GaryRR Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 It would seem that Microsoft/Asobo has made a quantum leap in terms of scenery depiction. Even though the new platform is still beta like, and not realistic procedurally, many simmers are totally captivated by being able to spot their own houses. I believe it is possible for other 64 bit sim publishers to match MSFS scenic detail though and in a similar manner to what Asobo/MS does. How difficult would it be to create scenery from 3d satellite data for other 64 bit platforms. There is a lot of free data out there courtesy of NASA, LandSat, and other sources that could be used. I understand that MSFS creates scenery based on bing data and streams it as you fly. I know MS has the infrastructure to stream but my idea is to do the same sort of scenery in snapshots and break it up into regions. Xplane or P3d could be set to load it only as far as the horizon it would be very much like MSFS. The scenery could be broken up in regions and updated either annually or biannually. In fact it could be distributed subscription style. There are those of us who won't use MSFS fir various reasons but our older platforms will end up atrophied without developer support. A scenery system as I described is much needed to keep P3d and Xplane relevant. I believe it could be a great nitch for Orbx. Any developer comments? Thank You. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Hello, welcome to the forums. I believe that you are basically asking for True Earth regions. As I understand it, not much of the "data" is free of charge, especially if it is to be distributed in return for payment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryRR Posted June 10, 2021 Author Share Posted June 10, 2021 Even if from US Goverment networks. True Earth is the flat kind isn't it? The MSFS vids I've seen present 3d buildings, trees, etc. Remember. MS/Asobo doesn't own the satallites they use. Landsat and others. Public domain they stream. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Hello, Orbx True Earth products are photo scenery with added scenery objects and autogen. They are available for P3D and X Plane 11. Here is a random image from True Earth Netherlands in the latest version of P3D v5, with and without EA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternT3 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 As Nick says TE is P3D/X-Planes equivalent of Bing for MSFS (although IMO TE Still doesn't manage to equal default MSFS) but the issue is I personally can't see it being financially sound for Orbx to expand massively into TE much more, I get some people want to stick with other sims but I feel more people will more to MSFS when we see the more complex aircraft like PMDG later this month and year, thus shrinking the already shrinking P3D/X-Plane market. I feel the only real way for P3D/XPL to 'keep up' with MSFS is to implement the sat data is the base sim like MSFS does but in P3Ds case I can't see it happening as it's a commercial sim and MS still controls the rights, so again it probably won't happen. Btw MSFS is a sim that's already "procedurally realistic" not sure how you determined it's not 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfko Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 MSFS is not only about scenery. Lighting, weather engine (not even well known FSX/P3d/XP weather add ons come close to MSFS weather and its depiction), clouds, vegetation, buildings, nav data (no use for me gor Navigraph any more) are far superior in MSFS than in all the other sims. And with the advent of more and more highly detailed add on aircraft in MSFS (wich offers BTW quite a few stunningly realistic default aircraft) it will be difficult for the other sims to keep up. By saying that, it is not my intension to start a this sim vs that sim discussion. Every sim has its advantages for specific users. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryRR Posted June 10, 2021 Author Share Posted June 10, 2021 One thing MSFS will never have. It will not recieve professional, academic, or regulatory training endorsement as long as it is marketed as entertainment. LM and Laminar have both carved out that corner. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryRR Posted June 10, 2021 Author Share Posted June 10, 2021 2 hours ago, EasternT3 said: As Nick says TE is P3D/X-Planes equivalent of Bing for MSFS (although IMO TE Still doesn't manage to equal default MSFS) but the issue is I personally can't see it being financially sound for Orbx to expand massively into TE much more, I get some people want to stick with other sims but I feel more people will more to MSFS when we see the more complex aircraft like PMDG later this month and year, thus shrinking the already shrinking P3D/X-Plane market. I feel the only real way for P3D/XPL to 'keep up' with MSFS is to implement the sat data is the base sim like MSFS does but in P3Ds case I can't see it happening as it's a commercial sim and MS still controls the rights, so again it probably won't happen. Btw MSFS is a sim that's already "procedurally realistic" not sure how you determined it's not The flight modeling still needs work which likely will be improved. MS owns what rights? They don't own the satellites or data. LM owns the coding for P3d. They can do with it what they will. Is