resolved Scenery Library Installations

[Fiddler]

Hi folks, I'm a newbie to Orbx and to custom libraries. I have lots of time on my hands since we're hunkered down here in Eugene OR waiting for something good to happen, meanwhile lot's of time to play with X-Plane 11. 

 

I purchased and (think I've) installed (using the Orbx tool) the Northern California and Oregon scenery packs.  I did this (stupidly) right before I left the country (yes Asia) for 6 weeks, and now I'm back and trying to piece together my situation.  I remember running out of disk space and then buying a 2 TB WD external drive, and either copying libs over, or re-installing or???  I've poked around the forum but not finding anything that deals with the multiple issues I think I have.  Anyway I've attached a PNG file which contains some Windows Explorer screen shots of my folder configurations on my C: and D: (external) drives, as well as the the scenery.packs.ini files located on those two different drives.  The .ini files are to the right of the drive it's located on.  I've also included a screen shot of the Orbx page showing my library location. I hope the PNG is adequate.  If anything else is needed please let me know.   

 

 I would appreciate someone (not another newbie) taking a look and telling me if things are setup correctly, because honestly I can't tell if it's working by just flying an aircraft in X-Plane 11.  I thank you in advance for your help.  

[Jon Clarke]

What exactly are the issues you have? The scenery packs.ini for your D drive looks OK as does the other one for C drive.

You will definitely know if you are flying over a TE Oregon or NorCal piece of scenery because it is photoreal and not default scenery.

I need to see a pic of a flight over a part of Oregon and NorCal. Take a pic in Spot view looking down towards the ground from about 3000ft and attach it to you reply post. 

To take a screenshot in XP  pause the flight via P key. Go to the top taskbar and click on File, scroll down and click on Take screenshot. Exit XP and then open the XP directory and open the Output folder. You will then see your screenshot. Attach it to your post as shown in the pic below:

 

[Fiddler]

Jon, thanks for your help.  Reading your reply and looking around at terrain I'm guessing this isn't photoreal.  I'm wondering if I need symbolic links to the external drive folders?  I so is it true that I will need a path reference in the original .ini pointing to the external folders?

 

Also I'm remembering now that I had some SSD capacity issues after loading Oregon, while trying to load NoCal.  When I look in the folders for NoCal I see zero bytes.  My guess is I will need to reinstall that.  But back to Oregon first - if I can get it working I have a chance with NoCal.  

 

Thanks again.  

[Fiddler]

I went ahead and re-installed NoCal from your website using your install process.  Now x-plane will not finish initializing if I start from either geographic area. It stalls during the '

reading new scenic files" phase. After several minutes Windows recognizes the unresponsive app. I've restarted several times with the same result.  Starting from any other geographic area it  works fine.Here are the updated screen shots .  I did create shortcuts for the Oregon Orbx folders and also created new .ini entries for these folders

 

[Jon Clarke]

@Fiddler The pic you show is default XP scenery.

I repeat that i need your scenery_packs.ini as an attachment please and I have indicated how this can be done in my previous post.

It appears that you are not installing the addon as governed by Orbx Central and are making your own entries in the scenery pack. The results is that the NorCal files are incorrectly placed. Orbx central would not have placed them where they currently sit.

[Fiddler]

Jon, I'm not sure what you mean by 'addon', but if you mean installing the NoCal scenery pack, today I used your website initiated Orbx Central app and did not touch any objects, locations, or .ini entries for anything related to NoCal.  I did add .ini entries for Oregon to correspond with what I saw the install process did for NoCal.  And I created shortcuts for Oregon to do that.  B

 

Please explain what is wrong with the NoCal entry positions.  BTW - this was a reinstall of the NoCal scenery. The first attempt back in January did not result in a properly installed or working scenery pack. 

 

I've attached the .ini files.   The first one is from the Orbx Custom Scenery folder on the D: drive.  The second is from X-Plane 11/Custom Scenery.  

