Jon Clarke Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I will be in the minority I know but I am underwhelmed at the lack of "fixes" in SP1 versus being overwhelmed by the additional eye candy POIs. More time and effort should have been made to FIX first and then utilise resources and manhours to add POIs. Darker roads...OK nice, new nightlighting....OK but free 3rd party mods can deal with that and no lighting to the main Canary Wharf buildings....bad. No road traffic on bridges....bad. Bridges not aligned to the mainland...bad. Autogen/Objects removed from default airports....good, but shouldn't have been there in the first place. Almost 5 months of work since the initial release of TEGB South and many of the early Bug Reports have not been attended to in a satisfactory manner. The time taken for SP1 clearly seems to have been in regard to modelling POIs and not fixes. The POIs are appreciated but were not as important as correcting the anomalies that were reported in the initial release. SP1 seems to be more of a TEGB South version 2 with more features rather than a Service Pack to eliminate or remedy errors/Bugs that were reported and Noted by Orbx for rework. Just my opinion and probably alone but SP1 to me was not what I was looking for. It is a good v2 of TEGB South with errors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigeaglefire Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 54 minutes ago, jjaycee1 said: I will be in the minority I know but I am underwhelmed at the lack of "fixes" in SP1 versus being overwhelmed by the additional eye candy POIs. Hi JJ, i am very impressed with your XP11 knowledge... personally, i am happy with any progress with TEGBS SP1 - & guess what? the Orbx team are obviously stretching resources to bring us these welcome updates... where i am at - there will be P3Dv4.5 (just gotta be patient) - there will be XP12 (just gotta be patient) - &, when the TEGB series pays for itself - i feel there will most likely be a set of SP2's - jeez, i am so happy with what i have with the TE GB series so far - & yes, i have purchased extra GB XP11 Orbx airports, just to keep the Orbx $R&D funds rollin' along... simply stated, the amount of modelling Orbx has provided is 'off the scale' compared with anything else available right now, March 2019 - & especially at the $price point... however, JJ, your considered opinions are important - & i am sure the Orbx team will give them consideration - whilst balancing all the Orbx projects in the roadmap for competing development resources... best regards, craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Clarke Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 @craigeaglefireThank you Craig. I agree with your statements about the amount of modeling and the greatly appreciated cost that Orbx has put into it for a very reasonable retail price. I have been an Orbx customer since 2008 and have the vast majority of their FSX/P3D addons so my support for them is unquestionable. Now they have entered the XP market and are on a steep learning curve in regard to developing addons for that sim. They are very fortunate to have been able to get @tonywob on to their team as his knowledge and addons for XP in his non Orbx life are remarkable. I honestly believe that without Tony Orbx would have struggled to provide TEGB to a satisfactory level. However TEGB has it's faults which is understandable but my main criticism of the SP is that it has not dealt with the main fixes. If the reported bugs are not fixable then it would be prudent for Orbx to state so and people like me would be more understanding and less critical, but many of these Bugs are fixable. This in my opinion was not a Service Pack but a revised version with additional modelled POIs ( yes a huge number of them and thank you for that) and some additional features like PBR and darker roads. I look forward to a Service Pack 2 dealing with the many reported bugs, and/or a comment from Orbx as to which of those bugs are currently not solvable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigeaglefire Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 9 minutes ago, jjaycee1 said: been an Orbx customer since 2008 that’s exactly why your considered opinions count, JJ you are precise in your critiques - I have only been flight simming since mid 2017 & Orbx products are the lion’s share of my $investment - very happy I made a sensible choice... cheers, craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flsm (Frank) Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Yep, pros and cons, but overall I absolutely love it. Look forward to further corrections and additions over time. Hope those with an eye for detail keep on letting orbx know where things need fixing. Given the high complexity and low cost, I reackon orbx are doing a great job. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david broome Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I agree with the overall sentiment but at the same time find it hard to be too critical of OrbX. I think I am more surprised by the lack of fixes to what were very prominent bugs in the first instalment but also by the amount of extra content and improvements made. The night lighting and roads are big improvements and obviously the new custom objects and improvements make a big difference but basic issues that were reported in the original release remain. Think I will draw up a list that people can add to so as everything is in one place and not overlooked. Hope OrbX don't see as this as being ungrateful for all the incredible work they have put into SP1, these bugs and oversights when fixed will put OrbX in a very good place for future releases as they get better and better at utilising the Xplane engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Clarke Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 Agree David and have seen your new post with the Bug List. I don't think it is unfair to criticise the SP because we all appreciate greatly the hard work and man/woman (gotta be PC) hours that have gone into the new v2 TEGB South. It is the fixes I wanted before all the eye