UK Airports

[Bruce Hamilton]

I don't find England boring at all, especially with all the UK2K airports I have, just hope ORBX can continue doing them as well.  Also keep in mind that the UK regions are being done by a third party company and not ORBX, not really fair to compare their regions to ORBX and say they're below standards.

[jaydor]

I don't find England boring at all, especially with all the UK2K airports I have, just hope ORBX can continue doing them as well.  Also keep in mind that the UK regions are being done by a third party company and not ORBX, not really fair to compare their regions to ORBX and say they're below standards.

 

You hit it on the nail Bruce, "with all the UK2K airports you have" Also I have not mentioned that England is below standards, just that PNW set the standard.. 

[britfrog]

Personally I think that Orbx made a bad corporate decision to drop the things they did best, the big airports like Melbourne and Brisbane, also opening an expensive office in the uk with lots of mouths to feed was also questionable because it necessitated large sales which upon reflection was unsustainable as it required the average simmer to invest large sums of money in ftx scenery per month, based on the speed of recent releases which in my opinion were far too frequent.. While there is no doubt that the UK has a huge simmer base, I do wonder what percentage of them prefer , and use,  major airports compared to those that love the atmosphere of a well designed local small vfr airfield.

I also think that their scenery should work well without having to purchase the ftx regional scenery as many, perhaps most people prefer photoscenery. this was voiced on many threads from the outset, but ignored.

Sadly perhaps,The time that they have lost has now allowed other companies to get a foothold making large airports, so perhaps now is the time to cut overheads and concentrate on what they did best, by staying in an area which hasnt been covered before.

The UK airports have already been covered by some good companies as has the scenery, and although the ftx airport scenery is better ,trying to convince  an impoverished Joe public to part with more money to replace scenery that he was already happy with was always going to be a big ask.

Likewise this new global thing, after the explanation by JV I can now see the reasoning behind it, especially if it gets rid of the necessity to switch regions as we now do with ftx central, but how many out there are going to buy into it?? especially if you already have something like GEX??? or photoscenery?

Sadly I wont be, not because i dont like it, far from it , but i can already fly from continent to continent with top class scenery and very good airports without any hassell at all.

so JV I dont envy you, as you are between a rock and a hard place right now but I shall be watching what you do with interest, and hope you find a happy solution.

As some famous general may have once said, it is sometimes best to go backward to enable one to go forward.

[Ripcord]

ORBX is doing just fine -- they are cranking out products left and right and they are taking a large chunk of the market (I have no data to support that, just my impression).  The fact that JV says that they will focus a little more on those regions that sell better than those regions that just kinda sell OK, to me that is to be expected.  He's listening to his customer base.  Good on him; that is what he needs to do to hang around for the long haul.

 

Nothing wrong with the UK airfields, most of us agree, in fact they are quite good AND there is still ample demand to finish up another half dozen of them or so, before moving on to Scotland to start doing more.  I would rather than a few more airports in Scotland myself. 

 

All he is saying is that (a) we all have limited resources, and ( they wish to focus to resources on those areas that sell better/are in higher demand.  They simply cannot do them all as fast as they might like so its an obvious decision.  It does not mean they won't circle back and do more UK airfields, ever.

[Simnut]

Likewise this new global thing, after the explanation by JV I can now see the reasoning behind it, especially if it gets rid of the necessity to switch regions as we now do with ftx central, but how many out there are going to buy into it? ? especially if you already have something like GEX??? or photoscenery?

Sadly I wont be, not because i dont like it, far from it , but i can already fly from continent to continent with top class scenery and very good airports without any hassell at all.

so JV I dont envy you, as you are between a rock and a hard place right now but I shall be watching what you do with interest, and hope you find a happy solution.

As some famous general may have once said, it is sometimes best to go backward to enable one to go forward.

I have to agree, I have over the years invested in a lot for FSX. I'm not about to replace my photoscenery with FTX Global (no offence). At the risk of repeating something which has probably been said here before and is certainly being said elsewhere; whereas I won't pay what I consider to be a high price to replace the global FSX scenery, I would pay double that high price if I were replacing the global X-Plane scenery with Orbx quality scenery. Many would cross the rubicon to XP if you guys were brave enough to create the market, for that is exactly what you would be doing make no mistake. Do a run around the X-Plane fora and you'll see the Orbx name crop up again and again. It's becoming accepted that Austin mucked up with his implausible world and people are praying to their deities for Orbx to elevate XP to where it really should be. Just a thought!

[Dibidut]

Posted Today, 10:21 AM

 

I agree with Howard, Quote:

 

"It's interesting, but I wonder how many others are like me, eg. I fly all my GA in PNW, Alaska and NZ. To me they are the ultimate places to fly for GA, The mountains, the lakes, the interesting terrain, IMO a far more enriching flying experience than the UK. OK, I know we have Wales and Scotland, but they are a very small areas in comparison. To a point and I know I've come under fire before for saying this, but I prefer the areas to Aus also. New Zealand however, is a great place, again because of the interesting scenery and terrain. As for the UK, I fly the biggies like the NGX and do so throughought Europe. So it means I need airports from the likes of UK2000 and Aerosoft, to which I have more than a few! While I understand the need to produce the airports for Orbx areas, I am nevertheless not surprised that sales are not as high as expected, this I would put down to the existing availability of superb airports from UK2000 and Aerosoft and also perhaps others who may share my love of GA flying elsehwere other than the UK."

