active OrbxEarth Florida huge performance impact around Miami

[MacD]

After buying OrbxEarth Florida yesterday, I've bin flying around for a couple of hours to check things out.
It look absolutly great. (and that's coming from someone who wasn't even intending to purchase Florida)

There's one thing :
When you get close to Miami (say around 30 to 50 kilometres around) fps and frametimes drop like a stone.
FPS around Miami (and in Miami) sometimes don't get higher then 19 fps.
Outside of Miami, I'm getting a comfortable 50 to 60 fps

I've seen the same problem with EGLC before it got updated, EGLC was a fps/framerate killer 
(Don't know what was changed in the update, PBR ? )

Is it possible to take a look at  this, because in this condition everything around Miami becomes unusable.

[Jon Clarke]

Performance will be governed by your PC specs including Disk type and speed. Miami is a CityScape and as such is much more detailed than regular city scenery and with lots of autogen/objects and Custom POIs. It will therefore more demanding on your system.

It is not a Bug. I don't know what your XP settings are but one thing that will increase your fps in heavy areas is lowering temporarily your AA settings. Unlike Texture Quality which requires a restart of XP after a change in setting level, AA can be done on the fly. Try it and see if it improves your situation.

@Nick Cooper This is not a BUG

[Nick Cooper]

Hello Jon,

done.

Just for your information,

I have made changes to the BUG REPORT forum so that this text appears when

Start New Topic is selected.

 

Quote

 

You are about to post into the X Plane 11 BUG REPORT forum. This forum is for reporting BUGS in a working Orbx X Plane 11 product.

A BUG is defined as a product that is working as it should but there is a problem with the working product.

Please review your request before posting into this forum.

A request for support with a product that does not work should be placed into the X Plane 11 Support forum.

 

 

To post a topic without this text, it must first be deleted by the topic author.

[MacD]

3 hours ago, Jon Clarke said:

Performance will be governed by your PC specs including Disk type and speed. Miami is a CityScape and as such is much more detailed than regular city scenery and with lots of autogen/objects and Custom POIs. It will therefore more demanding on your system.

It is not a Bug. I don't know what your XP settings are but one thing that will increase your fps in heavy areas is lowering temporarily your AA settings. Unlike Texture Quality which requires a restart of XP after a change in setting level, AA can be done on the fly. Try it and see if it improves your situation.

@Nick Cooper This is not a BUG

To answer you're reply : 
I've already tried decreasing AA, from 4*SSAA to FXAA : didn't do anything.
Tried decreasing texture quality : from maximum to high : again no difference.

FPS doesn't go over 21 fps, frame rate drops in the + 0.550 area

Around Tampa I've noticed the same problem : the closer you get to the amusement park, the bigger the fps and frame rate drop.

If you change settings and there isn't any change : it's a bug to me.

PS :
My desktop :
i7 9700k @ 4.9Ghz
Asus Prime Z390-A motherboard
Corsair LPX 32Gb DDR4 3000Mhz
Samsung 970  2TB Evo Plus PCI-E SSD as X-Plane 11 disk and a Samsung 860 Evo 2Tb SATA SSD as Orbx libary disk
Inno3D RTX 2080Ti iChill Black videocard

[Jon Clarke]

Sorry about your problems as your PC specs seem fine. This problem is not technically a BUG as far as the product is concerned as everyone would be seeing/having the same issue. BUGs are normally defined as visual anomalies, trees on building etc. See the vast majority of posts in the BUG forum. Just needed to clarify that point.

Loading times and fps rates are governed by your PC hardware specs, XP settings, number of processes running in the background and content of the programme you are running. In this case XP around Miami.

What are your XP settings and screen resolution? The settings will determine performance and there is no one setting suits all scenarios as you are no doubt aware. Take London and LA as good examples.

 

[Jon Clarke]

There are also large fps impacts caused by the type of detail in the plane you are flying and on the view being used. I notice that in the cockpit of the default Cirrus my fps drops by 10 fps if the view includes the instrument panels, rises by about 7fps if the view is wholly through the cockpit windows, and rises by another 10fps when in spot view. That is in a basic default XP jet. In a Cessna I have no real variations. What plane are you flying that is bringing you the fps rates you are referring to?

[MacD]

Thank you for you're reply Jon.

