Russ White Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 Here is a sneak peak at my upgrade to Carenado's Mooney M20J that i am currently working on. Remember this is work in progress, so what you see here is not the finnished article, there are many more additions to be implemented yet, and much tweaking before it's finnished. Just wanted to hear what my fellow flight sim community thinks so far? This work represents more hours that i can count, and is still on going, but i have found it to be very enjoyable. Carenado's 3D model for this aircraft is fantastic to work textures for. My goal is to as realistically as possible re-create the interior of the Mooney for perfect slow and low circuits over FTX scenery. With FTX providing such quality visuals outside the aircraft, i wanted to compliment that with quality views inside the aircraft, and no payware aircrafts come with this level of texture detail, so i thought i would do it myself! I am also adding simulated diffused lighting to the cockpit interior by creating shadowing in appropriate places on the texture tiles, that correspond to 3D objects in the sim. I have to say at this point, the project would not have been possible without the massive help from fellow forum member "squeeker" who made many visits to the cockpit of a real M20J taking masses of digital photo's of every component i required, enabling me to work them into FSX textures. (Thanks again Steve!) The four shots below provide a snapshot of progress so far, i will post again in the coming weeks when it is completed! Your thoughts are welcomed! Russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnip Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 Nice. Is the Mooney payware? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Venema Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Very, very nice work indeed. That's really quite realistic. May have to get the Mooney just to enjoy your handiwork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyk Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 If that's the work in progress I can't wait to see the finished product! It's already a big advance on the standard cockpit (which was alreday pretty good)! I hope you will make it available to everyone when it's finished. Great job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweaker Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Looking very nice mate. I hope you share when you are finished Great update tothe default Carenado Mooney panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teecee Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Not to be a downer.. but Carenado are shit hot on copyright.. be careful.. maybe check with them.. Teecee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squeeker Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Brilliant Russ. This is already a great payware aircraft that I would recommend to everyone, but what an enhancement! Your cockpit is more realistic than I could have imagined. You've done an exceptional job of capturing the worn and faded look of a real Mooney. The carpets, seat fabric, vinyl armrests etc - are all on the money. I have just been flipping between the stock virtual cockpit and your shots and the difference is astonishing. On the legal note, I have been looking at the "Upload policy and Copyrights Mooney M20J" and it appears to focus only on exterior repaints. Seems the flavour of it is that they don't want their property posted for free to the net. I'm far from a lawyer but I would guess that in the worst case just sharing textures privately between people who already own the Mooney wouldn't be a big deal. I guess shooting Carenado an email couldn't hurt? Any lawyers on the forum? Keep us all posted with your progress. It's hard to think it could get much better. On a similar note I'm in the process of "modifying" Carenado FSX repaints for Moonies operated by RACWA (Royal Aero Club of WA) out of Jandakot YPJT. There are 6 different aircraft in total, with most now sharing a similar scheme, but different colours. This makes for around 9 repaints, as some older paintjobs for the same aircraft have also been included. The painting of these is not my work. FULL CREDIT should go to "Reckless" of the VOZ forums, who did an outstanding job on the paint - the Moonies look uncannily like the real aircraft. All I have done is put them in a form that FSX will recognise. I also "weathered" VH-UDQ as it is a little beat-up in reality. More of Reckless' great exterior paint work can be seen here (these are for FS2004) http://vistaoz.org/smf/index.php?topic=10875.0 http://vistaoz.org/smf/index.php?topic=10786.0 Once I've got them all ready for FSX i'll up them to AVSIM VH-UDQ VH-SPN and VH-SOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ White Posted June 2, 2008 Author Share Posted June 2, 2008 Thanks for your comments so far guys, really appreciate the support! and to get the thumbs up from John venema, wow! Teecee, thanks for your comment mate, i had not even thought there would be a legal issue, maybe this is worth following up, i dont want to get into hot water over this! i thought though that as you have to already have paid for the Carenado mooney to use this mod it wouldnt be a problem. But maybe an email to Carenado wont harm. I have heard though that Carenado are difficult to get hold of, so will have to see what happens. Squeeker, thanks for your comments mate, will keep you posted! nice looking exterior shots by the way. Cheers guys, Russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hockings Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Outstanding looking work, and look forward to getting them for my Mooney!