active Inaccuracy of Winsock

[mikegust]

I started the discussion over year and a half ago about correcting inaccuracy of Winsock responses.

Here you can view the discussion

I had lots of very promising responses from developers.

I left it alone, waited for an update and nothing really happened.

I am still flying into numerous locations with Winsock showing directions that is dramatically different from reality.

I really don't care about bunnies and the horses jumping all over the place, this is an aviation simulator, let's start with that and then make cute and useless decorations.

I give you a suggestion guys.

I am not a programmer but I have a feeling that a good programmer could create a sequence of decomplying files looking for incorrectly positioned objects, correcting it and recomplying.

Maybe I'm naïve but I have a feeling, that maybe I'm the only one that has flown in real life and has this crazy need of actually looking at the Winsock.

I am the biggest fan of FTX products, many people, from my advice have purchased that awesome addition to the sim.

It is quite embarrassing when after all of that, people approached an airport and ask me, well the windsock is not working correctly?

There has to be a way, I really believe there has to be a way of fixing it.

HL

mike

[Neil Hill]

Hi Mike,

 

When placed correctly the standard ORBX windsocks work correctly, showing direction and even windspeed to some extent. Would you provide an example of a windsock that doesn't work and I'll check it out.  While this is true for FSX I understand the P3D sim doesn't support the standard ORBX windsocks (yet).

 

Thanks, Neil

[mikegust]

Neil

You were part of the discussion that I linked in my original post so you are up-to-date what am I talking about.

Varies several acknowledgments of The major problem and very large numbers of airports mentioned.

It has been year and a half since these posts and I am still coming across in airports with windsocks showing wrong direction.

Is there a plan in place to finally mitigate that situation?

TH

mike

[Adam Banks]

I'm confused (!!). Is it a LM/P3D problem, an ORBX problem - or a combination of both? I suspect ORBX are stymied by LM code and have to to tedious/lengthy work-arounds <?>.

 

I must admit, I also get a little weary of pure eye-candy (produced by both LM and ORBX) that serves no real purpose - yet wind socks aren't sorted.

 

Who needs the stupid avatar mode, for instance. It's a flight SIM - not a 1st person shooter!! How many hundreds of hours went into programming *that* frivolity when weather effects are left incomplete? I'd rather have wind socks any day - over whales/dolphins/Loch Ness monsters that may only very occasionally appear.

 

I've only done a small amount of recreational GA [powered] flying, but used to do a fair bit more gliding - where awareness of wind speed and direction is even more critical.

 

I suppose the same criticism could be applied to fancy looking aircraft - with superb VCs - but awful flight models. This is ORBX - so we're only talking about scenery here!

 

Adam.

[Jethro VH-JET]

Hey Adam,

Just now, Adam_NZ said:

Who needs the stupid avatar mode, for instance. It's a flight SIM - not a 1st person shooter!!  How many hundreds of hours went into programming *that* frivolity

Indeed +++1   but I suppose Avatar appeals to some!! and you know how we all love BOB in FSX and early P3D. He enabled us to crunch around the detailed airfields through the long grass and admire the devs handiwork up close.

[Adam Banks]

I have no use for either "Bob" or the avatar as I use the live camera views in OPUS to wander around the scenery!

 

Adam.

[Ed Correia]

We have replaced the windsocks at payware airports (new installer released ones) with ObjectFlow controlled ones. 

 

The other windsocks that are displayed at the enhanced airports in the regions are now using a static model, assuming you have the latest Orbxlibs installed. The static model does not react to the weather and does not show a "strong wind from the north" as the unsupported model did previously. 

 

This is all for P3Dv2/3 only. The FSX model is not compatible with P3Dv2/3 as it uses unsupported FS9 coding. 

 

So to summarise:

Payware airports updated with ObjectFlow windsocks reacting to weather conditions

Other airports now use a static model that does not react. We are not going to replace those windsocks with ObjectFlow ones.

 

 

 

[Adam Banks]

Thanks, Ed ... good summary!!! I take it there's no *easy* way of coding the "enhanced" airports in FTX areas <?>.

 

What I mean is (in the nicest possible way) ... "we're not likey to fix those, so shaddap!"

 

Adam.

