active installing Orbx airports

[Dazkent]

Hello

 

Am reinstalling Sumburgh and also newly purchased Welshpool but i can't for the life of me remember what I need to have FTX Central set too, would this be Europe? if so and I wanted to purchase some North American airports would FTX central need to be set to that region too? or does it not matter what i have it set to when installing

 

many thanks

 

 

[Guest]

Hi,

Follow instruction into PDF to be right

[Dazkent]

Would this be the definitive guide to Orbx PDF?  just been looking through it and it says it doesn't matter

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

For each FTX payware, there is a PDF. You can find them into FTX Central v2 by the Acrobat icon

[Dazkent]

At the moment I do not have Sumburgh or Welshpool installed, the downloaded files do not contain the PDF, So far I have England, Scotland and Wales installed and have read through those PDFs but it does not give me the info I am looking for

I have tried looking through the FAQ and can find the installation order but can't find any info on what i should set FTX Central to when I want to install the airport

 

many thanks

 

 

[Guest]

Some airports are dedicated to a FTX region, some are to FTX Global. That is mentionned into the description of the product on FSS and into the announcements.

The order into the scenery library is automatically managed by FTX Central. There is nothing to move manually

[Dazkent]

Thanks for your help Richard, I guess that If I set FTX central  to Europe when installing EU airports and North America for NA airports this is correct?

 

 

[Guest]

No special mode to set previously an install. Just set a mode after and when you click on Apply, FTX Central sorts it right for you

[Dazkent]

Thanks for your support Richard, time to get installing and then flying

[Adam Banks]

After many years of using/installing ORBX products (I've been with ORBX since the very beginning), I still panic when I see that "install" button - and wonder whether I should be doing something to FTX Central.

 

I'd have thought a simple note in the readme (or preferably in the install screen in case there's no included PDF) saying words to the effect "Installation is automatic - and totally independent of any current  FTX Central setting".

 

This would put all our minds at rest and stop these recurring questions in the forum.

 

Shouldn't be *that* difficult, Shirley?

 

Adam.

[Jon Clarke]

Good point raised and one I asked a while back but have received no response to date http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/106870-installing-regions-and-ftx-central

[Spacey]

This issue of loading blindly has been raised quite a few times in the past.  Each time I see this issue raised, I suggest the the products PDF Manual be placed on the Orbx's individual product info page.  This way people can read about the product before buying, and especially before installing, reminding them of the correct process.

 

i know lots of people wil say, it's really basic to load the program and the manual is really about setting up the product once loaded, but I am sure there are many out there who would like to see the manual on the product page and have a read of it before loading it onto their computer.  It's pretty easy to do from a webpage design point of view, and would take about 2-3 hours, and I doubt it would give away any secret information to other companies.

 

Putting the definitive guide next to it on each product page would be great as well.

 

The only other suggestion is could this info with the compatability list be put near the top of the page after the written description but before the pictures.  Some don't scroll all the way down so miss the compatability of the products. Vital info really should if it can go close to the top of the page, rather than looking at everything only to find out that time is wasted as it's not compatible with your version.  These three changes will help customers not overly confident enormously, as well as save a lot of unnecessary topics as the manuals and compatibility of each product will be easy to find and answer many questions before the customers head to the forums.

 

I'm no expert, but doing a lot of product webpage layouts,  feedback was always important info like this really needs to be on each page and high on the page before any scrolling down is required.  If scrolling is required to see at least the start of it, it's too low down

 

i hope this can be considered important in the list of things to do as it will save far more time for developers answering questions on the forums than the 2-3 hours making the changes.

 

thanks for any consideration this can be given.

Spacey

 

 

 

[Alex Goff]

Airports do not require any FTX Central setting. 

 

Many similar recommendations are holdovers from when things were not as well organized and clean as they are now. That is why for so many years there were guides as to the order and settings for each install, followed by libraries to clean it up.

 

Currently, you can pretty much install any product in any order you please. The only "rule" to abide by is installing regional and Global patches with FTX Central set to the respective area, just out of the necessity to make sure the autogen files match up.

 

Managing installation is very easy these days, it is just old advice lingering around that may indicate otherwise.

[Penzoil3]

Thanks Alex.

[Stewart Hobson]

Nevertheless, I few clarifying words during or before installation wouldn't hurt and would avoid a lot of confusion on the part of Orbx newbies.

[Alex Goff]

Very true, I will put forth recommendation for installation documentation

[FalconAF]

EDIT:  Alex and I cross-posted his post above and this post.  See my EDIT at the bottom of this post too.

 

I'll provide a "teaching" perspective on this topic, as I instructed in the military for many years and have an Instructional Systems Development degree from it (which includes the concept of how to write effective Lesson Plans and Instructions).  It's not a complaint, but rather an analysis of the "problem" from that perspective.

