RESOLVED Ugly scenery. My setup or what am I doing wrong?

[walterg74]

Hi.  I purchased and installed FTX Global, and I have a few other base addons.

 

Went to fly somewhere that is supposed to look nice, but what I see is frankly horrible to me...

 

Trying to determine what's going on, what I have configured wrong etc...

 

My only add-ons are:

 

- FTX Global

- FS Global Ultimate (All regions)

- UTX USA 2.1 / UTX Europe 2.1

- REX4 TD + Soft Clouds

 

The area I just tested is Miami, and well, looks like this...

 

 

 

What could be wrong?

[jabble]

Hi Walter,

 

At the very least you have the blurries - your sim engine can't draw the level of detail you want.  The simple answer is to turn down the settings (e.g. autogen, traffic) until the blurries go away.  There may be tweaks to the .cfg file you could use too.

 

Global Base is a texture replacer- doesn't UTX do that too?  If so, a clash is possible and you need to check compatibility, but I don't know that.

[walterg74]

Hi Walter,

 

At the very least you have the blurries - your sim engine can't draw the level of detail you want.  The simple answer is to turn down the settings (e.g. autogen, traffic) until the blurries go away.  There may be tweaks to the .cfg file you could use too.

 

Global Base is a texture replacer- doesn't UTX do that too?  If so, a clash is possible and you need to check compatibility, but I don't know that.

 

Hi there!

 

Yes, I don't know, I had it pretty much nice before yesterday and adding the rest so something got screwed up...  I did turn down the settings but nothing improves, so I'm pretty sure it's not a performance issue (or at least not one related to the sliders).

 

Global is like you say a texture replacement, but UTX is not the same, it is Vector + Landclass (It would be what FTX Vector and Open LC do together), there are no major compatibility issues between them and they play nice together.

 

Took some more sreenshots...

 

.

[jabble]

OK, are you up to date with patches and Orbxlibs?  Are the sceneries in the order needed to coexist with UTX?  Did you set an insertion point in FTXCentral2?

 

Also, while I'm sure most of us can find Miami , it would help to include coordinates with screenshots so we can compare directly - you can do that with shift-z in the sim.

[walterg74]

OK, are you up to date with patches and Orbxlibs?  Are the sceneries in the order needed to coexist with UTX?  Did you set an insertion point in FTXCentral2?

 

Also, while I'm sure most of us can find Miami , it would help to include coordinates with screenshots so we can compare directly - you can do that with shift-z in the sim.

 

I was up to date on all that, and I had installed. Last thing I had done was to disable lights in ftx central, don't know if I need to reinstall aain (the libs) just for changing a setting. Couldn't hurt in any case...

 

One thing I did, since I just updated my video driver, was delete the FSX profile in CCC, and create a new one. That seems to have helped quite a lot.... I'll post some more screenies.

 

Regarding the coordinates sure, I'll remember to put them in, but it's just taking off from KMIA, going straight (like 2/4 mins into the flight)

[Dave_YVR]

One thing I did, since I just updated my video driver, was delete the FSX profile in CCC, and create a new one.

 

 

 

 Video drivers can cause huge differences in image quality between various sets.. I'd suggest going back to ones that worked well for you before just to see.

[dominique]

As Jabble said, it very muck looks like your machine cannot cope with what you throw at it. What's your configuration : CPU with clock and graphic card ?

[walterg74]

As Jabble said, it very muck looks like your machine cannot cope with what you throw at it. What's your configuration : CPU with clock and graphic card ?

 

I don't think that's it, I even played around with the sliders lowering and makes no difference whatsoever. Besides, it's not a performance issue where everything crawls, as FPS are fine, but just get those weird textures and the popping.

 

In any case, my system is an i7 4790K@4.4Ghz with 16GB of 2400 RAM and 2xR9 290 4GB video cards. Everything is running off SSDs (separate one for OS and another for FSX)

[dominique]

No, you shouldn't have any problem with your racehorse of a rig !

