macca22au Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Never kept promises, but not Orbx so relax. In fact Orbx has got the business of handling release dates down to a fine art, so we customers know where they and we are. But at the moment there is three maybe four Airbus 320 or thereabouts series developments that have been promised or over-promised, and which still have not been released and each new date passed is supported by a legion of flamethrowing warriors.. JV could you run a tutorial for the industry on how to handle the whole release date issue, so as to maintain confidence while at the same time not make promises that can't be kept. There is one developer preparing a Triple 7, but as they totally ignore the customer, at least we know where we stand. A sort of perverse comfort! signed: browned off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeesAndButterflies Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 JV could you run a tutorial Excellent one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydor Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Ian, Can you possibly name the producers of the up and comming 320, 777 ect., so I can keep track of progress with each please? I am following the ongoing Aerosoft 320.. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Venema Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Well I did say last year that in 2012 we'll only show preview screenshots once products are in beta and not far from release. We went down the path of "roadmaps" and posting alpha shots but it just raises expectations and causes disappointment. We also don't ever post release dates, because we know that despite the best intentions, projects can and usually do slip. I guess the only exception to that has been CityScape Canberra, but that has turned out to be a mighty labour of love for Maurizio and Antonio and a one-off; we'll never tackle a large photoreal area like that ever again. That said, when it is released it will be a classic, I've no doubt about that whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca22au Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Thanks JV Jaydor, rather than name devs on an open thread, I'll PM you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca22au Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Oh what the heck, I will stick my neck out. Mods I am certain I have not flamed or defamed, simply commented on matters as they stand. Aerosoft is the one giving the most grief, although we can expect some sort of news in the coming week. PMDG is building the B777 but they have learned to only show beta photos and won't mislead with estimated release dates. On the other hand they have an army of fanboys ready to flame anyone who dares raise a whimper. However we can expect it to be the market leader in fidelity and quality - sometime! BlackBox Simulations have released a version of their A320/319, called the Prologue, but have not released a promised upgrade version let alone a version 1.0 Airsim, have an FSX version of their A320 on the go, but it seems to be in suspended animation. FSLabs claims to have the best 320 ever but say nothing and seem to have released no teasers except blank screen templates. and Captain Sim has released v0.9 of a B777 that is basically impressive, but very buggy, and the last 1% or .1 I suspect is going to take a long time to clean up. A good A320 is hard to build because FSX/P3D is not well coded to allow FBW so a lot of ingenuity and time has had to go into the task. But the raised then dashed hopes have become wearying. The old Wilco/Feelthere 2 volume Airbus series re-released in the EVO version with both FSX and P3D installers is still a good substitute until one of the others is finally released as a finished version. Meanwhile Majestic Software has promised a Q400 for FSX/P3D but I have stopped checking their site because nothing ever seemed to happen, and a professional quality Dash 8 is needed so maybe I will be proved wrong. Meanwhile the warmed over Flight 1 ATR 72 is still good - although the PMDG J41 is the top of the pops, but I personally hate the engines (not the model). it is well understood why all this has come about. Developing for a relatively small market means that part releases for cash flow purposes and creating market loyalties is a good tactic. But with heavy irony let me say most of these part releases have left us up in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgutteri Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I thought the Aerosoft A320 was already released, or are they doing a follow up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack the Swede in Spain Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Guys, if you REALLY want to know what lies, promises, smoke screens (you name it) are, find out about the Angle of Attack PMDG737 NGX training videos!!!!! That is a really a joke! JJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca22au Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 James you are correct; that is the Airbus X, but Aerosoft are soon, they say, and have said three times over nearly a year that they are about to release the Airbus X Extended - vastly upgraded from the 'light' version that is X. And JJJ I long gave up waiting for those videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy UK Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Hahaha i love it. JV is the man;-). You probably got enough on with us lot John without dealing with other companies fans haha. Nice one guys. Its a frustrating hobby at times without going into the FSX config haha. Im not even startin on that one:-). Jimmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeesAndButterflies Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 By the way, I should have mentioned that : http://airdailyx.blogspot.fr/2012/10/best-practices-in-flight-simulation.html . Sounds like a good idea, but not sure wether it is actually alive or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utley Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Remember - DCS: Fast Jet is still in the works....3 years later after having been announced...and we still dont know what aircraft they are modelling, aside from a P-51 and a [sarcasm] UH-1H Jet Fighter. [/end sarcasm] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptru Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Friend of mine, who's also SW developer told me once that there is an easy helper to say a proper estimate: When you guess it'll take week it'll take month. When you guess it'll take month it'll take a quarter. If you think it'll take a quarter it'll take a year. And if you guess it'll take a year, highly likely this will be never done... Unfortunately, he's right in almost 100% cases... