[DISCUSSION AND POLL] - DVD pricing and FTX Mode

[Appliance]

Thanks for the feedback. If FTX Mode is removed, so will a lot of the uniqueness of FTX, including custom trees, autogen, roads, 3D lights - you get the idea. The only reason we are switching those 30-odd files is because of inherent design limitations (I call them flaws) in the FSX SDK, which forces swapping in/out of files because either the SDK does not do what is documented, or ACES in their wisdom made files which should be local to custom landclass scenery - global files.

We can make FTX like GEX if that's what you want, but it would look nothing like FTX does today. Simply replacing base textures is just that - you'll just have new ground textures but those alone don't create the cohesive experience that you get with FTX. I think there would be a massive outcry from our customers if we dumbed FTX down to that extent.

If you want to see how an "FTX Light" would look like, do an FTX Mode [OFF] then load up your favourite areas in Australia and see if you're happy with that.

Like I said, the team is working in the background to minimise the intrusion of FTX file switching, to the point where it will be a much better FSX citizen moving forward. I think for a very minor inconvenience the advantages of FTX custom files outweigh the disadvantages of stripping most of the uniqueness out of FTX. 

Posted on: Today at 09:43:40 AM

Posted by: a49002

I see what you mean John. I took a flight from Moorrabin with FTX mode off/on and the difference was marked. Betraying my total lack of programming skills could not FTX mode be triggered by selection of GO TO menu item of country/airport selection? Or, even better, selected automatically based on departure/arrival airports selection during Flight Planning phase? 

[John Venema]

I see what you mean John. I took a flight from Moorrabin with FTX mode off/on and the difference was marked. Betraying my total lack of programming skills could not FTX mode be triggered by selection of GO TO menu item of country/airport selection? Or, even better, selected automatically based on departure/arrival airports selection during Flight Planning phase? 

We have an FTX switcher working from FSX menus, but that does not solve the technical problem of FSX refusing to re-load textures once a flight has started, which makes switching during flights (yes I feel for the VA flyers, believe me), not an option. Once again it's a limitation of the FSX tech which we are banging our heads against here 

[Aceshigh]

I'm use to the FTX switch mode, it was there from the start.

So if it is still there in some shape or form does not concern me.

The only time it became an issue is installing new scenery software if one forgot to turn it off first.

Rare for me now as I use mostly FTX anyway.

So I voted :  "I don't care. I can live with FTX Mode or some variation of it."

Sure fine tune, add new landclass, hotfixes "etc"  ... but in the end  "if's its not broke dont fix it"   LOL

I look forward to the DVD only if I need to reinstall as I do not have to worry about online key codes, installing in any order, finding hotfixs, service packs  "etc".  Install and fly is what I look forward to the DVD and its features.   For now my FTX is running fine so the DVD will get used later on my next new PC.

thanks

Mark     (Aceshigh)

[dmrich28]

ya if this becomes a hassle with the dvd etc I'll pass I think.

I have a system that is low end compared with all of yours and I just got it working the way I want recently.

I'm with Aces..if it ain't broke don't fix it.

I'm sure I'm missing what's really involved however.. just hate change when it's working.

Dave

[Siggy]

We have an FTX switcher working from FSX menus, but that does not solve the technical problem of FSX refusing to re-load textures once a flight has started, which makes switching during flights (yes I feel for the VA flyers, believe me), not an option. Once again it's a limitation of the FSX tech which we are banging our heads against here 

FSX has some function one can map to a key that's called something like 'Refresh Scenery'. I think it reloads all scenery. It might mean a 30 sec pause but it could be done over one of the oceans surrounding us ). Would that work ?

Cheers,

Siggy

[Chevy]

The only anoyance I have found with the FTX mode (which is always on) is that water bodies in the US do not load - just smudgy ground and the dreaded flat gable roof issue.

Exactly the same here: since I have no water bodies with UTX USA when FTX mode is on I'll appreciate the ability to turn FTX off. I don't know how this will work technically when FTX USA will be released...

This is the only point for me that should be solved. Apart from that I can live with your switcher forever and ever - as long as ORBX / FTX persists (as I said: forever and ever).

Cheers

Christian

[John Venema]

We have an FTX switcher working from FSX menus, but that does not solve the technical problem of FSX refusing to re-load textures once a flight has started, which makes switching during flights (yes I feel for the VA flyers, believe me), not an option. Once again it's a limitation of the FSX tech which we are banging our heads against here 

FSX has some function one can map to a key that's called something like 'Refresh Scenery'. I think it reloads all scenery. It might mean a 30 sec pause but it could be done over one of the oceans surrounding us ). Would that work ?

Cheers,

Siggy

No that doesn't work - that simply reloads all texture assets from cache.