 

I only fly in ORBX land but with EU & the new Global ORBX, i have to admit that, i of course will consider other vendors on the SimMarket, for bigger Airports.

On the European marked ORBX will have to compete with well-known Firms. But still there is many interesting Airports to be done ei. Aberdeen.

But as Howard say, Europe is for Biggies.

Henrik 

 

[picnic]

Months ago I did make the suggestion that for those of us who use photo scenery and not FTX regions then the current development parameters mitigated against us buying them which has the obvious consequent effect of marginalising a potential market and thus reducing potential sales.

 

However, for me personally, I live in the UK and my preference is to use photoscenery to fly over the "real" thing.  I love visiting an area (especially coastal) and then "flying " over it to see how it fits into the surroundings. I don't really want a "representation" of the UK, brilliant though it may be.  This precludes me from purchasing what look like the amazing airports ORBX has produced for the uK - which is a great pity.

 

Nicely put guys, it's pretty much the same for me

[Dibidut]

Hey Simnut.

I cant speak for John V, but X-Plane is as far i have seen, without any SOUL, and you are right in thinking that ORBX could add some

Henrik

[Simnut]

Hey Simnut.

I cant speak for John V, but X-Plane is as far i have seen, without any SOUL, and you are right in thinking that ORBX could add some

Henrik

Yeah I know what you mean. I've owned every version since 7 and each one has ultimately disappointed me. It could be the best sim out there but the terrible scenery pushes me back to FSX every time. Everyone who flies X-Plane even a little believes it to be the closest simulation of flying a real world aircraft but it needs to be more! If I could somehow combine ORBX with X-Plane I'd be a happy little camper indeed.

[roger hopkins]

Having read the GB offer for next week I was wondering if the 20% discount for OAPs ( sorry that should be elder members of the flightsim community) still receive this as well as the 25% reduction in EU products? if this is the case a 45% reduction is a offer I can't refuse

[Vora]

I'm an eyecandy flyer as well. IMHO, flying a GA plane in a simulator is about the eyecandy in the third dimension... mountains, rugged coast, diverse landscapes. Australia, NZ, and NA west coast are perfect for that. Southern England is as boring as Kansas would be. Or the prairie of Alberta for that matter (seriously, go west, at least to the Fraser River and beyond. Hopefully Vlad won't kill me now  )

 

Germany and Austria should be your next stepping stone and if you are going to split those countries into sectioned release, you will have to think hard as to what area to release first.

 

The southern half of Germany into Austria is one of the most amazing scenic area's in the world and if you have not been there then I suggest you visit yourself and then make a decision for future growth from there.

VFR Germany, Austria Professional, Switzerland Professional, German Airfields, German Airports, Mega Airport xxx ...

If UK2000 was any factor in the low sales then OrbX shouldn't even consider Germany or the Alps. Germany might be the biggest market in Europe but Aerosoft has a decade's worth of a headstart. They got everything covered from the smallest airfields to the biggest airports.

 

In Europe Italy or Scandinavia would come to mind... the former having an unexplicable poor coverage, the latter being the closest thing to a "European PNW".

 

Just my humble two cents.

[Taph]

I previously bought photo scenery for UK and it left a lot to be desired, no buildings, trees, airfields that were either sunken or raised. I was very pleased when Orbx chose to develop in UK, I have England, Wales, and Shoreham being retired and on a limited budget, have held back on buying other Orbx UK airports so I could have money for global and other UK regions. The rate of release of product has gone up which means I am still exploring the new area's I have purchased. UK airports are still an interest and will be purchased in the future its just that too many great things are on horizon so have to be more selective.

[Orgasmatron]

I previously bought photo scenery for UK and it left a lot to be desired, no buildings, trees, airfields that were either sunken or raised. I was very pleased when Orbx chose to develop in UK, I have England, Wales, and Shoreham being retired and on a limited budget, have held back on buying other Orbx UK airports so I could have money for global and other UK regions. The rate of release of product has gone up which means I am still exploring the new area's I have purchased. UK airports are still an interest and will be purchased in the future its just that too many great things are on horizon so have to be more selective.

 

 

Couldn't agree more on Photoscenery for England.  Perpetually stuck in one season (with questionable colours), zero autogen to name just a few.  But then on top of that the broken GPS where the developer seemed uninterested/unable to fix the coastline issue.  Suffice to say it was removed pretty damn quick (the DVD's are still to the day being used as coasters!) and replaced with UTX GEX which it turn was replaced by FTX  Also don't get me started on the abysmal VFR airfields series released to compliment it, all I will say is static 747 at Duxford was just being too lazy.  Like Taph, I'm holding back on buying airports (there's only so much money I can blow on flight simming) to pay for global when it is finally with us.

