A fellow simmer's personal opinion, and usage Case Study/Strategy for P3D v5.2....

[Orbx Flyer]

Well, I guess it's no 'secret' how much I am thrilled with the graphic and FPS performance regarding Lockheed Martin's latest release:  P3D v5.2

 

This is the very first version ever....since FS9, that allows me to fully realize my scenery titles purchased...that all art assets can been seen, clean and clear, for the entire flight session, whether 20 miles...or trans continental. No longer matters...as well as the in -sim settings. That only now affects the FPS count. Graphics remain crisp, clear and clean.

 

So...with that being stated,  and visuals a very important anchor to my flight simming, as I am most predominantly,  a VFR 3,500 AGL flier and cross country 'tourer',  it was a no brainer, that I would want to own Microsoft's MSFS, and did a pre-order on that.  I very much enjoy that flight sim, for visuals, and hope it becomes more feature complete sooner than later.

 

The one thing that has always had a red flag (as I saw it...) for MSFS, is that it is totally dependent on a ISP connection to their Scenery Server, and that it truly is a not 'self contained' sim platform.  If for any reason...any,  your ISP goes down,  M.S. decides to abandon the title (we have seen this...yes) or they decide to start charging a monthly subscription fee to connect to their Scenery Server....this and all of it, can affect your current usage.

 

This is NOT an MSFS bash, or compare of features...post.  No..it is only putting out there, the realization that MSFS uses a Scenery Server independent of your system, and that Server is not under your direct control, or the continued connectivity to such.  That is what this post is bringing up, mostly.

 

With the latest version of P3D v5.2,  you along with your Orbx downloaded titles...are fully, fully self-contained.  You don't need to even be connected to your ISP, to run the features, and have your purchased and 'base' scenery available to your usage. This is a BIG point...  What if, any of the above comes between you and your usage of MSFS...what then?  

 

For myself,  with now P3D v5.2 giving such jaw-dropping visual clarity, and great FPS, and...with Orbx having their 40 percent savings sale (ending this coming July 5th!),  for myself, it was a great time to upgrade from v5.1 and to 'fill out' my Orbx title 'hold out's on my Wish List.  I consider my P3D v5.2 with Orbx populated,  my go-to sim for if at any time, MSFS will not be available, because FOR ANY REASON,  the MSFS Microsoft Scenery Server is 'not available'.

 

This is just one view of many of you.   If this post rings with some thought for you...it would be a great time to upgrade, or if you have already done so...to take advantage of the 40 percent (most P3D titles) and populate your P3D world.  You will know that this sim will perform...you will get your visual money's worth...and that is will ALWAYS be available to you, on your system, ,,,because it is an 'In HOUSE' fully installed and fully independent of any other requirement....ISP...Scenery Servers...to run, today...and ten years from now.

 

We are not in control, of the M.S. Scenery Server. We do not make any company decisions that will guarantee it will be there...tomorrow, or five years from now.  You...on the other hand, can totally make the decision to upgrade to P3D v5.2 and to populate it with whatever you want...Orbx Global products...Regionals...TrueEarth, and airports. 

 

Your 'flight sim' insurance policy'.  Just something I thought about, and did something about for myself.  You might want to, also, (if anything stated resonates with you)  while the savings and titles are available for purchase and download.  Something to merely think about, and hopefully, not become defensive about either. Cheers.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Orbx Flyer

[BradB]

Point taken , but for me MSFS will always be my Sim of choice . In fact I would gladly pay a nominal charge ( 4.99 or per month ) for premium access to there servers . In the last couple of weeks I have loaded up both XP11.53 and P3DV5.2 to see the improvements in both products . And believe me they have improved , but still as stated above my Sim of choice will always MSFS .

 

Cheers

John

[Orbx Flyer]

10 minutes ago, BradB said:

Point taken , but for me MSFS will always be my Sim of choice . In fact I would gladly pay a nominal charge ( 4.99 or per month ) for premium access to there servers . In the last couple of weeks I have loaded up both XP11.53 and P3DV5.2 to see the improvements in both products . And believe me they have improved , but still as stated above my Sim of choice will always MSFS .

