answered Running OLC over a disabled FTX Region

[Jon Clarke]

I have PNW etc but wanted to check the differences between the full fat and OLC NA. I use Arlington KAWO as my base. Using Simstarter profile which has all the NA Full Fats disabled and Vector is enabled I find KAWO has elevation issues. The plane is buried under the runway with only the tail showing.

So far I have looked at Vector AEC but no KAWO appears to allow a disable or enable. I have also disabled Ultimate NA mesh. I have put in an Ultimate Airfield Flattening bgl into scenery\world\scenery. None of these trials has resulted in KAWO being correct. I notice though that scenery\world\scenery contains an ADE elevation fix which is planted in there by PNW. I removed the ADE PNW KAWO elevation bgkl and the airport returned to normal. I can now fly with Ultimate Mesh and Vector enabled.

My question is why is the sim reading this elevation bgl when PNW is disabled? This anomaly in theory could occur with every full fat region ADE placed into scenery\world\scenery when wanting to fly with OLC NA only.

Why do I want to fly OLC rather than full fat? On occasions I want to see the difference and other times the performance is better when flying a tube liner and the detailed full fat scenery is not required.

[Guest]

HI,

To make easy to understand AEC only disable what VECTOR customed. If the elevation was modified by another product (FTX or thir party), the ICAO code from the airport is missing from the lists.

For the case of KAWO, the elevation was only changed by FTX NA PNW and not FTX Global Vector. That's why you cannot see it into AEC.

[Wolter van der Spoel]

To add to Richards reply,

 

Did you run the AEC tool and then hit Apply?

Did you update Vector to the latest version?

Do have the latest library files installed and run the migration tool

you can leave the PNW active when using OLC

[Jon Clarke]

Thanks guys but not really answering my query.

Yes AEC was run but Vector makes no reference to KAWO as per Richards explanation, which I already know.

Yes all libraries updated, Vector is up to date, migration done a while back. This is not a new install of PNW or OLC NA.

The problem is based on the PNW installed ADE KAWO  elevation bgl which is being read while PNW is disabled. Remove that bgl and I get OLC NA version of KAWO and surrounding scenery.Having PNW enabled with OLC NA is also known to me and fine if I want to fly in PNW and then move to an OLC NA area only. This is not the point though. I want to fly in the area "covered" by PNW but only using OLC NA version of that area.  KAWO is in PNW Region, but disabling it should only render me the OLC NA scenery, which it does, except the airport (not enhanced because it is not the PNW enhanced version but the OLC NA/default airport) The plane is buried except for the tail. Remove the PNW influenced ADE FTX PNW elevation adjustment BGL and the plane is on the tarmac.

If I had PNW enabled it would result in my PNW scenery (full fat version) being displayed and not OLC NA because FTX is above OLC in the scenery library. This would defeat the objective of flying in the Pacific Northwest with just OLC NA scenery being displayed. It would display PNW.

So again I am asking why is the sim reading the ADE FTX PNW elevation adjustment BGL file when PNW is totally disabled?

 

Nothing to do with libraries update, migration or Vector (AEC or other Vector aspects)

[Wolter van der Spoel]

because the file is active in ...\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\Scenery\World\Scenery\ADE_FTX_PNW_KAWO_elevation_adjustment.BGL

[Jon Clarke]

So that means you cannot fly in OLC NA in an area that you already have covered by a Full Fat Region even if you disable the Region? You would have to uninstall the region or turn all the elevation adjustment bgls temporarily to .OFF and then fly.

I know the ADE FTX PNW elevation adjustment bgl is Active. My question is why are they active when you have disabled the Region? There should be an option in the full fat regions control panel to disable Elevation Adjustments, like there is for in built ai Traffic for example. That also contains bgls in Scenery\world\scenery but disables them if you want. That way you can then fly if you want in a total OLC NA environment, and then revert back via the control Panel to activate the elevation bgls and then you can enable PNW for example and fly the full fat scenery.It would not be difficult to offer the " disable elevation adjustments" option via a PNW Control Panel. It is done traffic options that are based on bgls inside the scenery\world\scenery folder.