[Andrew 737]

Couldn't agree more on Photoscenery for England. Perpetually stuck in one season (with questionable colours), zero autogen to name just a few. But then on top of that the broken GPS where the developer seemed uninterested/unable to fix the coastline issue. Suffice to say it was removed pretty damn quick (the DVD's are still to the day being used as coasters!) and replaced with UTX GEX which it turn was replaced by FTX Also don't get me started on the abysmal VFR airfields series released to compliment it, all I will say is static 747 at Duxford was just being too lazy. Like Taph, I'm holding back on buying airports (there's only so much money I can blow on flight simming) to pay for global when it is finally with us.

I'm going to eat a few of my very first words (posts even)...

I was so so so looking forward to the UK release; and owning all the other ORBX regions at the time is what set the standard for my expectations. Whilst I had explored the other regions a 'bit' I had never actually been there or more importantly flown there in RW.

I fly out of Cambridge regularly - I train for my PPL there. One gets to know the local area very well and with Photo scenery that is flat, has no seasons etc etc one can still 'feel' the familiarity. I suppose (ignorantly) it was quite a surprise when I installed the UK and loaded my first flight - things seemed very 'unfamiliar', I couldn't find our clubs 'point alpha', things were just different and unfamiliar. Based on that experience I wrote ORBX UK off for VFR (using RW charts) flying and practice for PPL.

Yesterday I plotted a nav on my chart (I have my skills test Tuesday!) and flew it in ORBX on my sons simulator (as mine are all in pieces!!!!). Well after deciding to follow the A14 after take off from runway 05 I found 'point Alpha', I was very pleased, I set my heading bug and got on my track through the centre of 'Point Alpha', very good start indeed. Everything on my chart was there - Grafham water, Bourne airfield, Rushden town and Sywell, all there. I practiced my diversion and again all there, everything I was looking out for was there.

I have been a bit hard on the UK (it does have its warts); sadly now what was going to make it 'familiar' might never happen. I was hoping EGSC would be made along with its surrounding area like the other air fields made, thus making my local area more like I see it RW.

If sales pick up at the 'revised rates' will any consideration be given to more airfields or do the 'new' rates not warrant more new development?

I have nearly all the UK (will buy Popham and Compton Abbas this week) and will buy Scotland too.

IMHO the early promotions of UK products did not help with the long term plan at all - what's done is done.

I wish ORBX well for the future and I hope UK sales pick up for you.

EDIT - I also think making these airfields compatible with other scenery would have helped too, as it represents more value for the money.

[Mike R]

I previously bought photo scenery for UK and it left a lot to be desired, no buildings, trees, airfields that were either sunken or raised. I was very pleased when Orbx chose to develop in UK, I have England, Wales, and Shoreham being retired and on a limited budget, have held back on buying other Orbx UK airports so I could have money for global and other UK regions. The rate of release of product has gone up which means I am still exploring the new area's I have purchased. UK airports are still an interest and will be purchased in the future its just that too many great things are on horizon so have to be more selective.

 

 

Couldn't agree more on Photoscenery for England.  Perpetually stuck in one season (with questionable colours), zero autogen to name just a few.  But then on top of that the broken GPS where the developer seemed uninterested/unable to fix the coastline issue.  Suffice to say it was removed pretty damn quick (the DVD's are still to the day being used as coasters!) and replaced with UTX GEX which it turn was replaced by FTX  Also don't get me started on the abysmal VFR airfields series released to compliment it, all I will say is static 747 at Duxford was just being too lazy.  Like Taph, I'm holding back on buying airports (there's only so much money I can blow on flight simming) to pay for global when it is finally with us.

 

 

I'm with you guys! For me the only place the photo-scenery works in the U.K. is for The Outer Hebridies and Orkney & Shetland as the lack of buildings for autogen doesn't detract due to the desolate landscape. Even then the colours really only look reasonable in bright sunlight weather conditions. There is no doubt however that there are quite a few people who DO think U.K. photo scenery is the Bees knees and I'd hazard a guess that..

 

1.They made a large financial outlay to get full U.K. coverage and don't want to junk their purchase.

 

2.Perhaps the fact that the ORBX airfields don't integrate so well with it means they tend not to buy them?

 

3.They are mainly VFR pilots and that's why they bought the photoscenery in the first place. Therefore they ARE the market that would have bought the ORBX targetted small airfields?

 

Just my theory of course. My suspicion is that had ORBX launched their airfield range by doing Southampton, (I could suggest others), then sales would have been better? I also think that grouping all the airports in the South of England wasn't a good idea and that perhaps an 'airfield pairs' idea with parrallel development of say, Old Warden and Manchester Barton would have attracted more customers by addressing the customer base in the North as well as the South as well as providing airfields that invite a flight between them over varying terrain? 

Before ill health caused me to quit I was a PPL and was fortunate enough to be able to fly my own aircraft over the U.K. from one end to the other. I find that VFR navigation with FTX is perfectly possible and the visual experience is far more realistic than other U.K. landscape representations. However. Please don't shoot me for having a personal opinion as that's exactly what it is. Each to their own.

