JohnBoy56 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Hi I read with total disbelief the responses from the Orbx administrators team regarding justifiable criticism of their Landmarks London City pack for MSFS from angry customers (I am one of those angry customers), see [Answered] London City Scenery Pack FS2020 posted by GripperSim Tuesday 11:56 AM Really! "not for people to park close to them" and by the way if Microsoft and Asobo Studio's can place high quality graphics as standard without impacting performance I'm sure Orbx can. Totally condescending in my opinion and this coming from the Head of Technology, sorry Ben but it's people like us that keep you in a job! What was missing from your responses was "we understand and we got it wrong but don't worry we will sort it out" or basically "sorry" It will be interesting to see if this question makes it into your forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydor Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Why are the answers from Orbx so unbecoming and such flippant disregard to us your loyal customers who keep you in business? 2020 is a total new adventure for all of us including you Orbx. So a little humility would go a long way to keeping your loyal fan-base happy with maybe an apology for at the moment such low quality 2020 products from you. We can understand that new tools have to be learned to get the quality up to Asobo standard, but please do not try to be superior over us your customers as you are not helping yourselves. New companies are going to spring up and you need to keep us or you will find yourselves on the scrap heap of progress and out of work. So come on Orbx pull your socks up we need you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Hello, thanks for the copy and paste. I have done my best to answer you in your original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydor Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 16 minutes ago, Nick Cooper said: Hello, thanks for the copy and paste. I have done my best to answer you in your original post. Thank you for the reply. Ed Correia was very flippant in his answer with London Landmarks compliant, by stating "Best viewed from 1000 feet". Not a very helpful remark for someone who bought the scenery to be able to fly between the towers of London Bridge. Maybe it's the Ozy way but not for world wide consumption I am afraid. Orbx should have been apologizing from the first complaints coming in and recognized something was wrong. You are now seeing a new customer coming on board and to not be very helpful when the forum is stated by Orbx to be the only place to come too, for help for customer support, then some staff are going to have to change. I know for years that each topic was quickly closed/deleted if a Moderator did not accept criticism of Orbx, but I think that culture is going to have to change with the newer upcoming generation. 2020 is going to be a great changer of doing business, Asobo have raised the bar for all of us including Orbx, so the simple answer is change or die and no Orbx customer wants to see that. You are in a position to help that change in the company come about, best wishes to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Hello, thanks again. It is a very long time since anyone in these forums "deleted" a topic for the reasons that you state. To state that that state of affairs persists today and is in need of change is simply incorrect. In fact, you can read plenty of topics, going back years, where customers have very forcefully put their points of view and yet the topics are still there to read today. As I have already explained, remarks are open to misunderstanding, especially when there is no face to face communication. We support staff try hard to be as helpful as possible and will continue to do so, even in the face of assertions that we do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBoy56 Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 Hi Nick I'm not sure if you are referring to me (JohnBoy56) with the "thanks for the copy and paste" or the other gentleman "jaydor" I'm new to this forum but yet again another response which in my opinion does not directly address my question to you. I'm not "Marc BF" and you did not acknowledge my points. As for your support to your staff I get that, but not to respond directly to points raised about their responses is unprofessional, I would like Ed and Ben to respond as to why they found it acceptable to respond in the way they did to their loyal customers. Please understand the basic facts and respond appropriately, you (Orbx) replaced wonderful quality graphics with low quality graphics and packaged it up as a wonderful upgrade and in the process made a "quick buck" quite a few bucks I would wager! Have the common decency and state you got it wrong and treat us your customers with a bit of respect rather than.... Hello, on the internet, there is not the opportunity to appreciate the nuances of different cultural approaches to a problem, not to mention the complete absence of the non-verbal side to communication. I have been doing this job for a while now and although I try very hard to be as even-handed and consistent as possible, every now and then, someone is upset by a comment that was made without the intention to upset, but nevertheless caused it. From my perspective, I have seen no condescension at all from the developers or any Orbx staff, support or management. I have seen an immediate acceptance that there is a need for revision and a subsequent undertaking to provide it. I regret that you have read something else into the comments made by Orbx staff. I have closed a couple