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailgunner Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 My Mooney's getting excited already ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwlee Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 That interior looks fantastic - any before pics to compare to? I checked the Carenado site - their interior is pretty good but yours is better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ White Posted June 2, 2008 Author Share Posted June 2, 2008 Hey markwlee That interior looks fantastic - any before pics to compare to? Thats a good idea mate, next update i will do a before and after comp! those screenshots have been sampled down to 800 pixels wide from 1920! so some of the more subtle effects are not so visible here, for example the dirty rubber seals round the inside edge of the window frames and the detail in the plastic surfaces etc! To answer Turnip's question, yes the mooney M20J for FSX is payware from Carenado, one of the best payware aircraft i have ever bought! along with the digital aviation DO27! Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grocs Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Very impressive - it looks so real! Well done - keep up the good work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Kae Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Impressive... most impressive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Hall Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Great work there, I am amazed to hear all this legal s!#t, I would have thought that they would encourage people to use there product. You are not giving away the model just a repaint. If I buy a real aircraft It's mine and I can paint it any colour I like, and I can paint my mates to if he wants me to, so why should this be so different. I'd be curious to find out how it goes, As I like to dabble in repaints, and if there gonna be difficult I'll steer clear of any of there products, I'm shaking my head as I type this It just seems so petty I know how much your enjoying the repaint, it would be such a shame if your not allowed to share it with your mates all the best with it cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmrich28 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 as long as there is no $ being changed hands, I say do what you please imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josedav Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Russ, let me add my congrats on this remarkable accomplishment... I had been contemplating the purchase of this aircraft but wasn't really that sure, until this thread... After seeing these pics, my wife is eagerly waiting to join me in the front seat of the Mooney over the beautiful landscapes of FTX!! Great boost for Carenado and what a great opportunity- to enlarge their customer base while at the same time solidifying confidence and goodwill...they should come on this forum in a heartbeat and give you the accolades you deserve!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrajag Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 as long as there is no $ being changed hands, I say do what you please imo Depending on your country though that can get you a criminal record plus a minimum of hundreds of thousands in 'damages'. Look at the RIAA for an excellent example. From some of the vendors it I know it is ok to modify as long as you distribute non of their files, which includes modified versions of their files. Some vendors, like Arianne will automatically disable your license if you modify a file. There is often a huge difference between: 1. What is 'reasonable' for fair use 2. What is allowed by licensing 3. What us allowed by the law in your country I would have been considered a music pirate for years because I ripped my CDs to MP3s to play on my MP3 player. I paid for them but it was still a criminal activity in some parts of the 'free' world. As it looks so good I would contact the vendor and get permission. If they don't want to give it and you really want it distributed then offer it to them for distribution (tell em to not charge for it if you like). That way 'they' are distributing it so can't complain ) Steven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmrich28 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 i hope that's not the case... Being from Canada we'd laugh at someone trying to give a criminal record for something so crazy. Oh well, I hope it works out for Russ so we can all enjoy his work now and in the future. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heiko Glatthorn Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 O.k., that's it... I'll get that Mooney Russ, did you remove or reduce this very strong window tint as well ? That's always a little to much with the Carenado birds. Thanks for all your great work ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ White Posted June 3, 2008 Author Share Posted June 3, 2008 Thanks again guys for your comments, Russ, did you remove or reduce this very strong window tint as well ? That's always a little to much with the Carenado birds. Yes Mango, that was one of the first things to go! the tint has been much reduced and the windows have been given a lot of attention to add detail, such as dirty rubber seals around the frames, as well as light scratching and dirt etc, my next progress report will include a screen