That aircraft can have a heavy impact on fps/frame times is know to me
Till now i've tried X-tridents AB412 (the normal and the SwissCreations conversion), Dreamfoils Bell 407,the Nimbus UH-1 and Just Flight model 76 Duchess : not the most heavy models.
(Not even gonna try the Zibo 737 or Airfoillabs 350 King Air)
I'm mostly flying between 0 and 2000 feet, so X-Plane has to load everything in detail.

I'm using X-Plane 11.41 by the way, with a resolution of 3440*1440.
I'm trying to run X-Plane with Texture quality on high, 2*SSAA+FFAA with world objects on max 
(Yes, these are real high settings for a desktop : even mine)

What I've done till now :
I've removed all the scenery expect Orbx out of the Custom scenery map : purely to see if it wasn't anything else that was causing the performance impact around Miami and Tampa.
It didn't make a difference : situation was the same.

I still wanna try moving UltraWeather XP and LiveTraffic out of X-Plane and see if this makes a big difference.

PS :
As I said in the start post : I've seen this before with the first version of EGLC.
In the first version of EGLC there was something that made EGLC eat performance 
You could change texture quality or anti-analising : it didn't make a difference, it stayed at 17/18 fps

With EGLC installed : 17/18 fps in London
Without EGLC : a decent 30 fps inside of London (without changing settings)
(Again : I don't know what was changed during the update of EGLC)

I'm thinking the same is going on around Miami and Tampa : it isn't the amount of objects but a couple of objects that make fps take a stage dive.
 

[Tony Wroblewski]

1 minute ago, MacD said:

I'm thinking the same is going on around Miami and Tampa : it isn't the amount of objects but a couple of objects that make fps take a stage dive.

 

It's very likely the number of POIs here and the textures somehow exhausting your GPU's memory and causing the slow down. However for such a powerful GPU I'm really surprised to see this since I only have a 1080 and I'm not seeing anywhere near a drop like that.

 

I don't think you mentioned whether you're using the HD or SD version. The SD version will give better performance at the cost of lowering the texture resolution. If you have the HD version, you can also use the SD version.

 

If you go to Miami and then open your settings, XP should tell you just under the texture settings just how much memory is being used for textures. If this is higher than what your GPU has, then you'll get stuttering and slow downs.

 

 

 

[MacD]

18 minutes ago, Tony Wroblewski said:

 

It's very likely the number of POIs here and the textures somehow exhausting your GPU's memory and causing the slow down. However for such a powerful GPU I'm really surprised to see this since I only have a 1080 and I'm not seeing anywhere near a drop like that.

 

I don't think you mentioned whether you're using the HD or SD version. The SD version will give better performance at the cost of lowering the texture resolution. If you have the HD version, you can also use the SD version.

 

If you go to Miami and then open your settings, XP should tell you just under the texture settings just how much memory is being used for textures. If this is higher than what your GPU has, then you'll get stuttering and slow downs.

 

 

 

Thanks Tony, that's what I mean  
I couldn't put it in the right wording to explain , but yes that's what I mean  thank you
(English isn't my first language : it takes some time for me to get use writing in English, sorry) 

And you're right : last night I did a new try around Miami and Tampa with NZXT CAM opened in the background to see what the CPU and GPU are doing.
Outside both these cities the CPU has around 60 to 70% load with the GPU around 80/90%
When in Miami and Tampa the load for the CPU drops to around 35/40% and the load on the GPU takes a dive to around the same amount, which in turn makes the GPU clock down to around 1680Mhz
(Probably because the CPU isn't fast enough in supplying the GPU with rendering information , but that's just a guess)

NZXT CAM stated that memory usage when in Miami/Tampa was around 50%, but this is RAM memory not VRAM memory usage.
I'm gonna check what X-Plane  says and put it here.

I'm using Florida HD version by the way

[Jon Clarke]

@MacD Just for a test try lowering the screen resolution down a notch that is compatible with your monitor. I know if I try to fly in 4K ( I have a 4K monitor) I too would probably be crawling I notice very large difference in fps from 3840x2160 and 2560x1440 with higher graphics settings

[MacD]

Tony, Jon : here are some numbers:

Started up X-Plane 11 , helipad 89X just north of KMIA with the Dreamfoil 407 (cold and dark).
This is with real time weather and the actual time in Miami (04:50)

Fps +/- 20 with a frame time of +/-0.500
X-Plane states that is has 11787Mb of textures loaded

