John Venema]

From the process outlined above, I now understand that to have the DVD as originally discussed (with all of the landclass improvements etc.), I now have to have/purchase YSCH as well, either before the DVD or as part of DVD.  I guess it's not a huge issue as I did intend to pick up the package eventually however I was wondering if there was going to be the opportunity to purchase the DVD sans YSCH as finances my not permit at the present time.  I know it's not a huge additional cost, but there is a tipping point  and I am close to mine    .

YSCH will be bundled for FREE on the DVD. The price was always going to be AU$179, regardless of what was going to be bundled, so nothing has changed in terms of the DVD price. In fact we have to pay royalties to John Ross for YSCH so it's costing Orbx something to bundle Coffs.

So it matters not if you purchase Coffs now or later, or purchase the DVD; you'll get a credit off the DVD for Coffs either way

So to clarify - you don't have to purchase Coffs to get the DVD discount; it's not mandatory  If you have only purchased 4 FTX AU regions then the DVD will cost you AU$179 - $132 = AU$47. And if you had purchased the four FTX AU regions before Jan 1st, you're actually getting a $132 credit for $119.80 worth of purchases - not bad I reckon

[maxter]

Not bad indeed, thanks for the clarification.

Cheers,

[Serge]

John,

Thanks for the clarification. I reckon it was needed. I can live with the FTX mode, it doesn't bother me. ORBX is the only 3rd party scenery I have for FSX so I don't turn it off (although I understand that others will need to). I have one question though. You mention that the DVD will have "much more updated landclass". Is it correct for me to assume that this updated landclass will be available via a SP for those who have the regions but don't purchase the DVD or is it an exclusive feature for the DVD only?

Cheers,

Serge

[John Venema]

John,

Thanks for the clarification. I reckon it was needed. I can live with the FTX mode, it doesn't bother me. ORBX is the only 3rd party scenery I have for FSX so I don't turn it off (although I understand that others will need to). I have one question though. You mention that the DVD will have "much more updated landclass". Is it correct for me to assume that this updated landclass will be available via a SP for those who have the regions but don't purchase the DVD or is it an exclusive feature for the DVD only?

Cheers,

Serge

Hi Serge. There will be a seperate SP3 release for FTX AU later this year which will add the landclass on the DVD for those who don't want/need the DVD. SP3 will actually be needed by DVD owners to further update the DVD with missing towns and other bug fixes. Again, our aim is to not penalise our loyal customers who have supported us so well in 2008/09 - so never fear about missing out on any enhancements. Orbx's policy is to always support existing customers over and above any new releases we make.

[Serge]

Thanks again John.

Cheers,

Serge

[kiwikat]

Since we already have the four region packs and YSCH, I'm all for waiting for a solution to present itself.  If it were an entirely new product I'd be more eager to get it in my hands. 

Please keep trying to find a solution to make that "button" go away.

[dmrich28]

I've never understood the problem with using FTX mode..I just have all my flight icons lined up on the desktop with FTX mode 1st in line so I never forget to switch if outside the area. Leave it as is if you want in my opinion.

Thanks for making the DVD available via download for us that are far from you and to save shipping costs and waiting time

Dave

[teecee]

No problem with the costs.. and comfortable with the mailing costs to the USA.. no problem with FTX mode button as is.. The DVD will be fine whenever (but the sooner the better to be honest) and an SP later in the year would be the icing on the cake.. Teecee.

[Trevor Golding]

Coding of a DLL based solution which moves FTX Mode type functionality into the FSX menus.

Would be my choice, on the fly moving from region to region. Unless you can find a way to get rid of it the mode button completely.

To keep the mode button would mean in another 2 years with Australian Textures, PNW Textures, New Zealand Textures, Textures for Europe, you will end up with a lot of mode buttons...

Also for those that have a tendency to load "other" sceneries, less chance to foul up your scenery texture folders.

Just my thoughts on subject, could be completely wrong of course.

Thanks John for giving us this opportunity to have our say.

Regards

Trevor

[Krono]

Hi John

The FTX mode for me is not really an issue since I have all your products and only fly within Australia, not only because of how bland fsx scenery looks as compared to FTX but also because I mainly fly GA craft and so only see a limited amount of the landmass available at a time.  For those that do the long flights and so leave FTX regions while in sim is it possible for a small message (maybe through the ATC screen) or a scrolling message similar to REX that simply states You are entering FSX regions please dissengage FTX so that it gives you the warning and opportunity to pause the sim and reset or as you have suggested have it in the menus so that you can turn it off like any other panel or camera. On the other hand of course this issue will have more or less relevance as you start in other countries. Making it as easy as possible to change from FTX to FSX could have a large effect if for example you were flying across Europe and going in and out of your areas.