it possible to own rights to a certain sort of coding, say coding to transform satellite 3d data and imagery into flight simulator scenery? Landsat data and imagery are totally public domain. NASA/US Gov. owns that infrastructure. Granted, live streaming the data would take a lot of bandwidth and servers which MS does have but neither LM nor Laminar posses. LM has no need of so much, it is a defense contractor basically and their computational systems support that. Laminar is a software publisher only. But in place of live stream that Sat data could be turned into a packaged scenery by global region and shipped with the sim and updated every 6 months or a year. From what I understand only the sat data is live streamed by MS and the sim generates it as you fly. I don't think anyone simming over Indianapolis on May 31st for example saw any cars on the speedway. What they do should be able to be canned and ship eith the sim. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Hello, photo scenery for FS 2004, FSX, P3D and X Plane11 is not a new concept and various developers have been producing it for years, both payware and freeware. Imagery might be free where you are, but there is more to the world than the USA and in some areas, the imagery is extremely expensive. If you would like to see an example, try France VFR. You can see it in a language of your choice by clicking on Langue at the top right and selecting one from the drop down list. On the freeware side, as an example there is Blue Sky scenery which comes without autogen but freeware developers have produced autogen addons and indeed software for users to create their own photo scenery and autogen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Comparisons with MSFS add nothing to this discussion and are not required. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternT3 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, GaryRR said: One thing MSFS will never have. It will not recieve professional, academic, or regulatory training endorsement as long as it is marketed as entertainment. LM and Laminar have both carved out that corner. Are you physic? Yes currently MSFS is a entertainment sim for the average user, where as P3D was never and will never be this, however P3D is meant for commercial uses only and we should be lucky LM begrudgingly let the average Joe use it (and wrongly, the amount the people that bought the academic licence instead of professional) 1 hour ago, GaryRR said: The flight modeling still needs work which likely will be improved. It's currently being worked on, that being said there's not one sim that has a perfect flight model that is in the average persons budget, also slight flight model imperfections doesn't make the sim "procedurally unrealistic" 1 hour ago, GaryRR said: MS owns what rights? I can't find the article but another knowledgeable person can chip in regarding the nature of the ESP between MS and LM, regardless of who owns what when it comes to P3D, it's unlikely LM will go down the path of MSFS because a) I believe MS can have a say it what LM can do or not do to P3D, and b) the sim is for commercial use only really. So for commercial users, is live-streamed data for the world what they actually need? Also on a side note, there's people believing that yesterdays P3D V5.2 release could be the final version of P3D. (and these are hardcore P3D'ers) 1 hour ago, GaryRR said: But in place of live stream that Sat data could be turned into a packaged scenery by global region and shipped with the sim and updated every 6 months or a year. Going back to your OP, and as Nick says, photo/sat data is possible but highly unlikely in P3D to the level of MSFS. Yes some data is free but the quality of it isn't great, therefore payware is realistically the only way, and I for one can't see that. I used P3D for almost a decade between FSX and MSFS so I like the sim, but if you look at the state of the current sim world, it's unlikely P3D will 'catch up' with MSFS from either LM or 3rd Party input, the reason for the second is because of the dying market for 3rd party addons in P3D, (which is why you see 85% of new releases are MSFS, 10% XPL, 5% P3D). I'm not trying to make P3D (or obsolete) because they're not, people still use FSX and FS9 to this day, but I think (and I visit a lot of devs website in the flight sim world and see what they are saying) people should temper their expectations when it comes to P3D, I just can't see and major developments to have P3D catch up, and whether people like it or not, MSFS is looking like the way forward for an entertainment sim Edited June 10, 2021 by EasternT3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternT3 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 51 minutes ago, Nick Cooper said: Comparisons with MSFS add nothing to this discussion and are not required. Sorry! I'll refrain from making further comment, I don't like MSFS vs P3D vs XPL debates, just wanted to explain why I can't see P3D "catching up" 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfko Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Photoreal sceneries like TE need an enormous amount of data storage space, whareas the MSFS streaming concept needs almost nil storage space. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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