John York Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Probably not many of you users of Track IR experience thunder and lightning. If you're flying using real world weather and there's a lot of lightning about you can forget about using Track IR. The effects are horrendous. The picture not only becomes very jerky but also spins everything around. There's no way you can operate the aircraft controls under the conditions it produces. I've just had to turn it off for a complete flight because of this. I suppose the similar effect on Track IR is what you get if the monitor is subject to the sun's rays though a nearby window. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Fly Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Hello John! I think it also depends on whether you're using the ClipPro or not. The device is operating differently. I'm using the ClipPro myself, and have never had such problems. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John York Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 Yep, I use the Clip Pro. But have you ever flown in really serious thunder and lightning? Especially, the lightning. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Attwood Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 You've got a problem John. I've not long ago completed a flight in an ASE donner und blitzen scenario. Complete with 'OMG's, 'Oh wow! Did you see that?'s and 'Damn me, the whole cockpit lights up's. This was online with a buddy who also uses TIR. Having said all that, I've no answer for you, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Fly Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 OK, I maybe have another idea. Were you wearing clothes with reflective parts or was there anything behind you that might have reflected this light coming from the screen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek McAllan Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I think you'll find John is talking about REAL lightning, not onscreen lightning... Any bright IR source will screw with TrackIR (or indeed FreeTrack, which I use) and for this reason you'll probably find a warning in the docs about using the product in a location isolated from bright light and heat sources. Sunlight will also cause problems as will IR reflective parts on clothing or headphones. With this in mind, I've been playing around with FaceTrackNOIR lately, which doesn't need the old 3 point IR spot tracking method. Cheers, Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John York Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 I was flying using REX and FSX real world weather adjusting at 15 minute intervals. However, I've just realised, it must be the light coming from the screen reflecting on my glasses. It really was one holy cow of a storm stretched over 100 miles, pouring with rain (which I was above) and with continuous lightning flashes one after. Perhaps this was the same one you were in Ron? Trouble is, if I wear sun glasses I'll not be able to see at all!!! I've thought I could try darkening the screen to reduce the effect but that will mess up my more important photographic needs. The only other two things I can think of is I have a pair of sunglasses in my car that are designed to fit over the top of my real glasses. If they work, I could probably buy another pair of those to keep in here. The more practical idea perhaps is to use the F9 key and the hat switch until I'm through it. Alternatively, although I rather like the challenge of it, I suppose I could try to avoid flying in such stormy weather. Any other ideas any of you may have will be welcome. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek McAllan Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 OK so I was wrong John I used to have a similar problem with my setup where I had reflections from my headphones being picked up. I identified the offending spots and covered them with matte black paint pen. Don't know how you'd fix reflections from your glasses though!! Cheers, Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan2 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Hey Dereck, thanks for the hu on Nior. Let us know how you go with it and your thoughts about it . New topic ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper31 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I was flying using REX and FSX real world weather adjusting at 15 minute intervals. However, I've just realised, it must be the light coming from the screen reflecting on my glasses. It really was one holy cow of a storm stretched over 100 miles, pouring with rain (which I was above) and with continuous lightning flashes one after. Perhaps this was the same one you were in Ron? Trouble is, if I wear sun glasses I'll not be able to see at all!!! I've thought I could try darkening the screen to reduce the effect but that will mess up my more important photographic needs. The only other two things I can think of is I have a pair of sunglasses in my car that are designed to fit over the top of my real glasses. If they work, I could probably buy another pair of those to keep in here. The more practical idea perhaps is to use the F9 key and the hat switch until I'm through it. Alternatively, although I rather like the challenge of it, I suppose I could try to avoid flying in such stormy weather. Any other ideas any of you may have will be welcome. John John, I too wear glasses when I am at my computer. I use TrackIR with the clip pro thingy and love to fly in that kind of weather. I have never once had this problem though, and I do my flying on a 32" LCD screen with plenty of flashing light opportunities to reflect off my glasses. Do you by any chance have a second PC setup that is networked to your flight sim PC? Also, I assume there are no mirrors any wear near your flight sim PC setup? Lastly, are there any other IR emitting devices sitting around your flight sim PC that maybe you forgot about or are not aware of? Just some thoughts. Lets hope we get to the bottom of this for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek McAllan Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Alan, I have it working well, but not on my FSX machine. The current version does not support the new i5 and i7 processors, there's an update due in a few weeks which will remedy that, then I'll post a full update/evaluation. Works just fine with Condor and LOMAC FC:II however Cheers, Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John York Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 No, the only way I could do it perhaps is by getting a tint put on them, but that would probably mean a new pair and vari-focals are very expensive here. I flew this afternoon using Track IR with no trouble at all, so it was definitely the lightning. I've got nothing else around me that reflects and the only other thing on is the radio which doesn't normally interfere with anything. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takamba Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 In the TrackIR software you will find a "Light Filter Threshold". Try to adjust this threshold to filter the ambient light / sunlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice_King Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 John as soon as you mentioned the light from a window I twigged to your possible issue. You are getting phantom trigger's and need to turn your filtering up to solve your issue 1. Adjust the filtering in Track IR . (The spots shown will vary in size and brightness and the movement should be less sensitive. 2. Possibly relocate your Track IR Camera so it is at a slightly different angle that it currently is may assist for the window light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennH Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Alan, I have it working well, but not on my FSX machine. The current version does not support the new i5 and i7 processors, there's an update due in a few weeks which will remedy that, then I'll post a full update/evaluation. Works just fine with Condor and LOMAC FC:II however Cheers, Derek I have version 1.6 beta. Seems ok...but still too twitchy. Can never quite get it where I want it without making the response too slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan2 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Thanks Glenn, I do have trackir but would change it in a flash for this if it is just as good . Actually , trackir is back in the box and I use am using ECZA and mouse ..rock solid. Noir still appears to be a work in progress , hope for improvements or is it one of those things ...good for some and not for others.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Houston Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 . . . 2. Possibly relocate your Track IR Camera so it is at a slightly different angle that it currently is may assist for the window light.John, fwiw, I'm with Maurice on his suggestions -- particularly #2. If your TIR camera's perched at the top of your monitor, see whether you can elevate it somehow -- maybe by interspersing another object of some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John York Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 Thanks for the suggestions chaps. Actually, I have the camera standing on the top of the cabinet my monitor is in. The actual screen bottom is about 3" or for you young'ns 6 cms above the top of the monitor. I'm going to try the suggestion about the filtering on Track IR though. It seems a good tip. Thanks Maurice. John PS Just had a look and have altered it up and down but can't see any difference. Please advise which way should I be pushing the bar, left or right and what figure should I try first from the default of 150? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Attwood Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 You said you use the Track clip Pro. Is the camera positioned right in front of you? If it is...move it to the side. Mine is approximately a 1/4 the way along my monitor (same side as the clip, obviously) A thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockliffe Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 The effects are horrendous. The picture not only becomes very jerky but also spins everything around. There's no way you can operate the aircraft controls under the conditions it produces. John John my friend, why oh why don't you simply take more ice with it! Or better still, turn to the non alcoholic brands! Lol ( sorry, couldn't resist it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice_King Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Oh by the way you should have the Camera mounted on the side essentially directly in front of the track clip and not on the top and centre of the monitor. Why because this then put the dots into the correct relationship with each other. Another possible solution although somewhat unorthodox is to make use of a USB extension and place the camera behind you and above, spin the clip around to point behind and reverse the axis so the movement is correct on screen. I know this sound weird BUT a Sim Racer near me had an issue and I solved it that way, his movements were much smoother too since the camera was further away as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Attwood Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Oh by the way you should have the Camera mounted on the side essentially directly in front of the track clip and not on the top and centre of the monitor. Why because this then put the dots into the correct relationship with each other. Good tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Fly Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 PS Just had a look and have altered it up and down but can't see any difference. Please advise which way should I be pushing the bar, left or right and what figure should I try first from the default of 150? Thanks. OK, now I see where the probem is. The default value of 150 shows that you're not using the software correctly. You said you use the TrackClipPro, then please do the following: Right next to the Motion Control sliders (Speed & Smooth they are), there are two buttons that allow you to select the Tracking Target. I'm almost 100% sure you didn't select the TrackClipPro, because 150 is the default value for the TrackClip. So click on the TrackClipPro button. What's the difference between these two modes, you may ask? When using the TrackClip, the camera is emitting IR - basically, it's the source. The TrackClip then reflects it back to the camera. The filtering is set to 150, which is much lower than the default value for the TrackClipPro. When using the TrackClipPro, the camera is recepting only. The TrackClipPro is the source, which also means the camera is not emiting IR (so your glasses won't reflect it ). See the difference? About the filtering: incoming light values below the threshold you set are ignored by the camera, that's the meaning of this setting. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John York Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 Oh my.. I've just checked. I didn't buy the Pro clip. I remember now, I was going to but as the blurb said it was specially made to clip to a headset which I don't have and don't want, I got the ordinary one that I clip to the stiff peak of a golfers sun visor. So that still leaves me with the problem of my glasses reflecting the screen when flashing with lightning. I've tried those suglasses that fit over my normal ones now but that doesn't work because it degrades the vision so much that I can't see the instruments clearly enough. I think I'm stuck with it. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice_King Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 No John you are not. for instance if you place the camera underneath the monitor/s you dramatically change the angle of incidence for the reflected light. Now IMHO it sounds like you do not have the filtering set anywhere near high enough. another option is make your own track clip with an USB lead and some IR diodes but glue them to the headset , you won't even know they are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John York Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 If I knew what you were talking about Maurice I might try that. However, its working fine except for this reflection business, so I could change the filtering but no-one has yet answered my question as to whether I should push the bar to the right or to the left because looking at the dots, they don't seem to change a great deal at all. It does intruduce some red splodges but I've no idea what they are. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Fly Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 As I previously said, John: The filtering allows you to set a threshold, and incoming light values below it will be ignored by the camera. In other words, the higher you set that setting (so to the right), the more powerful the IR recepted by the camera should be in order to have any influence. If I were you, I would do the following: Set the Light Filter Threshold higher (to the right) And set the IR Brightness a little higher too (also to the right) - the red dots on the camera will become brighter. Does this work for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John York Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 Ok. I've now set the LFT to 175 (from 150) and the IRB to 12 (from 10). I can't say I noticed any difference to the dots but we'll see what those do. Now, to find some lightning! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John York Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 Well, that didn't work so I've gone back to the defaults for the camera. However, I've found the culprit....I think. Usually, the room I'm in has the curtains drawn and has quite has flat light which is what makes it so good for photographic processing. However, the curtains have been open recently and today the sun was shining through. Needless to say, Track IR played up. Then the sun moved across and it worked perfectly. I still think its reflections from my glasses, but it could be the sun through the window where I forgot to pull the curtains and reflecting on my specs. Or, it maybe the light was shining directly on the camera although I don't know how. Anyway, I'm finished messing with it now and I'm going to prove Howard was right in the first place by having some tipple! From now on, the curtains will be drawn. Thanks for all your attempts to help fellers. Its appreciated. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Fly Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 One last attempt. I almost never have the curtains drawn, and everything works perfectly. My LFT is set to 240. Also try to set IRB to a quite higher value to see the difference (17-20 it would be). Then try to lower it step by step, until you find the right setting for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Attwood Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 When I had the ordinary track clip, sun shining through the windows was an issue. With the Trackclip Pro it isn't. Curtains drawn or open, rain or shine, absolutely no issues with Trackclip Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeBird Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 In my last house I had mirrors behind me and when there was to mush light it played havoc with my track IR The only way I could use it was to darken the room. So maybe Track IR doesn't like reflections or shiny surfaces behind you. Besides that it works wonderfully and I couldn't fly without it. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice_King Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 so I could change the filtering but no-one has yet answered my question as to whether I should push the bar to the right or to the left because looking at the dots, they don't seem to change a great deal at all. It does introduce some red splodges but I've no idea what they are. The red splotches are areas that are unable to be understood. Well mate it's like this, you suck it and see, Open your Track IR control panel and try and replicate similar reflection conditions and change the filtering so you have a smooth response. Right click on the track IR and select Camera View and then test the LFT to get the best response, Look in camera grid for red areas that might indicate reflections coming from other places that the Camera doesn't understand nor like. I'd suggest a LFT range between 60 and 150 as a start point and tune from there depending on your needs. There are little green spots that tell you that Track IR is working and detecting the reflectors the bigger these can be used the more accurate the tracking and smoothness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John York Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 Thanks Just Fly and Maurice. There's quite divergence of views and between you virtually the whole range of the LFT is covered! Slight exaggeration I know. I'll experiment further but at the moment I know I get a satisfactory performance with the default camera settings when there is no sunlight in the room room. All I have to do now is wait for a really sunny day (probably next year now in England) and see what I can do to change them then. However, if the new settings work well on a really sunny day and in the room at its brightest, will they still be suitable for the more usual dull conditions I have in here? If it was ordinary photography of course they wouldn't. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalbotFlyer Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 In my last house I had mirrors behind me and when there was to mush light it played havoc with my track IR The only way I could use it was to darken the room. So maybe Track IR doesn't like reflections or shiny surfaces behind you. Besides that it works wonderfully and I couldn't fly without it. Josh Wife would not let me re-decorate the room so the trackir went bye-bye; she did suggest I could move into the cellar but..pass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice_King Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 IR Brightness does not work on mine , and no visible difference in the Cam view either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John York Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 Hi Josh. I have no reflective surfaces behind me. Just a natural pinewood cupboard yellowed with age. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeBird Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Posted 11 September 2011 - 04:47 AM Try this profile it works for all my airplanes Josh http://www.mediafire...4cfjajgmcyw44cc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenicoll Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I agree with Josh...I have 2 small windows behind me and even on a not so particularly bright day it plays havoc with the sensor so I have to close the blinds to darken the room.. I have Track IR 4 mind,I read somewhere version 5 is supposed to eliminate this.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeBird Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 In my new place I have no windows were my computer is and I have had no issues. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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