NZXT CAM :
CPU load is 37%, CPU speed is 4900Mhz on all cores
GPU has a 39% load maximum with the GPU speed changing between 1410 and 1510MHz
NZXT CAM states that 51% of RAM memory is used

[MacD]

23 minutes ago, Jon Clarke said:

@MacD Just for a test try lowering the screen resolution down a notch that is compatible with your monitor. I know if I try to fly in 4K ( I have a 4K monitor) I too would probably be crawling I notice very large difference in fps from 3840x2160 and 2560x1440 with higher graphics settings

Gonna give a try Jon

[edit]
Okay, changed resolution from 3440*1440 to 2560*1080
Fps is around 29 when looking at KMIA, frame times around 0.340, so it's better.
Only the textures are horrible : everything is "blocky" and jagged

So increased AA to first 4*SSAA and then 4*SSAA+FXAA : no change in texture quality still looking like it's all blocks and jagged lines.
FPS and frame times did again plunge : 22/23 fps with a frame time of 0.400
So right back were I started...

[fortunjj]

My intention is not to hijack the thread... I have a similarly high performance rig so I might be able to help based on my experience. Frame rates at 4K drop significantly around KMIA and KFLL, particularly when both are in view. I get greater than 30 FPS in general throughout most of the rest of Florida and 15 FPS near KMIA and KFLL. So I have exactly the same symptoms as the OP. I'm also using a 2080ti and VRAM is not exhausted - usage is around 80 percent. GPU usage was not all that high. The limiting factor here was CPU usage. I'm quite sure that the problem is simply the number of objects being drawn. This is a known problem with OpenGL, X-Plane and the limited way that threading can be used. So, TBH, I don't think there is any fix for this. The only thing that would help is a radical change in the number of objects to be drawn, which would kind of defeat the purpose of this high fidelity scenery. 

 

One last point... I have never found that switching to 1080p resolution makes any difference when using a 2080ti because the sim is CPU limited and at 1080p one needs a LOT more anti-aliasing, which increases the CPU load in X-Plane. So in the end it is close to a wash. Therefore I simply do not believe that anyone is getting 30 fps near KMIA and KFLL with this scenery unless their graphics settings are unreasonably low, 1080p or not. On a positive note, I think that this scenery is a very good candidate for substantial improvement with Vulkan and that may be the only option here. I have a few scenery packages that challenge the performance of X-Plane - TrueEarth Cali, CYYZ and this. I like all of these simply because they provide test cases for the performance of my system. Unfortunately, they do tend to be almost unusable at certain locations.

 

I hope that helps provide another - similar - perspective.

[Jon Clarke]

@fortunjj Welcome to the forums.

"Therefore I simply do not believe that anyone is getting 30 fps near KMIA".

This is also very dependant on what view is being shown and what plane is being flown. 

2 pics below show it is possible to have up to and over 30fps in the KMIA area with the SD version, and my PC specs and XP settings.

XP settings as previously posted:

 

In cockpit view of Cirrus jet. Almost 34 fps

 

Spot view at almost 31 fps with Traffic Global running the ai traffic.

 

I do however agree with all your other points

[fortunjj]

Interesting... This scenery seems to be particularly dependent on the reflections setting. From the same location you showed above with the same plane fps ranged from less than 20 to about 35 with reflections changed from max to min. Note for the OP - turn reflections to min if you haven't already done so. Perhaps it is just a result of many buildings reflecting on the water...

 

So, I have to rescind my previous statement. With a high end rig it is possible to have frame rates that stay above 30 provided that you keep reflections at min. Not ideal, because I do like to use some dynamic reflections, but a reasonable work around. 

[Jon Clarke]

6 hours ago, fortunjj said:

Interesting... This scenery seems to be particularly dependent on the reflections setting. From the same location you showed above with the same plane fps ranged from less than 20 to about 35 with reflections changed from max to min. Note for the OP - turn reflections to min if you haven't already done so. Perhaps it is just a result of many buildings reflecting on the water...

 

So, I have to rescind my previous statement. With a high end rig it is possible to have frame rates that stay above 30 provided that you keep reflections at min. Not ideal, because I do like to use some dynamic reflections, but a reasonable work around. 