shot of the glass effects! Russ, let me add my congrats on this remarkable accomplishment... I had been contemplating the purchase of this aircraft but wasn't really that sure, until this thread... After seeing these pics, my wife is eagerly waiting to join me in the front seat of the Mooney over the beautiful landscapes of FTX!! Great boost for Carenado and what a great opportunity- to enlarge their customer base while at the same time solidifying confidence and goodwill...they should come on this forum in a heartbeat and give you the accolades you deserve!!! Josedav, many thanks for your comments above mate, i really appreciate the feedback from my fellow flight sim community, a big thankyou to everyone for your contribution to this thread. I have sent an email to Carenado, but as i suspected have heard nothing back yet (3 days ago now!) I know a lot of you guys want to use this mod when it is finnished but all this legal talk is getting me a little twitchy! I would love to give you guys the opportunity to make use of my handy work, but as i am sure you understand i am not going to put myself in a possition where i face legal action, a real SHAME! not just for me but for everyone. However i do own an internet domain outright, so i have the ability to host my own downloads which may come in handy at some point Keep in touch guys, Russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heiko Glatthorn Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Awesome ! Please let us know when and where you'll publish the file . Hope Carenado won't get picky here... Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmglads Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Russ, that's just great stuff. My one "moan" about Carenado (apart from the fact they don't use PayPal) is the heavily tinted cockpits on their aircraft, of which I have several. I've just invested in the Mooney, looking forward to flying it tonight after work. Will eagerly anticipate seeing the finished result, although to be perfectly honest, it looks finished to me! Cheers, Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwolb Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 yea, I already have the Mooney, and this looks great,nice work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heiko Glatthorn Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 I just found the Upload policy and Copyrights Mooney M20J.pdf in the Mooney folder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teecee Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 So is the news good or bad?? you know I think you should keep sending copies of the email you sent them every day, and keep copies of this fact..they will have to answer you eventually..and if they do not................. Teecee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penzoil3 Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Ok, read the Mooney file. This is not "for a commercial purpose" is it? But then there's the bit about not dissassembling without permission... confusing isn't it. I hope they answer you. I want that cockpit too ! Especially the new glass ! Good Luck Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ White Posted June 4, 2008 Author Share Posted June 4, 2008 Well kind of predictably i have heard nothing from Carenado!!! i could try repeating the mail to them every day as mentioned above by teecee, but then i would just get put on their spam list anyway so i see no point in continuing to contact them! I will have to look at that pdf document you guys found and see what i make of it? This is such a kick in the teeth, as i would like to distibute this cockpit to contribute to the FS community, the pain is that you cant even use my mod unless you have already PAID Carenado for their plane! Several people on this thread now want to BUY Carenado's Mooney just for having seen my mod, so i am actually contributing to their sales! so why are they making it difficult for me? They should be encouraging this sort of thing, it would make good business sense to do so! Very confusing. Anyway, i shall of corse keep working on the cockpit, and probably many more after this one. As for making them available to everyone?......we will have to see i will do another progress posting soon to keep you all updated, some before and after shots will go down nicely i think! Russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teecee Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 I would like to see Koorby's input here.. if anyone would know about this type of copyright, he would.. I only started this line of thinking off because I recalled Carenado going after someone once before over just this subject.. Teecee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