[John Venema]

The only anoyance I have found with the FTX mode (which is always on) is that water bodies in the US do not load - just smudgy ground and the dreaded flat gable roof issue.

Exactly the same here: since I have no water bodies with UTX USA when FTX mode is on I'll appreciate the ability to turn FTX off. I don't know how this will work technically when FTX USA will be released...

This is the only point for me that should be solved. Apart from that I can live with your switcher forever and ever - as long as ORBX / FTX persists (as I said: forever and ever).

Cheers

Christian

That issue will most certainly be solved with our terrain.cfg tool, similar to the UTX one, which means they coexist quite happily even with FTX Mode on.

[Siggy]

No that doesn't work - that simply reloads all texture assets from cache.

You mean the O/S file cache ? Maybe there is a way to either drop files from that cache (not sure) or a way to trick the cache to believe files have changed ?

[alan2]

choose the the path that increases quality i.e no loss of mangroves or any scenic ojects or definition  etc .

[TreeTops]

John wrote : That also means less variation in Northern Australia such as mangroves and other tropical tree types.

John, dont you dare compromise this fantastic product for a simple switch. This product is what sets you apart from the rest of the world.

100% prefer you to forge ahead with new product.

[Patrick Scharnowski]

I don't mind the FTX mode! And if getting rid of the FTX mode means a reduction in diversity of vegitation then that's definitely a NO-NO. By all means, keep the FTX mode and don't reduce diversity if there is no other way to solve the problem. There shouldn't be any compromises in scenery quality to be made, just to get rid of this little FTX mode thingy.

John wrote : That also means less variation in Northern Australia such as mangroves and other tropical tree types.

John, dont you dare compromise this fantastic product for a simple switch. This product is what sets you apart from the rest of the world.

100% prefer you to forge ahead with new product.

What he said! Full ack!

[mooniclips]

I have bought all the scenery and airports, so the DVD doesn't add anything (unless I'm mistaken). The reason I was looking forward to it was to remove the FTX mode switching as I do flights in other areas. So it's a little disappointing to hear that this facility might disappear. But I'm no technical guru, and if you guys say its a problem I take your word for it and I'm no worse off than I am now. if you hadn't offered it I'd have carried on exceptionally happy with the product I've got.

Rich

[teecee]

Dunno if I am just dumb, or I am misreading what is at stake here, as my tech knowledge in limited to say the least.. surely, all the switcher does is turn off the Aussie textures?? restores the defaults?.. and if this is so, why the fuss about flying in other areas?? turn it off, and you are good to go.. one of the reasons I don't truly understand this is because of my parochialism.. I never fly outside Aus any more, thank to Orbx, so I never touch the mode button..

As far as the US is concerned.. is it not possible to give them a mode switcher just  as you have Aus?..in fact each area that you undertake could have it's own switcher surely?.. the only people to be inconvenienced then would be those flying between continents..

Oh and John, please do not sacrifice one minute part of your marvelous product to fix this, to me, minor problem.. Teecee.

[John York]

I don't mind the mode button really but having had the experience of forgetting it was on when it shouldn't be, err, or vice versa, it would be nice to be able to correct things while in FSX rather than switch it off and go all through the rigmarole of starting all over again.  But, having said that, for goodness sake keep it if its going to cause a lot of work and limit FTX in any way.  I'd rather you got on with the development of FTX than worry about that!

Oh, and yes.  I'll have the DVD.  It's a good back up to prevent that long download if something goes very wrong.

Just tell us what we have to do and when.

John

[Patrick Scharnowski]

I have bought all the scenery and airports, so the DVD doesn't add anything (unless I'm mistaken).

You are mistaken. It adds full landclass coverage (including lots of towns that are missing in the download packages). Check the PDF documentation of the AU packages on Page 13 (page 12 in the GOLD documentation) to see how much landclass work is still missing.

[teecee]

As I understand it, Orbx is now considering allowing DL of the "DVD" additional work.. in the form of a downloadable DVD.

I for one will definitely go for the DVD..it's a great way to do a reinstall should it ever become necessary.. and knowing my track record.. it will. Teecee.

[John Venema]

I have bought all the scenery and airports, so the DVD doesn't add anything (unless I'm mistaken).

You are mistaken. It adds full landclass coverage (including lots of towns that are missing in the download packages). Check the PDF documentation of the AU packages on Page 13 (page 12 in the GOLD documentation) to see how much landclass work is still missing.

Hi Jigsaw - whilst the DVD will include much more LC for the whole country, it won't be 100% coverage. That will come in FTX AU SP3 later this year (free to all customers) - the amount of work to completely finish the whole country is enormous and will take a few more months yet.

