answered OpenLC SA Crash At Altitude

[WB FlashOver]

Posting an issue I've been having with OpenLC SA. 
On my old system I was crashing at FL230 as I pass over DVOR OEL.

 

I tested the issue as follows;

A2A Aircraft Connie & P51 Civ
Stock aircraft Mooney Bravo
ASP4-ASCA running/not running
ALL FreeMeshX active/inactive

No other Add-on scenery from other companies/creators

 

ORBX Add-ons are;
All FTX Global add-ons
All FTX NA region add-ons
All FTX NA freeware airport add-ons

All FTX EU freeware airport add-ons

All FTX AU freeware airport add-ons
FTX Jackson Hole, Ketchican & Juneau
AI Traffic NA

AI Traffic AU & NZ

FTX Gold Coast

Up to date ORBX Libraries

Re-installed ORBX Libraries

FTX Lights Configurator

FTX Global Airport Pack

I have tested several planes [stock & add-on] at FL130 to 230 and always crashed at said location. I finally narrowed it down to OpenLC SA. This was in November of 2018 and a few weeks prior to a complete new system build so I just flew with OpenLC SA disabled until I was off the continent. After new system build, installing P3Dv4.4 [upgrade from 4.3 prior to new build], installing all purchased ORBX add-ons + new purchase of TrueEarth Netherlands, and several months later I am back in South America. Today I crashed at FL235 over DVOR MCS. I used Mooney Bravo, slew, auto pilot and saved a flight at altitude to test again. And again, I crashed but by disabling OpenLC SA I am able to pass over MCS without issue. Enable OpenLC SA and crashing occurs. I tested again over DVOR OEL and same issue hear as well. I was hoping a fresh install would have fixed the issue but alas it did not. 

 

Am I the only person having this issue? If so why? How can I fix this?

 

Thanks so much for the great sceneries.

 

Roger

[Smudger]

Roger,

try your test flight with Crash Detection turned off in P3D settings.

[WB FlashOver]

Thanks Smudger. I will do that. What can I learn from that. I always fly with crash detection on so that if I do actually crash my plane I will pay the price. 

 

I'll get back once I try your suggestion. 

 

Roger

[Stewart Hobson]

56 minutes ago, WB FlashOver said:

Thanks Smudger. I will do that. What can I learn from that. I always fly with crash detection on so that if I do actually crash my plane I will pay the price. 

 

I'll get back once I try your suggestion. 

 

Roger

But don't you already know your plane has crashed if you crash on approach or stall the aircraft too close to the ground?  You don't need crash detection to tell you you've messed up.

[WB FlashOver]

Ok, I went ahead and fired up the PC and tried this. As suspected I fly right through the crash area without incident when Ignore Crashes and Damage is enabled. Even with Crash Detect on and Crash Tolerance at 50% I cannot make it through the area. My typical setting is Detect Crashes and Damage but with Vehicle Stress causes damage & Allow collisions with other vehicles disabled. 

 

I crash if I have Detect Crashes enabled OR if I have OpenLC South America active. I suppose I will finish my South America legs with crash detect disabled but it does seem that there is an issue in the area. I have been around the globe a couple of times with over 250,000 miles in the A2A L049 and I seem to have trouble only in this area and only sense I installed OpenLC SA. 

 

Thanks again

Roger

[WB FlashOver]

6 minutes ago, Stewart Hobson said:

But don't you already know your plane has crashed if you crash on approach or stall the aircraft too close to the ground?  You don't need crash detection to tell you you've messed up.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with A2A Simulations aircraft. It has been several years sense I have actually crashed a plane with the last time being over 4 years ago at ID19 when I made the most beautiful landing in my A2A B-17 with the gear still locked in up position. This cost me 4 new engines when I had well over 300 hours on the original ones. If I disable crash detect then I don't have to pay the price for my mistakes. Sure I know I crashed but I don't have to replace engines and loose my hours. In my mind this is cheating myself of the consequences of poor pilot skills. I understand that most people fly with crash detect off but that is not the way I fly. And really, that does not matter IF there is actually a problem with scenery.

[Doug Sawatzky]

Hi

 

I don't believe A2A aircraft are dependant on crash detection.

 

https://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51155

 

And I can't imagine so, as crash detection is a flawed feature (Gimmick) of the core simulator and was conceived before the evolution of 3rd party addons started becoming popular, and there really is nothing realistic about it. Developers have always done their best to accommodate it, but there are many instances where it is not possible with the ever more complex addons being developed, so it is probably not economically feasible for them to waste their precious creative time trying to fully accommodate a very unpopular broken feature.

