What is landclass?

[Jack Sawyer]

I have all the UTX's, are they landclasses?  If I buy Orbx's landclass will it overwrite the UTX's as I'd like to get rid of them and go all Orbx.

Or am I wrong?  I don't know too much about this stuff as I'll buy a region and airports and I have FTX Global but no landclass.

If the UTX's are LC's would it be better to uninstall them first then install Orbx's LC's?

Can someone please explain in simple terms for me?  I'm more of a pilot kind of guy than a scenery landclass/mesh guy.

 

[Matt McGee]

Jack,

 

Check out the Definitive Guide to FTX Products: http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/74345-the-definitive-guide-to-ftx-products-the-go-to-source-of-ftx-information/

Page 14 talks about Land Class (with pictures).

 

Page 12 begins a section that explains the various "layers" that make up FSX/P3D scenery.

The following section, staring on page 18, explains how the various Orbx products correspond to the "layers".

[Jack Sawyer]

Thanks Matt but what about all the UTX's I have.  Do I even need them if I buy FTX's?  Do I need to uninstall them?

How do I got about this?

[Jack Sawyer]

Well, I read the guide albeit quickly and it seems kind of out of date.  It refers to a product from 2010.  And it shows the old (before my FTX time) FTX Central.

 

I'd like just a simple answer about what I should do.

In my sig is listed most of my Orbx products, I have FTX Global, no LC or Vector but I do have a lot of regions like Wales, Scotland, Ireland, England.  Are these LC's too?

 

I'd just like some friendly advice on HOW to do it if I buy a LC from Orbx as I need a Dummy's kind of guide.

With this sale and prices set to go up I figure it's time to switch from UTX to Orbx as I want ALL Orbx because I'm completely satisfied with their products.

 

If someone could help me via PM or email or even here I would be most appreciative.

 

Thanks.

 

Jack 

[Alex Goff]

The guide is fairly up to date, it was last revised last year, although right at the time FTX Central was updated to V2 so it shows the older version.

 

Landclass is the tiles that make up most of the simulator world, they define what area is suburbs, farmland, city, forest, marsh, etc. Regions include landclass as part of their package.

 

UTX is most similar to Vector although it does contain some landclass, particularly for improving the definition of urban areas. OpenLC should not conflict with UTX, although you may lose some of the landclass included in UTX, but otherwise you can continue using it for vector data.

[Matt McGee]

Version 2 of the Definitive Guide was released in 2015.  If you go to page 12 and start at The Simulator "Layer Cake", there is an excellent diagram and subsequent explanations of the layers.

Terrain Mesh - a grid of elevation data.  (determines topography, hills, valleys, etc..)

Land Class - a grid that determines what class of land should be drawn at each point.  (grass field, farm, sparse trees, dense forest, desert, city, small town,...)

Textures and Autogen - The actual image file that is painted in each grid.  ("grass" texture gets painted in each grid where Land Class calls for "grass")  Autogen puts the appropriate tree or building type and density in each grid square, again according to what Land Class is calling for in that square.

Vector Data - a layer of lines (roads, rivers, power line) laid on top of the mesh, LC, & texture.

 

* A couple minutes of reading and looking at the pictures in the guide should give you a better idea of what each layer does than my descriptions.

 

Reading the next section, ORBX FTX Products (pg 18), explains how the products correspond to the layers.

FSGlobal 2010 FTX Edition - replaces the mesh layer (there are free mesh replacements available too)

openLC - replaces the default land class (for the coverage area, ie. EU, Alaska/Canada, upcoming rest of North America)

Global Base - replaces the default texture files.  (new Base textures are still placed where the LC layer tells it to go)

Global Vector - replaces the entire globe's vector layer. 

FTX terrain regions (Wales, England,..) contain ALL of the "layers" for their coverage area.

 

** Knowing what the FSX/P3D scenery layers do, and what layers a product is replacing, is key to understanding what you are going to get when you buy any brand of add-on scenery.

 

Sorry, but I don't have any UTX products to comment on what is "better".