[Wolter van der Spoel]

now you are confusing me,

 

if you disable all the PNW folders, via you fsX CP,

then in  ...\Microsoft Flight SimulatorX\Scenery\World\Scenery\ADE_FTX_PNW_KAWO_elevation_adjustment.BGL is still active,

you can rename the extension to .off to render it inactive

also make darned sure that your mesh res is set to 5 mtr.

[Jon Clarke]

Wolter I appreciate your input. All I am saying is that disabling a Region does not in fact disable all aspects or details contained within that addon. It leaves a crucial part still active. That part being all the ADE elevation adjustment bgls that it has installed into scenery\world\scenery. The result is that all airports that are in PNW as an example, that have ADE elevation adjustment bgl's in scenery\world\scenery are not disabled. In my opinion they should be because otherwise you get the airport problems I am speaking of. It disables all the files in the actual PNW Scenery and Texture files just fine, but not the bgls it has placed into scenery\world\scenery.

What i was also trying to say was that some Regions like SCA have an option in the SCA Control Panel for GA AI aircraft flight plans. These are available to be enabled or disabled via the control panel. They are bgl files, just like the ADE elevation correction files are bgls. So why cannot we have an option to enable or disable Elevation Adjustment ADE's which again are bgls stored in scenery\world\scenery? Then we could fly in a totally OLC NA scenario if we then disabled the full fat Region in our scenery library, so we could fly the OLC NA version of the scenery.

I am sorry if I have confused you, it is not my intention as sometimes the written word is not as easy to explain as the spoken word.

In a nutshell then.

Disabling a Region does not disable any ADE Elevation bgls. So the act of disabling is not a complete disable.

In order to fly the in the USA on totally OLC NA scenery without your plane being stuck in the ground, you would need to turn to OFF all the Elevation Adjustment BGLs relating to the Full Fat Regions you want to fly in. Disable the Region(s) in your scenery library and then fly. The mesh level is not related to the problem I am taking about. You can have it at 2mt or 5mt or 10mt. It is the elevation adjustment that causes the problem.

You then later want to fly in the Full Fat Region so you would then have to go back and enable all the disabled ADE Elevation Adjustment bgls you previously disabled, enable your Region(s) in the scenery library and you would then be flying in the Full Fat Region.

All I am saying is this could be done via an option in a control panel. Control Panel options: Elevation Adjustments ON/OFF/TICK/UNTICK just like GA AI in SCA control panel.

 

[Nick Cooper]

I see your point but a large amount of effort has been put into removing the switch that was previously there.

Disabling a region is now only possible by manually un-ticking the scenery library entries and this indeed has

no effect on the elevation adjustment files.

A manual intervention has also to include all the elevation adjustment files associated with that region.

It wouldn't be too difficult to set up a regime that could remove them temporarily with a few mouse clicks.

 

I suppose my question would be why would someone buy a region and then disable it before flying within it?

I see that you have answered the question but I suppose also that this course of action was not considered

when the decision was made to end the need to Apply Groups and use the hybrid mode.

[FalconAF]

For jjaycee1,

 

Welcome to Advanced User Techniques 101 for flight sim users.  Your problem is the same type of problem many flight sim users have faced in other areas ever since MS released FS2004.  Switching some addons TOTALLY on/off (without actually "uninstalling" them) does require some creative user solutions sometimes.  Here's the (relatively) QUICK solution to your problem.

 

1.  Note that as others have said, you can "Enable" or "Disable" MOST of an ORBX Full Fat region now (like PNW in your case) by just checking/unchecking it in the Scenery Library.  But as you note, that does not enable/disable the associated elevation adjustment files in the separate Scenery/World /Scenery folder.  BUT....

 

2.  All the ORBX installed Elevation Adjustment files in the Scenery/World/Scenery folder are named in Alphabetical Order according to the Full Fat region they belong to.  For instance, I have 96 ADE_FTX_PNW_(airport code)_elevation_adjustment.BGL files listed for PNW.  All the other Full Fat region elevation adjustment files are listed the same way, but contain the 3-letter designator for those regions (SCA, CRM, GEN, etc) instead of PNW in the file name.

 

So, when you want to disable the entire Full Fat PNW like you want to, just.....