 

1.  Any "How To Install" PDF file that a customer CAN'T read until AFTER the product is installed is useless, and that is how the PDF files are in many of the current ORBX products.  It doesn't give the customer the information they need PRIOR to the installation.  And it can't answer any questions they have before doing the installation.  Which also means it can't alleviate any fears they may have about whether they may do it correctly before they HAVE to do the install to see the instructions on HOW to do the install.  It's a vicious circle that can only be eliminated if the user can see the "How To..." instructions before doing the installation.  Possible Simple Solution:  Each ORBX product downloaded comes with a Readme file already (or I think it does) along with the installation files.  Short of making the PDF file readable first in that same download, the Readme file really needs to say something like, "FTX Central can be set to any configuration or region for this installation" or something similar. And yes...I know that once the customer STARTS the installation, the "pop-up" windows that provide the "warnings" (in some cases), like "Don't click Finish until this or that happens" are "too late", in the sense that they can't eliminate the customer's "fears" until the installation is started.  So putting something like "FTX Central can be in any configuration for this installation" so the customer can see it only AFTER they start the installation really doesn't solve the problem.

 

2.  Alex said in his post, "Managing installation is very easy these days, it is just old advice lingering around that may indicate otherwise."  Any old, lingering advice needs to be purged from the sources a new customer may be able to find it.  This again is not a complaint from me, but the forums need to have that old, lingering advice purged.  You can't on one hand say something like "Search the forum to find an answer" if the answer someone may find is invalid now, then complain that new customers aren't "doing their part" when they post questions about conflicting guidance they may find.

 

There's a very valid adage in teaching.  "Teach from the Known to the Unknown."  "Instructions" on how to install ANY ORBX product are "teachings".  A new ORBX customer should be thought of as not knowing ANYTHING about how to install ORBX products in "proper ways".  Any instructions provided to them should be able to be read by them BEFORE even having to START any ORBX product installation. If they don't know they may see any instructions DURING the installation, they may already be hesitant to START the installation in the first place.

 

Just my observations.  NOT any complaints. 

 

EDIT:  Alex and I just cross-posted.  I just saw his reply above after I posted mine.  So it looks like everybody is on the same page now.  Thanks, Alex.  I think your decision will make things much easier for future ORBX customers.

 

[Chunk]

4 hours ago, Alex Goff said:

Many similar recommendations are holdovers from when things were not as well organized and clean as they are now. That is why for so many years there were guides as to the order and settings for each install, followed by libraries to clean it up.

 

This is a great thread, but in regards to what I quoted above, is it no longer necessary to reinstall ORBXLIBS after installing other ORBX products?  I've been doing that as my last part of any install for some time now.

 

Also, hi FalconAF, long time, no see. 

[Adam Banks]

Also ... I'd like to add that at time of install (even if it wasn't their first ORBX product) not all NEW customers will have subscribed to this forum [yet], so will be unaware of any installation "gotchas".

 

There's really no substitute for full instructions *prior to install*.

 

Adam.

[Spacey]

Hi FalconAF,

 

Thanks. You basically hit the nail on the head.  Especially the last paragraph. The worst thing we can do is assume everyone has the basic knowledge.  The comment that Alex makes " the only rule" is automatically assuming everyone is educated in this rule and always will remember a rule, but where does a beginner or even someone who doesn't download too often and forgets. Customers generally like a written guide before installation so they are comfortable in what they are doing.  

 

And the Forums now have 1000's of topics, and even I am happy to admit, I struggle to find what I am after on occasions.  For a beginner to have to find basic rules of installation, I think is maybe asking I little to much and a little unfair.

 

It is Orbx's choice as to whether manuals are available before or after installation, but I think FalconAF's comments should really be considered as he does make very valid points, and it is so simple to do.

 

Spacey.

[Alex Goff]

Patch installers have a screen before installation stating that FTX Central is about to be opened and to check that it is set to XXX region, and if not, set it to XXX region and hit apply. That base is covered by the installer as-is.

 

Other documentation is in the works.

[FalconAF]

On 12/9/2015 at 2:43 PM, Chunk said:

...is it no longer necessary to reinstall ORBXLIBS after installing other ORBX products?

 

Also, hi FalconAF, long time, no see. 

 

Hi Chunk!  Yeah, I went fully retired 4 years ago, bought a touring motorcycle, and "disappear" now for weeks at a time sometimes on road trips.  

 

As far as I know, unless something changed in the last few days (it didn't, I don't think), you still need to (should) re-run the ORBX Libraries after installing any ORBX product.  That still ensures you have everything "synced" as far as the current library objects being called for and used, and other things like Object Flow or whatever.  That requirement will probably always be included (as it is now) in the pop-up windows that show when someone starts an ORBX product installation. 

[Chunk]

Disappearing can be a very relaxing thing.

 

Copy on the LIBS; I'll just keep on doing what I'm doing...if it ain't broke...

[Alex Goff]

Here is the new install guide:

 

http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/107252-orbx-product-installation-guide/

[Adam Banks]

Fantastic, Alex - well done!!! 

 

My only comment is that seeing as there's only the one reason you should ever [manually] pre-set FTX Central is when installing patches, maybe that bit could be in bold?