I'm sure the compatibility forum has some discussions about if it is better/worse than Orbx's products and how they compliment, duplicate, or conflict with Orbx's products.

[Jack Sawyer]

Matt, thank you.

 

Alex, so UTX is like Vector?  It's not a landclass?  This is confusing to me, I apologize.

I guess I'll just keep things the way they are as I don't want to mess anything up.

This PC was built for me so I could just add planes and fly.  That's why I don't relly understand too much under the hood so to speak.

So answer me this. with all the regions I have, Wales, England, Scotland, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, do they all have landclass built into them?

I have uninstalled several add-ons from others because I thought Orbx was better.  For example, I had Aerosoft's VFR Lonon but it was an OOM nightmare, I like Orbx's version of it better with the England scenery I have.

Thanks guys, I'll have to look into this further and learn more I guess.

It's just that I have an itchy wallet right now with this sale on and want to buy buy buy.

 

 

[Matt McGee]

1 minute ago, JS07 said:

So answer me this. with all the regions I have, Wales, England, Scotland, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, do they all have landclass built into them?

 

 

Yes.  All the FTX terrain regions contain Land Class for their coverage areas.  

 

The terrain regions also contain vector data, textures, autogen, and mesh (Australia didn't include mesh, which is why there is AU Holgermesh on the Orbx freeware page.)

[Jack Sawyer]

Thanks again Matt, I appreciate your help.  I also have Global base and trees so I guess it is a landclass right?  Does Global override UTX?  Does any of these regions override UTX?

I'd like to uninstall it if someone thinks it's a good idea to save room on my SSD for more Orbx stuff and get away from UTX and go wil all Orbx.

[Matt McGee]

Jack,

Global Base and Trees HD are not land class.  They do not override UTX.

The textures from Global Base and the trees from Trees HD are both placed where your computer's land class "layer" tells them to go.  

 

In your case (no openLC EU or openLC Alaska/Canada) the default land class tells the texture and trees where to go in all the areas that you don't have UTX coverage.

In the areas where you do have UTX, UTX's land class is telling the textures and trees where to go.

 

If your FTX terrain regions (Wales, England, ...) are above UTX in your scenery library, they should override UTX for their respective coverage areas.

 

Personally, I would purchase Global Vector and then the openLC areas as they are released.  I would uninstall UTX for those areas as they come out.

I would also get an add-on mesh if you don't have one.  I'm using FreeMeshX.  (I'm not sure if your UTX has mesh, sorry.)

 

[Geezer]

In a word, if you're going Orbx, you'll want to give up UTX.  I did.  UTX is vector and landclass.  Orbx vector is better because it covers the entire world.  Orbx landclass Open LC is better because it looks nicer.  Orbx global essentially is land textures for the whole world.  Kinda like all GEX regions put together. 

[Jack Sawyer]

Thanks a lot Matt, this really helps.  I will probably take your advice as this was the kind of answer I was looking for.

 

Best regards.

 

[Jack Sawyer]

1 minute ago, Geezer said:

In a word, if you're going Orbx, you'll want to give up UTX.  I did.  UTX is vector and landclass.  Orbx vector is better because it covers the entire world.  Orbx landclass Open LC is better because it looks nicer.  Orbx global essentially is land textures for the whole world.  Kinda like all GEX regions put together. 

I have GEX but I think Global overwrote it, at least I hope it did as I didn't like GEX as much as I like Orbx's.

 

[Geezer]

Yes it overwrote.  They are both worldwide land textures and you can only use one at a time.  Hey, you got here at the right time with the sale going on. 

[Jack Sawyer]

Just now, Geezer said:

Yes it overwrote.  They are both worldwide land textures and you can only use one at a time.  Hey, you got here at the right time with the sale going on. 

Yup, BONUS!  I have a ton of Orbx stuff, and with this sale I want more.  

 

[Jack Sawyer]

13 minutes ago, Geezer said:

In a word, if you're going Orbx, you'll want to give up UTX.  I did.  UTX is vector and landclass.  Orbx vector is better because it covers the entire world.  Orbx landclass Open LC is better because it looks nicer.  Orbx global essentially is land textures for the whole world.  Kinda like all GEX regions put together. 