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyxx Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Ian your not quite up to speed with what is happening or what is not happening. First the good news but I cannot give links. Majestic Software Q400 For the first time in fsx the flight model is done out side of fsx (not just bits like A2A)and well could be and I think it will be a ground braking aircraft. All the updates are done on there facebook site. Lots of SS and vidios and the good news it's been in beta for around 3 weeks now. This is my #1 must buy. PMDG Bless them, after there 14 months late saga of the NGX like you said don't do release dates any more well they did not do them before . But they said and the post is still there, that there DC-6 would see us all flying her "soon" that was Feb....."soon"!!!. Also they said the NGX was a building model for all new planes and hinted that the 777 would take around 6 months if you read between the lines. We are up-to around 14 months atm. The Airbus from Aerosoft I could go on but I due understand that developing software by its nature can have "delays". All any have to due is say "we are doing this and will update you every 6 weeks on how it's going" update are great to read and see. Don't need release dates until close(Aerosoft aside). ORBX and the UK is great we get a taste and know it's around 6 weeks out. Works well for me. Why other like to hint/tell us you can have it "soon" and wonder why people get a bit upset is a lol to me. Just think if your boss, if you have one(I don't) said you can have a holiday "soon" and 10 months later you still did not get one....happy days......not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 A380, 787 ....it happens in the real world too. you want a sim...the development also reflects the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgutteri Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 That's interesting about Aerosoft's Extended Airbus. Maybe they decided not to compete with Flight Sim Labs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca22au Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 No it's coming out 'soon'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Watson Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Aerosofts new Twin Otter is coming along nicely and the PMDG DC 6 will be worth the wait. Those are the two I am looking forward to the most, and they will fit in with Orbx Scenery perfectly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydor Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Ian, thank you for your reply; and interesting reading from all the other persons who have input in the thread.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qantas747 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 What I really think was a smart move is what flytampa did with their new dubai rebooted. No one knew about, they completed it, and once they did, then they announced it for the first time. Everyone was extremely surprised. This meant that tampa didnt need to deal with complaints about release dates. I know that many companies wouldnt be able to do this, but I think that it was a smart move. Ollie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 yep, and what a nice surprise OMDB was. I always find the lengthy wait for a pre-announced release end up with such an anti-climax, with lst minute announcements you don't get that and appreciate much more the product. at least that's my feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfko Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I think it is very smart of Orbx not to preview products with uncertain release dates in their own forums but e. g. there http://airdailyx.blo...ella-coola.html and http://airdailyx.blo...-exclusive.html Wolfgang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca22au Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 Bruce: thank you - the Majestic Software Q400 that is in beta looks superb and can't be far from release. It really does look great and very much a must have. I have noticed a new move by developers to actually run their 'forums' through Facebook, and certainly Majestic and BBSimulations do this. It is a waste of time going into their web based forums. I guess there are others also making use of the newer social media to promote and inform on their developments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_auau Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 So what will happen if the devs would give out a release date, 2 things will happen they are rushed to meet the release date and than will cause more bugs to appear and imagine if it doesnt come out on time, all the people stamping their feet you promised etc etc you know the rest. So unless you know whats going behind the scenes than you cant imagine the pressure these guys are under, they know we want the product out fast but i dont know about you guys i rather wait a few more months for a bug free product than a bug ridden product Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca22au Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 Peter, you're absolutely correct, but that isn't the point. Our concern is devs giving out planned release times, allowing the times to pass with little information, then setting a further time, again not achieved. "Coming soon" is also a phrase suggesting some time close, so also a bummer when the 'soon' never comes. I mentioned that JV and Orbx have got it right without giving release dates. That means no consumer pressure to put an incomplete product on the market - well maybe a little! When can we get England? lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Watson Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Sounds to me like Orbx Scenery is being compared to the PMDG 777 release. These can't really be compared, not saying scenery development is easy, but compared the to height of the bar that PMDG have set themselves, developing FTX Eng. bug free must be relatively straight forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca22au Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 No, PMDG does not give out release dates now. That's fine although regular progress reports would be interesting. Once a future product is announced it does create expectation. It becomes a matter of marketing strategy after that and most flightsim developers seem not to have got a policy worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boleyd Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Small companies giving release dates is silly and counter-productive. They can't move an artist or programmer to fill the slot of someone who catches the flu. Unreal demands to them for release dates is _____.