 

  I also believe that if the ability to turn it off did not exist, the flight simming business would also not exist. 

So, I guess another way to see the reality of it is that some modern addons are simply not going to be fully compatible with ancient features.

 

 

 

 

[WB FlashOver]

Thank you Doug, I had not seen that thread. I'll have to test it to see how it all works. If you hit the ground hard do you bounce along with damaged engines or what? 

 

Thanks

Roger

[WB FlashOver]

I've tested with crash detect off and it is as I suspected. You basically cannot crash into anything. You can fly through trees, buildings, towers, etc. I then landed my P-51 Civilian at approximately 1,000 fpm and it bent my prop, ruined my main bearings & I received a hydraulic leak... really?!

 

So not to continue to argue the matter but here are my thoughts on this. I spent a lot of money to purchase the following; Saitek X52 Pro, HiFi Simulations Active Sky & Cloud Art, eight (8) A2A Simulations aircraft [and counting], many Orbx FTX sceneries [and counting], FSUIPC, donations to the LINDA team, TrackIR and several thousands of dollars in a PC to run it all. It is all worth the cost to fly as realistically as possible and I'm not done with items I would like to acquire.

 

Now, if I turn off crash detect I have no fear of consequences of coming in on final and being too low as I fly through a building or trees. Or I stumble off the end of the runway through the fence and into the trees. Or maybe clip a hanger as I'm taxiing. I take great pride in the record I have achieved with no crashes in the last 5+ years. Over 1,100 hours and 250,000 miles in the Connie alone without a single crash (aside from those nasty crash boxes but I back up my plane data files before and after each flight for those). 

 

My point, I guess, is that until I find the culprit of the crash in this area I will continue to fly southern South America with crash detect OFF and ON everywhere else. 

 

Thanks for the replies gentlemen. 

Cheers

Roger

[Doug Sawatzky]

Just one of my favorite concepts of having crash detection turned off is being able to look around the airports and scenery close up in detail without any consequences.

 

 

[Smudger]

12 hours ago, WB FlashOver said:

My point, I guess, is that until I find the culprit of the crash in this area I will continue to fly southern South America with crash detect OFF and ON everywhere else. 

Roger, to be able to identify that culprit, would entail knowing the exact GPS co-ordinates and then approaching that spot multiple times in a clockwise direction and at varying heights.

Is it a line or shape ?

[WB FlashOver]

Hello Smudger,

So I have found crash spots over top of VOR MCS and OEL. These stations are 664 miles apart. On both flights I was headed W or SW from Rio De Janeiro area. Both times I had just past the station and was 2-4 miles outbound. I have tested at altitudes from 130 to 235. I could not visually see any objects even in paused-outside views. I did not try alternate routes of a few miles to either side. I did turn off crash detect and fly past the regular crash point and then reactivated crash detect only to crash a mile or so beyond. 

 

I tried many variations of activating/deactivating numerous add-on sceneries. I have both sets of files for the saved flights in the Mooney Bravo at both locations if this would help research it. 

 

Thanks

Roger

[WB FlashOver]

16 hours ago, Doug Sawatzky said:

Just one of my favorite concepts of having crash detection turned off is being able to look around the airports and scenery close up in detail without any consequences.

 

 

I have done this in Juneau, Ketchikan & Jackson Hole but I always use slew to take the stroll sense I have always had crash detect on. It is very fun to do this and see all the effort put into the sceneries. 

 

Good times

Roger

[Iahawkeyedds]

I had an issue like this south of KMEM a while back and it was because I had the mesh resolution set to high... it was like an invisible wall south of the airport that would all of the sudden appear and occasionally Id crash into it.  The developer of KMEM told me to set the mesh resolution to 5m/pixel AT MOST... as he described....

 

“if you set it higher, you force the sim to oversample, which causes terrain spikes due to rounding errors. That spike is NOT present in the scenery, it happens in the sim when using a setting higher than the highest mesh you have in the sim, and it's also a waste of memory and resources, for no visual benefit.”   

 

Not sure if it will help your problem but it solved mine.

[WB FlashOver]

10 hours ago, Iahawkeyedds said:

5m/pixel AT MOST... 