 

 

scenery_packs.ini scenery_packs.ini

[Jon Clarke]

13 minutes ago, Fiddler said:

Jon, I'm not sure what you mean by 'addon', but if you mean installing the NoCal scenery pack, today I used your website initiated Orbx Central app and did not touch any objects, locations, or .ini entries for anything related to NoCal.  I did add .ini entries for Oregon to correspond with what I saw the install process did for NoCal.  And I created shortcuts for Oregon to do that.  B

 

Please explain what is wrong with the NoCal entry positions.  BTW - this was a reinstall of the NoCal scenery. The first attempt back in January did not result in a properly installed or working scenery pack. 

 

I've attached the .ini files.   The first one is from the Orbx Custom Scenery folder on the D: drive.  The second is from X-Plane 11/Custom Scenery.  

 

 

scenery_ini 1.28 kB · 0 downloads scenery_packs.ini 1.5 kB · 0 downloads

 I start with the ini for the XP/Custom Scenery which is 1.5KB. You have the following entries:

 

 

SCENERY_PACK D:\Orbx Library\Custom Scenery\Orbx_A_US_Oregon_TE_Custom/
SCENERY_PACK D:\Orbx Library\Custom Scenery\Orbx_B_US_Oregon_TE_Overlay/
SCENERY_PACK D:\Orbx Library\Custom Scenery\Orbx_C_US_Oregon_TE_Orthos/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/Aerosoft - EDDF Frankfurt/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/Aerosoft - EDLP Paderborn-Lippstadt/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/Aerosoft - EGLL Heathrow/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/Aerosoft - LFMN Nice Cote d Azur X/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/Aerosoft - LFPO Paris Orly/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/Aerosoft - LPFR Faro/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/Global Airports/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/KSEA Demo Area/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/LOWI Demo Area/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/X-Plane Landmarks - Chicago/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/X-Plane Landmarks - Dubai/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/X-Plane Landmarks - Las Vegas/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/X-Plane Landmarks - London/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/Orbx_A_US_NoCal_TE_Custom/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/Orbx_B_US_NoCal_TE_Overlay/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/Orbx_C_US_NoCal_TE_Orthos
/SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/Orbx_A_US_Oregon_TE_Custom/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/Orbx_B_US_Oregon_TE_Overlay/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/Orbx_C_US_Oregon_TE_Orthos/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/X-Plane Landmarks - New York/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/X-Plane Landmarks - Sydney/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/X-Plane Landmarks - Washington DC/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/Orbx_OrbxlibsXP/
 

Duplicate entries for Oregon and also incomplete. Note the forward slash /SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/Orbx_A_US_Oregon_TE_Custom/

 

So here is a corrected ini for the 1.5kB ini which I believe is the XP/Custom Scenery one:

scenery_packs.ini

 

This is the ONLY scenery_packs.ini that you need and it needs to go into your Custom Scenery folder in the XP Directory.

This ini already shows XP where the files are that you want to be included in the scenery package. It shows files that are in the XP/Custom Scenery folder and it shows the path to the files you have installed on the D drive. No further copies of an ini are required. The confusion arises because you have created a separate .ini for the D drive which is only a storage location not a directory.

So, put the attached scenery_packs.ini into the Custom Scenery folder of the XP installation directory

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fiddler]

Ok - I replaced the XP Custom Scenery ini with the one you provided and restarted X-Plane at SFO and am now seeing the orthos! Yes.  However, there must be a layer missing as objects are appearing 2 dimensional - no height - and no landmarks like the Golden Gate Bridge - or buildings at SFO.  Plus my frame rate went from 25 to 60.  So pretty sure it's not ingesting something it's supposed to.  But it's getting better!

[Fiddler]

Also curiously X-Plane is moving the NoCal ortho to the top of ini file.  It's done this several times meaning I've replaced it with the one you gave me several times.    Not sure that's causing any harm but.....maybe a clue?

[Jon Clarke]

What is your XP setting for World Objects at? It should be all the way to the right at Max.

[Fiddler]

Just  tested Oregon and it still stalls during the reading new scenery phase of initialization.  And yes World Objects maxed out. 