 

Cheers

John

Brad/John, I'm also enjoying MSFS and just grabbed this morning that Orbx Optica full view plane for it., but this really wasn't directed Brad/John, to 'a sim of choice', topic post,  but to only point out the most direct and 'blaring' ...platform difference, is that your continued enjoyment of MSFS, is totally dependent on that Scenery Server even being there,  subscription (perhaps) or not.  That was my driving point of the post.  With P3D, that worry totally becomes a redundant and truly a---> non issue.   I suggested owning both, with P3D as a viewpoint of a 'Flight Sim (back up) Insurance Policy'. 

With the 40 % sale on...I pointed out that this was a good time to 'underwrite' that 'policy'!!!

 

Cheers,

Edited June 20, 2021 by Orbx Flyer

[gregmorin]

6 hours ago, Orbx Flyer said:

Well, I guess it's no 'secret' how much I am thrilled with the graphic and FPS performance regarding Lockheed Martin's latest release:  P3D v5.2

 

This is the very first version ever....since FS9, that allows me to fully realize my scenery titles purchased...that all art assets can been seen, clean and clear, for the entire flight session, whether 20 miles...or trans continental. No longer matters...as well as the in -sim settings. That only now affects the FPS count. Graphics remain crisp, clear and clean.

 

So...with that being stated,  and visuals a very important anchor to my flight simming, as I am most predominantly,  a VFR 3,500 AGL flier and cross country 'tourer',  it was a no brainer, that I would want to own Microsoft's MSFS, and did a pre-order on that.  I very much enjoy that flight sim, for visuals, and hope it becomes more feature complete sooner than later.

 

The one thing that has always had a red flag (as I saw it...) for MSFS, is that it is totally dependent on a ISP connection to their Scenery Server, and that it truly is a not 'self contained' sim platform.  If for any reason...any,  your ISP goes down,  M.S. decides to abandon the title (we have seen this...yes) or they decide to start charging a monthly subscription fee to connect to their Scenery Server....this and all of it, can affect your current usage.

 

This is NOT an MSFS bash, or compare of features...post.  No..it is only putting out there, the realization that MSFS uses a Scenery Server independent of your system, and that Server is not under your direct control, or the continued connectivity to such.  That is what this post is bringing up, mostly.

 

With the latest version of P3D v5.2,  you along with your Orbx downloaded titles...are fully, fully self-contained.  You don't need to even be connected to your ISP, to run the features, and have your purchased and 'base' scenery available to your usage. This is a BIG point...  What if, any of the above comes between you and your usage of MSFS...what then?  

 

For myself,  with now P3D v5.2 giving such jaw-dropping visual clarity, and great FPS, and...with Orbx having their 40 percent savings sale (ending this coming July 5th!),  for myself, it was a great time to upgrade from v5.1 and to 'fill out' my Orbx title 'hold out's on my Wish List.  I consider my P3D v5.2 with Orbx populated,  my go-to sim for if at any time, MSFS will not be available, because FOR ANY REASON,  the MSFS Microsoft Scenery Server is 'not available'.

 

This is just one view of many of you.   If this post rings with some thought for you...it would be a great time to upgrade, or if you have already done so...to take advantage of the 40 percent (most P3D titles) and populate your P3D world.  You will know that this sim will perform...you will get your visual money's worth...and that is will ALWAYS be available to you, on your system, ,,,because it is an 'In HOUSE' fully installed and fully independent of any other requirement....ISP...Scenery Servers...to run, today...and ten years from now.

 

We are not in control, of the M.S. Scenery Server. We do not make any company decisions that will guarantee it will be there...tomorrow, or five years from now.  You...on the other hand, can totally make the decision to upgrade to P3D v5.2 and to populate it with whatever you want...Orbx Global products...Regionals...TrueEarth, and airports. 

 

Your 'flight sim' insurance policy'.  Just something I thought about, and did something about for myself.  You might want to, also, (if anything stated resonates with you)  while the savings and titles are available for purchase and download.  Something to merely think about, and hopefully, not become defensive about either. Cheers.

I agree. P3DV5 will remain my sim of choice.