 

Thanks lahawkeyedds,

I took a look this morning and saw that I had mesh res set to 2m. I dropped it back to 5m and even back to 10m but it didn't help. I know OpenLC SA requires 5m so I'm not sure why it was at 2m. 

 

Thanks

Roger

[Swi_Tzer]

hello gentlemen,

(First post here) Like Roger, I am flying with crash detection on (stress on, collision vehicles off ) - it adds to the realism, but it's not the point here. I have also crashes to a hidden object in "about" the same region in south America and I could also narrowing it down to the OpenLC SA. I had the (object) incident not on a specific VOR, but enroute, following Airway UN721, coming form Fix ISALA down to PAPIX, 40000ft/PMDG 748. I also think there is something hidden in the region causing the crash - general speaking in Uruguay, since Roger mentioned MCS VOR.

 

I had the crash with P3D v4 and 5 and could reproduce it. The first and the oddest one was, as i tried my long haul EDDF-SAEZ..., 12+ hrs flight and just prior the descent.. boom! I first thought it was the airplane, but I recreated the flight again - boom. I then tried from SBGR to SAEZ - going down the line through UN721 airway - boom, 34000ft, FSLabs A320.

 

Curious, I wanted to find out the cause. I set myself up on a flight going from SUMO to SAEZ, going ISALA, UN721 down to SAEZ.

Any aircraft crashed as long as i flew a planned route (FMC or Garmin). To my surprise, taking the F22 and flying to the spot hand flown, nothing happened, even if i followed the route.

Removed OpenLC SA and I could fly the the planned route on autopilot with the all the ac.

So, for what is worth, here another report of invisible object crash in OpenLC SA. I have all OpenLC's, and never had this on the other one and I've flown almost "everwhere" - big jet, small.. whatsoever.

Attached - my point of crash, and the distance form I believe Roger's point.

 

Best regards

Pascal

 

 

 

[Nick Cooper]

Hello,

the answer is just to switch off the crash detection.

A2A and indeed many other aircraft do not require it to be switched on to simulate their failures

and it is the least realistic portrayal of an actual crash that it possible to imagine.

 

For what it's worth, I am a master of inadvertently  landing the A2A B17 with the wheels up, having been caught

out more than once by the "neutral" gear lever position.

 

I can tell you that the aircraft scrapes along the ground, the engines stop and are damaged and all four propellors are bent.

It is a very good way to stop in a short distance but more to the point, it simulates what actually happens if you belly land,

not some ridiculous resetting of the simulator to its default flight.

[Stewart Hobson]

55 minutes ago, Nick Cooper said:

Hello,

the answer is just to switch off the crash detection.

A2A and indeed many other aircraft do not require it to be switched on to simulate their failures

and it is the least realistic portrayal of an actual crash that it possible to imagine.

 

For what it's worth, I am a master of inadvertently  landing the A2A B17 with the wheels up, having been caught

out more than once by the "neutral" gear lever position.

 

I can tell you that the aircraft scrapes along the ground, the engines stop and are damaged and all four propellors are bent.

It is a very good way to stop in a short distance but more to the point, it simulates what actually happens if you belly land,

not some ridiculous resetting of the simulator to its default flight.

I had a similar experience with my Cheyenne II yesterday, crash detection off.  Belly landed the bird, it skidded to a stop with sparks flying.  No bent props, but that was the end to that flight for sure.  Luckily, no one was injured, and I didn't have to start the flight all over again with the default aircraft.

[Nick Cooper]

I have been practising .....

 

 

 

[WB FlashOver]

Thanks for the follow-up and information Pascal. I didn't get an email notification of your post and it's been a while since I been to this site so didn't see your post. There is definitely something messed up with OpenLC SA. Maybe sense so few fly with crash detect ON it is not worth the time for Orbx to do any research into it.

 

I still fly with crash detect ON and will continue to do so. I have made some beautiful belly landings in the A2A B-17, A2A P-51 and even in the A2A Comanche and the flight did not end in a reset. I received bent props and engine damage that seemed reasonable. So I did some testing with crash detect OFF and was not impressed with results. You can literally fly through trees, buildings, towers, etc. I landed the P-51 at around 1,000 FPM and received a bent prop and a hydraulic leak. It should have collapsed the gear and trashed a bunch a components. It just did not impress me so will continue as I always have.

 

For those of us that fly with crash detect on and have OpenLC SA installed we will have to remember to turn crash detect off or disable OpenLC SA when in that area.

 

Cheers

Roger