 

1.  Have a TEMPORARY folder created somewhere else on your computer.  Name it something like, "Backups of FTX PNW Elevation Adjustment Files" (or whatever makes sense to you).  Then open up the Scenery/World/Scenery folder, scroll down to the list of PNW named Elevation Adjustment files, and MOVE ALL the PNW ones (not copy) to the TEMPORARY folder (you need to MOVE them OUT of the Scenery/World/Scenery folder.  And note:  You may as well move ALL of the PNW ones, seeing as you are going to disable ALL the PNW entries in the Scenery Library to begin with. There is no need to manually rename 96 individual files to "BGL.OFF", then remove the "OFF" later, etc.  One quick "MOVE" of all the required files is all that is needed).  THEN...

 

2.  Go to your Scenery Library and uncheck (disable) ALL the 4 FTX_NA_PNWxxx entries in the Scenery Library (numbered 05, 06, 07, 08).

 

When your flight sim rebuilds the Scenery Library then, both the Full Fat PNW region will be disabled, along with all the associated Elevation Adjustment files for it from the Scenery/World/Scenery folder (they were moved out of the folder).

 

Just reverse the process to re-enable the entire Full Fat PNW region.

 

 

 

CAVEAT:  Any ORBX PAYWARE airports installed for that Full Fat region may now display incorrectly, as it is a requirement that the Full Fat region be installed for the payware airport to work.  So don't try to fly into an installed ORBX payware airport unless you are willing to see "issues" at them after disabling the Full Fat region.

 

Yes...it can be a PITA sometimes.  But "savvy" flight sim users have been using these kinds of "fixes" for a long, long time, depending on the addons they have installed on their computers, and what they want to do with them.

 

And FWIW, I agree that ORBX's decision to eliminate the switching on/off of "regions" in FTX Central is a GOOD thing.  It was just too darn confusing, not only for new flight sim users, but sometimes for us veteran users too.  It WOULD be nice if there was a way to disable an entire Full Fat region and just use the OpenLC when flying something like an NGX, but I think that would just re-introduce too much confusion.  But there may also be very valid reasons a user may want to enable/disable a scenery product too, and the simpler way it can be done, the better.  So for now, for some users, the above "steps" I gave you can be used.  For other users, the "easier" way is to just turn down the scenery display settings in the sim, to reduce the amount of "stuff" that is included in the Full Fat region the sim has to try to display.

 

[Stewart Hobson]

Excellent solution, this.  Not applicable in my case, nevertheless as simple a solution to the problem as I've seen.  Nice one, Falcon.

[Nick Cooper]

5 hours ago, FalconAF said:

1.  Have a TEMPORARY folder created somewhere else on your computer.  Name it something like, "Backups of FTX PNW Elevation Adjustment Files" (or whatever makes sense to you).  Then open up the Scenery/World/Scenery folder, scroll down to the list of PNW named Elevation Adjustment files, and MOVE ALL the PNW ones (not copy) to the TEMPORARY folder (you need to MOVE them OUT of the Scenery/World/Scenery folder.  And note:  You may as well move ALL of the PNW ones, seeing as you are going to disable ALL the PNW entries in the Scenery Library to begin with. There is no need to manually rename 96 individual files to "BGL.OFF", then remove the "OFF" later, etc.  One quick "MOVE" of all the required files is all that is needed).

 

What I had in mind is exactly this except I would copy all 96 elevation adjustment files into the new folder.

Then to disable the region, copy all the files back to the scenery\world\scenery folder.

This has the effect of highlighting them, so once highlighted, delete them all.

Un-tick the four scenery library entries.

To re-enable the region, enable the scenery library entries and copy the files back in.

[Jon Clarke]

Thanks Falcon/Nick/Stewart/Wolter et al:

Falcon: I have done that already as it was an obvious temporary solution and easy to do,but thanks for your input. I too am a supporter of the removal of the switching on/off the Regions but not for my personal situation because I have always used SimStarter which I have profiles for switching on/off anything I want with a simple click. It is certainly good for those who as you say could become confused. I never flew in Hybrid for example.

Anyway my whole point for this topic was that it would not be possible to fly in a total OLC NA world with a disabled NA Region without some elements of that regions files being still active and thus creating a problem. The ability to fly east to west in a tubeliner in the USA is an important aspect for some users, and to be able to do it with a much lower performance hit (VAS etc). I fly VFR so it is not that important to me personally. I also just wanted to point out that there was probably an easy technical solution via an on/off option with a control panel.