[Jon Clarke]

15 minutes ago, Fiddler said:

Also curiously X-Plane is moving the NoCal ortho to the top of ini file.  It's done this several times meaning I've replaced it with the one you gave me several times.    Not sure that's causing any harm but.....maybe a clue?

It is causing harm because it should not be. Check inside your Custom Scenery folder for any duplicate copies of the TE NoCal folders. If I think you still have duplicates in there because XP is reading them and putting them at the top like it is a new addition to the Custom Scenery file.

Make sure you keep a copy of the scenery pack ini I attached. Run XP again and attach the rogue ini file it creates then we can see if there are duplicate entries  

[Jon Clarke]

Oregon is on your D drive right? Your D drive is external and will be markedly slower than your C drive. Is it USB 3 connected? If the speed of D drive is slower than C drive then it will possibly take considerably longer to load Oregon HD. There's a lot of data to load. Could take well over 5 minutes or longer. 

[Fiddler]

Actually both NoCal and Oregon are on the D: USB3 drive.  I just noticed that the ini you provided had them on different drives which could explain some weirdness. 

[Fiddler]

The speed issue could be in play.  I noticed that when x-Plane was 'hung' Task Manager showed one core working like heck and high disk activity.  I assumed that meant it was in some sort of looping condition, but maybe Xplane was just waiting for the loading process to complete. 

[Jon Clarke]

2 minutes ago, Fiddler said:

Actually both NoCal and Oregon are on the D: USB3 drive.  I just noticed that the ini you provided had them on different drives which could explain some weirdness. 

I only changed the layering not the drives info. If you look at the scenery packs you attached initially you will see that the one I relayered  clearly shows NoCal as being on D drive. 

SCENERY_PACK D:\Orbx Library\Custom Scenery\Orbx_A_US_Oregon_TE_Custom/
SCENERY_PACK D:\Orbx Library\Custom Scenery\Orbx_B_US_Oregon_TE_Overlay/
SCENERY_PACK D:\Orbx Library\Custom Scenery\Orbx_C_US_Oregon_TE_Orthos/

I still want to see the scenery pack XP is now producing please.

 

[Jon Clarke]

7 minutes ago, Fiddler said:

The speed issue could be in play.  I noticed that when x-Plane was 'hung' Task Manager showed one core working like heck and high disk activity.  I assumed that meant it was in some sort of looping condition, but maybe Xplane was just waiting for the loading process to complete. 

Purely related to drive speed as to how long it will take to load. Some external drive users report upto 10 minutes on some loading of scenery.

[Fiddler]

Jon - it's 2 am here and I need to sleep.  I'll work on this tomorrow morning.  Right now it looks like NoCal is missing objects but has the orthos, and sometimes is hanging exiting or changing locations. Frame rate is high.  Oregon looks like it might be working correctly.  Frame rate is below normal, and there's stuttering.  Anyway I'll start this again tomorrow and get you some screen shots and we can go from there. 

Thanks.

[Fiddler]

Ok I lied....still awake.  I got everything to work correctly by messing around with the .ini to point to the D: drive, got rid of some shortcut stuff that shouldn't have been there etc etc.  Takes forever to load like you mentioned, and also there's quite a bit of stuttering, and frame rates are below 20 fps sometimes.  So performance is definitely an issue and looking at task manager the limiting factor is the external drive.  It's running at 100%, CPU is ok, as is memory and the C: drive.  I have an extra 512 GB Sata drive I can throw in there, but I many want to put something bigger in if I'm going to get additional scenery packs.  

 

Thanks for your help Jon.  I'm sure I'll be talking to you again. 

 

Brian

[Jon Clarke]

27 minutes ago, Fiddler said:

Ok I lied....still awake.  I got everything to work correctly by messing around with the .ini to point to the D: drive, got rid of some shortcut stuff that shouldn't have been there etc etc.  Takes forever to load like you mentioned, and also there's quite a bit of stuttering, and frame rates are below 20 fps sometimes.  So performance is definitely an issue and looking at task manager the limiting factor is the external drive.  It's running at 100%, CPU is ok, as is memory and the C: drive.  I have an extra 512 GB Sata drive I can throw in there, but I many want to put something bigger in if I'm going to get additional scenery packs.  