of topics with a full explanation of why I did so and I would suggest that the best course of action for us all is to wait for the product update. And by the way that was a copy and paste! Still awaiting a direct response to a fair question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Hello, thanks. My reply was to the copy and paste by jaydor, which I had already seen posted and replied to in the topic that I linked in my reply to him. It is ironically a perfect example of how something that could not have been misunderstood in a face to face discussion between the three of us, is so easily misinterpreted in an internet forum. I am support staff and as such, not entitled to speak on behalf of the company management. At present, it is around 0330 in Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PontiusPilot Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Not sure what everyone is whining about. The London City Pack looks fine to me. Sadly it reflects all the back biting on the MS forums too. We've never had it so good yet all some folk do is complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_fish Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I don't have the new London pack; I'm still taking baby steps with the default sim exploring control bindings, cameras and other settings, but I've had a look at the threads & video about the London pack. In my very humble opinion, the paint is barely dry on MSFS, and for anyone who has been following the Asobo story they seem very committed to working with the sim community to develop this product over many years. I find their approach very refreshing - the alpha process involved thousands of simmers (and pilots) feeding back ideas, bug reports, etc in a very constant flow of positive criticism. Sure there were some in the alpha who took a more negative approach, but the vast majority worked in a really constructive way to give us the product you now see on release. Not unlike Orbx, some would say... These forums have over the years also been very open to suggestion, and I don't know of any other forum where developers themselves are so active and helpful. They are an oasis of reasonableness, and equanimity compared to so many others. As I read it they have responded to the concerns, and will be producing updates. Seems very fair to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PontiusPilot Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I'm wondering if those complaining are running the simulator on 4K monitors? If so, they are simply idiots who don't understand the limitations of software/hardware at that resolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBoy56 Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 PontiusPilot you obviously don't get it do you. This is not whining this is about two things, one a company who charges to downgrade a fantastic quality product with a low quality replacement and the inability to respond to the points being raised to them. This in your opinion maybe a reflection of MS forum back biting but I would not know that as I do not actively get involved with forums, I has to sign up for this forum and the reason I asked the question was that I found the administrators response flippant and condescending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxUK Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 25 minutes ago, Nick Cooper said: Hello, thanks for the copy and paste. I have done my best to answer you in your original post. Quote Hello, thanks. My reply was to the copy and paste by jaydor, which I had already seen posted and replied to in the topic that I linked in my reply to him. .... snipped This confused me, because the topic where you just replied to me and other people in that thread, is linked, but the "thanks for the copy paste" had zero relevance, the user you later refer to isn't even present in the thread you linked... But was their really a need for sarcasm in the first place? Ok, not directed at me, but It sure is helping to form an opinion of "Orbx" which was the basis of my previous post as a new customer and new member here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PontiusPilot Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, JohnBoy56 said: PontiusPilot you obviously don't get it do you. This is not whining this is about two things, one a company who charges to downgrade a fantastic quality product with a low quality replacement and the inability to respond to the points being raised to them. This in your opinion maybe a reflection of MS forum back biting but I would not know that as I do not actively get involved with forums, I has to sign up for this forum and the reason I asked the question was that I found the administrators response flippant and condescending. I went and took a look for myself and it looked fine. Maybe there's something wrong with my eyes? Are you running the sim on a 4K monitor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBoy56 Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 Thanks PontiusPilot, it looks like I'm not an idiot because I'm not using a 4K monitor, it would be helpful if you would add a benefit to this topic rather than venting your pointless comments. Oh and by the way I am an IT Consultant so I do understand software/hardware limitations If you have nothing useful to add please refrain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxUK Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, PontiusPilot said: I went and took a look for myself and it looked fine. Maybe there's something wrong with my eyes? Are you running the sim on a 4K monitor? Monitor / resolution of said monitor has absolutely nothing to do with