Just a suggestion and thanks for the opportunity to be able to have an input.

As for the DVD no problems on any wait as I know you will do the best you can do for your company and your customers.

Ken

[Matthew Webb]

I only fly in OZ so FTX Mode can stay on for me.  So much to Explore!!!  Though when the North America regions come on board that will change...

The pricing is reasonable to me too.  I am concerned that $179 one hit maybe to too much for a first time customer - so would this offer of "credits" for pre-existing purchases always exist?  Not that it affects me.

Cheers,

Matt.

[Sniper31]

The FTX Mode button is not an issue for me....I know where I want to fly before I load up FSX (most of the time it's in FTX areas anyway) so hitting the button if needed is no big deal whatsoever for me.

Everything else regarding the DVD is clear to me, and I fully understand everything about it. Thanks for the update JV.

[VH-WCE]

The FTX mode Button dosen't bother me. I always fly in Aus anyway so i don't need to worry about it!

The DVD is fine! I think ill get it, since it has YSCH as well!

thanks for all the info JV

cheers,

[awright]

No problems with the button here. Looking forward to the content when released.

Alex

[Antarius]

The downloadable version of the DVD comes with validation, since it would be commercial suicide in offering a downloadable product without validation, if that makes sense?

I want to buy DVD to get rid of multiple installers and online validation. Validation for download dvd just kills it, I will be buying a hard copy then.

[ja-durant]

Hi John,

No problem at all with FTX mode button and no problems for the dvd.You will do the best you can for all of us and the company.

Cheers.

[Holy Cheese]

I've got no problem with the FTX on/off button - it's not exactly rocket science to click on the icon, and I've never really understood why this should be such a problem.

I certainly don't think it would be either in our interest as simmers or in ORBX's interest as a company to have to delay marketing of the PNW project sinply in order to remove the on/off mode. We've already had assurances that the ORBX PNW scenery will work fine together with UTX etc, so I can't see that there's any cause for concern because of the switch.

Cheers

Jack

[drwalker]

Hi John! Firstly, thank you for your frank post and for giving us the opportunity to respond. Whilst in the ideal world I could do without FTX mode switching, it is nonetheless a small price to pay for your superb scenery. Personally, I would rather see you and the team concentrate on new product development than on inordinate time trying to make FTX mode go away. The dvd is attractive to me as a one stop re-install point without validation, even though I already own all of your payware. Where can I preorder? I am running Win 7 beta so have at least one full re-install ahead in August when the beta stops working. Thanks again for asking for our input.

[Lynchee]

Hi John,

I think you guys are doing a fantastic job with your scenery and airport addons. Without ORBX I probably would have found a new hobby by now. I actually don't like flying for real (Jets), but I love being a low and slow Virtual Tourist.

      The FTX Mode Switch doesn't bother me at all. The pricing for all your addons is more than reasonable in my humble opinion. I personaly dont think ORBX needs to have an open discussion with the customers on pricing, the products speak loud and clear for themselves.

Thanks  Lynchie 

[Paul Baumanis]

John,

I have to admit that I am too tired or lazy to read through all the replies on this thread. So if this has been covered, sorry!

Having said that it has occurred to me that the FTX switcher is engaged when new ORBX software is installed and that maybe this could be done automatically with the installer. I don't know how the system works and this may be dumb, but it seems logical to me if the switcher cannot be eliminated.

[Tailgunner]

I haven't touched the button since Day I, and have had no problems flying elsewhere in the world.

[big-mike]

No problems with a little bit of switching here

Michael

[schugab]

I haven't touched the button since Day I, and have had no problems flying elsewhere in the world.

I don't either.

Everything works fine.

Greetings

Michael

[teecee]

Starting to look like a done deal mate.. fifty eight can live with the switcher.. five can't and eighteen don't care.. looks like the team can concentrate their considerable talents elsewhere.. Teecee.

[caribou]

Hi John,  make that 59 who don't care about the FTX button.  I only fly over FTX territory so it doesn't matter to me.

Appreciate your frank discussion of issues concerning FTX.

Looking forward to PNW...    Have a good day    Howard

[Agade]

Mark me down as one of the 'don't mind that much' ones. I have some situations where I need to switch and would probably prefer not to have to, but I'd rather see OrbX releasing new product than working on a new way to run the mode switcher and as it doesn't come up that often, I can live with it .

