AdAstra Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 I'm having a problem where the localizer beam for OEV is not on the correct course of 255deg mag, when i'm coupled to the OEV localizer 253deg mag is tracked. Is this normal? Am i able to fix it? The problem is pronounced at 18nm dme OEV where you're not overflying Kellerjoch, but to the right of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petfy Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Cant duplicate it using FSX with calm weather. Could weather settings (wind) be a factor? Also incorrect previous (approach) waypoint been specified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Hello, way over my head, but if it's of any use, here is what ADE is reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrad Marshall Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 5 hours ago, AdAstra said: I'm having a problem where the localizer beam for OEV is not on the correct course of 255deg mag, when i'm coupled to the OEV localizer 253deg mag is tracked. Is this normal? Am i able to fix it? The problem is pronounced at 18nm dme OEV where you're not overflying Kellerjoch, but to the right of it. Hi there, What you are seeing should be correct; Innsbruck has a few peculiarities in this arena, due to the terrain limitations, a good discussion along the same lines can be found here: Cheers, Jarrad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdAstra Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 G'day Jarrad. I did run a search and I did read that thread, thank you. The problem needs looking in to. LOWI RWY26 QDM is 258deg mag. The localizer is placed at coordinates 47 15 30.84N 011 20 26.21E and has a 3.5deg mag offset to the RWY26 QDM (258deg mag according to LOWI Jepp 10-9). By my reckoning, that makes it 258 - 3.5 = 254.5. Rounded up to 255. The OEV localizer is wrong. Perhaps OEJ needs to be looked in to aswell. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX REFERENCE XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Reference: AIP Austria, LOWI AD 2-1. Revision 02FEB2018 i.e. recent. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX REFERENCE XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX This is my result when flying LOWI LOC DME EAST procedure (FMS LOC 26) in LNAV and VOR/LOC (in Boeing 737) 6 hours ago, petfy said: Cant duplicate it using FSX with calm weather. Could weather settings (wind) be a factor? Also incorrect previous (approach) waypoint been specified? Maybe? and no. In your external photo, you can see that, like me, you are descending north from north of overhead Kellerjoch peak (7690'). If on the OEV offset localizer, you should be descending from practically directly overhead Kellerjoch, but you aren't. I'm 0.3nm past the FAF but it doesn't matter. if the OEV localizer is tracked, the wrong lateral path is followed. If LNAV is tracked, the correct lateral path is followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdAstra Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 This topic is not answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Hello, is this your topic too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdAstra Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 Yes mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrad Marshall Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 G'day again, I've just been reading through your thread over at avsim - terrific stuff. The next test for you to try, could you run the same approach with our LOWI disabled? Do you get the exact same result or is the offset corrected according to your calcs? Note that for the purpose of this test, unchecking the FTX_AA_LOWI scenery folder in your P3D library will sufficiently disable the scenery. Cheers, Jarrad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petfy Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YseKQrOYquo Approach is the designated OEV 255 to 26. You can see the co pilot reach over and disconnect the auto throttle and auto pilot. The pilot then steers left to align with the runway. (note what pilot has attached to yoke - see my post above). https://charts.vacc-austria.org/LOWI/LOWI_Approach_Instrument Approach Chart - ICAO (LOC R RWY 26)_09112017.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdAstra Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 Not sure what any of what you’ve written has to do with a misaligned OEV localizer? Firstly, airplane automatics has little to do with it as there are multiple ways to skin a cat here - I.e. multiple methods of flying the LOC DME EAST approach. In the 737, it could be LNAV, VOR/LOC, HDG SEL, VNAV, GS, V/S or of course, manual control of the lateral and vertical profile meaning, autopilot autothrottle disconnected. Which mode is used is left to operator approval, approved procedures and then finally pilot discretion according to prevailing conditions. The pilot in your video is adjusting his path because as I noted above and supplied a reference to it, the OEV localizer is offset 3.5deg mag from RWY26 QDM. The video is old, hence OEV QDM 254 set in MCP Course Display. That he’s disconnected from autopilot and autothrottle is totally irrelevant to what is being considered here. Automation in RPT operations has its place and should be used or not used free of ego’s and attitude’s. Where safe and practical, it should be used. Where manual flight is safe and practical, it can be used. I can see you discourage use of the airplane automatics which is unagreeable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Hello AdAstra, instead of debating the methods, would you mind trying the suggestion that Jarrad made in post 9. The alleged problem here is to do with the LOWI Innsbruck Airport product. These are Orbx support forums for support with Orbx products. If you would instead prefer to discuss flying protocol, please return to your topic at the Avsim forum. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdAstra Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 21 minutes ago, Nick Cooper said: Hello AdAstra, instead of debating the methods, would you mind trying the suggestion that Jarrad made in post 9. The alleged problem here is to do with the LOWI Innsbruck Airport product. These are Orbx support forums for support with Orbx products. If you would instead prefer to discuss flying protocol, please return to your topic at the Avsim forum. Thank you. Agree. Will do Nick. I’ll be back when able with results. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdAstra Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 So i've verified that the ORBX generated OEV localizer is erroneous. By disabling ORBX scenery as suggested, and flying default scenery localizer, the FMS lateral path and OEV localizer were aligned. 3 pictures below: 1, the difference between ORBX and default OEV localizer, 2, the difference between ORBX localizer and FMS LNAV path 3, the difference between default localizer and FMS LNAV path NOTE: magvar, navaids and ILS/RWY data is updated in my sim and has no impact on the accuracy of flying procedures as proved in image 3. http://www.aero.sors.fr/ Image 1 Image 2 Image 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdAstra Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 A polite bump to this topic. Will orbx continue to run with incorrect localizer or are you contemplating a fix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrad Marshall Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 G'day again, we're just running this past our "brains trust" for verification. Once that's done we'll update it as a small service pack. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaab Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Hi Jarrad, Any chance you also take a look to the approaches defined in the airport bgl... (see this old thread) Would be great. Thanks - Gérard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdAstra Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 Just would like to apologise to petfly. Just re read my dribble and think it almost meets the definition of diatribe. Apologise once again. Jarrad, thanks for the update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjratchf Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Any updates to this issue?... I was doing some beta testing for our upcoming MD88 (maddog) and have this same issue. Following the LNAV path, I'm taken decidedly LEFT of the LOC raw data course, forcing me to use HDG SEL to fly over an grab the LOC. It seems ORBX's LOWI 26 LOC doesn't quite match up with the charts/real world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjratchf Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 I can confirm that after the install of one of these products: GES or Orbx LOWI, something happens to the localizer course. I did my usual "fresh install" of windows and P3D 4.4 and tried the approach before I added any scenery to the program: Default everything: LOC course matched up with the FMS provided (GPS based) line With GES/LOWI: LOC course is slightly right of the FMS provided GPS line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjratchf Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 I was able to fix it... Looks like the Westsim_Innsbruck_APX.bgl had its OEV with an incorrect course (True heading of 256). Well, it might have been correct some years ago I guess. I downloaded Airport Inspector and Editor from http://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids.html - searched using the "folder method" in C:\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4\ORBX\FTX_EU\FTX_AA_LOWI\Scenery and opened the editor for the OEV localizer and clicked on "load from AIRAC" which corrected the values to the current ones (True heading of 258). Allowed it to recompile and saved a backup... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdAstra Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 Excellent thanks mate. I can’t see what was so difficult about that for orbx. i appreciate your time and effort in reporting back here to this forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costanzo_roberto Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 On 7/2/2018 at 4:26 PM, AdAstra said: G'day Jarrad. I did run a search and I did read that thread, thank you. The problem needs looking in to. LOWI RWY26 QDM is 258deg mag. The localizer is placed at coordinates 47 15 30.84N 011 20 26.21E and has a 3.5deg mag offset to the RWY26 QDM (258deg mag according to LOWI Jepp 10-9). By my reckoning, that makes it 258 - 3.5 = 254.5. Rounded up to 255. The OEV localizer is wrong. Perhaps OEJ needs to be looked in to aswell. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX REFERENCE XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Reference: AIP Austria, LOWI AD 2-1. Revision 02FEB2018 i.e. recent. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX REFERENCE XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX This is my result when flying LOWI LOC DME EAST procedure (FMS LOC 26) in LNAV and VOR/LOC (in Boeing 737) Maybe? and no. In your external photo, you can see that, like me, you are descending north from north of overhead Kellerjoch peak (7690'). If on the OEV offset localizer, you should be descending from practically directly overhead Kellerjoch, but you aren't. I'm 0.3nm past the FAF but it doesn't matter. if the OEV localizer is tracked, the wrong lateral path is followed. If LNAV is tracked, the correct lateral path is followed. Hello, How can I change in the PFD of the Pmdg737 from ILS to LOC / VNAV ? Tanks for Help me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdAstra Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 You engage VOR/LOC with the VOR/LOC button on the mode control panel instead of the APP button. Make sure VNAV mode is engaged prior to intercepting the localiser and that you have set a lower altitude in the mode control panel (mcp) altitude window prior to descending because in LNAV you won’t fly lower than the altitude set in the mcp, I usually use the 4% MDA+100ft (conservative risk mitigation), so I put 3800 in the altitude window of the mode control panel. Once LNAV levels you off, I press altitude HOLD on the mcp and use HDG SEL to manoeuvre to the downwind. I disconnect all automatics including autothrottle before the base turn and set missed approach altitude in the mcp. easy (I’m joking haha) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maneville Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 Hello I have just bought the LOWI airport ! Great About the runway 26 - my question is simple - Is there a way to fix the wrong LOC? or ... do I have to manage that myself ? /// Or has someone done the modification in the appropriate airport file to fix the problem? Thank you for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdAstra Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 I don’t think orbx have fixed their scenery, so, if you want it correct, you will have to adjust the localiser manually. my apologies, but I don’t know how to do it. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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