Australian Airports

[Derek McAllan]

John, thankyou, that's the sort of answer I'd hoped for... something long term. 

[John York]

There's one thing I've just noticed.  Can someone please explain to me why it is deemed necessary to do YMML (2)?  Surely the original is good enough and while no expert, I can't see a lot of mileage in it from a financial point of view, especially if Orbx do what they say they're going to do before Christmas.  Apart from those rich people among us I would have thought we'll all have our hands in our pockets for the new stuff?

Of course it will be better in some way but it does seem wasted effort to me on a duplication no one's been really crying out for.

There are those amongst us who are always quick to rush to Orbx defence even when its not really needed, so for those sensitive ones, please don't take offence.  I'm just expressing an ignorant punters opinion.

John

[Bluemarlin]

:'( LOL,,,, 

OMG, this too funny !!

I see Strider has also put his money where his mouth is by the look of his signature. 

[Taph]

Hi,

Can understand both sides of the coin here. I do not live in Australia have never visited but now spend lots of time flying there. I have not been to PNW but also fly there.

For ORBX to remain in Business and produce the quality of software they do, that is what I believe we all want, I do not believe ORBX will  abandon anyone!

You have my support for which ever area of the world you produce. My wish is for an ORBX world and any way you get there suits me

Thanks for all your hard work and commitment

Taph

[normandean]

I can understand your disappointment, but your assumptions are not correct. Most of the original FTX AU sales came from Europe and the USA, not Australia, so in fact we have a stronger customer base outside Australia from day one. I believe we have gone above the call of duty to ensure there are a large number of both payware and freeware regions and airports for Australia, which did not reward the majority of our buyers outside Australia.

I realise that you did not right off future developemnt of Australian Scenery (and New Zealand), but whilst it is true that most of your client base is in Europe and the USA, including me and JohnY, the reason we buy ORBX products is because they give us superb scenery in Australia. We can't get that anywhere else. Although I have PNW and enjoy flying it, I have to say that it does not reach anywhere near the original standard that was laid down with the Au products.

So, whilst you obviously have to look at commercial realism, please do not loose sight of the original concept of the Oz experience.

Norman

[Jay Kae]

:'( LOL,,,, 

OMG, this too funny !!

Careful there lad, I am considering that to be putting oil on the fire. I have had a lot of complaint emails and PM's about your earlier post, so please don't push the limit here ok ?

You -->     <-- me

[Naki]

Although I have PNW and enjoy flying it, I have to say that it does not reach anywhere near the original standard that was laid down with the Au products.

Norman

In what way is the Aus product superior to the PNW product?..just curious as I only have PNW.

The FTX regional packs have probably promoted VFR flying therefore thats probably why the smaller GA fields get bigger sales (or a perhaps more correctly a bigger sales ratio for the hours put in develping the product) than the bigger airfeilds ...you are going to miss all the lovely scenery if you take off from Sydney and fly @ 30,000 ft to say Brisbane in your PMDG 737.

[Russ White]

Regarding YSSY...........as John said YBBN pretty much killed me (and Marty) in the run up to release.

The thought of doing a YSSY size airport is enough to make me run for the hills 

I'm going to stick with smaller airports for a while  that is, when my personal life actually allows me to develop for Orbx again..........

Russ.

[Bluemarlin]

Hi Russ

I totally understand your reluctance to get involved in such a big project, obviously you would need people willing and with the necesary skills to dedicate themselves to this sort of a project.  Have you ever had a look at somewhere like Kalgoorlie or for that matter Learmonth in the West - 

A lot smaller and still pretty interesting.

Cheers

Bluey

[davidgate]

I think the problem here is a matter of perception.

ORBX have potrayed the persona of "for the people, by the people" whilst living in real commercial world.

I can see both points of view - perhaps ORBX promotions have fueled expectations beyond what is possible.

By the way, excelent product - will continue to support.

Dave G

[Guest J van E]

Although I have PNW and enjoy flying it, I have to say that it does not reach anywhere near the original standard that was laid down with the Au products.

Er... of course everyone has his or hers own preferences and some like this and some like that but imho PNW really raised the bar compared to AU... I own AU Blue and AU Gold but PNW really was a step forward... if not a giant leap. For instance the trees alone (the variaton, the color, the texture, the overall look) are above anything I've seen down under. Just to name ONE thing...!!! (I mean, what about all the airports being upgraded, the photoreal parts in the mountains, the seasonal differences, etc. etc.) Not a flight (seriously!) goes by that I don't think 'Wow, those trees look great' and I didn't have that with AU.