}SkOrPn--7 Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 russwhite just screw Carenado and stop letting all the legal BS get too you if you want to do a repaint and people enjoy your work so much then just allow them access to the files you made. As you said people have now decided to get the product because of your work and that there has created sales so what are they so finicky about........... Just made them look like jackasses not responding to your emails with your concerns so teach em a lesson and don't buy there product any more too easy but that is just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolter van der Spoel Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Watch the thin line Mr. }SkOrPn--7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Kae Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Screw Carenado, are you insane?!?!?!!!! And as for calling people that you do not even know jacka&%es, this is NOT how we work here, Fernando happens to be a friend of mine and a reason that Fernando is not reacting is that life gets busy ya know, your opinion on these forums is not appreciated like this Skorpion and I would strongly suggest to pull your head in... again. I have alerted Fernando to this thread so just wait and see what he says ok? No need to go berserk until you actually have an answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice_King Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Ya beat me to it Jay, I have my own views on this Copyright Issue which is VERY complex to say the least, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Venema Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I've been asked for my opinion, but to be honest copyright is a complex issue subject to many cross-national laws and interpretation. All I can say is that after seeing Russell's outstanding work I (1) Invited him to work for Orbx, and (2) immediately purchased a copy of the Carenado Mooney 20J from the Flightsim Store. I guess that means Fernando got himself a sale just from the screenshots, and if he reads this thread, it may give him something to think about. I absolutely respect his rights and the rights of all developers to protect their IP, so I am not entering into the pros and cons of that argument. What I will say though, is that VOZ freeware and now FTX freeware forms the basis of a lot of goodwill in the FS community and I am a huge fan of freeware, both in making it, using it and enjoying it in the sim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ White Posted June 5, 2008 Author Share Posted June 5, 2008 The Orbx team members here are right, keep it sensible guys, after all the whole aim is to get Carenado on our side, not bad mouth them! Jay Kae, i did not know of the link between yourself and Carenado! i appreciate you informing them of this situation as that was most helpful to this cause. So lets see what happens, Thanks mate! Cheers guys, Russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ White Posted June 5, 2008 Author Share Posted June 5, 2008 I have just received a response on this subject from Carenado.......and it's a thumbs down guys! So i am sorry to all those who wanted to use my mod, as i certainly wanted to make it available to you all, but alas it is not to be :'( Russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Kae Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 It is ok Russ, we can see what you are capable off and that is all that counts as far as I am concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squeeker Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 It is ok Russ, we can see what you are capable off and that is all that counts as far as I am concerned. Here Here!! Maybe the crew at Carenado are secretly drafting a job offer as we speak Russ . It would be great to see some of your handiwork expressed in the ORBX products in future. I think the amount of interest in this thread is testament to the collective regard for your work. I'm sure that Carenado have their reasons for their decision, and it IS a great aircraft, just a shame for it not to be enhanced by such a stellar effort. Look forward to seeing your future masterpices mate. I've got some shots of a sweet Tigermoth that are begging to be applied to a model Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josedav Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Russ, congrats again---you've created quite a stir! Certainly there could be no higher compliment of your work than what has been demonstrated thus far, not only by your fellow simmers--but now by a world class, cutting edge company such as Orbx! I know I'm not alone when I say there's plenty of room at the "top" for gifted people like yourself, not only who love their work, but with an open and inspired heart - so willing and eager to share with others! Orbx, in setting this kind of standard, has achieved a status few companies could even dream of- building a rock solid foundation based on the admiration and respect of so many (like myself) around the world- whose lives are continuing to be enriched, not only by their amazing "state of the art" accomplishments, but by their unceasing, unselfish, efforts on behalf of their loyal following, to go the "extra miles"! Your being invited to work with such a select group can be nothing short of a "winner," not only for yourself, but for all who love flight sim as you obviously do! We all are excited about FTX and looking forward to a future where there seems to be no limit to the expanding possibilities of our virtual life... Giving people like yourself the platform you so richly deserve, is a sure and certain way to accomplish this very thing--thus making flight sim a richer experience for us all! I would only hope others on this forum take a look at your website---the detail in your graphical creations is amazing and what a contribution you have to make...you belong with the best! Thanks---for all you do... Highest regards, Joseph L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ White Posted June 5, 2008 Author Share Posted June 5, 2008 I have to admit to being blown away by the support from you guys on this forum, a really big thanks to all of you for your kind comments! I will keep you all updated. Many thanks, Russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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