candy. It would probably have been relatively quick, in comparison to the 4 months of SP1, to have attended to the fixes. Then release the fixes as SP1, then get the focus on adding all the new and appreciated POIs, road texture, PBR and night lighting done as a separate TEGB South Update, not SP. Anyway I just want to reiterate that I am enjoying the contents of v2 and am not criticising the work that was done. I am however criticising the work that was not done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longranger241 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 11 hours ago, jjaycee1 said: No road traffic on bridges....bad. Bridges not aligned to the mainland...bad. Well road traffic on bridges is in fact a general problem of X-Plane and the current solutions are mainly compromises. The main solutions I have seen: Ground Traffic on the bridges is really no solution for a big region, since you get one additional Ground Traffic process per bridge. And even SAM is no so0lution at this time. And since Laminar already talked about changes in the collicion detection with the switch to Vulkan this is a likely candidate for improvements by Laminar. And bridges allignment is also a difficult topic, since we have X-Plane 11 and P3Dv4 with a different mesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Clarke Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 8 hours ago, Longranger241 said: Well road traffic on bridges is in fact a general problem of X-Plane and the current solutions are mainly compromises. The main solutions I have seen: Ground Traffic on the bridges is really no solution for a big region, since you get one additional Ground Traffic process per bridge. And even SAM is no so0lution at this time. And since Laminar already talked about changes in the collicion detection with the switch to Vulkan this is a likely candidate for improvements by Laminar. And bridges allignment is also a difficult topic, since we have X-Plane 11 and P3Dv4 with a different mesh. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I am now better informed regarding the nuances of XP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigeaglefire Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 JJ, this Vulkan thing sounds really cool... will that be XP11.5 or XP12? however, it seems like it is looming my friend! we can only guess what Orbx will come up for us then... jeez, i feel like i have completely got my $money's worth so far from ALL of Orbx TEGB - very happy to let the Orbx experts let us know the next phase of development... frankly, from what i have tested & seen so far, Orbx TEGB is a masterpiece - very $affordable - & under constant development... indeed, a flight sim 2019 'Collectors' Item' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wroblewski Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 There are in fact a lot of fixes that went into SP1, but as pointed out in other posts, some things such as traffic on custom POI bridges are simply not possible yet in X-Plane with the tech currently out there, and it would have to be developed which takes time. Regarding night lighting in London, this again is something that is being worked on over time, but SP1 won't be the last update to the series and there will be further improvements and more fixes. Many of these fixes will make it into future TE products as well. Whilst it may appear that I'm just making excuses, in a product of this size there will inevitably be issues and compatibility problems, some on the surface may seem easy fixes but they are anything but that, e.g. Mesh fixes are not as easy to fix as they are in P3D due to fundamental limitations in the sim at present, and reported problems such as roads being too wide etc are something that only Laminar Research can help us with as it's a fundamental part of the sim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunRingill Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Thank you very much for SP1! @tonywob I was just wondering about the decals. In an other thread you mentioned that there perhaps could be a toogle switch to turn them on or off (if I remember correctly)? Helicopter pilots need them to judge altitude for example but I fly GA VFR at say 3000 ft and I find the stripes across the landscape quite distracting on some occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Clarke Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 1 hour ago, tonywob said: There are in fact a lot of fixes that went into SP1, but as pointed out in other posts, some things such as traffic on custom POI bridges are simply not possible yet in X-Plane with the tech currently out there, and it would have to be developed which takes time. Regarding night lighting in London, this again is something that is being worked on over time, but SP1 won't be the last update to the series and there will be further improvements and more fixes. Many of these fixes will make it into future TE products as well. Whilst it may appear that I'm just making excuses, in a product of this size there will inevitably be issues and compatibility problems, some on the surface may seem easy fixes but they are anything but that, e.g. Mesh fixes are not as easy to fix as they are in P3D due to fundamental limitations in the sim at present, and reported problems such as roads being too wide etc are something that only Laminar Research can help us with as it's a fundamental part of the sim. Thank you @tonywob Your explanations are exactly what i was looking for. Oh and yes, you are "just making excuses" Your comments are the type of response that I among others appreciate as it explains why things are as they are. If i had known what you have told me now, I would have been less critical in regard to the perceived lack of attention to fixes. The transparency in communication is greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flsm (Frank) Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 hours ago, tonywob said: There are in fact a lot of fixes that went into SP1, but as pointed out in other posts, some things such as traffic on custom POI bridges are simply not