Can I give up UTX and get Orbx's LC and NOT use Vector?

That's what I'd really like to do.

 

[Geezer]

Yeah, you can do that.  You'll use the FSX default vector which isn't all that bad.  And there's a lot of freeware & payware scenery available that's compatible. 

[ShawnG]

or you can just disable the LC parts of UTX and use UTX's vector only if you want.  I don't have any UTX currently installed myself, but I used to use it, and it has a configurator that allows you you to turn off parts of it.  The sim's default vector isn't that bad for the continental USA and I think Japan,  but in other parts of the world it's pretty terrible.  I recommend going back and reading the guide.  the chance of someone being able to explain the intricacies of the fs scenery system and all the things in the fsx sdk in a few forum posts is pretty low.  a little knowledge will save you a ton of money and time. 

[Jack Sawyer]

Thanks Shawn, I guess all I have to do now is read some manuals and figure things out.  Maybe I'll actually learn something.  

[Jack Sawyer]

11 hours ago, h3pilot said:

Version 2 of the Definitive Guide was released in 2015.  If you go to page 12 and start at The Simulator "Layer Cake", there is an excellent diagram and subsequent explanations of the layers.

Terrain Mesh - a grid of elevation data.  (determines topography, hills, valleys, etc..)

Land Class - a grid that determines what class of land should be drawn at each point.  (grass field, farm, sparse trees, dense forest, desert, city, small town,...)

Textures and Autogen - The actual image file that is painted in each grid.  ("grass" texture gets painted in each grid where Land Class calls for "grass")  Autogen puts the appropriate tree or building type and density in each grid square, again according to what Land Class is calling for in that square.

Vector Data - a layer of lines (roads, rivers, power line) laid on top of the mesh, LC, & texture.

 

* A couple minutes of reading and looking at the pictures in the guide should give you a better idea of what each layer does than my descriptions.

 

Reading the next section, ORBX FTX Products (pg 18), explains how the products correspond to the layers.

FSGlobal 2010 FTX Edition - replaces the mesh layer (there are free mesh replacements available too)

openLC - replaces the default land class (for the coverage area, ie. EU, Alaska/Canada, upcoming rest of North America)

Global Base - replaces the default texture files.  (new Base textures are still placed where the LC layer tells it to go)

Global Vector - replaces the entire globe's vector layer. 

FTX terrain regions (Wales, England,..) contain ALL of the "layers" for their coverage area.

 

** Knowing what the FSX/P3D scenery layers do, and what layers a product is replacing, is key to understanding what you are going to get when you buy any brand of add-on scenery.

 

Sorry, but I don't have any UTX products to comment on what is "better".

I'm sure the compatibility forum has some discussions about if it is better/worse than Orbx's products and how they compliment, duplicate, or conflict with Orbx's products.

Hi Matt, I'm reading and learning now.  So let ask you this, I have al lot of N/A regions like PNW, Northern California, CRM, NRM, Pacific Fjords.

So if I buy the Orbx N/A LC which one will have priority?  The region or the new LC I buy?

 

[Stewart Hobson]

Hi, Jack.  The Full Regions always take precedence over the OpenLC NA, since they are above the OpenLC in the Scenery Library.  The user places the OpenLC in the proper order according the manual's instructions.  Lots of problems with folks not knowimg where to place the OpenLC in relation to the Full Regions, but the instructions in the manual are clear.

[Matt McGee]

Jack,

The regions should have priority.  

 

Your regions should look the same if you add openLC or Vector, since the regions already contain updated land class data and vector data (textures and autogen too).

 

Edit: Looks like I posted at the same time as Stewart

[Jack Sawyer]

GREAT!  Thanks fellas!  I have spent many hours last night and all day today just reading, copying and pasting into a Pages document on my iMac, and basically trying to learn and understand all this stuff.

My goal is to eliminate all third party stuff and go only with Orbx.

But I have GEX installed originally.  And UTX.

THEN I bought and installed Global Base.

And I'm led to understand that Global overwrote all of the GEX files.

