resolved Disappearing PAPI - KTEX and KSEZ

[tttocs]

I'm seeing a strange problem with PAPI lights at a couple of airports.  At both KTEX (Rwy 9) and KSEZ (Rwy 21) when farther out on approach, I can see the PAPI lights.  However, as I get closer, I'll see a brief black square appear at the approach end of the runway, and when it resolves back to the proper scenery, the PAPI lights have disappeared completely.  Note that at the opposite ends of the runway at both airports, the lights work as expected.

 

Any thoughts?

[tttocs]

Nothing?  Anybody?

 

If nothing else, it would help to know if I'm alone in seeing (or not seeing in this case) the issue.

[Doug Sawatzky]

What sim are you using?

[tttocs]

Sorry - yeah should've included that.  This is FSX.

[Jarrad Marshall]

G'day Scott,

 

Here are a couple of screenshots from these two PAPI for comparison.. if yours don't match these, could you please post up a couple of screenshots? 

 

 

Cheers,

Jarrad

[tttocs]

HI Jarrad,

 

Thanks for looking at this for me.  Unfortunately, no that is not what it looks like at my end of things.  The light boxes are there, but with no lights once I get anywhere near the runways.  Even your initial shot is too close for the lights to be visible.

 

I'll try to get a couple of screen grabs and post them later this evening.

 

[Jarrad Marshall]

G'day Scott, yes if you could please post some screenshots that would be great. In addition to this, some more questions;

 

1. Do you run FSX in DX10 mode? If so, could you test your PAPI with DX10 mode disabled and see if that makes a difference? 

2. KSEZ & KTEX use default (APX) PAPIs, could you see if you have any problems at a default airport? Nearby Flagstaff would be a nearby example. 

3. When you post up screenshots, could you also please post a screenshot of the "good" PAPI at the other runway ends? 

 

Cheers,

Jarrad

[tttocs]

Good morning Jarrad,

 

Sorry, didn't see your request until this morning, so the final image will have to wait unit I can use my flight sim comp again this evening.  In answer to your Q's:

 

1) Yes, I run DX10 with the fixer - in fact I originally assumed this was a DX10 issue and I approached it as such.  However when I reverted back to DX9 there was no difference in the PAPI issue.

2) I appear to have no issues at default airports or for that matter at other Orbx fields that I've noted.  I even reverted back to default KSEZ and default KTEX to test and both of these work fine.

3) As noted - I'll have to get these to you later.  For now, here are three from last night coming in to KSEZ.  I've left these full size so that you can expand to see better detail.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

 

[tttocs]

Not the best angle, but I grabbed this quickly before heading out to work from the other end at KSEZ.  Lights working fine at this end.  Will grab the KTEX shots this evening if you still need to see them.

[tttocs]

And from KTEX, the first three on approach to 9 and then one from the opposite end (27) where the lights work.

 

 

 

 

[shermank]

emfbi, but, here is a youtube video of a real life approach and landing at KTEX. The video begins with the pilot downwind of the field. If you want to shorten the viewing time, you can skip ahead to his base turn about 2:20 seconds in, before he turns final.

 

 

[tttocs]

Hi Sherm,

 

There may not have been a PAPI on 27 in 2013 when this was filmed, but there is one now and as noted above that end works fine for me.  The approach shown in my shots is to the opposite end - RWY 9 - which also has a 4 light PAPI IRL.

 

Thanks!

[Jarrad Marshall]

G'day Scott, 

 

To be honest I'm not 100% sure what your cause may be, but the default PAPI splash effects at both airports are quite small in your screenshots, so I would suggest one of the following:

 

1. It is possible that you have a third-party PAPI mod effect installed that may be smaller than the default, thereby causing rendering issues. In addition to single user mods, many popular env/texture addons (including REX etc) have options to swap these out - if you have any installed, try other options or revert to default splashes. 

2. Just make sure your DX10 fixer and associated libraries are all up-to-date. 

3. Possible, though unlikely - have a play with your graphics card settings (including AA etc) to see if these make a difference. 

 

Cheers,

Jarrad

[tttocs]

Hi Jarrad,

 

Thanks for taking a look and offering some suggestions.  This is a really strange one.

 

Good catch on the size of the lights on the working end.  Now that you mention it, I agree - these are much smaller than I see at other fields, but I can't imagine how this would be due to third party effect, as they are more normally sized at other airports.  Still it's possible I did something at some point and have forgotten about it.  I'll dig a bit deeper there.  I'll also try making some anti-aliasing adjustments as well, just to be sure.  As for the DX10 stuff I do have the latest version of the Fixer.

 

BTW, just for informational purposes I have one other airport where this problem occurs, though in this case at both ends, and that's Turbulent's Big Bear City airport.  Same symptoms where the lights are visible in the distance and then disappear as I get closer.  To be sure there wasn't some strange conflict, I disabled Turbulent's library and airports while I've been testing on these two Orbx fields.

 

I just dunno.

 

Again, thanks for your suggestions.

[Doug Sawatzky]

Have you opened up your DX10 fixer to trigger a new elements scan lately?

[tttocs]

Hi Doug.

 

Yes, I have.  I originally assumed this was a DX10/Fixer issue and approached it as such, including trying some things Steve suggested.  I've rescanned multiple times, as well as dropping back to DX9 (including restoring the original effects via the Fixer) and the problem persisted.  Pretty well convinced that this is not a DX10/Fixer issue at this point.

 

But many thanks, as any and all suggestions are appreciated.

 

Scott

[Holger Sandmann]

Hi Scott,

 

are you perhaps using the "RUNWAY_LIGHTS_ {...}_SCALAR=" tweaks in the [Display] section of your fsx.cfg file? Those entries don't exist by default but some people add them, with values of 0.7 or even 0.5, to reduce the overall size of runway lights.

 

For example, see http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/121534-taxiway-lights-in-fsx/

 

Cheers, Holger

[tttocs]

Hi there Holger,

 

Good info - don't recall ever doing that, but just checked my fsx.cfg to be sure, and no sign of a RUNWAY_LIGHTS... entry at all.

 

Again, however... many thanks as ALL of these suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

Scott

[wulfbindewald]

A side note: I could duplicate the a.m. No-PAPI light at KTEX issue, if I deactivate (for test purpose only) the halo.bmp file in the FSX/Texture folder.

The halo.bmp FSX stock file is dated from 12.05.2006. Another Mod file version in use?

[tttocs]

Thanks for the date on the original file as that turned my attention in that direction.  I've checked that file before as it was something SteveFX mentioned I should look at, but I hadn't noted the date was dramatically differrent and it looked "normal" enough.   Looking again, I do note the date on mine is from 2013, so it's clearly not stock.

 

Now I need to find an original copy, and/or figure out how it got replaced.

 

May be onto something here!

 

Scott

[tttocs]

Success!  Couldn't find an archived version of the original halo.bmp file, but I grabbed one from a freeware airport package which appeared to be larger and more distinct than the version I was using and gave it a try.  And whattya know - it worked!

 

FYI, the one that I was using appeared to be from an old copy of UTX which I haven't used in some time.  Why this would only impact a couple of fields, and two of them only at one end, I do not know and at this point I'm not sure I even care.  Problem solved and for that I am most pleased.

 

A big thanks to all for your kind suggestions and patience, and especially to wulfbindewald for the halo.bmp date info.