[Ed Correia]

I don't know the exact numbers of airports included in the regions, maybe 1200 minimum? Here's what will need to happen for each one:

 

Open each airport individually in ADE

Locate the windsock placement(s) and make a note of lat/lon

Delete the windsock placement(s) in ADE

Compile the airport

Repeat for all airports

Take your x amount of lat/lon loactions

Create an xml file for ObjectFlow windsock

Sample code here for one windsock which has the 4 entries for variable wind speeds

<DynPlacement.Document>
    <Object>
        <GUID>{f49102cb-17fe-43fe-b71b-7a64875098db}</GUID>
        <RotateWithWind>1</RotateWithWind>
        <Condition>WIND_SPEED EQUAL 0</Condition>
        <Lat>47.5600488111377</Lat>
        <Lon>-121.866875588894</Lon>
        <AltAGL>0</AltAGL>
    </Object>
    <Object>
        <GUID>{c400d0da-6612-445e-8d8b-9a9419437b9e}</GUID>
        <RotateWithWind>1</RotateWithWind>
        <Condition>WIND_SPEED LESS_OR_EQUAL 5 AND WIND_SPEED GREATER_THAN 0</Condition> 
        <Lat>47.5600488111377</Lat>
        <Lon>-121.866875588894</Lon>
        <AltAGL>0</AltAGL>
    </Object>
    <Object>
        <GUID>{c3edcbb4-b1e8-4463-873c-1dd0bcbdd944}</GUID>
        <RotateWithWind>1</RotateWithWind>
        <Condition>WIND_SPEED GREATER_THAN 5 AND WIND_SPEED LESS_OR_EQUAL 15</Condition>
        <Lat>47.5600488111377</Lat>
        <Lon>-121.866875588894</Lon>
        <AltAGL>0</AltAGL>
    </Object>
    <Object>
        <GUID>{27728f1b-6afb-439e-be0c-17f256263d2a}</GUID>
        <RotateWithWind>1</RotateWithWind>
        <Condition>WIND_SPEED GREATER_THAN 15</Condition>
        <Lat>47.5600488111377</Lat>
        <Lon>-121.866875588894</Lon>
        <AltAGL>0</AltAGL>
    </Object>
</DynPlacement.Document>
<!-- Checksum: A55F766D -->

Repeat with either individual xml files for each airport or one bulk xml for a region

Create checksum for ObjectFlow - fix any reported errors in code

Test in sim

 

No intention of being a smart arse by explaining the above, it is just what it is. Automation, don't think its possible.

[Adam Banks]

Excellent, Ed!!! I didn't think for one minute that it would NOT be mindlessly repetiive/boring - BUT - isn't there already so much of exactly that kind of thing happening in any FTX area? I don't mean that disrespectfully - I mean I'm always amazed at just how much much "slog" must be required for an area to look so uncannily "natural" (ie. not created by hand).

 

I often think (particularly in NZNI/NZSI, which I think has the highest ratio of hand-placed objects per square mile) that each and every tree has been planted by some unseen/underpaid ORBX developer!

 

Having said all that - are the new wins socks likely to be in place correctly for new *areas*? I apprecaite re-working the "back catalgue" is a git of a no-no!

 

Adam.

 

P.S. I'm kind of semi-retired now - well used to repetitive procedueres (web developer) ... so send me an area and give me a ten-year deadline!

[Ed Correia]

Unfortunately the windsocks we have for P3D are ObjectFlow'd and that is reserved primarily for payware airports, so they won't be in new regions.

 

We are looking at other tech to move away from reliance in OF, so who knows what will happen there.

[Adam Banks]

3 hours ago, Ed Correia said:

We are looking at other tech to move away from reliance in OF, so who knows what will happen there.

 

Well ... I'm not the O.P., but that's good enough for me (!). With all the new methodology being applied by ORBX these days, I think I'm entitled to feel optimistic!

 

Adam.

[Matt McGee]

19 hours ago, mikegust said:

...

I really don't care about bunnies and the horses jumping all over the place, this is an aviation simulator, let's start with that and then make cute and useless decorations.

...

I agree with Mike's opinion.

 

I sympathize with the challenge of making add-ons that work with various versions of the sim.  I also concede that some people may find flies buzzing around an airport dumpster "immersive" as they walk around with an avatar.  However, winds socks are important in aviation.  That is why they were included in the sim in the first place.  It is very annoying to have the regions break the wind socks.  

 

Since the issue has been known to Orbx for quite some time and apparently a decision has been made to not fix it, there should be a warning in the Orbx product descriptions that windsocks will no longer work at "enhanced" airports in P3D v2/3.