it, the issue has been acknowledged, simple as that. If there was nothing wrong, there would be nothing to acknowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PontiusPilot Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, JohnBoy56 said: Thanks PontiusPilot, it looks like I'm not an idiot because I'm not using a 4K monitor, it would be helpful if you would add a benefit to this topic rather than venting your pointless comments. Oh and by the way I am an IT Consultant so I do understand software/hardware limitations If you have nothing useful to add please refrain 1 minute ago, FxUK said: Monitor / resolution of said monitor has absolutely nothing to do with it, the issue has been acknowledged, simple as that. If there was nothing wrong, there would be nothing to acknowledge. I use 3D software so I know the difficulties faced with graphics cards and consumer expectations. So maybe it's just my eyes then as it all looked in good shape to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxUK Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I use 3D software too. However, I don't know what you are looking at or comparing with, nor does it matter because, just like me, you are not staff. I have however, looked at the content of my purchase and compared it to the vanilla content and can see a huge downgrade in quality. Orbx have acknowledged issues: So, if you have no problem and everything is fine, what is the purpose of this discussion going forward? I'm not a huge fan of beating a dead horse, so am just going to leave it now, but by the small sample of what I have seen going on around here, I don't think I will be returning much, if atall once the issue with my purchase is rectified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 52 minutes ago, FxUK said: But was their really a need for sarcasm in the first place? Ok, not directed at me, but It sure is helping to form an opinion of "Orbx" which was the basis of my previous post as a new customer and new member here. Apologies, I have many open topics here and picked the wrong link. I have corrected my error above and you have seen quoted the reply that is relevant to you. I am also sorry that your first experience of these forums was in the middle of a storm of criticism. They are not normally so full of adversarial posts and I hope that you can return later and see for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PontiusPilot Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, FxUK said: So, if you have no problem and everything is fine, what is the purpose of this discussion going forward? Because I'm tired of seeing all these grown men crying on the internet when I can't, myself, see the same problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxUK Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Hi Nick, Thanks again for responding, and that's fair enough, we are after all, all human (maybe). The rest of your post, does in fact, already go a long way towards changing the opinion I was begining to form, so yes, we shall see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxUK Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, PontiusPilot said: Because I'm tired of seeing all these grown men crying on the internet when I can't, myself, see the same problem. I have no intention in getting into any discussion with you, since it is completely pointless, in fact, seems more llike you are just here to troll. Raising valid concerns over a commercial product that you paid for is not necessarily "crying" and assuming it's only men why not just "people"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PontiusPilot Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 21 minutes ago, FxUK said: I have no intention in getting into any discussion with you, since it is completely pointless, in fact, seems more llike you are just here to troll. Raising valid concerns over a commercial product that you paid for is not necessarily "crying" and assuming it's only men why not just "people"? I'm absolutely not a troll but in my honest opinion only men cry about flight simulators but, yes, I could be more politically correct and pretend women do also. Now because I don't want to fall out I've just taken a quick flight along the Thames and taken a screen grab of the first landmark I came across. For sure the light isn't good but I see absolutely nothing wrong with this screen grab of me flying dangerously close to the O2. It fits perfectly in its surroundings. To be kind, if you'd like me to pick another landmark with different light settings then I'm happy to do so. But it looks absolutely fine, wouldn't you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBoy56 Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 Actually to end this sorry episode, Orbx have not said sorry for messing up, they are however going to rectify the issues because they have had a massive backlash (rightly so) but the damage has been done, hopefully they will learn from this and treat their customers with a bit more respect in the future, am I going to give them anymore of my money, not likely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBoy56 Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 Nick close this topic as you have not addressed my question in any way so thanks for nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Hello, your topic is 6 hours old. It is now 0500 in Australia. I stated that I personally cannot write on behalf of the management. They are at liberty to reply at a more reasonable hour. In the meantime, as requested, the topic is closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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