Reflections are an absolute fps killer and widely acknowledged as so. You have to adjust settings according to the amount of detail of the addon. TE Florida has a highly detailed Miami CityScape which is also by the water, so a combination of high spec buildings and a higher than Low reflections setting will cause a significant fps loss. One good aspect to bear in mind is that adjusting reflections, screen resolution, AA & HDR settings can be done on the fly and don't require a scenario reload. The changes are instant. The exception to this is any adjustment to Texture Quality will require a XP exit and restart in order for the changes to be made. So you can make  quick and temporary changes to some settings inflight when your system begins to show signs of stress and then quickly revert back to your preferred settings after leaving the "stress" area.

[MacD]

11 hours ago, fortunjj said:

Interesting... This scenery seems to be particularly dependent on the reflections setting. From the same location you showed above with the same plane fps ranged from less than 20 to about 35 with reflections changed from max to min. Note for the OP - turn reflections to min if you haven't already done so. Perhaps it is just a result of many buildings reflecting on the water...

 

So, I have to rescind my previous statement. With a high end rig it is possible to have frame rates that stay above 30 provided that you keep reflections at min. Not ideal, because I do like to use some dynamic reflections, but a reasonable work around. 

I've got reflections turn off by default 

off-topic :
I'm am going to be a very happy person when Laminar releases they're Vulkan update.
No, I'm not expecting miracles, but if Vulcan manages to use multible cores on a CPU and a better usage of RAM memory it would be great.
Just a 10 to 15% fps/frametime increase at busy/large airports would make a lot of area's more usable

on-topic
The thing I don't quit understand with the impact in Florida :
I've got close to every thing Orbx released for X-Plane.
One city I've had trouble with was London, but as I've already said a couple of times, this was caused by EGLC

With Orbx Washington (I'm using the HD version with the seperate add-on and Drzewiecki Design Seattle airports) I'm still getting a good 30 to 33 fps at KBFI with bad weather.
When I look at Seattle and surrounding cities, it looks bigger (read more buildings) then Miami.
What is the difference between Seattle and Miami ?

@Jon Clarke
Looking at the specification of your desktop and the settings your using in X-Plane I'm very suprised you still get such high fps/framerates
You're using the SD version of Florida , what is the difference between the SD version and the HD version ?
(Beside the disk size and Ortho ZL size)
Less buildings ? (or less PIO buildings)

[Nick Cooper]

Hello,

besides what you have already stated, nothing.

[servaasd]

Same here. Running Xplane 11.50b9 on i9 9900k 5.0ghz, 32gb 3200mhz and 1080ti. High fps all around miami, but if I look at Miami int airport fps drops like a brick. 

[wolfko]

For me, when flying over any densly built up city like Miami performance is mostly related to the reflection settings. With the slider on the lowest reflection setting fully to the left I will get between 25 and 30 fps over Miami, Seattle, Portland... And this with an ancient i5 2500k @4.3 Ghz, AA fully to the right (8x..) with a 1070 GTX.

By moving the reflection slider just one notch to the right my fps will drop below 20.

 

Edit: that's inside the cockpit of the default Baron or C172. XP 1.41

 

 

[wolfko]

A correction to my above post. I have to decrase AA by one notch when flying close to or through dense cloud layers. It is convenient that one can do this on the fly in XP, however increasing AA back to max once out of the clouds will sometimes result in a CTD creating an error message about some Open GL error.

[servaasd]

Still having the same issues with the Miami int airport. smooth sailing all the way, but when looking at miami int airport, frames drop and even cause CTD...Still having the same issues with the Miami int airport. smooth sailing all the way, but when looking at miami int airport, frames drop and even cause CTD...

 

 

TGXP: Loaded 0 excluded airports.
TGXP: Loaded 0 excluded airlines.
0:55:29.604 E/GFX/VK: Memory heap 0 has overstepped its budget!
0:55:29.604 E/GFX/VK: Heap usage is 7929438208, heap budget is 5138556928
0:55:29.604 E/GFX/VK: Sitting at 38 deletions, the defragmenter is NOT running!
0:55:29.777 E/GFX/VK: Notifying user that heap 0 has overstepped its budget
0:55:29.777 E/GFX/VK: Heap usage is 7929438208, heap budget is 5177257984
0:55:30.780 I/TEX: Target scale moved to 4.000000
0:55:30.833 I/MEM: Entered regular memory pressure state
0:55:31.030 W/MEM: Entered heavy memory pressure state
0:55:31.207 I/TEX: Target scale moved to 2.000000
0:55:46.796 I/MEM: Entered regular memory pressure state
0:55:47.118 I/TEX: Target scale moved to 0.500000
0:55:47.169 I/MEM: Entered negative memory pressure state
0:56:09.433 I/TEX: Target scale moved to 8.000000
0:56:39.442 E/GFX/VK: Memory heap 0 has overstepped its budget!
0:56:39.442 E/GFX/VK: Heap usage is 7929438208, heap budget is 5174669312
0:56:39.442 E/GFX/VK: Sitting at 625 deletions, the defragmenter is running!
0:56:40.627 E/GFX/VK: Notifying user that heap 0 has overstepped its budget
0:56:40.627 E/GFX/VK: Heap usage is 7976230912, heap budget is 5178142720
0:56:41.289 I/MEM: Entered regular memory pressure state
0:56:41.740 W/MEM: Entered heavy memory pressure state