[shortspecialbus]

I hate to pile on here but I agree with h3pilot.  I hadn't gotten around to searching for it, but I'd been noticing that the windsock didn't seem right - when flying I often try to check the windsock at the airport below me to get a landing direction, and I'd been thinking it was significantly different than the wind I was feeling on landing (I know I have a bazillion workarounds here  )

 

It might be worth making a prominent notification as having non-functional windsocks is at least confusing if not downright puzzling.  I definitely understand the cause and I sympathize with the lack of a reasonable solution and I won't clamor for it to be fixed, but it maybe should be noted a bit more prominently is all.

 

Just my $0.02 at whatever exchange rate you want

 

-stefan

 

[mikegust]

22 hours ago, Ed Correia said:

Payware airports updated with ObjectFlow windsocks reacting to weather conditions

Other airports now use a static model that does not react. We are not going to replace those windsocks with ObjectFlow ones.

 

 

On 5/17/2016 at 6:39 PM, Neil Hill said:

When placed correctly the standard ORBX windsocks work correctly, showing direction and even windspeed to some extent.

 

Neil

 

Looks like our conversation has been hijacked buy some obscure P3D problem.

One more time, windsocks function correctly in FSX but they are positioned not correctly.

In Scenery they are supposed to be pointing directly north.

Maybe it's really good that I have not updated my libraries because if it means that my windsocks stop functioning altogether, that is dealbreaker.

How can you make a decision like that instead of installing default windsocks that are functioning flawlessly.

I must be not understanding something, or maybe this is not an aviation simulator but some Game(?)

Happy downwind landings(!!)

mike

 

As a side note maybe also good that I didn't go P3D direction.

How can it be called "professional level flight simulator" and not have properly functioning windsocks (?)

 

[Ed Correia]

My fault, I thought the issue was about the windsocks in P3D. The only change was to the P3D version of the library. 

 

The default windsock even though ugly is probably the way to go with this region airports. 

 

[Neil Hill]

HI guys,

 

I've made the decision to  use only default windsocks in Pack 26 which will be sent in to Ed in the next couple of days.

 

Cheers, Neil

[mikegust]

On 5/27/2016 at 7:19 PM, Neil Hill said:

HI guys,

 

I've made the decision to  use only default windsocks in Pack 26 which will be sent in to Ed in the next couple of days.

 

Cheers, Neil

Thank you Neil for your response.

I am little bit misinformed and confused.

When you say "decision to  use only default windsocks" do you mean - replacing Orbx windsocks with default windsocks?

Does this mean that all existing yet improperly pointing windsocks would be now corrected and will work correctly in free airports for global as well as all the incorrectly pointing windsocks in regions?

When you say "Pack 26", it is set off global free airports, or want is it?

TH

HL

[Neil Hill]

HI Mike,

 

It means that when I sent in Pack 26 those airports I had done, all 30 of them, were changed back to default FSX windsocks.  It would be a major project to go back and replace windsocks at all the freeware airports I have done, (100's) so it is not my intention at the present to do that.  Larry Isenor will be using default windsocks from now on but they were not replaced for Pack 26.

 

Neil

[Henri_W]

Hi,

 

A few months ago I posted here that in FSX:SE the windsocks at the payware regional airports EGPB (Sumburgh) and EGHI (Southampton) were pointing 180 degree wrong, i.e. opposite to the wind. I understood that this would be fixed in upcoming quad installers. However, since then nothing happened. I am really disappointed that scenery that is so good otherwise fails to include a properly operating windsock that is really crucial to realistic flying. For me it means that I will no longer buy ORBX airports, until I know this issue is fixed, at least at the detailed payware airports.

 

Best regards,

 

Henri

[Henri_W]

Hi,

 

I see I really have to correct what I just wrote. It turns out that FSS does have a new installer, even though the version number remained unchanged. Therefore, I assumed that no new version had become available. In the release announcements here, however, it is mentioned that new versions of EGHI and EGPB had been made available. And sure enough, the windsock bgl files have been changed. The wonderful news is that windsocks now seem to be pointing in the right direction, at least at EGPB. I have all the reason to believe they are also correct at EGHI now. Excellent. Thanks so much for fixing this! Looking forward to flying at these wonderful airports and buying some more.

 

Best regards,

 

Henri