Again, that's my personal view and of course you are entitled to yours, but your remark "that it does not reach anywhere near the original standard" really, really, really made me go SAY WHAT...?!?!? (PNW made me forget about AU completely, to tell you the truth.)

It wouldn't surprise me if the people who stick to FTX Australia are mostly those who live there. I think PNW attracts more simpilots, even if they don't live there: IF someone who doesn't live in AU or PNW would be FORCED to choose (which luckily isn't necessary), I think 90% would go for PNW... If not more. Hence Orbx's understandable greater attention to that part of the world... (Of course I can't check that 90% but it's my feeling this is so. I would have said 100% if you hadn't mentioned you and JohnY enjoy AU still that much! )

Those who prefer AU are very fortunate and lucky that Orbx's roots are over there! If Orbx had been started by someone who lives in Europe or the US I don't think AU would have looked as great in FSX as it does now... When you look at it commercially down under simply isn't the place you'd choose to develop scenery for. That's just the hard truth, I think. So I'd say: be grateful for what you've got now: I will probably have to wait a few decades before my country is treated by Orbx. (And btw it's not that Orbx has abandoned working on AU projects altogether, is it?)

[Guest bliksimpie]

You guys sound like a bunch of selfish, spoiled brats crying. I bet 70% of ORBX original sales came from Simmers outside of Australia. I’m sure JV could have started out with any Terrain Region in the World and have been just as Successful with his Talents ! I don’t live in Australia or in the PNW aria but I’ve bought most of his scenery projects ! Why ? Because I enjoy ORBX CANDY ! My city and state are no where in his future roadmap but you don’t see me having a fit nor anybody else that lives outside of these arias. If you’re a real Pilot and Simmer you would enjoy flying anywhere in the world ! Especially ORBX style ! Lighten up guys, I’m sure JV not done with his home Country !  But give the Team a break, they need to make a living and make the business Grow !

Really dont see why people complain about your post. I personally dont think there is anything to rant about your post. Absolutely the truth. I enjoyed every moment of Aus and I live on the other side of the pond. You just confirmed what JV said that most sales came form outside Aus. With ORBX qaulity you will fly whereever they develop as there are no-one else that can duplicate what ORBX do. So for me it is ORBX and I will go where they go, until someone else can deliver same qaulity form the area I want to be developed, however it is reality that that is not going to happen soon in the next 10 years.

So ORBX you guys rock and business is business and it is obvious that JV run ORBX on some sound business principles.

Well said.

[Patrick Scharnowski]

Although I have PNW and enjoy flying it, I have to say that it does not reach anywhere near the original standard that was laid down with the Au products.

Could you be more specific? In what respect doesn't NA Blue live up to the quality standards that were set by the Australia regions?

[JusJ]

Regarding YSSY...........as John said YBBN pretty much killed me (and Marty) in the run up to release.

The thought of doing a YSSY size airport is enough to make me run for the hills 

I'm going to stick with smaller airports for a while  that is, when my personal life actually allows me to develop for Orbx again..........

Russ.

Russ,

I hear what you're saying, but I have to confess that I think the airport deserves someone as good as you to make it. 

After I tamed YBBN (primarily by removing ground polys), I am in awe of what you did with it.  I hope that one day, when your batteries are recharged, you might reconsider doing YSSY! 

[John Lovell]

Quality, not quantity...

Certainly with YBBN, must have been a mammoth project and the share size of this airport alone.... to cover every area of this airport with all that quality and attention to detail is just amazing if you ask me..... A labour of love this must be for Russ and rightly so you should be very proud.

But I’m not gonna complain, we are a nation of complainers.

I’m more than happy to go with the flow and whatever comes out of Orbx, I’m sure it’s gonna be amazing... Just look at the recent additions and forthcoming WA79!

By the standards of YBBN.... I can’t wait for Russ's smaller projects.... Smaller in area, but bigger in detail and packed with quality without doubt!

[Jay Kae]

Also maybe think of it like this guys, other companies string you along for years saying it's coming, it's coming and then it never happens, at least we told you the bare bone of it, truthfully without holding back

[Russ White]

I can’t wait for Russ's smaller projects.... Smaller in area, but bigger in detail and packed with quality without doubt!