 

Thanks for your help Jon.  I'm sure I'll be talking to you again. 

 

Brian

Glad it's working OK now. In the nicest way possible i hope i won't be talking to you again, especially if it's this topic

FYI I use the SD versions of all the TE USA addons and they load much quicker and allow you better fps and higher xp graphics settings.

Much less disk space required also.Some thing for you to consider.

Now go get some sleep

[Fiddler]

Ok - woke up to nightmare Covid-19 news as usual.  Are we in a bad sci-fi movie?  I think I've seen this one and it doesn't end well.  Anyway, yes to not asking for help, especially on this topic.  I did check and found out the USB 3.0 external drive was plugged into a USB 2 port.  So moving that has helped with some of the stuttering, but loading is still painful.  Anyway I have lots of time on my hands so maybe I'll take apart my PC and figure out how to get a SATA drive in there. And download the SD versions and give that a shot.  Thanks again - the scenery is beautiful.  

[Fiddler]

Hi Jon, I deleted the previous library and uninstalled the HD NoCal and Oregon (not necessarily in that order), and then created a new library and installed the SD versions on my SATA3 C: drive.  Test flying it seems somewhat faster loading, but flying in either areas has problems with stuttering,, hanging etc - whether at Max World Objects or one below.  FPS varies from 25 to 2.  This happens even at night when there are few objects to display.  So this is actually worse performance than the HD.  The external drive which had the HD library on it is unplugged.  The size of the ortho folders looks right for SD.  The .ini file looks fine with entries pointing to the Custom Scenery folder in the X-Plane structure.   

 

I can fly in other areas just fine with not stuttering, hanging or low frame rates.  

 

This was installed de-installed etc using Orbx Central.   I created the new Orbx Library in the X-Plane folder structure.  Task manager showed two cores pretty much pegged, which I believe is normal, and the GPU not working that hard.  Memory was OK,  the C: drive was working at max data transfer rate quite a bit.  

 

Thanks for your help.   

[Fiddler]

Adding on to my latest post,  looking at Task manager performance, I see that there's quite a bit of network traffic going while X-Plane is running, more so it seems with the SD Scenery.  What is X-Plane/Orbx using the network for?

[Jon Clarke]

1 hour ago, Fiddler said:

Adding on to my latest post,  looking at Task manager performance, I see that there's quite a bit of network traffic going while X-Plane is running, more so it seems with the SD Scenery.  What is X-Plane/Orbx using the network for?

I don't know if Orbx is using the network when Orbx Central is not running i.e. exited via the taskbar. XP could be using the network.

@Ben McClintock does Orbx use the network when XP is running please?

 

Stuttering, hanging etc are to do with the PC hardware capabilities and drive speed, default plane or more demanding payware plane, plugins if any, and XP settings,.

[Nick Cooper]

Hello,

Orbx Central does nothing when it is closed.

Nor does the scenery phone home, the files are passive.

It seems that X Plane and Steam talk to one another locally,

unless of course the Steam version is not in use here and that

X Plane complains if there is no internet connection. 

[Fiddler]

On the stuttering, halting issue.  If it's hardware, payware, addons etc. that's causing the issue, why does it run fine with the HD version of Orbx, and with running the sim in any geographic location other than the Orbx library coverages?  It definitely has something to do with the new Orbx SD installation.  

 

I'm going to look into the network issue - I believe I looked at network utilization without x-plane running and it was almost non-existent, but had significant activity with x plane. This is not a Steam implementation.  

[Jon Clarke]

 Your quote:

I created the new Orbx Library in the X-Plane folder structure.

What does that mean? Have you created a new folder and located in the XP directory? Please explain. Thanks.

 

There is no reason for stuttering etc. The Overlay and Custom folders of the SD versions are exactly the same as in the HD versions. The only difference in the SD versions are that the Ortho imagery is at 2048 resolution versus 4096 resolution in the HD version as far as I am aware. So in reality the display of the imagery is less demanding than the HD version on your GPU. Stuttering is normally a sign of CPU struggling to keep up and would therefore be more prone in the World Objects setting in XP.