 

Patches: Airport and Global patches can be applied with any FTX Central geographic region set, however regional patches should be installed with FTX Central set to the corresponding region being patched. The reason for this is to ensure that the appropriate autogen entries and terrain.cfg entries are made. Installers should make note of this and prompt you to check the region setting when FTX Central is opened.

 

The red is just to highlight it here (in this topic).

 

Adam.

[Alex Goff]

Thanks Adam, I'll make the edit.

 

Also, the patch installers provide this same information during the install when they bring up FTX Central.

[FalconAF]

Alex,

 

I just read the new install guide.  From an "Instructional Systems Development" perspective, I would give it an A+ grade if I was grading it.  Great job!  It is exactly what a brand new ORBX customer needs to know when it comes to "teaching from the Known to the Unknown".  And it is "all inclusive" in one single document too, addressing all possible ORBX products.  Again, GREAT JOB!!! 

 

Now (heh - heh!), my only remaining question would be, "How does a brand new ORBX customer, who may not be a forum member yet, SEE it or even know it is available?"  

 

Will a product the customer downloads and extracts to their hard drive from the "zip" file download contain any "instruction" on where to find it so they can read it before doing an install of the ORBX product?  For instance, will any included Readme file extracted with the product say something like, "Go HERE FIRST (with a link to the forum post) to read (or download, if a download link was provided in the forum post) the User's Guide for installing all ORBX products"?  Or will the download include and extract the actual new Guide so the customer can read it first?

 

Yes, I'm playing "Devil's Advocate" right now, but the customer still has to be able to read it before starting an installation, or it won't meet the goal of having it available in the first place.  Right now, the first-time new customer may still be in the "Unknown" state of not knowing the Guide even exists.  The product download should either 1) contain the Guide in a manner the customer can read it before starting the installation, or 2) tell them where to "go get it" to read it before doing the installation.  Personally, I would include a "go get it" link in the Readme files that come with the downloaded products "zip" files.  That way if the Guide ever changes in the future, you wouldn't have to go update every ORBX product download with a copy of an updated Guide (that would be a royal PITA to have to do).  The links to the Guide in all the product Readme files could remain the same, still directing the user to ONE updated forum post (the current one) where the updated Guide was readable (or contained ONE updated link in the forum post the customer could download to get a future updated Guide).

 

If you have already considered these things and are implementing them (or already have), then you get an A+++ grade instead.  

 

(Respectfully submitted, of course)

[Spacey]

Hi Alex, 

 

Thank you for taking  the time and doing this. The forums are clearly demonstrating the confusion that exists out there with some, as info is not easy to find by everyone.  Orbx has become a big hit, but the information flow has not caught up enough for everyone  The forums clearly show this by the same questions over and over and the moderators are frustrated as can be seen in the answers sometimes given. The forums are not easy the follow for all, and finding things especially with the new design has helped some, but not helped others such as myself. I now personally find the forums difficult to follow and get what I need. I am sure some of those new to Orbx will be the same, some it wil be good for and some it won't .  But the trick is to stop the need to go to the forums to understand the products (thus the 'Definitive Guide') and a 'how to load them'  document which helps give them a good knowledge and understanding of what they are doing.  So can I ask one more favour and ask you to consider four final suggestions if you don't mind, just to finish it off:

 

1.  Can some photos of the stages of installation be used in your guide so people can physically see what your writing or directing them to is actually what they are seeing on the screen so they know they are on the right path.

 

2.  Could  a few more links be used to make it really easy to direct them to what they need (with a photo of where they are being directed, again to ensure they are on the right path.

 

3.  Could you please give your document to a few friends who know little about flight simming, and watch them and see if they can follow the instructions and see if the pictures really help them.  I write a lot of instructional equipment usage procedures and then give them to friends with no knowledge on the topic with the item. If they can follow the manual without being confused, it is adopted. If there is an area they get stuck in or confused about as to why they are doing something, it's rewritten and the photos changed until it is right.  You will then know you have produced the best instructional manual possible for beginners starting out with Orbx products.

 

4.  Finally, place it right on the front page with the 'definitive guide'.   And then if possible on each products page so there is no chanc of not seeing it.  Your measure of success will be a drop in the number of basic questions being  asked in the forums and a massive saving in Orbx's time having you direct newbies on. And put the definitive guide everywhere possible including on the FSS Store with each product.

 

The forums are full of startup and loading questions from newbies to not so newbies, worried or confused about what step to take, because as yet manuals prior to installation are not available or easy to find, or information is lacking.  These two manuals (or an extra which covers FAQs with official Orbx answers) should be written to also stop these same topics appearing.  There are a lot of experts out there giving, on occasions, conflicting advice and incorrect personal opinions.  Fine for the experienced, but not always for a newbie looking for basic  guidance.

 

Thanks for for your time and for listening to customers (well me anyway).    The forums will show if it has been a success and developers can develop rather than answering the same questions over and over, and losing expensive development times and money.

 

Best wishes

Spacey