 

Mike      

[Orgasmatron]

I'm going to eat a few of my very first words (posts even)...

I was so so so looking forward to the UK release; and owning all the other ORBX regions at the time is what set the standard for my expectations. Whilst I had explored the other regions a 'bit' I had never actually been there or more importantly flown there in RW.

I fly out of Cambridge regularly - I train for my PPL there. One gets to know the local area very well and with Photo scenery that is flat, has no seasons etc etc one can still 'feel' the familiarity. I suppose (ignorantly) it was quite a surprise when I installed the UK and loaded my first flight - things seemed very 'unfamiliar', I couldn't find our clubs 'point alpha', things were just different and unfamiliar. Based on that experience I wrote ORBX UK off for VFR (using RW charts) flying and practice for PPL.

Yesterday I plotted a nav on my chart (I have my skills test Tuesday!) and flew it in ORBX on my sons simulator (as mine are all in pieces!!!!). Well after deciding to follow the A14 after take off from runway 05 I found 'point Alpha', I was very pleased, I set my heading bug and got on my track through the centre of 'Point Alpha', very good start indeed. Everything on my chart was there - Grafham water, Bourne airfield, Rushden town and Sywell, all there. I practiced my diversion and again all there, everything I was looking out for was there.

I have been a bit hard on the UK (it does have its warts); sadly now what was going to make it 'familiar' might never happen. I was hoping EGSC would be made along with its surrounding area like the other air fields made, thus making my local area more like I see it RW.

If sales pick up at the 'revised rates' will any consideration be given to more airfields or do the 'new' rates not warrant more new development?

I have nearly all the UK (will buy Popham and Compton Abbas this week) and will buy Scotland too.

IMHO the early promotions of UK products did not help with the long term plan at all - what's done is done.

I wish ORBX well for the future and I hope UK sales pick up for you.

EDIT - I also think making these airfields compatible with other scenery would have helped too, as it represents more value for the money.

 

Good luck with the PPL skills test on Tuesday, I still have very fond memories of doing mine at Stapleford 8 years ago now, how time flies!

 

I'm with you guys! For me the only place the photo-scenery works in the U.K. is for The Outer Hebridies and Orkney & Shetland as the lack of buildings for autogen doesn't detract due to the desolate landscape. Even then the colours really only look reasonable in bright sunlight weather conditions. There is no doubt however that there are quite a few people who DO think U.K. photo scenery is the Bees knees and I'd hazard a guess that..

 

1.They made a large financial outlay to get full U.K. coverage and don't want to junk their purchase.

 

2.Perhaps the fact that the ORBX airfields don't integrate so well with it means they tend not to buy them?

 

3.They are mainly VFR pilots and that's why they bought the photoscenery in the first place. Therefore they ARE the market that would have bought the ORBX targetted small airfields?

 

Just my theory of course. My suspicion is that had ORBX launched their airfield range by doing Southampton, (I could suggest others), then sales would have been better? I also think that grouping all the airports in the South of England wasn't a good idea and that perhaps an 'airfield pairs' idea with parrallel development of say, Old Warden and Manchester Barton would have attracted more customers by addressing the customer base in the North as well as the South as well as providing airfields that invite a flight between them over varying terrain? 

Before ill health caused me to quit I was a PPL and was fortunate enough to be able to fly my own aircraft over the U.K. from one end to the other. I find that VFR navigation with FTX is perfectly possible and the visual experience is far more realistic than other U.K. landscape representations. However. Please don't shoot me for having a personal opinion as that's exactly what it is. Each to their own.

 

Mike      

 

The first thing I did when England was released was find my house  I live in a rather small village in Rural Cambridgeshire, sure enough it didn't look 100% accurate but I wasn't expecting it to.  All the roads are there in their correct positions and sure enough there was Oakington, Cottenham, Histon and all the others in the area.  There's even the hill they like to call Bar Hill too  Though I couldn't find Tesco  Flying the routes I flew doing my PPL (Lydd, Shoreham, Norwich etc) there was certainly a familiarity with the view out the window.

[Mike R]

Good luck with the PPL skills test on Tuesday, I still have very fond memories of doing mine at Stapleford 8 years ago now, how time flies!

 

 

The first thing I did when England was released was find my house  I live in a rather small village in Rural Cambridgeshire, sure enough it didn't look 100% accurate but I wasn't expecting it to.  All the roads are there in their correct positions and sure enough there was Oakington, Cottenham, Histon and all the others in the area.  There's even the hill they like to call Bar Hill too  Though I couldn't find Tesco  Flying the routes I flew doing my PPL (Lydd, Shoreham, Norwich etc) there was certainly a familiarity with the view out the window.

 

Ha ha! Pretty much the same here!  I usually fly airliners within FSX but do love the Islander for flights within the Scottish outer islands for a bit oif variety. My first flight after installation was Shoreham to Edinburgh via a Tea break stop at Gamston! No radio Nav just out of the window VFR and it was just great! Boy! Did it look different when I left the FTX area at the border!