possible yet in X-Plane with the tech currently out there, and it would have to be developed which takes time. Regarding night lighting in London, this again is something that is being worked on over time, but SP1 won't be the last update to the series and there will be further improvements and more fixes. Many of these fixes will make it into future TE products as well. Whilst it may appear that I'm just making excuses, in a product of this size there will inevitably be issues and compatibility problems, some on the surface may seem easy fixes but they are anything but that, e.g. Mesh fixes are not as easy to fix as they are in P3D due to fundamental limitations in the sim at present, and reported problems such as roads being too wide etc are something that only Laminar Research can help us with as it's a fundamental part of the sim. Tony, if I am asking too much with this question, please say so and then ignore it. On the XP Org Forum there are mixed comments about TE, although I think the majority are favourable. I am singing the praises of TE on the Org as much as I can because I love it. If you could provide a bit of a layman’s explanation as to how TE is produced, that would be a great help, in particular: what sources of photoscenery are used; is ortho4xp used; what are the zoom levels; besides the great POIs, what are the main advantages of TE over doing your own ortho4xp? Anything else you can think of to encourage people to buy TE rather than doing your own thing would be handy. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigeaglefire Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 3 hours ago, flsm (Frank) said: Anything else you can think of to encourage people to buy TE rather than doing your own thing would be handy very simple really, it's called scenery Overlays... & Orbx TE GB is the absolute best in the flight sim business - & i am a beginner in understanding all this modelling detail... Ortho4XP will give you FLAT textures - can be good in certain cases - however, non-modelled 3D data - to put it simply (& there are tricks, but no way of getting around actual handmade/crafted adjustments)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Clarke Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 The main advantages are the very accurate Overlays which place authentic UK style housing, woodlands and forests plus the POIs.. Compared to a generic Orho4XP Overlay you would get thinly spread trees shotgun splattered all over the place and generic buildings. Colour matching is another TE advantage. If you look at all the available Orho4XP source providers like GO2, Bing, EOX plus Zone Photo, you will not find any source offering cloud free and colour matched scenery. They all have either, and, or colour mismatches, like dark shade colour then light shade colour, and/or cloud imprints. None of those are in TE because they have been photoshopped out and reworked. Regarding if Orbx used Ortho4XP only they will be able to inform you, but I do know the thread and posts that @flsm (Frank) is referring to on the ,Org site where one poster claimed he had "insider" info that Ortho4xp was used. But then again that could be as the Trumpster says...fake news I believe the zoom levels were 17. @craigeaglefire not sure what you mean by Flat Textures Craig. Are you saying that no mesh detail is available? If so you're incorrect, but maybe you didn't mean that. Ortho4xp will provide very detailed mesh. Below is a pic showing my Ortho over Europe with highly detailed mesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigeaglefire Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 7 hours ago, jjaycee1 said: not sure what you mean by Flat Textures Craig. Are you saying that no mesh detail is available? very good post, JJ & i like your screenshot, good topography... as there will most likely never be a True Earth Australia, i will share some excellent results i have had with Ortho4XP ZL17 (using HD Mesh V4 donationware overlay data)... approaching my new home town approaching previous hometown Kata Tjuta Orbx Broome blended with Ortho4XP - works well i wish i had all the Orbx Australian airports in XP11 & plus Canberra & Gold Coast CityScapes and any others down the track... however, it would be crazy to produce my own London - because Orbx has the absolute best available overlays with custom modelling... Orbx True Earth GB is a masterpiece of work & collaboration! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wroblewski Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 12 hours ago, jjaycee1 said: Regarding if Orbx used Ortho4XP only they will be able to inform you, but I do know the thread and posts that @flsm (Frank) is referring to on the ,Org site where one poster claimed he had "insider" info that Ortho4xp was used. But then again that could be as the Trumpster says...fake news I believe the zoom levels were 17. "Insider info" hmmm, all one has to do is open the manual and go to the credits page to have this answered :-). Any datasources and third-party tools used are listed in the credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flsm (Frank) Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 3 hours ago, tonywob said: "Insider info" hmmm, all one has to do is open the manual and go to the credits page to have this answered :-). Any datasources and third-party tools used are listed in the credits. Thanks Tony, by referring us to the User Guide you have (indirectly) answered my post above, unless there is anything else you would like to add to complete your answer. Love your work. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Clarke Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 3 hours ago, tonywob said: "Insider info" hmmm, all one has to do is open the manual and go to the credits page to have this answered :-). Any datasources and third-party tools used are listed in the credits. Tony, just reading the credits is nowhere near as covert as saying "insider" info. The writer was obviously wanting to appear a bit "special" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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