[maxter]

Thanks for the feedback. If FTX Mode is removed, so will a lot of the uniqueness of FTX, including custom trees, autogen, roads, 3D lights - you get the idea. The only reason we are switching those 30-odd files is because of inherent design limitations (I call them flaws) in the FSX SDK, which forces swapping in/out of files because either the SDK does not do what is documented, or ACES in their wisdom made files which should be local to custom landclass scenery - global files.

I too voted for the switch to be removed, however if there is the slightest chance that the uniqueness of FTX is compromised by the removal process, I would stay with the Mode button in a heart beat.  Please understand that it is this very uniqueness that keeps us all coming back here time and again to purchase your wares....

Cheers and thanks,

[John Dow]

Another point for consideration when weighing up the pros and cons... FTX grew out of a need for better scenery for low and slow VFR flying.  The big iron drivers generally spend a lot of the approach and departure in the cockpit, and when they're free to look around they're generally too high to get the full benefits of the scenery. 

So if it came to a decision on who to please, I think the VFR drivers are the ones who will be most affected.  If big iron drivers find it too much of a hassle to reset the sim once they've reached cruising altitude (when there's little to do for minutes a t a time) than perhaps FTX isn't for them, whereas foer the low and slow drivers it has become almost a mandatory element of the sim.

I'm sure eventually a breakthrough in coding will come to please everyone.

[marc_eddn]

I own many European addons. Although In don't use them often, I want them to be installed. And since I always fly FTX mode on, I sometimes forgot to switch it off during installs, which more than once killed my FSX and made me reinstall. I am even thinking of having one FSX for FTX only and another instance for "the rest".

I could live with a FTX mode that would switch off automatically after FSX would exit, so worst case I fly with FTX mode off (I'll notice, as I did before) but I will never destroy my FSX by installing some hard-core addons with FTX mode on.

This is my main point. If you get other addons to install flawlessly by default, I don't care if I have to switch on FTX mode every time. I was already thinking of a script that turns on FTX mode every time I start FSX and turns it off automatically when I finish.

I voted for (3). Either get a clean solution, or I'll live with whatever is there just to have the FTX experience. Don't sacrifice FTX looks for convenience!

Best regards

Marc

[Guest Private-Cowboy]

1.) Thanks for the clear words, it's not often a developer speaks out that clearly.

2.) For me, there is no FTX-mode already. That is because I do 99.9% of my flying over FTX anyway and FTX-mode is always on. For the very rare occasions I fly a bit over Oahu or FlyTampa (my only scenery besides FTX) I have no problem switching FTX off. However given the fact that FTX basically transforms FSX totally, why would anyone want to switch it off anyway? I'd guess that future regions will plug in the FTX-on anyway so with increasing coverage (NA Blue etc) the region that is worth flying in gets bigger and bigger and switching FTX off less and less important.

3.) I don't think a longer delay because of FTX-mode-removal is in the best interest. Customers would like to get new regions asap and if there is a several month delay I bet my entire ORBX collection that the cash flow problems for ORBX will be massive again. Cashflow is mainly maintained by pumping out new addons, not sitting on 'old' ones. I'm not sure how many AU Blue are still beeing sold on a weekly basis but I'd say it would be much less than a new NA Blue.

ORBX seems to have a close following and that's good. It could be larger as it seems but I hope the 'fan base' will increase once ORBX starts to cover other continents. That 'fan base' is prolly buying any new addon and therefor will ensure the survival of ORBX. I don't know if the hope that a few people that have not gotten Australia yet and will get it now can have the same effect.

ORBX has invested a lot of time and money in the technology lying underneath the addons and FTX-mode is part of it. Restructering it all will only cost more money, more time and will introduce more problems and more bugs. Why would anyone wanna do that to a solution that is already very user friendly and ... just works.

I'd say keep working on new stuff and enhancing old stuff (SP1 for YMML etc) instead tinkering with the formula.

Keep up the good work!

P.S.: One word of advice. I know the FSS and staff is doeing a nice job but I already met close to a dozen people who like to get FTX but can't because of the exclusive FSS sale of ORBX - they neither have credit card nor Paypal. Expending to other shops like Simmarket or Aerosoft might attract a lot more new customers than you might think. You could keep new addons FSS-exclusive for some time but you're shooting yourself in the foot if it stays like it is.

[Milamber]

I hold the same view and have voted the same way as marc_eddn option 3.  I have already built a multi FSX install, as I fly with multiflyer groups, VATSIM and two others using "private" servers, mainly in Europe.  This was done because the mode switcher does impact on other scenery. Should you forget and it's a real pain in the proverbial to have to close FSX to do a mode switch.

Maurice.

[VH-WCE]

WOW!! this is a bit off topic but with the screenshot comp over (blah blah... will get to the point ).... there is more votes on this pole than was was on the screenshot poll!! just thought i would post this ("shocking")info lol

well continue on with the topic LoL

cheers,

[Patrick Scharnowski]

Remember VOZ? We had to switch regions (VOZ mode) for every single one of the four Australian areas! FTX mode is heaven in comparison!