 

[Fiddler]

OK - sounds like I need to uninstall the Orbx products and continue with the regular libraries.  I have a pretty new system with great hardware specs so nothing to upgrade to make things better.  bye

[Vostflyer]

Something to remember regarding anti-virus software (e.g. Windows Defender). If you create a separate library somewhere, you will need to add that location to your list of 'excluded' folders for your AV (assuming you have already done this for your default XP11 folder / sub-folders). If you haven't added the exclusion yet, it could be your anti-virus software that is causing the stuttering.

[Fiddler]

Thanks Vostflyer.  It's not the virus checker.  It happens when the view starts including an area that's dense in objects, even at a distance.  For instance if I take off from SFO going south everything is fine until I turn enough towards the city of San Francisco that it starts loading objects for that, even though it's way in the distance.  When I'm flying in a rural area, I'm getting up to 30 fps.  When I'm flying in or near a metro area it can drop below 10 and freeze quite often.  I have to drop World Objects, increase modeling speed do a whole bunch of down sizing of the sim which kinda defeats the purpose of getting high quality scenery.  I have a pretty new system with good specs, so this is disappointing to be sure.  

[Jon Clarke]

7 minutes ago, Fiddler said:

Thanks Vostflyer.  It's not the virus checker.  It happens when the view starts including an area that's dense in objects, even at a distance.  For instance if I take off from SFO going south everything is fine until I turn enough towards the city of San Francisco that it starts loading objects for that, even though it's way in the distance.  When I'm flying in a rural area, I'm getting up to 30 fps.  When I'm flying in or near a metro area it can drop below 10 and freeze quite often.  I have to drop World Objects, increase modeling speed do a whole bunch of down sizing of the sim which kinda defeats the purpose of getting high quality scenery.  I have a pretty new system with good specs, so this is disappointing to be sure.  

What are your PC specs and your XP settings. Your stutters are due to either to too many programmes running in the background using CPU resources, XP and graphics settings too high. It is where the demand is greater than the available resources. It won't be anything to do with the scenery addon I assure you assuming the installation of the addon (see below for definition) is complete, correctly layered in the scenery pack etc.

 

Just for reference to terminology used for XP, a Library is  group of objects that are required by sceneries to add for example some buildings that are general to XP or a developers objects needs like OrbxLibs.  An Addon is exactly as it says, it is an added scenery like Orbx True Earth scenery or Orbx payware airports.Just so we con't get confused

[Fiddler]

Thanks Jon.  My issue originally was with the SD versions having more stuttering issues than the HD.  Didn't make sense.  I have a Ryzen 7 3800x 8 core CPU at 4.4 Ghz, 16 GB RAM, GeForce GTX 1070 with 8 GB memory, 500 GB HP SSD drive.  I have nothing running in the background but the usual Windows startup processes and the TrackIR software.  The system is dedicated to X-Plane 11.  The GPU does not appear to be working that hard and memory utilization there is not an issue.  I have one core (two threads) that vary between 90-100%.each.  I did install the SD versions on the internal SSD drive instead of the external SATA SSD since I have enough room there for that.  

 

XP - VE High, TQ High, AA FXAA, NWO - High, RD - Medium, Flight Models per Frame = 5 - SD NoCal scenery on the HP SSD internal - 15-20 FPS.  It's not shuttering or halting now.  X-Plane FPS seem to vary quite a bit without touching anything - same area, same scenery.  Whaaaa???   I've noticed this frequently in the 6 months I've used XP.  Not your problem....

 

Anyway clearly the HD version isn't going to help performance so I'll stick with the SD which is good.  I didn't spend enough time with the HD version to be able to compare the imagery quality.  

 

Brian

[Vostflyer]

Forgive me for butting in again, but is there a particular reason that you are running Flight Models per Frame = 5, rather than the default 2? I know that I need to bump it to 3 when flying the excellent freeware F-35A, but otherwise 2 works fine and my system is probably similar in performance to yours, albeit with an i7 6700k rather than the Ryzen. Having to process 5 models for each frame might be contributing to your apparent stutter.