 

Mike

[Andrew 737]

RE skills test:

Thanks Matt - weather looks good too

EDIT - Do you still fly?

[DeeJay]

Well, I could imagine that poor sales of the ENG airfields is also linked to the price. Please don't get me wrong, I've bought a few and I like them all. And probably they can't be done better as you did them. But compared to other airfields released for some other regions an English airfield just seems too little "airport". For example for Popham which is a little grass strip that is hard to find (nothing wrong with that fact alone), I had to pay the same 25€ I paid for places like Jackson Hole, Brisbane or Spokane. Combined with the fact that there is a far smaller photoreal/VFR area than for some other ones (well, maybe it's not "needed" because FTX England is "good enough" ;-) ) it hurts to pay that price, especially with such a big number of airfields in such a short time. Therefore I stopped buying them all at some point. Had they been cheaper (like Longview Ranch at its release) I'm sure I would have bought a lot more.

If I see my personal point of view I don't think UK2000 has lowerd sales. I would even say without UK2000 (with quite reasonable prices for the size of the airports and the quality) I wouldn't have bought FTX ENG or any ENG airfield at all because ONLY flying GA makes no sense to me in a country with so many big airports and such a "monoton" landscape.

Thus I'm looking forward for Scotland and for some ORBX airport releases there because I think this area has more potential in "landscape" and thus for VFR flying and smaller airports.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Best regards,

Dominik

[Mike R]

RE skills test:

Thanks Matt - weather looks good too

EDIT - Do you still fly?

 

By the way. Sorry Andrew! I meant to add good luck for the skills test. I'm sure you'll breeze through as you've put the planning in. My favourite instructor 'rule' always was the 'six P's'.......

Proper Planning Prevent P**s Poor Performance

 

Mike

[Orgasmatron]

RE skills test:

Thanks Matt - weather looks good too

EDIT - Do you still fly?

 

 

You're welocme.  Unfortunately not any more I also had the pleasure of those nice people at Aviation House taking away my medical 3 weeks after taking the last of the exams for the ATPL, and to just rub it in even more a few weeks later they still sent me the notification that I passed all the exams.

[Mike R]

You're welocme.  Unfortunately not any more I also had the pleasure of those nice people at Aviation House taking away my medical 3 weeks after taking the last of the exams for the ATPL, and to just rub it in even more a few weeks later they still sent me the notification that I passed all the exams.

 

Crikey Matt! That's just awful! At least I managed to get a career in holding a class 1 and 20+ years of PPL flying before health caught up with me!

 

Mike

[Andrew 737]

By the way. Sorry Andrew! I meant to add good luck for the skills test. I'm sure you'll breeze through as you've put the planning in. My favourite instructor 'rule' always was the 'six P's'.......

Proper Planning Prevent P**s Poor Performance

Mike

Thanks - its nerves'll do me in!

I've been revising and practicing all weekend on the sim - procedures etc

Yes I agree 6 p's

You're welocme. Unfortunately not any more I also had the pleasure of those nice people at Aviation House taking away my medical 3 weeks after taking the last of the exams for the ATPL, and to just rub it in even more a few weeks later they still sent me the notification that I passed all the exams.

So sorry to hear that Matt

I'm on borrowed time too; already lost my medical once (last year) for 8 months - I will make the most of it while I can

If I pass I will PM you see if you wanna come for a ride:)

[Trevor Hannant]

I think a few people have hit the nail on the head with regards to flying between the airfields developed so far.

 

In PNW, we've been spoiled by outstanding landscape scenery between the airfields.  In England, it's been a pretty flat-ish open landscape between them.  Flat lands = less interesting flights.

 

Does that mean that ORBX have been a victim of their own success?  Hmmm, very possibly.  I think also that UK flying activity is significantly different to that elsewhere - there's a lot of "tin tubers" who fly here although not in necessarily large aircraft.  The idea of picking up some of the regional airports would possibly help - places like Aberdeen, Inverness and Prestwick aren't available as top quality add-ons (Dundee isn't and you've included that).  In England you have Norwich, Southampton, Bournemouth, Blackpool that are not yet done.  The issue there though is all of these are on UK2000's to-do list so you would need to make headway on these soon in order to capture that market while it's still there.

[John Venema]

Well well, this has sparked some debate hasn't it?

 

Let me clarify a few things.

 

We won't commit to any long term airports roadmap anymore. You the customers, have spoken with your wallets and we need to pick and choose much more wisely for many reasons. The main focus will be on the *right* mix of GA/Q400/NGX airports which span *all* of the UK not just the SE/SW and which provide for the best most immersive flying experience in the British Isles and Ireland, and then across to Europe with FTX Global.

 

$32.95 grass strips covering 20km sq is not a sweet spot for you guys. We'll cop than on the chin, and the prices as of today reflect that and those strips are now sub £15 which I hope will generate a few more sales to make the developers' efforts worth while. Enough said about that.