I don't know how an AMD card works (always had Nvidia cards) so I will pull out of that one. Two things though : your anisotropic slider is where it should be, at x16 ? And have you tried to run on one 290 only as FSX does not notoriously like SLI configurations.

[walterg74]

 Video drivers can cause huge differences in image quality between various sets.. I'd suggest going back to ones that worked well for you before just to see.

 

That was going to be my next step, but first I deleted the fsx.exe specific profile and re-created it with it's AA, etc. settings and seems to have improved:

 

No, you shouldn't have any problem with your racehorse of a rig !

I don't know how an AMD card works (always had Nvidia cards) so I will pull out of that one. Two things though : your anisotropic slider is where it should be, at x16 ? And have you tried to run on one 290 only as FSX does not notoriously like SLI configurations.

 

Yeah, I just re-created checking all those settings and seems to have improved some...

 

Maybe it's also that the Miami area there is kinda shitty?

Regarding the 2 cards, I think it's kind of like the opposite. If the game doesn't have support for Crossfire it just won't use it (when games do you can toggle a little banner that shows you it has been activated)

You know what also would be nice? If some staff actually replied here in this *support* post, *cough* *cough*....

[Doug Sawatzky]

Regarding the 2 cards, I think it's kind of like the opposite. If the game doesn't have support for Crossfire it just won't use it (when games do you can toggle a little banner that shows you it has been activated)

You know what also would be nice? If some staff actually replied here in this *support* post, *cough* *cough*....

 

Actually..having two GPU's  demands more resources from your CPU and usually decreases performance in FSX....IMHO having two R9 290 4GB is not only useless put counterproductive for FSX.

 

Why would you need staff to reply? This is not a problem with the product....

[dominique]

Not sure you have a problem with Global base.

It looks more one with the UT vectorized stuff overloading your hardware or with your hardware settings themselves. Have you try to fly outside an UT area ? Like, of all places, Argentina. Still have tbe same problem ?

BTW this is FSX with a 4.5 LOD, right? So the autogen popping is normal fare ! Not the blurries though. Have you tried to set up the LOD at 6.5 ?

[walterg74]

Actually..having two GPU's  demands more resources from your CPU and usually decreases performance in FSX....IMHO having two R9 290 4GB is not only useless put counterproductive for FSX.

 

Why would you need staff to reply? This is not a problem with the product....

 

Hmm sorry but I disagree. When not used the second card is at idle with everything at 0% and no resource usage:

 

 

Here's why:

 

what that is, is your 2nd GPU in DEEP DEEP SLEEP.

gpu z shows 32 bus cause it cant detect the card properly in deep sleep.

 

Regarding the staff, well the product may not be broken, of course, but that's what support is for, to help you troubleshoot issues on your setup (otherwise there would be absolutely no point in having a "support" forum if the product just works...)

 

[walterg74]

Not sure you have a problem with Global base.

It looks more one with the UT vectorized stuff overloading your hardware or with your hardware settings themselves. Have you try to fly outside an UT area ? Like, of all places, Argentina. Still have tbe same problem ?

BTW this is FSX with a 4.5 LOD, right? So the autogen popping is normal fare ! Not the blurries though. Have you tried to set up the LOD at 6.5 ?

 

Yes, tried from 4.5 up to 8.5, nothing...

 

I will try disabling UTX and see what I get

[dominique]

I was on a tablet by my pool  and came back home to my desktop. The last batch of pics looks much better to me on a larger screen. You changed the anisotropic at x16, right ? In FSX or in a 290 control Panel ?

 

Not sure you will get much sharper than that with a LOD of 4.5, vector roads, improved shorelines and a dense urban area . Also, your pics are shot very close to Miami International. You have a lot of traffic going on ?  A LOD is a distance weighted by a load...

 

This what  I see from your last point of view with Global + Vector in P3D. P3D regular LOD is 6.5, the colors are stronger, thanks to DX11. DX9 tends to wash them out in FSX. Interestingly enough, UT calls urban landclass textures where the default sees none, on the left. After checking on Google Earth, UT is right.