Regarding flying in OLC NA if you have a region available, as Nick says I have already answered that initially. A caveat to Nicks' note that the Devs didn't consider the Elevation on/off options at the time of the LClookup change is understood, but then again, the great addon OLC NA was not released at that point in time.

I am satisfied that this topic has probably reached a conclusion, and that a simple user's solution is available via the method outlined kindly by Falcon.

[FalconAF]

If you use (or want to use) something like SimStarter to do it, there MIGHT be another way to do it (see my CAVEAT at the bottom of this post).  The Elevation Adjustment files don't HAVE to be in the Scenery/World/Scenery folder for them to work.  They could be in a DIFFERENT folder, added to the Scenery Library, then activated/deactivated themselves with SimStarter (along with the Full Fat region.  The "extra" folder you would create for them would just need to be prioritized correctly (be above the "Default Scenery" entry in the Scenery Library).  For instance...

 

1.  Create a new folder called (sic) "FTX NA PNW Elevation Adjustment Files".  Make sure you also create a subfolder under it called "scenery".

 

2.  Move the 96 PNW Elevation Adjustment files from the Scenery/World/Scenery folder into the new "FTX NA PNW Elevation Adjustment Files/scenery" subfolder you created.

 

3.  Add the entire folder to your Scenery Library, and move it so it is immediately above the Default Scenery entry in the Scenery Library (the Default Scenery entry is the sim's Scenery/World/Scenery folder in the sim).  

 

Your Scenery Library order would now be this (down at the bottom of it):

 

0000 Base

FTX NA PNW Elevation Adjustment Files - (this is where you moved the files from the default Scenery/World/Scenery folder to)

Default Scenery - (the Scenery/World/Scenery folder, but now without the FTX Elevation Adjustment files in it)

Default Terrain

 

You could now use Simstarter to control both the 4 FTX Full Fat region Scenery Library entries, AND the separate FTX Elevation Adjustment Files folder you created, to totally "add/remove" the FTX Full Fat region.

 

NOTE:  Even if you don't use SimStarter, you would now have all the FTX NA PNW Elevation Adjustment files in a separate folder in the Scenery Library you could "disable" just using the Scenery Library itself.

 

CAVEAT (again):  This MIGHT cause a problem if FTX Central didn't like the ORBX files not being in their "default" folder locations (like during the initial sync of everything when you start FTX Central, or if there is an update to a Full Fat region through FTX Central, etc).  That is something the ORBX team would have to advise us about if it would cause an issue with the upcoming FTXC3 migration.  But, if it wouldn't mess up FTX Central, the above is how to do it and be able to use SimStarter to make it even easier. You wouldn't have to move any files back and forth anymore to enable/disable the Elevation Adjustment files.

 

[Jon Clarke]

Excellent potential idea Mr Falcon... Kudos to you.

I think that it would work. Regarding the FTX Central 3 and/or a product update potential problem, I could just return (copy/paste) the files back to scenery\world\scenery prior to the update process and it would all be orbx "normal". After the process is finished I could then just delete them again and reinsert the new file back into the scenery library.

"FTX NA PNW Elevation Adjustment Files"

 I will try it out tomorrow and let you know the results. I know it could be seen as a fuss about nothing especially to those wondering why one would not fly in the full fat and just cross over seamlessly into OLC NA where applicable, but for tube flyers it could well be an ideal solution. It would allow their high resource eating tubeliners to be flown any where (within reason KJFK and KLAX probably the exceptions) in the US.

[Stewart Hobson]

I have read posts elsewhere in which tubeliner fliers flying into KLAX and perhaps KSAN, simply disable FTX SCA and let it go at that, with no thought to the airport elevation corrections in .../Scenery/World/Scenery.  It would seem they would find this thread very useful.  Again, it's not an issue for me, however.

[Nick Cooper]

This might be a good moment to point out that problems caused by modification

of the installation of any FTX product are completely unsupported in these forums.

 

I think there is more than enough information here to answer the original question

and bearing in mind that there are product support forums and not product

dismantling forums, it is time to end the discussion.

 

Anyone without some knowledge of file manipulation in Windows File Explorer

and without a working knowledge of how their flight simulator uses such files is

strongly advised to disregard the advice given in this topic, including mine.