[Jon Clarke]

7 hours ago, servaasd said:

Still having the same issues with the Miami int airport. smooth sailing all the way, but when looking at miami int airport, frames drop and even cause CTD...Still having the same issues with the Miami int airport. smooth sailing all the way, but when looking at miami int airport, frames drop and even cause CTD...

 

 

TGXP: Loaded 0 excluded airports.
TGXP: Loaded 0 excluded airlines.
0:55:29.604 E/GFX/VK: Memory heap 0 has overstepped its budget!
0:55:29.604 E/GFX/VK: Heap usage is 7929438208, heap budget is 5138556928
0:55:29.604 E/GFX/VK: Sitting at 38 deletions, the defragmenter is NOT running!
0:55:29.777 E/GFX/VK: Notifying user that heap 0 has overstepped its budget
0:55:29.777 E/GFX/VK: Heap usage is 7929438208, heap budget is 5177257984
0:55:30.780 I/TEX: Target scale moved to 4.000000
0:55:30.833 I/MEM: Entered regular memory pressure state
0:55:31.030 W/MEM: Entered heavy memory pressure state
0:55:31.207 I/TEX: Target scale moved to 2.000000
0:55:46.796 I/MEM: Entered regular memory pressure state
0:55:47.118 I/TEX: Target scale moved to 0.500000
0:55:47.169 I/MEM: Entered negative memory pressure state
0:56:09.433 I/TEX: Target scale moved to 8.000000
0:56:39.442 E/GFX/VK: Memory heap 0 has overstepped its budget!
0:56:39.442 E/GFX/VK: Heap usage is 7929438208, heap budget is 5174669312
0:56:39.442 E/GFX/VK: Sitting at 625 deletions, the defragmenter is running!
0:56:40.627 E/GFX/VK: Notifying user that heap 0 has overstepped its budget
0:56:40.627 E/GFX/VK: Heap usage is 7976230912, heap budget is 5178142720
0:56:41.289 I/MEM: Entered regular memory pressure state
0:56:41.740 W/MEM: Entered heavy memory pressure state

I can only repeat that the airport is not an Orbx airport. I have shown in my pics that I can get 30+ in both cockpit and spot view. I have linked an alternative airport version.

My XP settings are in the pic below and I run in 4K hence the lower AA setting than if I was in  lower resolution.

 

 

 

Lastly there is this post explaining the the impact of reflections.

 

On 2/8/2020 at 10:54 PM, fortunjj said:

Interesting... This scenery seems to be particularly dependent on the reflections setting. From the same location you showed above with the same plane fps ranged from less than 20 to about 35 with reflections changed from max to min. Note for the OP - turn reflections to min if you haven't already done so. Perhaps it is just a result of many buildings reflecting on the water...

 

So, I have to rescind my previous statement. With a high end rig it is possible to have frame rates that stay above 30 provided that you keep reflections at min. Not ideal, because I do like to use some dynamic reflections, but a reasonable work around. 

 

[servaasd]

just tested with only this as scenery:

 

I
1000 Version
SCENERY

SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/KMIA by Frypilot v6.2/
SCENERY_PACK G:\Orbx_A_US_Florida_TE_Custom/
SCENERY_PACK G:\Orbx_B_US_Florida_TE_Overlay/
SCENERY_PACK G:\Orbx_C_US_Florida_TE_Orthos/
 

Still having low fps when flying over KMIA (also without KMIA by Frypilot). Much lower fps than all around, even with reflections turned up and flying around the coast of miami with buildings reflecting in the water.

 

All this tested in VR btw