 

 

and toward KMIA

 

 

 

Autogen popping is another issue, it comes included with FSX  . You don't want popping, you go P3D. No popping.

[walterg74]

Hi, yes, within FSX I have it set to anisotropic for the filtering and AA *un*checked.  Then in CCC I set AA to 4X, supersampling, etc. like that ATI recommendaitons thread going around (I think @avsim).

 

I am seeing that if I disable UTX, I get more vegetation and the like just like what you show. The first 3 are with UTX disabled, and then the last 2 re-enabled:

 

 

 

 

 

 

My theory now is that UTX is calling a different texture according to it's landclass, but for some reason these textures are extremely ugly!!! Wouldn't that be an FTX texture though and in theory good looking/improved..?

[Nick Cooper]

Re the "support staff" question.

I have been watching this topic develop and you have been receiving

exceptional support from Dominique for which I offer thanks.

I don't have any UTX products and no AMD hardware which means I

would have been guessing.

 

As Doug has pointed out, the problem is not with an FTX product and

best of all, you seem to have solved it.

[walterg74]

Re the "support staff" question.

I have been watching this topic develop and you have been receiving

exceptional support from Dominique for which I offer thanks.

I don't have any UTX products and no AMD hardware which means I

would have been guessing.

 

As Doug has pointed out, the problem is not with an FTX product and

best of all, you seem to have solved it.

 

Hi Nick, thanks for the input!

 

My only doubt lies within the last post/sentence. Does that image look like the right urban (or whichever it is) ORBX/FTX texture? Maybe it's just me and that is what it looks like and I just suffer from "looking anxiety", as it's not meant to be looked at from so close. However, it seems rather very bad compared to the other textures I'm seeing which look spot on like ORBX stuff.

[Nick Cooper]

I have tried to reproduce your third shot, for comparison purposes, identical shots with

various scenery enabled or disabled are the most useful.

 

This includes Global and Vector and my water textures are not default.

 

 

[walterg74]

So besides the zoom they're not that different as the only add-ons I have besides mesh are FTX Global and UTX which was disabled there (granted you have vector which has in the shot a few differences I roads, etc. but overall looks pretty much the same).

 

But my concern is what I see on shots 4 & 5 which is when I re-enabled UTX. Granted for this precise location without UTX you will see something different, but since my concern is that the texture ultimately is provided by FTXG (UTX would just say which one to pull up), does that look right to you? Is there any location you could tell me / show me that uses this urban landclass so I can go to and compare it?

[Nick Cooper]

I think this is the same, New York, I have left the coordinates so you can go and compare.

Somehow they don't look like yours, are you sure UTX doesn't have its own?

 

 

They look a lot better with autogen

 

[walterg74]

Well I wouldn't swear on it, but as far as I know, UTX just has land class and vector data, no textures at all as that is in their GEX product.

 

I'll check those coordinates and report back!

[walterg74]

Ok, here they are. *More or less* around the same spot.

 

I guess they're OK and maybe Miami is just a bit screwed up?

 

 

[GordonGekko]

UTX has its own set of textures it uses for certain landclass objects like cemeteries, golf courses, shipping areas, business districts, etc., and these textures it uses are not designed to color match Global textures, but more like defualt FSX textures, which is why they stand out so much and don't look good when using Global.

If you open the UTX UI and go into the features area on the left side you can turn off these textures and just use the underlying landclass that you have to render the same features using the Global textures.

That being said, you can still use UTX for all the vector stuff but you may want to turn off some of the special landclass polygons they use for now until FTX released their own landclass product for the US. You can turn these features off in the UI on the right side where it says Other Terrain Features, look at the pic below to see where. Just click the + sign to expand the selections.

[walterg74]

I think this is the same, New York, I have left the coordinates so you can go and compare.

Somehow they don't look like yours, are you sure UTX doesn't have its own?

 

 

They look a lot better with autogen

 

 

Oh Nick, you don-t know how crazy I went with these, even going to the UTX guys and saying "hey, if your stuff is so accurate, why don't I even see liberty island, ellis island, etc???"