Hi Jigsaw - whilst the DVD will include much more LC for the whole country, it won't be 100% coverage. That will come in FTX AU SP3 later this year (free to all customers) - the amount of work to completely finish the whole country is enormous and will take a few more months yet.

Ah, okay. But it's good to know that 100% coverage will be achieved in the end. And yeah, I can imagine that it's an enormous amount of work. After all, it's not just a country, it's a whole friggin' continent! 

[teecee]

"P.S.: One word of advice. I know the FSS and staff is doeing a nice job but I already met close to a dozen people who like to get FTX but can't because of the exclusive FSS sale of ORBX - they neither have credit card nor Paypal. Expending to other shops like Simmarket or Aerosoft might attract a lot more new customers than you might think. You could keep new addons FSS-exclusive for some time but you're shooting yourself in the foot if it stays like it is."

Mate, the service at the FSS is second to none..methods of payment are flexible.. backup is fast and accurate.. and friendly.. why would you want to change it?? Orbx website points directly to the FSS.. and sets the price, why go searching the net looking for other sources? talk about gilding the lily.. Teecee.

[Guest Private-Cowboy]

That's not the point - as you can see on my sig I got all ORBX has to offer so far. But I know quite a few people who are only buying from "their" usual store (beeing Simmarket or Aerosoft most of the time) because they are used to do so and know the store well. It's not reasonable but quite a few people I know are somehow reluctant to buy from FSS because they have never done so and don't know how well it does work.

Now what is easier? Trying to "convert" them to FSS or simply offering ORBX through more than one channel?

[teecee]

mate perhaps we can agree to disagree over this..after all, the ones that make the marketing choices have the final say.. Teecee.

[Guest Private-Cowboy]

Sure they have. I'm just thinking that there are ways to push ORBX into a broader audience. I'm all for aussie-pride and stuff but on a global scale, FSS is not exactly a big player and not widely known. There are still people around that fly FSX with FTX and GEX that don't even know what FTX is and that it existed.

[John Venema]

Yes our marketing is off-topic, but to allay your concerns the FTX AU DVD will be available to any reseller who wants to sell them, so that will include those stores mentioned above.

[TreeTops]

Sorry to keep going off topic but FYI Private-Cowboy's friends, i ordered TrackIR Ultra from FSS about 11pm last night and had an email before lunch today with the order completed.

i have purchase all FTX (except Avalon as yet), multiple planes and add-ons from FSS and i have nothing but high praise for Adrian. 100%.

Well thats when he is not off getting married lol.

TreeTops.

[Patrick Scharnowski]

That's not the point - as you can see on my sig I got all ORBX has to offer so far. But I know quite a few people who are only buying from "their" usual store (beeing Simmarket or Aerosoft most of the time) because they are used to do so and know the store well. It's not reasonable but quite a few people I know are somehow reluctant to buy from FSS because they have never done so and don't know how well it does work.

That's there loss then. I wonder how they started to shop at Simmarket or Aerosoft, because, uuuuh... they never bought there before! 

[Siggy]

The thing is that these retailers are in the country those people live in and they speak the same language and, above all, they can pay via EFT, which is important in a geography where credit cards are rather the exception than the rule.

My AUD$.02 )

Siggy

[ahaka]

May I ask, do we need to uninstall all the previous FTX regions before installing the DVD, or does the DVD update them automatically?

[John Venema]

May I ask, do we need to uninstall all the previous FTX regions before installing the DVD, or does the DVD update them automatically?

It updates them automagically

Although if it were me, I'd use the DVD as an excuse to do some spring cleaning and do a fresh install of FSX, which never hurts.

[Patrick Scharnowski]

Although if it were me, I'd use the DVD as an excuse to do some spring cleaning and do a fresh install of FSX, which never hurts.

Hehe, I won't be needing that. The only add ons I have are FTX and REX. And some aircraft of course.

[John York]

???No way John.  It would probably take the rest of my life to do that with the stuff i've got on it!

A good defragging is about all it'll get.

John

[Guest Private-Cowboy]

The thing is that these retailers are in the country those people live in and they speak the same language and, above all, they can pay via EFT, which is important in a geography where credit cards are rather the exception than the rule.

My AUD$.02 )

Siggy

That's exactly the reason as it seems. Not many people around here seem to have cc and tend to pay using EFT.

[mhockey21]

So if I have all the FTX regions, and YSCH and YWVA, but don't have the most current presale, do I still qualify for the extreme discount on the DVD?

[John Venema]

So if I have all the FTX regions, and YSCH and YWVA, but don't have the most current presale, do I still qualify for the extreme discount on the DVD?

Yes of course. The products which give you discounts on the DVD are the 4 regions and YSCH.