Thats the plan, my next project is Ketchikan International in Alaska, within the upcoming Pacific Fjords region. It's a while away yet though....i havent even started it yet!

As for the Australian airport development debate here, i think Australia has been been very well catered for. A shift of focus is only to be expected as new FTX regions become available to make airports for.

Russ.

[Nyxx]

I love your straight talking no BS JV.

When I formed my owen business and became a "Directer" (hate titles) it clearly stated in the document that every "director" has to sign.

"Its your job to make the business  as profitable as can be for the shareholders etc"

So if 70% of your income comes from PNW(as thats the only other region you do.)

Then so be it.

70% is a massive sign of the income doing the USA can bring you, GL to  you JV and your team, truly hope you becomes very profitable very soon, well not to much profit or the tax man whats a cut for doing FA its called corporation tax in the UK.. /spit (sorry hate the tax man)

I would not mind giving him 25% of my profits if when I make a lose he gave me 25% of the loss back lol

[Holy Cheese]

I'm having a hard time digesting the contents of the two pages of posts in this thread.

With all the wonderful payware and freeware airports already done by ORBX for Aus and PNW, more than 300 airfields done by the guys at OZx for Aus as well as their new offerings for PNW - and people are complaining that this airport or that airport isn't being released within the foreseeable future??? Seems to me to be a case of is the glass half full or half empty. My glass is full to overflowing with the products already released. Why not go and fly and enjoy what is already there instead of spending hours making futile posts in this thread and the MS Flight thread about things that don't already exist yet?

ORBX and OZx have together given us enough already to keep us busy flying for years. Have some faith in the developers - they will continue to deliver great products to us in their own good time, as they have done up to now.

I have seen what the guys here can develop and provide us with, be it freeware or payware, and it is of the highest quality and brings me endless hours of entertainment. I trust the developers and KNOW that they will continue to bring more and more high quality products to our screens.

So enough moaning about what hasn't been done yet, and endless questions about release dates of this or that - get in your sim and fly to the places that ORBX and OZx have already enhanced in all their glory!

Jack

[Kyle Cormier]

as a simmer in the US, i am very very glad to hear about the expansion into the US/ Canada area and i hope sales explode so more of the US can get done.  I feel for the people who think that the AU area is taking a back seat so to speak.  but i understand 2 big issues that JV mentioned in earlier posts, and those are that the US is a bigger market place and that Orbx is still not profitable.  everyone who visits this forum knows the quality of work that the men and women of Orbx produce but we all have to agree that they want to work for a company that is going to thrive and grow and give them the security to continue the work they do and if that means that they are reducing their "home base area" and moving more toward the USA, i can relate to that. 

I was not always an Orbx customer but i became one after trying the Tasmania demo, right before the PNW area was released.  Someone on this forum said you will never see FSX the same way again after using FTX and they were right, it is better then i thought it would be.  they also said i would not want to fly out of the AU region because everything else in FSX looked a step down and that there were 100's of wonderful places to visit in AU.  I feel the same ay about the US and i cant wait until it is 100% covered.  I invite the AU simmers to experience the 100's of new and wonderful places to fly in the US and Canada ( I am sure lots of you already have )

If FTX does not go where the market is then soon there will be no FTX and i for one do not want to see that happen.

Kyle

[Guest strider]

First of all I don’t know anybody here personally so it nothing personal. I wasn’t trying to offend or belittle anybody. I my choice of words might have been a little rough around the edges. But I call it how I see it, or should I say how I read it  ! So yes you guys are brats, spoiled and lamenting.  You get to fly in your own backyard, ORBX style ! How Cool is that ?? So that makes us all spoiled brats too ! But you guys act like the whole world revolves around you. Sorry but that’s the attitude I see in some these posts. “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently oppose, and third, it is accepted as self-evident† Arthur Schonenhauer…

[John Lovell]

What ever will be, will be... Chill out

[John York]

I seem to have started something here Jay & John that's got a bit out of hand.  Sorry about that.

Time to call it a day I think and pull the plug before someone really loses it.

John

[Vee One]

YPPH - not happening; Jarrad's next project is Anacortes in PNW

Extremely super disappointed    I was hoping it was at least somewhere in our future with orbx, it's great having YPJT but still...  Given that I fly 99% of my time in Australia even though I have PNW as well, I'm pretty bummed that Oz is getting less attention from you, regardless of what the US market may be like.