 

Then I realized your shots are *not* new York but Chicago...

UTX has its own set of textures it uses for certain landclass objects like cemeteries, golf courses, shipping areas, business districts, etc., and these textures it uses are not designed to color match Global textures, but more like defualt FSX textures, which is why they stand out so much and don't look good when using Global.

If you open the UTX UI and go into the features area on the left side you can turn off these textures and just use the underlying landclass that you have to render the same features using the Global textures.

That being said, you can still use UTX for all the vector stuff but you may want to turn off some of the special landclass polygons they use for now until FTX released their own landclass product for the US. You can turn these features off in the UI on the right side where it says Other Terrain Features, look at the pic below to see where. Just click the + sign to expand the selections.

 

Hi Gordon,

 

I don't think that is entirely right.. what you're showing are land class definitions, as UTX has Land Class and Vector data, but no textures. That is on their GEX product.

[GordonGekko]

I don't think that is entirely right.. what you're showing are land class definitions, as UTX has Land Class and Vector data, but no textures. That is on their GEX product.

Sorry but you're wrong.

Yes, UTX includes land class for the regular landclass lookup table and also Vector data but in the other section I mention and provided a screen shot of under "Other Terrain Features" they include their own textures to model these features that aren't part of the regular landclass lookup table.

That is why GEX has compatibility features that can be run to overwrite the UTX textures that don't color match GEX very well.

Trust me, I've been at this for a long time and know what I'm talking about. UTX has its own limited amount of textures for the "Other Terrain Features" if you leave them checked. For example, in that section there is an option for race tracks or sport tracks. FSX by default or GEX or Global don't have a texture for race/sport tracks, but if you enable them in UTX then they will use their own texture to display them. Same goes for gold courses, shipping yards and the other custom landclass polys.

I hate to say your wrong, but in this case you are. Open that + sign for "Other Terrain Features" uncheck all the options and then run FSX and you will see the difference. I've been there and done that and can speak from experience and knowledge of what the product does and includes.

If you still don't believe me read the product page include in the screen shot below in the area titled Ground Textures and you will see a list of the ground textures included. Near the bottom of the list is concrete area which I believe to look bad when used with Global since they don't color match and stick out like a sore thumb.

[Nick Cooper]

Oh Nick, you don-t know how crazy I went with these, even going to the UTX guys and saying "hey, if your stuff is so accurate, why don't I even see liberty island, ellis island, etc???"

 

Then I realized your shots are *not* new York but Chicago...

 

Sorry, senior moment but the point is made, I think.

[walterg74]

Sorry but you're wrong.

Yes, UTX includes land class for the regular landclass lookup table and also Vector data but in the other section I mention and provided a screen shot of under "Other Terrain Features" they include their own textures to model these features that aren't part of the regular landclass lookup table.

That is why GEX has compatibility features that can be run to overwrite the UTX textures that don't color match GEX very well.

Trust me, I've been at this for a long time and know what I'm talking about. UTX has its own limited amount of textures for the "Other Terrain Features" if you leave them checked. For example, in that section there is an option for race tracks or sport tracks. FSX by default or GEX or Global don't have a texture for race/sport tracks, but if you enable them in UTX then they will use their own texture to display them. Same goes for gold courses, shipping yards and the other custom landclass polys.

I hate to say your wrong, but in this case you are. Open that + sign for "Other Terrain Features" uncheck all the options and then run FSX and you will see the difference. I've been there and done that and can speak from experience and knowledge of what the product does and includes.

If you still don't believe me read the product page include in the screen shot below in the area titled Ground Textures and you will see a list of the ground textures included. Near the bottom of the list is concrete area which I believe to look bad when used with Global since they don't color match and stick out like a sore thumb.

 

 

Hmm ok, interesting. I will take a closer look then.

 

So I'm guessing you cant just disable the textures, otherwise the LC can{t call them, and you have to turn off the features altogether upon which the default class will be called.  This kinda sucks, cause you're either forced to go GEX or turn it off... Wish they would have put some nicer textures then...