However, if I now uninstall GEX will it delete any Orbx files since they overwrote GEX?

Will I damage things by uninstalling GEX as I want to get more room on the SSD.

 

[Jack Sawyer]

I also have Scenery Tech Indo-Pacific

North America

Europe.

Should these be uninstalled too when I buy the N/A and Europe LC's?

 

[Matt McGee]

30 minutes ago, JS07 said:

And I'm led to understand that Global overwrote all of the GEX files.

However, if I now uninstall GEX will it delete any Orbx files since they overwrote GEX?

Will I damage things by uninstalling GEX as I want to get more room on the SSD.

Jack,

Yes, Global overwrote the GEX files in the default texture folder location.

Yes, GEX will overwrite Orbx files in the same location when it uninstalls and restores the default textures.

No, you won't "damage" anything by uninstalling GEX, but you will need to reinstall Global.

 

* I recommend uninstalling Global Base first, then uninstall GEX, then reinstall Global Base.

 

Sounds like a pain right?  Here is why I would do it that way:

 

GEX and Global do the same thing.  They replaces the "texture" files in the default texture folder location and save a copy of whatever was in that location.

When you first installed GEX, it saved a copy of the default textures and then wrote GEX textures into the sim's texture folders.

When you subsequently installed Global Base, it saved a copy of the textures that were in the default texture folder, but those textures were GEX, not default.  

So the texture restore file that Global created, does not have a copy of the default FSX/P3D textures in it.

 

Uninstalling Global Base will "restore" GEX textures and delete a "restore" file full of GEX textures that you don't need.

Uninstalling GEX will "restore" the default FSX/P3D textures.

Reinstalling Global Base will then be able to save a back-up of the default FSX/P3D textures.

 

 

Not a clue about Scenery Tech.  

I might make a dedicated post in the FTX Compatibility Forum. http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/forum/80-ftx-compatibility-forum/

 

[Jack Sawyer]

Matt, thank you SO very much!  It's great to have someone like you to hold my hand through this and explain in simple terms what I need to do.  This now makes it a LOT easier for me.  I really appreicate it.  You have been very helpful to me.

I'm going to print this out and do it step by step, thank goodness I had Acronis installed when they built my PC in case something goes wrong.

 

Now I have to figure out what to do with UTX.

 

Best regards.

 

Jack

[Stewart Hobson]

2 hours ago, JS07 said:

Now I have to figure out what to do with UTX.

 

Best regards.

 

Jack

Dump it. 

[Jack Sawyer]

15 minutes ago, Stewart Hobson said:

Dump it. 

LOL!  Yes, I agree Stew but how?

I started a new thread in the Compatilbility Forum where I think I should have started this one (I know, I'm a dummy).  I'll freely admit it, I'm not as savvy as you guys but thank goodness you guys are willing to help me!

 

As I type this on my iPad I am downloading (or attempting to) the Europe LC which is four HUGE files!  Then I have to download N/A.  But it' all bought and paid for so all I need is advice on what to do.  I already have great advice on what to do with GEX, now I need the same, hold-my-hand advice with UTX.  I want no other company's stuff, just Orbx.

 

Thanks Stew.  

[Stewart Hobson]

No problem, Jack.  Wish I could help with UTX, but I never owned it, so wouldn't know how to uninstall it.  You can't uninstall it using Control Panel??  I would uninstall it from your Scenery Library first, then see about deleting it from your computer.

[Jack Sawyer]

14 minutes ago, Stewart Hobson said:

No problem, Jack.  Wish I could help with UTX, but I never owned it, so wouldn't know how to uninstall it.  You can't uninstall it using Control Panel??  I would uninstall it from your Scenery Library first, then see about deleting it from your computer.

Yes, I can uninstall all of them from the Start Menu.  That's what I need to do as GEX and UTX take up a LOT of space and now that I see how large Orbx's two LC's I bought are I wonder about space, I should have enough but I want to get rid of stuff I don't really need.

Thanks again Stew. 

[Deacon Blue]

Jack, (et al)

 

Thanks for this thread! 