 

As for Horizon or photoreal products, we are not in their competitive space. I went into the UK market with my eyes wide open and knew that we would not appeal to those simmers who favour photoreal accuracy over landclass based products; the differences have been debated ad infinitum - we give you five seasons, full autogen, lighting, traffic, POIs, consistent colouring and much more - to mainly appeal to those who want immersion and fun versus 100% accuracy. Orbx has never tried to compete with photoreal products and having sold 500,000 products in five years is a testament that our strategy is sound.

 

We also respect Gary Summons' space with his airports; they are not designed to showcase the latest and greatest shadow-baked AO occlusion super modeling and peopleflow/grass/statics.. tech - they do an adequate  job for a cheap price and he has that market sewn up for his audience who believe that is good enough for them. However, Orbx has always believed that faith reproductions showcasing total immersion and the best available tech is a premium worth paying for, and this has also been borne out with very profitable sales of our airports in other parts of the world.

 

I did say a while back we would move away from heavy mega airports; FT, FSDT, Flighbeam and Aerosoft own that market and we don't want to compete with them (rather we are cooperating with them, if anything). What we want to establish is a good blend of super atmospheric GA airports, Q400 capable regionals, and also NGX ready airports that don't take 12 months to develop. EGFF Cardiff is an example of how working with an established quality team like 29Palms can yield excellent results; for this reason Lars is almost done with Southampton and will tackle Aberdeen, the Shetlands and we're even talking about an EU airport which we'll announce in due course.

 

In the same way, Jarrad Marshall has a proven record in medium sized airports that fit the Q400/NGX flyer and he's right now in the USA doing photography and scouting further locations along the western half of the country.

 

So we will find a balance, admit our errant strategy and price positioning, and fine tune the strategy whilst listen to our customers. But we won't stray from our core philosophy which is to make you feel you're *at* the airport totally immersed in it; that's been our mission from day one and we won't compromise on that. 

 

Thanks for all the detailed responses in this thread and I can assure you the whole team has read every post and taken it all on board.

 

Safe skies!

[Andrew 737]

One word John

FANTASTIC

[bonchie]

Juneau might be a good option for that kind of airport.

 

That entire approach / surrounding area is just amazing. It's got a large GA/Seaplane base but also handles commerical (NGX included). To me, that's the kind of mix that would probably sell the best. Something for everyone to enjoy plane wise with beautiful scenery and a challenging approach (hard right turn into the runway to avoid terrain) but it's small enough to develop in a few months vs. a year.

[Orgasmatron]

Crikey Matt! That's just awful! At least I managed to get a career in holding a class 1 and 20+ years of PPL flying before health caught up with me!

 

Mike

 

Wasn't the nicest of experiences, but it didn't kill me so one would assume it made me stronger lol.  I've still got all the memories of flying and fortunately the CAA can't takes those away, let

 

Thanks - its nerves'll do me in!

I've been revising and practicing all weekend on the sim - procedures etc

Yes I agree 6 p's

So sorry to hear that Matt

I'm on borrowed time too; already lost my medical once (last year) for 8 months - I will make the most of it while I can

If I pass I will PM you see if you wanna come for a ride:)

 

Ahh yes the nerves on skill test day, they certainly make you more aware.  Re the ride, thanks very much, you wont need to ask twice

 

I think a few people have hit the nail on the head with regards to flying between the airfields developed so far.

 

In PNW, we've been spoiled by outstanding landscape scenery between the airfields.  In England, it's been a pretty flat-ish open landscape between them.  Flat lands = less interesting flights.

 

Does that mean that ORBX have been a victim of their own success?  Hmmm, very possibly.  I think also that UK flying activity is significantly different to that elsewhere - there's a lot of "tin tubers" who fly here although not in necessarily large aircraft.  The idea of picking up some of the regional airports would possibly help - places like Aberdeen, Inverness and Prestwick aren't available as top quality add-ons (Dundee isn't and you've included that).  In England you have Norwich, Southampton, Bournemouth, Blackpool that are not yet done.  The issue there though is all of these are on UK2000's to-do list so you would need to make headway on these soon in order to capture that market while it's still there.

 

England being a rather small country and most of it being some what flat countryside I guess for some wont make the best of flying experiences specially those who haven't been fortunate enough to actually fly over the UK in a GA type aircraft.  I full agree with you on the airports, hindsight is a wonderful tool.

[Trevor Hannant]

Thanks John for the update - it's this sort of thing that sets ORBX apart, the willingness to listen to customers and change to suit rather than just blindly marching forward.

[britfrog]

Thanks for listening to constructive criticism, I am sure I speak for everyone who has added to this thread, that we wish you lots of success in changing the goal posts, it is a difficult time financially , personally I thought you would have got better sales for the UK products but I suppose there is a larger than expected percentage of tube flyers, it will be interesting to see how Southampton sells.

[John Venema]

Juneau might be a good option for that kind of airport.