 

Greg

[Jack Sawyer]

Good point OF.  I do like the fact that my Orbx stuff is self contained and if I lost internet because of frequent thunderstorms I can still "fly" in my P3D 5.2 sim.  Also, I just thought of this and is a little off topic.  I've been saying for years that all the other companies should be like Orbx Direct which I love and look at what we have now.  All or most of A2A's offerings, ChasePlane, and a bunch of others including non-Orbx scenery.  Orbx Direct is a real piece of work and I'm glad I got to beta test it years ago.

 

I can honestly say that after the terrible alpha test I was in MSFS has dramatically improved and seeing just now filou's latest posts I'm simply amazed.  How I wish I had my favorite planes in it.  That day will come and then I'll be all in with MSFS and all Orbx has to offer because, and I'm not ashamed to admit it, Orbx in my opinion has the best scenery and airports.  I have maybe a dozen non-Orbx airports like KATL (being from here and working there), it looks ok but everything if flat.  If Orbx did a MSFS KATL I'd buy it today regardless of my fave planes not being in it!

 

 

[Seanmo]

6 hours ago, BradB said:

Point taken , but for me MSFS will always be my Sim of choice . In fact I would gladly pay a nominal charge ( 4.99 or per month ) for premium access to there servers . In the last couple of weeks I have loaded up both XP11.53 and P3DV5.2 to see the improvements in both products . And believe me they have improved , but still as stated above my Sim of choice will always MSFS .

 

Cheers

John

Same here. MSFS will always be my sim of choice and the flightsim world is moving forward. This understandably has created anger among some of those who are still using the older platforms, and some have invoked the age-old tactic of fear/uncertainty/doubt (FUD) as each of their previous criticisms has been addressed by Asobo. Suggesting that MSFT "could" abandon the incredibly successful platform is FUD. MS isn't going to abandon MSFS (a showcase for Azure/Bing) and, even if they did, we would still be able to use it AND companies like Orbx could make new imagery to make up for anything lost from Bing. It is disappointing but hardly surprising to see someone resort to that, but the truth is that FlightSim runs fine (though not as pretty) without streaming and if you don't understand that, please don't spread misinformation about it.

 

Now back to flying my "new" study-level DC-6 into Kai-Tak.

[bwestenhofer]

I feel like there is a bit of a culture merge going on between the gaming world and the simulation enthusiasts.  By that I am not making any statement about whether our hobby is a “sim” or a “game” which is a pointless argument, imho.  What I mean is that the gaming world has had a lot more exposure to systems entirely dependent on “the cloud,” or at least a server side connection.  Multiplayer role playing games like “World of Warcraft” has been running continuously for 17 years now.  With games like these there is absolutely no ability to do anything without a connection to the server (unlike MSFS which can in fact still run with a more generic representation of the world or a preloaded cache).  Does that guarantee anything with MS?  Of course not, but it at least puts a perspective on which to balance our fears.

 

Im guessing that most flight simmers have been in “different circles” (shall we say) than those in the gaming world and haven’t had as much exposure to this kind of setup.  By necessity with P3D, Xplane, FSX we had to manage our entire scenery library and often enjoyed doing so.  The streamed setup can seem foreign and a bit threatening to the control we’ve been accustomed to.  My point is just that server/cloud based designs are here to stay and have shown to be quite successful.  I’m not losing too much sleep worrying about MS “pulling the plug” - at least not within the typical lifespan of the sim platform.

 

For companies like Orbx, i still see an incredible amount of opportuniy.  I feel like the Bing data that MSFS streams gives you about 80% of the detail you want in a world representation (less in certain areas in fact).  It’s the combo of this base with 3PD scenery that brings it closer to 100%.  The best cities for me right now are a mix of photogrammetry and Orbx hand crafted buildings.  And there’s no ceiling on where this can go with a little creativity, e.g. giving a virtual safari tour in a helicopter in the Okavango Delta

 

With the Xbox release I see this culture merge continuing and those in the gaming community are unlikely to worry too much about the reliance on a central server.  For its part I welcome the merge.  It’s an exciting time to be a gamer interested in learning to sim … and an exciting time to be a simmer looking to add a bit more

fun to the simulation experience!