 

I'm in the same boat as you and am contemplating what to do for my vector data solution, once ORBX Open LC NA/Mexico is released.

 

Do I keep UTX (vector and some city Landclass) or go with FTX Vector (global Vector data)?

**( I am using UTX simply because ORBX had not come out with their FTX Vector product yet) **

 

I obviously use FTX Global for my Textures (outside of Full ORBX regions of course)!

 

Thus, I will be switching to Open LC NA/Mexico, and removing SceneryTech (North America), for my landclass solution , once it's released

SceneryTech has served me well but it looks like ORBX have hit a home run with their Open LC NA/Mexico

 

Can anyone chime in that's used both UTX & FTX Vector with regards to the accuracy of the data? 

(( I'll probably go with vector since it covers the entire globe  ))

 

Thanks,

-DB

[Jack Sawyer]

22 hours ago, h3pilot said:

Jack,

Yes, Global overwrote the GEX files in the default texture folder location.

Yes, GEX will overwrite Orbx files in the same location when it uninstalls and restores the default textures.

No, you won't "damage" anything by uninstalling GEX, but you will need to reinstall Global.

 

* I recommend uninstalling Global Base first, then uninstall GEX, then reinstall Global Base.

 

Sounds like a pain right?  Here is why I would do it that way:

 

GEX and Global do the same thing.  They replaces the "texture" files in the default texture folder location and save a copy of whatever was in that location.

When you first installed GEX, it saved a copy of the default textures and then wrote GEX textures into the sim's texture folders.

When you subsequently installed Global Base, it saved a copy of the textures that were in the default texture folder, but those textures were GEX, not default.  

So the texture restore file that Global created, does not have a copy of the default FSX/P3D textures in it.

 

Uninstalling Global Base will "restore" GEX textures and delete a "restore" file full of GEX textures that you don't need.

Uninstalling GEX will "restore" the default FSX/P3D textures.

Reinstalling Global Base will then be able to save a back-up of the default FSX/P3D textures.

 

 

Not a clue about Scenery Tech.  

I might make a dedicated post in the FTX Compatibility Forum. http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/forum/80-ftx-compatibility-forum/

 

Hi again Matt.

I now have all the files downloaded for the Orbx LC's but I'm like a deer in the headlights.

Without advice I may never get them installed and I paid $47+ for them yesterday.

I need to know if I should also uninstall Scenery Tech N/A and Scenery Tech Canada and Orbx's LC should be replacements right?

I'm do confused as what to do.  I hate this feeling.

I spent a great deal of time last night reading the UTX manual and the Orbx guide to scenery and learned enough to be dangerous.

It appears that UTX is part LC and part Vector.  So I don't know if I should just keep that but will UTX override the LC?

So it's like this.

1. Uninstall FTX Global

2. Uninstall GEX, all of them.

3. Reintstall FTX Global.

4. Do I uninstall Scenery Tech's stuff?

5. Do I uninstall all the UTX's?

 

Otherwise I have five huge files just collecting virtual dust.

 

[Matt McGee]

Jack,

I don't have any Scenery Tech products, but I think they are just land class replacements and thus duplicate what Orbx's openLC areas do.

 

The sim will prioritize whatever is listed highest in the scenery library.  Entry #1 is "above" or "higher" than #2.

(Mesh is the exception to the rule.  The sim will use whatever mesh has the best resolution, even if it is listed at the bottom of the library.) 

 

If openLC EU is "above" Scenery Tech Europe, the sim will use openLC when you fly in Europe, so Scenery Tech is just taking up space.

However, the sim will still use Scenery Tech land class for areas not yet covered by openLC, like Africa or Asia.

You could certainly leave Scenery Tech products installed for non-openLC areas until the respective openLC area is released.

 

* IMHO, I would uninstall your Scenery Tech products which duplicate the openLC areas that you have purchased.

 

I don't have UTX, but understand that it has both land class and vector data.  

If UTX is listed "below" openLC in the scenery library, openLC's land class should take priority, but I think that UTX vector data should still show up in the sim, since you don't have Global Vector.  (FWIW, I have, and like, Global Vector.)