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Scharnowski Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Sounds to me like Orbx Scenery is being compared to the PMDG 777 release. These can't really be compared, not saying scenery development is easy, but compared the to height of the bar that PMDG have set themselves, developing FTX Eng. bug free must be relatively straight forward. I was about to say the same. Building scenery isn't exactly a trivial matter, but compared to developing, researching and programming a complex aircraft simulation like the PMDG 737NGX or the 777, with all the systems that affect each other, the autopilot, the FMS and whatnot, it's a walk in the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Kane Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 My 2 cents......With FSX we are talking about a software package that was released on October 2006. We are now just over 6 years after its release. I am just grateful anyone is still developing for this platform at all. I can't think of any software that old that has this many developers still working on it. If any developer needs extra time that is fine with me. I understand people have other jobs, lives, families and other things in their lives that need focus as well. When you are ready to release these projects, I will be here to support people. It has been 6 years now so if it takes an extra bit of time to release something then who is counting at this point. I am just happy people this talented are still working on FSX addon's 6 years later and haven't moved onto other modern software titles....Amazing Now if the rest of the people behind this hobby could see it that way... Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca22au Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 I don't really want to reiterate my intentions in raising this, it was never about the length of time taken in aircraft add-ons, nor was i claiming that it was as easy as scenery design. I most certainly am not, indeed new airports are being churned out by the day it seems. No, my comment was only about managing any information regarding release so as not to raise false expectations like the now 3 threads at Aerosoft regarding their Extended. Good news is the embrace of Facebook by developers. Black Box Simulation, Majestic Software, and now FSLabs with their 320 are posting some great shots and careful reference to release. It seems that it is more fluid and far-reaching than the old websites, so I have had to change too. PS with P3D we are talking about FSX under constant upgrade. So it now gives developers another target. But please don't take this as a reason to re-start the EULA wars, a never-ending topic. PLEASE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chumley Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Don't see FSlabs A320 on Faceblog. Do see the ConcordeX though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca22au Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 No the FSLabs 320 has just appeared on Facebook, with one screenshot. It looks pretty interesting. I don't know how to reference it for you, FB is a format only my grandkids really understand, but the post or story is dated, 'yesterday at 8.08pm' and the site (?) is titled Fiight Sim Labs, Ltd. Blackbox Simulation is there with its planned 319/320 upgrade, while Majestic Software has a great range of shots of its upcoming Dash 8 Q400. And for that one I am really hanging out, it looks superb and as it has a fully pro version for airline training, its pilot's version will have all systems modelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chumley Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 No the FSLabs 320 has just appeared on Facebook, with one screenshot. It looks pretty interesting. I don't know how to reference it for you, FB is a format only my grandkids really understand, but the post or story is dated, 'yesterday at 8.08pm' and the site (?) is titled Fiight Sim Labs, Ltd. Blackbox Simulation is there with its planned 319/320 upgrade, while Majestic Software has a great range of shots of its upcoming Dash 8 Q400. And for that one I am really hanging out, it looks superb and as it has a fully pro version for airline training, its pilot's version will have all systems modelled. Thanks Ian I too await the Dash 8 and have 'liked' the majestiv Facebook site. The FSlabs site title was enough for me to find it on facebook. ConcordeX can be found under FSLabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcannon83 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Dont forget this />http://www.nextlevelsimulations.com/ Its been in the making for a long time, I'd guesstimate around the 3 year mark.They turned off their forums about 18 months ago due to the amount of 'when will it be released' posts. I have been looking forward to it for so long and it just doesn't feel like it will ever be finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I followed this for a while, but like yourself now reckon you can forget about a complex A380 even long term, promised or not, back to the drawing board with it, even if only because of the FMS interface being unlike most others and the large part this and the OIS (the large screens left and right) has to play in today's cockpits, same for A350. I admit I say this without any idea what it takes to model such features, but this level of complexity is surely (for the moment) a step too far relative to where we are today considering cs777 and pmdg 777 to come. Concerning the A380 FMS, in terms of user interface (menu selection), the feelthere e-jets pull down menus on the ND give me some clue about what is possible, without considering the sophisticated functions behind the scenes that today's airliners have more and more of. I am thinking a combination, in terms of features & complexity, of the 777 and the Mustang (displays) and the A320 (FBW) all rolled in together. All this makes me wonder what level the 787 "promised" by QW will be at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca22au Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 For what it is worth, my view of the Airbus add-ons PRESENTLY on the market, is as follows: The Aerosoft X is as advertised .. A light version, too simplified for most of us. No flames please, it is clear their Extended will be far more complex and with system fidelity. The Blackbox Simulation 319/320 is by far the BEST at the moment but with a lot of bugs. Their next upgrade is long due, but it is my Airbus of choice ATM. Most Airbus "gotchas" have been built in so flying with Autothrottle Inhibited warning is common until you sort it out. Not good FBW. The old Feelthere in its EVO upgrade with a P3D launcher is still good value. At least what they model is accurate. And they have working A330 and 340 models. The FSLabs 320 looks awesome in its fidelity, the details on systems in topics on its site are thorough in the extreme. But of course as to release to market, it's anybody's guess (though lots of anybodies are guessing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca22au Posted November 16, 2012 Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 And now we have England on final approach. JV and Orbx I rest my case, you turn scenery out with such regularity that the frustrated debates on RTM do not appear here ... apart from a few good-humoured jokes. I don't know what will happen now - will the Poms stop whingeing, or do they really have something to whinge about now (remember quality plays no part in this national trait)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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