 

That entire approach / surrounding area is just amazing. It's got a large GA/Seaplane base but also handles commerical (NGX included). To me, that's the kind of mix that would probably sell the best. Something for everyone to enjoy plane wise with beautiful scenery and a challenging approach (hard right turn into the runway to avoid terrain) but it's small enough to develop in a few months vs. a year.

 

PAJN Juneau is almost ready for beta, it's being developed by Russ White and will be released next month; preview shots very soon!

[kevinfirth]

Well well, this has sparked some debate hasn't it?

 

Let me clarify a few things.

 

We won't commit to any long term airports roadmap anymore. You the customers, have spoken with your wallets and we need to pick and choose much more wisely for many reasons. The main focus will be on the *right* mix of GA/Q400/NGX airports which span *all* of the UK not just the SE/SW and which provide for the best most immersive flying experience in the British Isles and Ireland, and then across to Europe with FTX Global.

 

$32.95 grass strips covering 20km sq is not a sweet spot for you guys. We'll cop than on the chin, and the prices as of today reflect that and those strips are now sub £15 which I hope will generate a few more sales to make the developers' efforts worth while. Enough said about that.

 

As for Horizon or photoreal products, we are not in their competitive space. I went into the UK market with my eyes wide open and knew that we would not appeal to those simmers who favour photoreal accuracy over landclass based products; the differences have been debated ad infinitum - we give you five seasons, full autogen, lighting, traffic, POIs, consistent colouring and much more - to mainly appeal to those who want immersion and fun versus 100% accuracy. Orbx has never tried to compete with photoreal products and having sold 500,000 products in five years is a testament that our strategy is sound.

 

We also respect Gary Summons' space with his airports; they are not designed to showcase the latest and greatest shadow-baked AO occlusion super modeling and peopleflow/grass/statics.. tech - they do an adequate  job for a cheap price and he has that market sewn up for his audience who believe that is good enough for them. However, Orbx has always believed that faith reproductions showcasing total immersion and the best available tech is a premium worth paying for, and this has also been borne out with very profitable sales of our airports in other parts of the world.

 

I did say a while back we would move away from heavy mega airports; FT, FSDT, Flighbeam and Aerosoft own that market and we don't want to compete with them (rather we are cooperating with them, if anything). What we want to establish is a good blend of super atmospheric GA airports, Q400 capable regionals, and also NGX ready airports that don't take 12 months to develop. EGFF Cardiff is an example of how working with an established quality team like 29Palms can yield excellent results; for this reason Lars is almost done with Southampton and will tackle Aberdeen, the Shetlands and we're even talking about an EU airport which we'll announce in due course.

 

So we will find a balance, admit our errant strategy and price positioning, and fine tune the strategy whilst listen to our customers. But we won't stray from our core philosophy which is to make you feel you're *at* the airport totally immersed in it; that's been our mission from day one and we won't compromise on that. 

 

Thanks for all the detailed responses in this thread and I can assure you the whole team has read every post and taken it all on board.

 

Safe skies!

 

Can't argue with the points being taken on board at all. thankyou.   I understand the not being in competition with photoscenery point, I've never wanted to view it in that way, but it's tieing airfields into the region that makes it like that.  Those of us who do use it though would love the airfields to fit with what we use as well.  Dead horse, won't flog that any more....

 

Anyway, I've picked up Elstree as a punt now, and will see how that works for me with my setup..  I want to support your uk developers, while the price cut is obviously welcome the cost is kind of secondary to whether they work for me but it would be churlish not to have a look and see given the circumstances.

 

Cheers

k

[John Venema]

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for taking a punt on an airport, it's very much appreciated!

I also recommend you download and install the latest Orbxlibs with Elstree to ensure you have the right objects etc. Never hurts.

As far as re-doing all the photoreal ground components of the seven UK airports to suit Horizon VFR, that is not planned nor feasible given the amount of work involved to colour and tone match to photoreal which is variable in colour and tint at the best of times depending on the location . I also think the amount of autogen trees and buildings we add to the surrounds would look decidedly odd with such a flat landscape around it.

[britfrog]

John I will also pick up elstree at the new price,

however a technical question:

having flown out of elstree lots of times in reality I know that the first part is quite uphill in fact you cant see the runway from the bomb hole, why cannot this be reproduced by FtX?

 

and on the subject of future airfields in europe:

why not look at ryanscares network many of their airports meet your criteria of being used by small airliners and vfr a/c

I have flown throughout france in my aztec and know of a few decent grass airports here as well if you need some ideas

[kevinfirth]

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for taking a punt on an airport, it's very much appreciated!

I also recommend you download and install the latest Orbxlibs with Elstree to ensure you have the right objects etc. Never hurts.

As far as re-doing all the photoreal ground components of the seven UK airports to suit Horizon VFR, that is not planned nor feasible given the amount of work involved to colour and tone match to photoreal which is variable in colour and tint at the best of times depending on the location . I also think the amount of autogen trees and buildings we add to the surrounds would look decidedly odd with such a flat landscape around it.