 

In areas not yet covered by openLC, UTX is providing both land class and vector data, so it may be worth keeping for those areas.

For the areas covered by openLC, you are again duplicating the land class and wasting some disk space.  However, you are still gaining some benefit from the UTX vector data, so you might want to keep it installed, just ensure that it is below openLC in the scenery library so the openLC data will have priority.

[Jack Sawyer]

Thanks Matt, you've been a great help to me.  I really appreciate it.

I am going to take your advice..

 

Another question.

if I buy Vector then I can uninstall all the UTX's?

 

[larryisenor]

21 hours ago, Deacon Blue said:

Can anyone chime in that's used both UTX & FTX Vector with regards to the accuracy of the data? 

(( I'll probably go with vector since it covers the entire globe  ))

The UTX data is more detailed and shows every road while vector shows only more important roads. As the Landclass has roads on it this works OK. If you install Vector and UTX in the default locations UTX will overwrite vector in the areas where it exists. The Road and water data are close but not identical (They are from different sources). If you are using Orbx Landclass I would turn off the UTX landclass files as Orbx has modified some of the landclasses and added some new ones. Either one is much better than the default. If you have Orbx regions they will overwrite the UTX vector data and match very well at the boundaries (as does Vector)

Larry

[Matt McGee]

1 hour ago, JS07 said:

if I buy Vector then I can uninstall all the UTX's?

Yes, but.... 

 

Global Vector covers the globe, so UTX vector data would now be duplicated by Global Vector.

UTX's land class is duplicated by openLC, within the existing openLC areas (Europe, Alaska/Canada, and soon to be released North America).

You are now duplicating a bunch of vector and land class data, which is a waste of disk space.

However, UTX would still be providing you with land class data for non-openLC areas, until the rest of the openLC areas are released.

 

You could choose to keep UTX for non-openLC areas and then uninstall them as you purchase each subsequent openLC.

- or -

For simplicity, you could certainly uninstall all of UTX now.  Though you will be going back to the default land class for all the areas not yet covered by openLC.

 

Edit:  There is a post by JV, that I can't find at the moment, which mentions that openLC North America (or USA/Mexico or whatever the final name is) will have some improved vector data included with it.  Yes, improved vector data included in a land class product.

 

 

[Jack Sawyer]

Thanks guys.

First I don't know UTX had LC in it so how do I turn off UTX's LC?

I was thinking about just uninstalling UTX and buying Vector so it'll be all Orbx 

[Matt McGee]

5 hours ago, JS07 said:

Thanks guys.

First I don't know UTX had LC in it so how do I turn off UTX's LC?

I was thinking about just uninstalling UTX and buying Vector so it'll be all Orbx 

I don't own UTX, but their web site mentions both vector data and land class with regard to their Ultimate Terrain products.

I don't know if you can "turn off" the land class part of UTX, but if you have it below openLC in your scenery library, Orbx should take priority.

* When P3D is running, hit the ALT key to open the menu bar at the top of the screen, select World and then Scenery Library to check your scenery priority.

 

Uninstalling UTX and buying Global Vector is a simple way to go, the Orbx products are designed to work together and you'll have no duplicated vector or land class data.

[Jack Sawyer]

Thanks yet again Matt, you have been a great help to me.

 

Vector it is then.

 

So please tell me if I have the correct order because I want to clean out all but Orbx and some Fly Tampa airports.

 

1. Uninstall FTX Global.

2. Uninstall GEX.

3. Uninstall Scenery Tech N/A & Europe (because I just bought Orbx LC's)

4. Uninstall all UTX's (because I am being Vector)

5. Install FTX Global.

6. Install FTX LC's

7. Install Vector.

 

Sound right?

Do I need to do anything with FTX Central 2 while I'm doing this?

Do I need to run FSX after each installation or uninstallation?

 

This is the step by step help I needed so much and all the information you have provided.

 

 

[Jack Sawyer]

Before I uninstall FTX Global then reinstall it what do I set FTX Central too?

 

Should I install the two LC's first or Vector?

 

Thanks.