[Voyager]

Sorry but you're wrong.

Yes, UTX includes land class for the regular landclass lookup table and also Vector data but in the other section I mention and provided a screen shot of under "Other Terrain Features" they include their own textures to model these features that aren't part of the regular landclass lookup table.

That is why GEX has compatibility features that can be run to overwrite the UTX textures that don't color match GEX very well.

Trust me, I've been at this for a long time and know what I'm talking about. UTX has its own limited amount of textures for the "Other Terrain Features" if you leave them checked. For example, in that section there is an option for race tracks or sport tracks. FSX by default or GEX or Global don't have a texture for race/sport tracks, but if you enable them in UTX then they will use their own texture to display them. Same goes for gold courses, shipping yards and the other custom landclass polys.

I hate to say your wrong, but in this case you are. Open that + sign for "Other Terrain Features" uncheck all the options and then run FSX and you will see the difference. I've been there and done that and can speak from experience and knowledge of what the product does and includes.

If you still don't believe me read the product page include in the screen shot below in the area titled Ground Textures and you will see a list of the ground textures included. Near the bottom of the list is concrete area which I believe to look bad when used with Global since they don't color match and stick out like a sore thumb. [...]

 

 

Very interesting your observations. That's why I keep an eye on issues that appear here: to learn!

 

Cheers,

[GordonGekko]

Hmm ok, interesting. I will take a closer look then.

So I'm guessing you cant just disable the textures, otherwise the LC can{t call them, and you have to turn off the features altogether upon which the default class will be called. This kinda sucks, cause you're either forced to go GEX or turn it off... Wish they would have put some nicer textures then...

If the folks at Scenery Solutions would make some alternative textures for the special polys to blend better then it would work fine, but as it stands they only make a special set for GEX users, probably since it's another Flight1 product. They do offer some road casing alternative textures to blend with Global that you can download from the Scenery Solutions website.

As far as the Other Terrain Features, the only ones I leave ticked are beaches, golf courses, cemeteries, and road interchanges. I leave all the concrete stuff like shipping yards, business districts and glaciers turned off since they look horrible with Global.

[walterg74]

If the folks at Scenery Solutions would make some alternative textures for the special polys to blend better then it would work fine, but as it stands they only make a special set for GEX users, probably since it's another Flight1 product. They do offer some road casing alternative textures to blend with Global that you can download from the Scenery Solutions website.

As far as the Other Terrain Features, the only ones I leave ticked are beaches, golf courses, cemeteries, and road interchanges. I leave all the concrete stuff like shipping yards, business districts and glaciers turned off since they look horrible with Global.

 

Yes, they pointed me to download that "patch" to blend in with global for the casings...

 

It's something at least.

 

I guess it's a compromise one makes, because I like Global, but I think at least for now UTX is better (and ORBX still hasn't released any other LC). Maybe in the future I will get better versions of Vector/LC if they get released but can-t for now, and I will definitely not buy GEX at the price it costs to cover the world (and that's without mentioning that if you want P3D you have to pay twice...).

[GordonGekko]

Yes, they pointed me to download that "patch" to blend in with global for the casings...

It's something at least.

I guess it's a compromise one makes, because I like Global, but I think at least for now UTX is better (and ORBX still hasn't released any other LC). Maybe in the future I will get better versions of Vector/LC if they get released but can-t for now, and I will definitely not buy GEX at the price it costs to cover the world (and that's without mentioning that if you want P3D you have to pay twice...).

When Open LC NA comes out you can use that with UTX and uncheck the some of the landclass options in UTX and just use UTX primary for vector data like roads, rivers, beaches/coastlines, etc. That's what I do for Europe. I have UTX Europe, but uncheck most of the landclass items and Other Terrain Features and use Open LC NA for all the landclass stuff and it works well.

For now just try unchecking some of the stuff I mentioned in UTX US in the Other Terrain Features but leave the regular UTX landclass stuff turn on and it should look good and you won't lose much in terms of extra stuff.