[Orbx Flyer]

2 hours ago, Seanmo said:

Same here. MSFS will always be my sim of choice and the flightsim world is moving forward. This understandably has created anger among some of those who are still using the older platforms, and some have invoked the age-old tactic of fear/uncertainty/doubt (FUD) as each of their previous criticisms has been addressed by Asobo. Suggesting that MSFT "could" abandon the incredibly successful platform is FUD. MS isn't going to abandon MSFS (a showcase for Azure/Bing) and, even if they did, we would still be able to use it AND companies like Orbx could make new imagery to make up for anything lost from Bing. It is disappointing but hardly surprising to see someone resort to that, but the truth is that FlightSim runs fine (though not as pretty) without streaming and if you don't understand that, please don't spread misinformation about it.

 

Now back to flying my "new" study-level DC-6 into Kai-Tak.

I didn't spread 'anything'.  I made a point. The point...despite your allusion that it was a tactic...(!?!?!?!?!?!?),  to spread misinformation....what misinformation?  Specify...  I have seen M.S. abandon two flight sim platforms, that had users...and is that 'misinformation' as well.  My point...stated again...with no 'fear'...or 'emotion'...is that with my example of P3D,  it would not be a bad idea, to have it fully stocked as your fully self-contained BACK UP flight sim platform, if FOR ANY REASON,  MSFS dependent upon a Real Time  Scenery Server would not be available for a flight sequence.  Nothing more.  What exactly,  was misinformative regarding that point?

 

Cheers,

 

Let's not get this thread locked with what was a person's 'intent', other than what was actually posted.  That's what gets threads locked. The other contributors of their thoughts, would NOT get a thread locked.  

 

O.F.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Orbx Flyer

[Orbx Flyer]

Thanks to all for expressing your opinions.  Cheers!

[BradB]

1 hour ago, bwestenhofer said:

I feel like there is a bit of a culture merge going on between the gaming world and the simulation enthusiasts.  By that I am not making any statement about whether our hobby is a “sim” or a “game” which is a pointless argument, imho.  What I mean is that the gaming world has had a lot more exposure to systems entirely dependent on “the cloud,” or at least a server side connection.  Multiplayer role playing games like “World of Warcraft” has been running continuously for 17 years now.  With games like these there is absolutely no ability to do anything without a connection to the server (unlike MSFS which can in fact still run with a more generic representation of the world or a preloaded cache).  Does that guarantee anything with MS?  Of course not, but it at least puts a perspective on which to balance our fears.

 

Im guessing that most flight simmers have been in “different circles” (shall we say) than those in the gaming world and haven’t had as much exposure to this kind of setup.  By necessity with P3D, Xplane, FSX we had to manage our entire scenery library and often enjoyed doing so.  The streamed setup can seem foreign and a bit threatening to the control we’ve been accustomed to.  My point is just that server/cloud based designs are here to stay and have shown to be quite successful.  I’m not losing too much sleep worrying about MS “pulling the plug” - at least not within the typical lifespan of the sim platform.

 

For companies like Orbx, i still see an incredible amount of opportuniy.  I feel like the Bing data that MSFS streams gives you about 80% of the detail you want in a world representation (less in certain areas in fact).  It’s the combo of this base with 3PD scenery that brings it closer to 100%.  The best cities for me right now are a mix of photogrammetry and Orbx hand crafted buildings.  And there’s no ceiling on where this can go with a little creativity, e.g. giving a virtual safari tour in a helicopter in the Okavango Delta

 

With the Xbox release I see this culture merge continuing and those in the gaming community are unlikely to worry too much about the reliance on a central server.  For its part I welcome the merge.  It’s an exciting time to be a gamer interested in learning to sim … and an exciting time to be a simmer looking to add a bit more

fun to the simulation experience!

+1 -

 

Cheers

John

[ThrottleUp]

 

I can understand where you are coming from but at the same time I'm not concerned. MS is a multi billion dollar global juggernaut and they have pulled out all the stops for MSFS. Only they can deploy the triple whammy of Asobo Studio, Azure & Black Shark AI to deliver a believable 1:1 Earth. By necessity it will be impossible to store the global satellite info locally and it has to be streamed offsite. The scenery is amazing for low and slow back country flying. 