 

Just a thought,

John

[Fiddler]

Thanks John -   I boosted the models per frame after reading the description that it might help with low FPS which I've been struggling with.  Maybe I was misinterpreting the 'help' pop-up for that control.  I've bumped it back down to 2.  So what I've learned over the last few days is that with the HD scenery, and actually any scenery, that with a three 27" monitor high-res setup through NVDIA surround I have to be aware of the size of the lateral field of view, especially in urban areas with high density and volume of objects.  By toning that down, I get quite a few FPS back.  Up in the mountains or in rural areas I have no problem running everything pretty well maxed out. 

 

And I'm currently hosting the scenery on an external USB SSD drive, which is pretty slow.  So anyway I'm learning where to compromise and not, what the tradeoffs are (and there are always tradeoffs) and now enjoying my experience in the mostly 20-25 FPS range.  And soon (when Amazon stops shipping toilet paper to everyone) I'll be moving my custom scenery onto a 2 TB internal m.2 SSD which should be about twice as fast as what I'm using.  Right now it take almost ten minutes (Yes Jon C you warned me about that!) to load either the Oregon HD or NoCal HD scenery and get flying. 

 

I have an elliptical nearby so while I'm loading  the system, I hop on that and try working off the donuts that I ate right before that.  I love it when a plan comes together.  

 

[Jon Clarke]

4 hours ago, Fiddler said:

Thanks John -   I boosted the models per frame after reading the description that it might help with low FPS which I've been struggling with.  Maybe I was misinterpreting the 'help' pop-up for that control.  I've bumped it back down to 2.  So what I've learned over the last few days is that with the HD scenery, and actually any scenery, that with a three 27" monitor high-res setup through NVDIA surround I have to be aware of the size of the lateral field of view, especially in urban areas with high density and volume of objects.  By toning that down, I get quite a few FPS back.  Up in the mountains or in rural areas I have no problem running everything pretty well maxed out. 

 

And I'm currently hosting the scenery on an external USB SSD drive, which is pretty slow.  So anyway I'm learning where to compromise and not, what the tradeoffs are (and there are always tradeoffs) and now enjoying my experience in the mostly 20-25 FPS range.  And soon (when Amazon stops shipping toilet paper to everyone) I'll be moving my custom scenery onto a 2 TB internal m.2 SSD which should be about twice as fast as what I'm using.  Right now it take almost ten minutes (Yes Jon C you warned me about that!) to load either the Oregon HD or NoCal HD scenery and get flying. 

 

I have an elliptical nearby so while I'm loading  the system, I hop on that and try working off the donuts that I ate right before that.  I love it when a plan comes together.  

 

I may have not noticed a piece of important info if you mentioned it before, but you are now revealing that you run off 3 monitors.

This may have also been contributing to your issues depending on your settings of course.

[Fiddler]

Jon and Vostflyer, apologies that I didn't mention the three monitors - of course in retrospect it has a large bearing on performance, but didn't think about it at the time.  So a bit of an update.  As you mentioned Jon, scenery load times can be painful when an external USB drive is used, even a USB 3.  My C: drive did not have enough space for large chunks or scenery so I didn't really have an options.  So....I installed a new 1 TB m.2 NVMe drive as my C: drive, moved my previous C: to D: and put my Orbx SD files on there.  Then I  reinstalled X-Plane on my new drive and copied my Orbx HD libraries to the C: drive, and also installed TrueEarth Washington HD on there as well.  Now I'm out of space again, and still own but can't install the UD HD scenery.  Oh well....more hardware is required I guess. 

 

Long story long, my load time went from 9 minutes to 2 minutes.  Nice.  Performance is a bit better after loading too - a few more FPS - varying between 15-22, with occasional dips down to 2-5 and halts and shutters when I approach a large city.  This is with High WO and everything else either medium or low./off.  Anyway it is what is is, not much I can do about it and the scenery is outstanding.  If I stick to rural areas it's much better and can even get up into the 3Os for FPS.  Thanks for your help guys.