[John Venema]

We are testing moving of the FTX Mode functionality into an FSX menu inside the sim this week. That will make the whole process more integrated but there are some technical limitations with texture refresh in FSX which may mean that even though you can switch mid-flight (we've tested it and it works), FSX needs an exit/restart to see the changes. However the entire team has their thinking caps on and we're brainstorming a lot of ideas.

Thanks so much for your poll responses; I believe the best way to have the happiest customers is to involve them in importance product architecture decisions and your votes and also your comments here are very much appreciated.

As I said sometimes we can't always achieve what we want, even if we promise features with the best intentions in mind - but having your input certainly makes any shortcomings to our vision a shared pain, if you know what I mean.

Thanks again! (I will keep this poll open for a while though).

[Appliance]

I voted against the continuance of FTX mode. I am aware of criticisms of this ORBX technique from other developers and certain users. If at all possible lets not rock the boat ... a boat, it seems, we will have to put up with for many years to come.

As ORBX products become more popular internationally the need for switching IMHO will become a burden/intolerable rather than a facilitator to unbridled pleasure.

Please bite the bullet John ... do it right and clever, not quick and dirty.

[a49002]

I voted against the continuance of FTX mode. I am aware of criticisms of this ORBX technique from other developers and certain users. If at all possible lets not rock the boat ... a boat, it seems, we will have to put up with for many years to come.

As ORBX products become more popular internationally the need for switching IMHO will become a burden/intolerable rather than a facilitator to unbridled pleasure.

Please bite the bullet John ... do it right and clever, not quick and dirty.

Appliance,

I actually think you have summed it up with your comments very well indeed. As FTX USA takes off, the FTX mode will become a far larger 'inconvenience  factor.', for a far larger audience.

Well said!

Paul

[John Venema]

I voted against the continuance of FTX mode. I am aware of criticisms of this ORBX technique from other developers and certain users. If at all possible lets not rock the boat ... a boat, it seems, we will have to put up with for many years to come.

As ORBX products become more popular internationally the need for switching IMHO will become a burden/intolerable rather than a facilitator to unbridled pleasure.

Please bite the bullet John ... do it right and clever, not quick and dirty.

Thanks for the feedback. If FTX Mode is removed, so will a lot of the uniqueness of FTX, including custom trees, autogen, roads, 3D lights - you get the idea. The only reason we are switching those 30-odd files is because of inherent design limitations (I call them flaws) in the FSX SDK, which forces swapping in/out of files because either the SDK does not do what is documented, or ACES in their wisdom made files which should be local to custom landclass scenery - global files.

We can make FTX like GEX if that's what you want, but it would look nothing like FTX does today. Simply replacing base textures is just that - you'll just have new ground textures but those alone don't create the cohesive experience that you get with FTX. I think there would be a massive outcry from our customers if we dumbed FTX down to that extent.

If you want to see how an "FTX Light" would look like, do an FTX Mode [OFF] then load up your favourite areas in Australia and see if you're happy with that.

Like I said, the team is working in the background to minimise the intrusion of FTX file switching, to the point where it will be a much better FSX citizen moving forward. I think for a very minor inconvenience the advantages of FTX custom files outweigh the disadvantages of stripping most of the uniqueness out of FTX.

[Bendigoandy]

Do what ever you want ! We love the product and support you and thank you for looking after your loyal customers with the pricing !

Cheers , will shout the team a coffee @ Avalon !

[John Venema]

Cheers , will shout the team a coffee @ Avalon !

Done deal 

[dmrich28]

just do whatever you have to do so we somehow get the same quality in PNW as we are fortunate to have now.

I'll reboot my system 5 times if that's what it'll take everytime 

Dave

[dogdoor]

As a member of a virtual airline, when flying with the external app (VAFS) that tracks the flight, I am not able to readily abandon a flight in order to switch in and out of FTX mode. So when flying long distance O/S this can be problematic.

The only anoyance I have found with the FTX mode (which is always on) is that water bodies in the US do not load - just smudgy ground and the dreaded flat gable roof issue.

The ability to switch FTX on and off within game (and without interupting the current flight) would be ideal.

Still it really isnt an earth shattering issue.

[hobofat]

The FTX button is not a big deal.  Some of the options it supports, like the light poles, really enhance the FTX region and are unique in the world of flight sim.  In fact, I just leave FTX on all the time, even when flying outside of Australia, don't notice the difference as everything outside of Australia looks the same now 

Question...will the updated landclass only come on the DVD?

[}SkOrPn--7]

I only fly in Oz so using that button doesn't come into play so I'm easy it can stay because I much prefer to have all the beauty than have it removed and miss some of that fine work.