 

There are plenty of online games that have been running for years without problems and MSFS will be the same. 

 

The Xbox Series X version will be coming out soon which means even more players will be on MSFS. So they have invested a lot in setting this all up and I honestly do not worry about things going downhill with the servers and such. Also you can keep flying even if you lose the internet connection - and even offline MSFS looks miles better than my FSX ever did.

 

Check this vid out. I have set the start time to the relevant point (4:36) so just hit the Play button 

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by ThrottleUp

[Jack Sawyer]

7 minutes ago, ThrottleUp said:

 

I can understand where you are coming from but at the same time I'm not concerned. MS is a multi billion dollar global juggernaut and they have pulled out all the stops for MSFS. Only they can deploy the triple whammy of Asobo Studio, Azure & Black Shark AI to deliver a believable 1:1 Earth. By necessity it will be impossible to store the global satellite info locally and it has to be streamed offsite. The scenery is amazing for low and slow back country flying. 

 

There are plenty of online games that have been running for years without problems and MSFS will be the same. 

 

The Xbox Series X version will be coming out soon which means even more players will be on MSFS. So they have invested a lot in setting this all up and I honestly do not worry about things going downhill with the servers and such. Also you can keep flying even if you lose the internet connection - and even offline MSFS looks miles better than my FSX ever did.

 

Check this vid out. I have set the start time to the relevant point (4:36) so just hit the Play button 

 

 

 

All valid points.  However, I wonder if they’re making a mistake going to a gaming platform.  It makes good business sense to do this for profit but I just can’t see the younger generation who live and breathe multiplayer shooting games enjoying something like a flight simulator.  They may get bored, and if they do they may leave a bad review on Steam.  I’ve seen great games on Steam go to the electronic graveyard because of bad reviews.  Just my two cents, no offense intended to anyone reading.  I plan on buying MSFS and Orbx’s stuff as soon as my planes are ready for it.

[ThrottleUp]

4 minutes ago, Jack Sawyer said:

All valid points.  However, I wonder if they’re making a mistake going to a gaming platform.  It makes good business sense to do this for profit but I just can’t see the younger generation who live and breathe multiplayer shooting games enjoying something like a flight simulator.  They may get bored, and if they do they may leave a bad review on Steam.  I’ve seen great games on Steam go to the electronic graveyard because of bad reviews.  Just my two cents, no offense intended to anyone reading.  I plan on buying MSFS and Orbx’s stuff as soon as my planes are ready for it.

 

Yes it will be up against aerial shooters like Ace Combat. There will be a group of gamers who will find it fun and I see it being used a lot as a virtual world tourism simulator. Once its realized that MSFS gives a satellite mapped photoreal 1:1 Earth then people will be touring Icelandic volcanoes, Nazca lines in Peru, Galapagos Islands, Amazon rainforests, Himalayas etc on huge 4K TVs and such. The landing challenges is something that will keep people hooked and even better if we could make our own and share online (like what GTA5 does where you can design your own races and upload them).

 

But the best part of a console release is that it will expose even more people to aviation and somewhere amongst all those players will the few who think "I wanna be a pilot" and that can only be a good thing 

[Jack Sawyer]

1 minute ago, ThrottleUp said:

 

Yes it will be up against aerial shooters like Ace Combat. There will be a group of gamers who will find it fun and I see it being used a lot as a virtual world tourism simulator. Once its realized that MSFS gives a satellite mapped photoreal 1:1 Earth then people will be touring Icelandic volcanoes, Nazca lines in Peru, Galapagos Islands, Amazon rainforests, Himalayas etc on huge 4K TVs and such. The landing challenges is something that will keep people hooked and even better if we could make our own and share online (like what GTA5 does where you can design your own races and upload them).

 

But the best part of a console release is that it will expose even more people to aviation and somewhere amongst all those players will the few who think "I wanna be a pilot" and that can only be a good thing 

Excellent points!