 

Will do.  I certainly wouldn't expect you to rework all the colours to match the photoscenery anyway, they're not that far out anyway and I can live with the marginal differences, our hobby is all about compromise at one level or another.  Autogen isn't as bad as you might think, certainly with Treescapes, and it's not difficult to add some buildings in where critical using the SDK anyway.  The only issue really is the autogen trees and buildings you add are only visible if the airfield is used in conjunction with a copy of FTX-England IIRC, which photoscenery users will more than likely not have   I need to play around with it some more to see what I can make happen...

 

Flat landscapes may not be flat for all of eternity, my (quite possibly misplaced) faith is in Earth Simulations' autogenesis project but I will settle for some missing buildings until the holy grail materialises...

 

Cheers

k

[purduekev]

$32.95 grass strips covering 20km sq is not a sweet spot for you guys. We'll cop than on the chin, and the prices as of today reflect that and those strips are now sub £15 which I hope will generate a few more sales to make the developers' efforts worth while. Enough said about that...

 

...

 

As for Horizon or photoreal products, we are not in their competitive space. I went into the UK market with my eyes wide open and knew that we would not appeal to those simmers who favour photoreal accuracy over landclass based products; the differences have been debated ad infinitum - we give you five seasons, full autogen, lighting, traffic, POIs, consistent colouring and much more - to mainly appeal to those who want immersion and fun versus 100% accuracy. Orbx has never tried to compete with photoreal products and having sold 500,000 products in five years is a testament that our strategy is sound...

 

...

 

So we will find a balance, admit our errant strategy and price positioning, and fine tune the strategy whilst listen to our customers. But we won't stray from our core philosophy which is to make you feel you're *at* the airport totally immersed in it; that's been our mission from day one and we won't compromise on that.

 

John:

 

To show that your change in pricing on the UK airports is sound, I picked up Elstree and Stapleford last night...  I was not inclined to add more UK airports, as the value for those small fields just didn't compare to the NA airports in terms of the size of the surrounding area that is treated, and as has been noted the scenery in the south of England in between those areas lacks comparable variety to NA or NZ or even Scotland or Ireland (don't get me wrong, the south of England is beautiful country and Orbx has captured it perfectly, but it is hard to compete with PNW, PFJ, SAK or NZ for dramatic impact!).  I picked those two (EGSG and EGTR) to add due to their proximity to London and their relative size for the type of aircraft you can fly in there. 

 

As for comparison to photoreal products, count me as one who flies almost exclusively in Orbx areas precisely because of the "immersion and fun" philosophy you have always followed.  I enjoy flying lots of low-level VFR, and so flat photoreal scenery holds zero interest to me.  I do like flying the bigger aircraft from time to time, but when I do I like the immersion that Orbx provides at the departure and destination airports.

 

For me, whether I choose an airport has a lot do with having somewhere interesting to fly TO and IN.  One can only fly circuits in the pattern for so long

 

Thanks!

[SGunard]

As far as re-doing all the photoreal ground components of the seven UK airports to suit Horizon VFR, that is not planned nor feasible given the amount of work involved to colour and tone match to photoreal which is variable in colour and tint at the best of times depending on the location . I also think the amount of autogen trees and buildings we add to the surrounds would look decidedly odd with such a flat landscape around it.

 

Well, no more odd than UK2000 airfields look, and since most of us photoscenery users use Treescapes it's a moot point.

 

In any case this is disappointing news. Would it really be so much work? Gary has managed to achieve this with scores of airfields and he's pretty much a one man band (?).

 

As it happens, Popham and Compton Abbas are both airports that I have visited and spent time at and I would love to add them to my collection. But the bottom line is that I will not buy any UK airport at all unless it is photoscenery compatible. I've too much money invested in photoscenery/UK2000/Treescapes to chuck it all.

[John Venema]

Then you're not a target for our products Steve, and we respect your position entirely.

[jrrbolkin]

I've tried a few Photo real areas and I admit its horses for courses in this genre, as in any other walk of life,I personally much prefer the orbx approach.You get the best of both worlds ie low n slow and high flying both look great with ORBX.

I can see why, if you are already using many photo-real areas it would be expensive to suddenly re purchase the same areas/regions or airports again.I for one I only briefly flirted with photo real and will now only fly ORBX regions.I just can't see the benefits of anything else.

Gary

[davenicoll]

 

As for Horizon or photoreal products, we are not in their competitive space. I went into the UK market with my eyes wide open and knew that we would not appeal to those simmers who favour photoreal accuracy over landclass based products; the differences have been debated ad infinitum - we give you five seasons, full autogen, lighting, traffic, POIs, consistent colouring and much more - to mainly appeal to those who want immersion and fun versus 100% accuracy. Orbx has never tried to compete with photoreal products and having sold 500,000 products in five years is a testament that our strategy is sound.

 

 

Whilst it is true that I prefer Photoreal scenery under my wings, especially as I know the UK very well and know what should be where and can fly "Real VFR" it is a big shame that ORBX fields are not compatible with any other scenery as I thing there is an untapped market there. I for one would love to have ORBX fields coupled with my Photoscenery. I don't know how much work is required to make them compatible but I feel there would certainly be a boost in sales if done.