John, I actually think it's a bit of a kick in the teeth to the Aussies here that we're not going to see much development in the future.  While I'm sure most everyone in here (myself included) will continue to support orbx because of the excellent products and service, I think it's a mistake to drop major Australian airports off the radar when it was really the focus on the aussie product that got orbx up.  Sorry if that comes across as harsh, as I have tremendous respect for the whole orbx team, you've done a great job to date, but this will definitely influence my spending choices in the future - this at a time when the MS Flight discussions are urging people not to stop supporting the devs in hope of a new product.  You've actually just managed to negate that argument for me, as I don't really intend to be buying a lot of the PNW and further US products - they just don't really interest me.  NZ is another matter, but still a long way off.

That's my two cents, apologies for the rant, and I hope there is still at least some glimmer of hope for seeing the likes of ORBX YPPH, YSSY, YPAD sometime in the future.

Cheers,

Derek

think youve echoed my sentiments  warpspider74

I also do all my simming in and around OZ and NZ , so obviously sceneries from here are of great interest to me.

while I completely understand what John says from a business perspective and at the end a good bottom line keeps them afloat ,  it would be dissapointing to have attention to OZ lessened.

I agree too.  I recently reinstalled FSX and removed my non-ORBX scenery, because I came to the conclusion that FTX Australia looks so good, I couldn't fly anywhere else.  I was looking forward to one day having all the major Australian airports ORBX'd.

Is it worth asking the OZx guys to fill the gap now, or do they do GA airports only?

I agree fully with them. We international customers NEED Sydney!

[Vee One]

Wanted to edit but couldn't... Maybe I can wait for YSSY...

[John Venema]

OK as promised I have updated the Orbx product roadmap page - http://fullterrain.com/product_roadmap.html

This better reflects the order in which the products are going to be released, and takes some projects off the radar based on their current status.

And scroll down to see a little surprise ... 

[marka]

Good luck with your expansion into the U.S and thank you for all the work done so far with Australia. Once a few more big Australian airports are released I think we will be at a level that we would have never been without ORBX. I really don't have the time to enjoy all the work put into it.

My flying is purely based in Australia, but I may start flying in the U.S once there is significant coverage, but Australia will always be my first preference. It would be great the see the entire U.S covered as Australia is.

It is a shame though that YSSY is off the road map for some time, it has never had a good representation in any FS version, hopefully someone does it, but it's hard to match ORBX quality.

Thanks

Mark

[Naki]

Awesome ..an Airtourer ..that's an aircraft I would certainly consider buying.

Presumably it's this one that was previewed a while back on OZx:

http://aussiex.org/forum/index.php?/topic/3085-continued-evolution-of-a-victa-airtourer/

Can't be too far away from completion - any dates on release?

PS: BTW the link from the Airtourer goes to the Jabiru

[Rimshot]

And scroll down to see a little surprise ... 

Little... Literally that is right? Great to see Orbx do another small aircraft for the Microsoft Flight (Simulator) series Didn't even know the Airtourer existed, but I'd like to have it in my sim

[Jackson.S]

I completely understand ORBX's viewpoint and support that, however I am crushed that there's no YMMB coming out!

And wow! The Victa Air Tourer! Thanks for that John you certainly have done a great job with your development and choice of aircraft! 

[Bluemarlin]

Regardless of the debate guys, Russ' last post made it abundently clear - get used to very little focus on AUS when these next set of releases come out especially anything to do with WA or SA.

As Russ said its the US and Alaska etc that he will be working on next and it is obviously going to get the lions share of any Orbx work done. 

I suppose that the next round of AUS releases will see me out, but I thank you guys for the work you all did, its just a damn shame you guys won't see it through as the AU series put you on the map even if by Johns advice your sales mostly came for OS.

Cheers

Bluey

Said my bit.

[capt sl]

I think the bottom line in everyones views is the shear admiration and enjoyment of ORBX products with the incredibly high quality

and this sometimes bubbles over into a wishlist of all sorts . dont think there is any complaining , criticism or moaning etc of any sort. how can there be for something everyone enjoys so much

anyway looking forward excitedly towards whatever is coming 

[Rob Abernathy]

I live in the PNW and was delighted to discover FTX scenery and bought NA Blue straight away, then the smaller, regional airports in WA, then Stark's.............THEN.......the whole package of AUS SP3 because of what I saw in PNW!  Thanks ORBX

[alan2]

As John has said , more or less, ... Orbx will last you years down the track .      .. And so production will continue for years , I hope .  I think we will see more of Aus developed in time , one way or another .

[John Venema]

As John has said , more or less, ... Orbx will last you years down the track .      .. And so production will continue for years , I hope .  I think we will see more of Aus developed in time , one way or another .

Correct

[ricky76]

OK as promised I have updated the Orbx product roadmap page - http://fullterrain.com/product_roadmap.html

This better reflects the order in which the products are going to be released, and takes some projects off the radar based on their current status.

And scroll down to see a little surprise ... 

Ahhh you sneeky buggers!!! Not all that familiar with the type, But it's bound to be a treat!!! Long live ORBX!

[Guest J van E]

Nice! Another plane! Great! I am glad Orbx is going to release planes too: I like some new quality planes. My confidence in Orbx is rather great: I just know they will deliver the goods and fix things when needed. And I am known for liking that...

[Patrick Scharnowski]

Once a few more big Australian airports are released I think we will be at a level that we would have never been without ORBX.

The way I see it that level was achieved already with the release of the first of the FTX Australia regions. With the complete coverage of Australia at the latest.

[normandean]

I note that several posts have asked why I said that I considered that the AU series was superior to the PNW. Well. let me first say that I am not knocking PNW, it is excellent scenery, and as I said in my post, I really enjoy flying there. However, There are subtle differences between the style of the AU products and PNW that in my opinion, and this is purely personal, make the former the better product.

I suppose that it may also be a factor that we had the AU series first, and there are other sceneries for the US whereas for Australia - zilch. In the AU series there has been tremendous attention to detail so much so that all the time you have to keep reminding yourself that this is photo-real scenery not photographic. The "default" au airfields are well crafted and the overall effect totally submersive. I have never been to Oz, and probably never will, but I have shown the scenery to both tourists who have and people I know that come from there and all have been amazed at the detail shown in the scenery.

With PNW, on the other hand, there are areas of absolute brilliance, which will rival any area in the AU series, but there are other areas where you can sometimes feel that there is little change from the MSFS default. Of course the scenery in this area is totally different to the Australian scenery, but even so there are quite significant areas where, for me, it just doesn't gel. The same thing applies to the airfields that come as part of the package. They do not seem to have been as diligently made as those in the AU product. There isn't the added airfield clutter, vehicles and aircraft, and in many cases they go little beyond a strip and a couple of buildings. Now I haven't been to the PNW area either, except to pass through KSEA and CYYJ, so it may be that the depiction of these fields is exactly right, but if you compare the areas, such as Darrington before and after the addon then you will see what I mean.

Of course there are the area addons, such as Twin Oaks, Darrington etc, and these compare well with, say, Coff's Harbour or Hervey Bay, and I expect that future additions will take the scenery even better. I also realise, as someone else has already said, that Oz coverage is by and large completed; there is just the icing on the top to go.

So, IMHO, the original ORBX offering was truly magnificent, and I suppose that as it was a native product and they had to establish a name for themselves the designers really put their hearts and souls into it.  Probably that's why they have yet to start making a decent profit. But with PNW, although the standard is still very high for me it doesn't quite have that glitter.

Norman

[Patrick Scharnowski]

The "default" au airfields are well crafted and the overall effect totally submersive.

[...]

the airfields that come as part of the package [...] do not seem to have been as diligently made as those in the AU product. There isn't the added airfield clutter, vehicles and aircraft, and in many cases they go little beyond a strip and a couple of buildings.

Ah... there is a misconception at work here that explains the lower opinion that you have of the PNW area: you are believing that the excellent OZx freeware airport packages are part of the FTX Australia scenery. They are not. The OZx team is a different entity than orbx that creates wonderful freeware airports that are tailored for but not part of the orbx FTX products. Apart from the few freeware airports that you can download from the FTX page and the payware airports all the other airports in Australia were left untouched and completely default by orbx.

This is one of the areas where the PNW scenery actually was improved. Instead of just leaving the airports in their default state, and only relying on the OZx guys to fill them with life, Neil Hill single-handedly modified every single one of the more than 400 airports to make them look better than default. These modifications are not as good as the OZx fields will be (the first package for freeware airfields for NA Blue was released a short time ago) but they are still a big step up from leaving them default as it was the case with FTX Australia. I hope you see matters more clearly now.